Did they prove that or just claim it. I can claim my car goes 150 mph and gets 60 miles per gallon. That doesn't make it true and doesn't make me credible just because I claimed it and refute when someone else says that
it
doesn't.
This mindset is beginning to worry me a little. I expect a certain amount of sales banter and exaggeration. I can live with some promotion of one companies product and trashing of another by a company sales rep (although the degree to which direct comparisons are made through advertising surprises me - e.g. this liquid plumber is better than that one because we've done tests so don't buy that product as it's crap). But to sit down with a technical person from one organisation and ask specific technical questions on their company's product and apparently get lied to from not asking the exact specific question/misinformed is going a little beyond the pale. Are we heading towards the situation where a buyer needs to get products in on eval from rival companies each time because they cannot trust the technical claims of the vendors? Couldn't our time be better used rather than each company going over the same ground at every technology jump or new product?
To take the example above, if someone claimed that their car did 150mph and 60mpg, but then told me when I asked them directly that was only on a downhill slope of 45 degrees on a specific road in the middle of Germany and they actually get about 110mph on a flat road and 25-30 mpg during Interstate driving, I can deal with that. From what I've experienced, it seems to be akin to asking if a car is petrol, being told it is and then finding out I have to fill it with diesel to get it to work.
This may well be because I'm a stranger in a strange land (an Irishman in Houston) but is this normal business practise here? I'd be interested in how everyone else sees this.
Regards
Martin Enterprise Storage/Enterprise Server Group mailto:martin.hughes@halliburton.com cellphone: +1 713 303 9214 office: +1 281 871 4124
-----Original Message----- From: Ferd Berfl [mailto:ferd_berfl@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:30 PM To: Martin Hughes; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740
Did they prove that or just claim it. I can claim my car goes 150 mph and gets 60 miles per gallon. That doesn't make it true and doesn't make me credible just because I claimed it and refute when someone else says that it doesn't.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com [mailto:owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com]On Behalf Of Martin Hughes Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:45 AM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740
Your description of how the IP4700's Snapshot copy-on-write
mechanism works
is right on. The original data is copied to a new location and the new
data
is written to the original block. Yes this compromises performance. Yes you have to allocate physical disk space to accomplish this. No
you cannot
shrink the amount of disk space you have allocated for this
process if you
find that it is too much.
Hmm, not according to a demo we had from EMC week before last. I grilled them pretty hard on that and they claimed that they updated the inode file only and did not copy blocks to another location.
Well, we have an eval unit coming in next week and I'll do some testing.
Regards
Martin Enterprise Storage/Enterprise Server Group mailto:martin.hughes@halliburton.com cellphone: +1 713 303 9214 office: +1 281 871 4124
_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Martin,
We, Texas Instruments, Inc., have asked EMC on several occasions for an evaluation unit so that we could perform side-by-side comparison tests. EMC has refused my request each time stating that if they did not have a commit to purchase the evaluation unit they would not provide one. I, for one, will not commit to purchasing hardware that is in doubt. I can get evals from Sun, HP, Compaq, NetApp, Auspex, IBM, etc. etc.etc. So where does this leave EMC. Well, not in my data centre yet.
BTW, very well written message but I am not sure that those in the USofA know what petrol is. Translation, gasoline.
Sincerely,
Glen D. Geen
Martin Hughes wrote:
Did they prove that or just claim it. I can claim my car goes 150 mph and gets 60 miles per gallon. That doesn't make it true and doesn't make me credible just because I claimed it and refute when someone else says that
it
doesn't.
This mindset is beginning to worry me a little. I expect a certain amount of sales banter and exaggeration. I can live with some promotion of one companies product and trashing of another by a company sales rep (although the degree to which direct comparisons are made through advertising surprises me - e.g. this liquid plumber is better than that one because we've done tests so don't buy that product as it's crap). But to sit down with a technical person from one organisation and ask specific technical questions on their company's product and apparently get lied to from not asking the exact specific question/misinformed is going a little beyond the pale. Are we heading towards the situation where a buyer needs to get products in on eval from rival companies each time because they cannot trust the technical claims of the vendors? Couldn't our time be better used rather than each company going over the same ground at every technology jump or new product?
To take the example above, if someone claimed that their car did 150mph and 60mpg, but then told me when I asked them directly that was only on a downhill slope of 45 degrees on a specific road in the middle of Germany and they actually get about 110mph on a flat road and 25-30 mpg during Interstate driving, I can deal with that. From what I've experienced, it seems to be akin to asking if a car is petrol, being told it is and then finding out I have to fill it with diesel to get it to work.
This may well be because I'm a stranger in a strange land (an Irishman in Houston) but is this normal business practise here? I'd be interested in how everyone else sees this.
Regards
Martin Enterprise Storage/Enterprise Server Group mailto:martin.hughes@halliburton.com cellphone: +1 713 303 9214 office: +1 281 871 4124
-----Original Message----- From: Ferd Berfl [mailto:ferd_berfl@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:30 PM To: Martin Hughes; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740
Did they prove that or just claim it. I can claim my car goes 150 mph and gets 60 miles per gallon. That doesn't make it true and doesn't make me credible just because I claimed it and refute when someone else says that it doesn't.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com [mailto:owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com]On Behalf Of Martin Hughes Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:45 AM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740
Your description of how the IP4700's Snapshot copy-on-write
mechanism works
is right on. The original data is copied to a new location and the new
data
is written to the original block. Yes this compromises performance. Yes you have to allocate physical disk space to accomplish this. No
you cannot
shrink the amount of disk space you have allocated for this
process if you
find that it is too much.
Hmm, not according to a demo we had from EMC week before last. I grilled them pretty hard on that and they claimed that they updated the inode file only and did not copy blocks to another location.
Well, we have an eval unit coming in next week and I'll do some testing.
Regards
Martin Enterprise Storage/Enterprise Server Group mailto:martin.hughes@halliburton.com cellphone: +1 713 303 9214 office: +1 281 871 4124
Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Martin Hughes wrote:
This may well be because I'm a stranger in a strange land (an Irishman in Houston) but is this normal business practise here? I'd be interested in how everyone else sees this.
I think it's liable to happen everywhere. The onus is on the customer not to accept that kind of approach. I've seen reps (netapp resellers in fact) shown the door half way through a meeting for trying to sell boxes by trashing competitors' boxes rather than on their own merits. Do that often enough and the sales droids will start to cop on.
-Ronan
-
Martin Hughes -
Mr. G. D. Geen -
Ronan Mullally