Yes, we do sell NetApp products, along with those from many other vendors. I tried to be up front about that, but perhaps not sufficiently so. I apologize if my earlier post rubbed anyone the wrong way, since this is a forum for engineering discussions.
As a sales rep, there may be some differences in where I perceive value compared to IT admins and engineers, although I imagine there's a lot of overlap. The issues I posed to Mr. Gray (reliability, performance, features, breadth of offerings, investment protection and support) merit elaboration.
reliability - When we first started selling filers three years ago, NetApp promoted availability of over 99.99% for a stand-alone filer head and even better for clusters, based on auto-support statistics. That's actual user data from 85% of their installed customer base, and it includes planned downtime. I just recently saw an updated graph, and this still holds true. NetApp will tell you it's because of the simplicity of their code relative to other general purpose OSes, their h/w design, QA, etc. Regardless of why, the proof is in the statistic. Nobody else can touch this.
performance - The competition is getting better, but so is NetApp. I just checked the SPEC SFS97_R1 results page (http://www.spec.org/osg/sfs97r1/results/sfs97r1.html). Still thin, but there are at least a few more results posted now. I can't speak to all of the posted results, but I can tell you the NetApp systems tested are real-world configs. By contrast check out the HP rp4700 -- if memory serves me, it is configured with 180+ RAID sets, each with its own file system. The Procom system posts impressive numbers here.
features - Essentially every vendor now has snapshot-equivalent capability (I know NetApp's approach is unique, and the distinctions _may_ be significant, but from a sales perspective it's essential to recognize that everybody can do this). However, adding capabilities similar to SnapRestore and SnapMirror, if available from a competitor, can sometimes be kludgey (sp?). Procom's SAM (Safe Asynchronous Mirroring) appears to deliver the same functionality and implementation as SnapMirror, although I don't see where they have anything to compete with SnapRestore. SnapManager for Exchange is without competition in the NAS market space.
breadth of offerings - NetApp is a leader in the data management market: high-end data center clusters down to low-end remote office/department filers; SnapRestore, SnapMirror, SnapManager; SecureAdmin; NetCache; integrated products to manage data from the data center to the edge of the network in a distributed global infrastructure (CD, CR, DFM). Third-party offererings are a strength, too. It stands to reason that when Veritas releases their next version of NetBackup (for instance), they will certify NDMP interoperability with NetApp (and the 25,000+ installed filer customer base) well before they test Procom. Competitors will point to the lack of a FC SAN strategy or application servers. I won't argue those issues here except to assert it is not a hole in NetApp's offerings, merely reflective of their different focus and strategy.
investment protection - You can swap out filer heads from an alpha-based F700-series to an Intel-based F800 and have your same disks serving the same data to the network with minimal downtime. Since you mentioned Sun, I'll pick on them a little bit. Sun has pursued (and killed) several NAS strategies over the last several years, and expecting a similar level of consistent component interoperability and user-friendly migration path for upgrades would seem optimistic. This new ServPoint strategy is somewhat different, because it's simply a Sun Enterprise line Solaris server running Veritas NAS s/w. Not exactly an appliance. Regardless, your investment protection in this case hinges on a third party relationship, which is inherently higher risk even though Sun and Veritas have a longstanding history of working together.
support - Customers on the Toasters discussion list can attest better than I. NetApp's support is top rate. Hopefully, my customers have few occurrances to test this out. :-)
In my original list, I failed to mention ease of administration. Ostensibly, this should be an advantage for any NAS "appliance," but there are still some differentiators. For instance, NetApp is the only vendor that utilizes RAID-4, making dynamic RAID set expansion possible. Other vendors who utilize RAID-5 (including Procom and almost everybody else) must either concatenate onto existing storage (forfeiting increased spindle density and other desirables) or require you to rebuild the RAID set.
There are certainly other significant issues, but I have gone on far too long for now. I hope you find this helpful. I would reiterate, if you want to compare competing offerings, do what you can to get demo boxes. Shy of that, ask for references you can call.
(BTW, thanks for the support Barry!)
Joe
Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc.
Email: joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606
Please visit us at www.data-line.com
-----Original Message----- From: grey jolly To: Joe Luchtenberg; 'Peter D. Gray'; toasters@mathworks.com Sent: 1/21/2002 8:47 AM Subject: RE: Netapp alternatives
Hi Joe:
Isn't Data-Line a reseller of NetApp? You don't mention that you might be biased toward NetApp in your note. Does your company also sell other Data Storage solutions? What are their strengths? GJ
--- Joe Luchtenberg joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com wrote:
Peter,
If, as a current NetApp user, you have grown accustomed to their standard of reliability, performance, features, breadth of offerings, investment protection and support, I believe you will find more than just reputation lacking in most competitors' offerings. (Of course YMMV; I am certainly familiar with NetApp owners who have been less than satisfied, too.) I state this as one who can sell you not only NetApp filers but also competing storage solutions from Sun and Procom, as well as Compaq, EMC, and others. Obviously your requirements are unique and there are solid solutions from myriad competitors that may satisfy your needs, but if you're just looking to save a few $, then I would suggest considering stepping down to an F810 or even F87 before ruling out NetApp on price (I may be reading too much into your post here).
Explore your options. If you can, try to get a few demo boxes in from competing vendors and try them out in your environment. I imagine NetApp would welcome the opportunity to reinforce their dominance in the NAS market by going head-to-head. I'd feel confident with them in there, were I the reseller competing for your business.
Very general reply to a very general question.
Joe
Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc.
Email: joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606
Please visit us at www.data-line.com
-----Original Message----- From: Peter D. Gray [mailto:pdg@uow.edu.au] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:49 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: Netapp alternatives
Has anybody on this list experience with procom filers or the veritas "servpoint" software.
We are in the process of upgrading our NAS and procom and SUN (with veritas servpoint) are options along with staying with netapp.
The veritas product looks interesting (see the veritas web site if you want details) but is
pretty new.
The procom filers are a lot cheaper but do not
have
the reputation of netapp. The latest spec results though seem to indicate that the procom filers offer pretty good performance.
Regards, pdg
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Joe Luchtenberg