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sup
by Naomi 04 Feb '06

04 Feb '06

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by leslina＠server.tenamax.net 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

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RE: Replacing our NetApp
by Carter K. George 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

Yes, but all of the NAS vendors have some sort of block storage (or SAN) on the back end. NetApps uses Fibre Channel arbitrated loop "SAN's" for the block access that their file system needs to access storage. So I don't ever think of this whole SAN versus NAS thing as relevant. You always have both file and block access needs. In the simplest case, NAS is the front end and SAN is the back end (and may be effectively hidden, as with NetApps), but there's no case where there's not some sort of block access going on behind a NAS. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:57 AM To: Kevin H. Schoener; Michael Bergman; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Replacing our NetApp To clarify this a bit further (it was a favored question of the interview teams at NetApp): It's all about how the data is moved more than it is where it lives. SAN is BLOCK LEVEL data transfer. NAS is FILE LEVEL transfer. In other words, SAN - iSCSI and FCP - both transfer data via blocks of information. NAS - NFS and CIFS - both transfer data via a file with a handle of some sort. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Kevin H. Schoener Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:01 AM To: 'Michael Bergman'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Replacing our NetApp Michael - here's my 2¢. iSCSI and FCP are specifically SAN technologies and NFS is specifically not. The difference is not the fabric or packeting so much as it is where the file system lives. NFS is NAS, so the file system is owned and controlled by the NAS device. In an iSCSI or FCP SAN, the file system is owned and controlled by the Server(s) to which the SAN is attached... Another way to think of it is that SAN technologies utilize device-type commands, whereas NAS technologies simply say "give me data or take the data" and it's up to the NAS device to decide where to put it... I believe the point is that the NFS deployment on a NetApp filer takes FULL advantage of Data OnTap features and performance. ..okay, maybe I went longer than 2¢ worth... sorry Kevin H. Schoener Lynx Technologies Inc. KHSchoener(a)LynxTechnologies.NET http://www.LynxTechnologies.NET/ 1576 Sweet Home Rd Suite 230C Amherst, NY 14228 716.636.5470 866.316.8599 fax 716.998.6065 cell -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bergman Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:15 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Replacing our NetApp >What's wrong with SAN? iSCSI is most certainly SAN and has proven >itself very well in the marketplace as well as being technically very Fair point -- there's absolutely nothing wrong with SAN (= Storage Area Network, remember). I could argue, and keep that argument going, that if iSCSI is "SAN" (which I can agree that it can be) then so is NFS. Depending on how you build the infrastructure for the NFS server(s) and client(s). But anyway, just to make things a bit clearer then on my part, stay away from non-encapsulated FC. iSCSI over Ethernet is fine :-) No one will care about FC anymore when iSCSI over 10 GbE is a commodity. It wont take *that* long before it is. Cheers, /M > >>Is there any reason you kept talking about SANs? SAN has its place, >>especially if you need high end performance. But for a lot of >>applications NAS works just fine. > >I agree. >Use NFS. Configure it well. >Build a "storage network" if you like, put in dedicated GbE switch(ws) >(10 GbE?) with the Oracle server(s) and the NAS Filer(s) in it, make >sure everything is Jumbo frames of course, tweak if for optimum >performance as best possible, make sure traffic flows the way it should >a.s.o. >No client traffic on that net. > >Use ONTAP 7.x (aggregates) and have enough spindles. Go for the smaller >drives probably, not the 144G's, but the 72's > >Most likely this will be Good Enough(TM) so you can stay away from >complicated bug-ridden SAN setups that always are a nightmare to change >config-wise. Especially if you need to change the config quite often in >some way (= more than once a year...) > >Just my 0.10 SEK worth > >/M

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RE: Visio diagrams...
by Wayne Jervis 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

This may be of use as well; will compliment the Netapp stencils. http://www.visiocafe.com/vsdfx.htm regards, Wayne. _____ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Ken Nishikawa Sent: 02 February 2006 17:13 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Visio diagrams... Hey there Does anyone know where I can get some Visio stencils that represent the various NetApp boxes? I want to diagram our NAS/SAN setup in our colo. Also, does anyone know where I can get some good Visio stencils that represent logical volumes and such? Thanks KEN

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03 Feb '06

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Notification de l'état de remise
by Service de distribution du courrier 03 Feb '06

03 Feb '06

Ce rapport fait référence à un message envoyé avec les champs d'en-tête suivants : Message-id: <0IU200G9GJX74IN1(a)sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:59:45 -0800 From: toasters(a)mathworks.com To: classic-mustangs(a)lists.vntg-mustang.com Subject: Delivery failed Le message a été placé en file d'attente et reste indisponible pendant 8 heures pour les destinataires suivants : Adresse du destinataire : classic-mustangs(a)lists.vntg-mustang.com Raison : unable to deliver this message after 8 hours Delivery attempt history for your mail: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:41:04 +0100 (CET) Failed MX lookup; try again later Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:28:22 +0100 (CET) Failed MX lookup; try again later Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:21:27 +0100 (CET) Failed MX lookup; try again later Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:53:33 +0100 (CET) Failed MX lookup; try again later Le système de messagerie essaiera de remettre le message pendant encore 40 heures. UmVwb3J0aW5nLU1UQTogZG5zO3NwNjA0MDA0bXQuZ3BtLm5ldWYubGQgKHRjcC1k YWVtb24pCgpPcmlnaW5hbC1yZWNpcGllbnQ6IHJmYzgyMjtjbGFzc2ljLW11c3Rh bmdzQGxpc3RzLnZudGctbXVzdGFuZy5jb20KRmluYWwtcmVjaXBpZW50OiByZmM4 MjI7Y2xhc3NpYy1tdXN0YW5nc0BsaXN0cy52bnRnLW11c3RhbmcuY29tCkFjdGlv bjogZGVsYXllZApTdGF0dXM6IDQuNC43ICh1bmFibGUgdG8gZGVsaXZlciB0aGlz IG1lc3NhZ2UgYWZ0ZXIgOCBob3VycykKCg== Return-path: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Received: from tcp-daemon.sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld by sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) id <0IU300AY56VQBX10(a)sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld>; Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:02:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from mathworks.com ([84.100.40.45]) by sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IU200G9FJX74IN1(a)sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld> for classic-mustangs(a)lists.vntg-mustang.com; Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:46:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:59:45 -0800 From: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Delivery failed To: classic-mustangs(a)lists.vntg-mustang.com Message-id: <0IU200G9GJX74IN1(a)sp604004mt.gpm.neuf.ld> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QImGvK876qp7JhNvxO/hEQ)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_QImGvK876qp7JhNvxO/hEQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT --Boundary_(ID_QImGvK876qp7JhNvxO/hEQ) Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="classic-mustangs(a)lists.vntg-mustang.com.zip" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-disposition: attachment; filename="classic-mustangs(a)lists.vntg-mustang.com.zip" UEsDBAoAAAAAAHYXQzQNDayPwHAAAMBwAADzAAAAY2xhc3NpYy1tdXN0YW5nc0BsaXN0cy52bnRn LW11c3RhbmcuY29tLmh0bSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg

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RE: Replacing our NetApp
by Hill, Aaron 02 Feb '06

02 Feb '06

I always like hearing others preaching the "latest release" mantra. Tells me there are lots of people doing my production testing for me. Thankyou, this has mitigated much of my risk and helped NetApp get a 7G release to GD. 7.0.1R1 was a latest release at one stage and I remember most of our NetApp representatives telling us we should migrate to 7G. NoSireeBob! 6.5.6 has been reasonably solid and it gives us all the features we need right now thankyou very much. Now, if you told me that SpinOS was fully integrated in 7G, the case would be somewhat more compelling. Alas, I must grow old waiting for 8G or later :( Now that 7.0.3 is GD (Jan 24th), we will start reviewing the bugs outstanding and assess the risk to our environment. A quick search of the outstanding NOW site shows me 20 pages of bugs (400+) in 7.0.3 that are Severity 1, 2 or 3. If I conservatively consider only 5% of these to be a potential match to my environment, it is still 20 bugs too many that could impact my SLA's. On second thoughts, I will probably stay on 6.5.6 a little longer. Feel free to tell me I am being paranoid .... I am, and it is proving to be lucrative. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: Friday, 3 February 2006 2:35 AM To: Glenn Dekhayser; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Replacing our NetApp Always go with the latest available release :) We've also had problems with our filers (I think 6 bugs in the 6 weeks I've been here)... however, we're running 7.0.0.1 which was pretty abysmal as far as reliability. 7.0.4 should be the new Safe Harbor release when it comes out - it will do much for stability. As for the quota bug(s), I think there is still one that exists in 7.0.4, but will probably be addressed with a P release. Personally, I'd feel comfortable with upgrading to 7.0.4 for our enterprise, but also looking at 7.1 when it gets cooked a bit more - some good enhancements for Exchange in that release. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:42 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Replacing our NetApp John: You're behind on your OS rev. Most of the bad bugs are out of OnTap7. I've got tons of clients on it working happily- and we're doing lots of the 'tough' stuff, like qtree and volume snapMirror, snapvault, quotas, iSCSI, FCP, NFS and CIFS, all on the same box and aggregates. Clean as a whistle. I agree that 7.0.1R1 was scratchy- I believe there was a netapp tech bulletin telling people to get off that rev. -Glenn Dekhayser Voyant Strategies, Inc. >The one that makes the most sense for my needs. After my problems >with OnTap 7.0.1R1 and quotas and qtrees earlier this week, I'm a bit >leary of NetApp right now. OnTap 7G is still shaking out major >bugs... ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ***************************************************************

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RE: Visio diagrams...
by Maglinger, Paul 02 Feb '06

02 Feb '06

That, and more... http://www.mvps.org/visio/3rdparty.htm ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Ken Nishikawa Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:13 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Visio diagrams... Hey there Does anyone know where I can get some Visio stencils that represent the various NetApp boxes? I want to diagram our NAS/SAN setup in our colo. Also, does anyone know where I can get some good Visio stencils that represent logical volumes and such? Thanks KEN

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RE: Visio diagrams...
by Holland, William L 02 Feb '06

02 Feb '06

<http://now.netapp.com/eservice/toolchest?toolid=295> http://now.netapp.com/eservice/toolchest?toolid=295 to download the Visio 2000 templates. _____ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:knishikawa@keepmedia.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:36 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Visio diagrams... Hey there Does anyone know where I can get some Visio stencils that represent the various NetApp boxes? I want to diagram our NAS/SAN setup in our colo. Also, does anyone know where I can get some good Visio stencils that represent logical volumes and such? Thanks KEN

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Re: Visio diagrams...
by Glenn Marsh 02 Feb '06

02 Feb '06

See http://now.netapp.com/NOW/download/tools/visio/ Also check out http://www.visiocafe.com/ for others ************************************************************************ Glenn Marsh Lattice Semiconductor Corporation Unix Systems Administrator 5555 NE Moore Court CAD Engineering Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 glenn.marsh(a)latticesemi.com 503-268-8000 503-268-8136 phone - 503-268-8459 fax ************************************************************************

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toasters