New subject: [Veritas-bu] NDMP Restores

27 Jun 2001


      Grant,
Thanks for the information.  I'd like to comment on a few things.  First, 
let me say that I am a fan of NDMP, as it is giving us a valid solution for 
backing up all these NetApps I keep seeing everywhere. ;)  Before valid 
NDMP server and client software was in place, all we had was NFS.  I have a 
lot of respect for NetApp and the other backup and recovery options you 
have (Snapshots, SnapMirror, etc.), but I would like this one issue addressed.
At 11:45 AM 6/27/2001 -0700, Melvin, Grant wrote:
...
    NetApp's dump is no stranger to this, we have added support
    for qtree metadata, NT ACLs, Unicode, NT Streams. However, a
    standard BSD restore compatible application such as Solaris'
    ufsrestore can still restore the data, but will only restore
    NFS attributes. So should you have zero filers in 10 years
    (heaven forbid) and a pile of NDMP/dump tapes to restore from
    then as long as you have access to a dump compatible restore
    program you should be able to manually retrieve your data.

The key for the original poster to understand is the word _manually_.  This 
means that you can load the tape into a Solaris box  (or any box that can 
read BSD dump, such as HP, AIX, Linux), do some manual tape manipulation, 
and be able to restore the data (without the NT-specific info).  This is a 
far cry from being able to point and click your restores into existence.
...
    Legato's BudTool product proved that NetApp data could be
    restored on non-NetApp storage either in a disaster recovery
    scenario or because that is what the customer wants. We'd like
    to think that some if not all of the current 7 NDMP-compliant
    backup software applications that support NetApp could add the
    same capability.

Yes, they could, and I wish they would.  I wonder if some of us should just 
write a tool that does that?  Hmmm.. Gears churning....
I wonder if we could figure out a way to feed these tapes to AMANDA, and 
have AMANDA automate the restores.
Or just write our own utility...  Hmm....  Anyone interested in this project?
...
    Marion asks for a standard backup tape format that can be
    interchanged between NDMP-compliant vendors and we applaud
    her for it. However, that is beyond the current scope of the
    NDMP community or the SNIA Backup working group in general.

    We think its going to take an awful lot of persuading to get
    all the current backup software vendors to define a single
    format and then have all the possible system vendors support
    it. Most companies have chosen their solution based on
    trying to differentiate themselves from all the others and
    we see that continuing for some time.

Yes, it would take some doing to accomplish that.  However, we've got to 
start somewhere.  My biggest issue with NDMP is that it allows the OS 
vendor (in this case NetApp) to determine the backup format.  I understand 
that it would be a lot of work to get this accomplished, but I don't think 
it's outside the realm of possibility.
Trying to differentiate yourself in the backup world is a bad thing.  (I 
submit for your perusal IRIX's XFSDUMP.)  I'm glad to hear that NetApps 
tapes can at least be read by a dump-knowledgeable box.  But you're not the 
only vendor out there.
Yes, I know that it says right in the V5 spec that backup format is out of 
scope.  Yes, I know that getting a bunch of vendors to get together is not 
an easy thing. But I'll keep saying that this should be in scope until 
somebody listens:
OS-SPECIFIC BACKUP COMMANDS BAD
I do wish that Veritas would make their multiplexed backup format a little 
more open, and make a command that can easily read a NetBackup multiplexed 
tape if NetBackup is dead, but at least their backup format is the same on 
every box.  The idea of going back to the days when I had Solaris, HP, 
and  Ultrix dump tapes, and 3B2 cpio tapes, and VAX backup tapes gives me 
chills.  And, given the upcoming prominence of the NAS industry, we may 
have just that.  (Assuming you're in a shop that has more than one NAS 
vendor.)  That would stink.
Anybody that agree with me, feel free to send a "me too" message.
---
W. Curtis Preston
Principal Consultant for Storage Designs, your storage experts
Webmaster: http://www.backupcentral.com Phone: 760 653 1007

Re: [Veritas-bu] NDMP Restores