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RE: IBM Branded NetApps
by Julio Calderon 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

I've been in the same spot having to deal with a vendorA when vendorA hd to get support from VendorB and I could never get quick and advance help from anyone! Not a fun place to be when you need help. Good luck -----Original Message----- From: Zayas, Russell [mailto:rzayas@qualcomm.com] Sent: Tue Nov 14 16:19:46 2006 To: Toasters; Raj Patel; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: IBM Branded NetApps Does that mean that support is geared to handle tough issues? Or do they pipe you into NetApp support at that point? Curious, -Russ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Toasters Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:41 PM To: Raj Patel; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: IBM Branded NetApps We just went with a few IBM boxes here. We have 40 or so Netapp boxes. The determining factor for us was the price. They undercut by well over 100k on what we bought. The support structure is not the same as Netapp. If you have never experienced IBM support before then I suggest you do before you decided to go the way of IBM/NAS. If your like us and don't need the "what is a snapmirror" type of support and just call when you need parts or the box is panicing then you may want to consider them. E- ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Raj Patel Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:03 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: IBM Branded NetApps Hi all, A few quick queries - Has anyone had any experience with the IBM Branded NetApp's ? What does the N5200 compare with in the NetApp family ? How does service/support differ from NetApp ? Finally why would anyone go with IBM for a NetApp rather than NetApp direct (is it purely a question of vendor service quality or is there a significant price difference) ? Thanks in advance, Raj.

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RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions
by Davies,Matt 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

Usally less than 1 second, at least a couple of times during the snapmirror job It is a Volume snapmirror Ontap 7.1 -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Walker [mailto:ggwalker@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 November 2006 13:32 To: Davies,Matt; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Hmm - I honestly have never noticed that problem on any of our equipment... How long does the spike last? What version of ONTAP? VSM or QSM? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:58 AM To: Glenn Walker; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Glenn, The snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit. Which should equate to just under 8Mb/s Overall the rate does average out for the snapmirror jobs to be below 1000KB/s There was only one snapmirror running at the time of the test I carried out to confirm the rates. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Walker [mailto:ggwalker@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 November 2006 12:47 To: Davies,Matt; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions I assume that the snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit? This is in KB (kilobyte), not kb(kilobit). Are you sure that there aren't multiple mirrors running simultaneously? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Davies,Matt Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:40 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Hi, We have noticed that when a snapmirror runs between our filers with a maximum transfer rate of 1000 KB/s, we are seeing peaks of traffic of around 24Mb/s. This has been confirmed using ethereal, that it is the snapmirror traffic. We have noticed that these peaks are causing excessive amount of dropped packets on the wan interface of the routers between all the site. we have tried a number of difference queuing strategies and bandwidth shaping, but the router cannot buffer all the packets during the peaks and starts dropping them. As we also use these links for both voice and video, we are seeing high jitter rates during these peaks, and need to do something about it. We have a mixture of FAS250's and FAS270's all are showing the same problem Has anyone else experienced this ? Or does anyone have any ideas. Cheers Matt

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RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions
by Glenn Walker 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

Hmm - I honestly have never noticed that problem on any of our equipment... How long does the spike last? What version of ONTAP? VSM or QSM? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: Davies,Matt [mailto:MDAVIES@generalatlantic.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:58 AM To: Glenn Walker; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Glenn, The snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit. Which should equate to just under 8Mb/s Overall the rate does average out for the snapmirror jobs to be below 1000KB/s There was only one snapmirror running at the time of the test I carried out to confirm the rates. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Walker [mailto:ggwalker@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 November 2006 12:47 To: Davies,Matt; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions I assume that the snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit? This is in KB (kilobyte), not kb(kilobit). Are you sure that there aren't multiple mirrors running simultaneously? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Davies,Matt Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:40 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Hi, We have noticed that when a snapmirror runs between our filers with a maximum transfer rate of 1000 KB/s, we are seeing peaks of traffic of around 24Mb/s. This has been confirmed using ethereal, that it is the snapmirror traffic. We have noticed that these peaks are causing excessive amount of dropped packets on the wan interface of the routers between all the site. we have tried a number of difference queuing strategies and bandwidth shaping, but the router cannot buffer all the packets during the peaks and starts dropping them. As we also use these links for both voice and video, we are seeing high jitter rates during these peaks, and need to do something about it. We have a mixture of FAS250's and FAS270's all are showing the same problem Has anyone else experienced this ? Or does anyone have any ideas. Cheers Matt

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RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions
by Davies,Matt 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

Glenn, The snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit. Which should equate to just under 8Mb/s Overall the rate does average out for the snapmirror jobs to be below 1000KB/s There was only one snapmirror running at the time of the test I carried out to confirm the rates. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Walker [mailto:ggwalker@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 November 2006 12:47 To: Davies,Matt; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions I assume that the snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit? This is in KB (kilobyte), not kb(kilobit). Are you sure that there aren't multiple mirrors running simultaneously? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Davies,Matt Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:40 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Hi, We have noticed that when a snapmirror runs between our filers with a maximum transfer rate of 1000 KB/s, we are seeing peaks of traffic of around 24Mb/s. This has been confirmed using ethereal, that it is the snapmirror traffic. We have noticed that these peaks are causing excessive amount of dropped packets on the wan interface of the routers between all the site. we have tried a number of difference queuing strategies and bandwidth shaping, but the router cannot buffer all the packets during the peaks and starts dropping them. As we also use these links for both voice and video, we are seeing high jitter rates during these peaks, and need to do something about it. We have a mixture of FAS250's and FAS270's all are showing the same problem Has anyone else experienced this ? Or does anyone have any ideas. Cheers Matt

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RE: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions
by Glenn Walker 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

I assume that the snapmirror.conf file is showing 1000 as the limit? This is in KB (kilobyte), not kb(kilobit). Are you sure that there aren't multiple mirrors running simultaneously? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Davies,Matt Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:40 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions Hi, We have noticed that when a snapmirror runs between our filers with a maximum transfer rate of 1000 KB/s, we are seeing peaks of traffic of around 24Mb/s. This has been confirmed using ethereal, that it is the snapmirror traffic. We have noticed that these peaks are causing excessive amount of dropped packets on the wan interface of the routers between all the site. we have tried a number of difference queuing strategies and bandwidth shaping, but the router cannot buffer all the packets during the peaks and starts dropping them. As we also use these links for both voice and video, we are seeing high jitter rates during these peaks, and need to do something about it. We have a mixture of FAS250's and FAS270's all are showing the same problem Has anyone else experienced this ? Or does anyone have any ideas. Cheers Matt

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SnapMirror Bandwidth restrictions
by Davies,Matt 14 Nov '06

14 Nov '06

Hi, We have noticed that when a snapmirror runs between our filers with a maximum transfer rate of 1000 KB/s, we are seeing peaks of traffic of around 24Mb/s. This has been confirmed using ethereal, that it is the snapmirror traffic. We have noticed that these peaks are causing excessive amount of dropped packets on the wan interface of the routers between all the site. we have tried a number of difference queuing strategies and bandwidth shaping, but the router cannot buffer all the packets during the peaks and starts dropping them. As we also use these links for both voice and video, we are seeing high jitter rates during these peaks, and need to do something about it. We have a mixture of FAS250's and FAS270's all are showing the same problem Has anyone else experienced this ? Or does anyone have any ideas. Cheers Matt

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RE: Macintosh users can't see network drive
by Glenn Walker 13 Nov '06

13 Nov '06

You might want to capture a quick packet trace on either the MAC or NetApp side (tcpdump on mac, I believe and 'pktt start all -d <directory>' on the Filer - be sure to perform 'pktt stop all' when done with the test). MAC has a notoriously horrible CIFS client - I assume you're using OSX? Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Maglinger, Paul Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:31 PM To: NetApps list server Subject: FW: Macintosh users can't see network drive Running Version 6.4.5 on a 740 filer. For some reason this morning our Macintosh users cannot see the "public" CIFS drive on our NetApps filer. Because this is a "public" drive, it should be open all of our users. Everything worked fine until this morning and now they cannot see the filer in their Server folder. We've connected to a Windows server using smb://ip_address/shared_directory, but when we try to connect to the filer in the same manner we never get a logon prompt. No pretending here, I don't know diddily-squat about Mac computers. Can someone give advice on how to even start troubleshooting this? ________________________________ Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CCA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com ________________________________

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FW: Macintosh users can't see network drive
by Maglinger, Paul 13 Nov '06

13 Nov '06

Running Version 6.4.5 on a 740 filer. For some reason this morning our Macintosh users cannot see the "public" CIFS drive on our NetApps filer. Because this is a "public" drive, it should be open all of our users. Everything worked fine until this morning and now they cannot see the filer in their Server folder. We've connected to a Windows server using smb://ip_address/shared_directory, but when we try to connect to the filer in the same manner we never get a logon prompt. No pretending here, I don't know diddily-squat about Mac computers. Can someone give advice on how to even start troubleshooting this? ________________________________ Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CCA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com ________________________________

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ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers
by Paul Letta 13 Nov '06

13 Nov '06

I am getting ready to do a big data migration. I am planning on doing an initial level 0, and then multiple level 1's leading up to the big day. I know the that native ndmpcopy in OnTap 7.1 can only do one level 1, and one level 2 for each level 0. But I have read that if you get ndmpcopy or jnmdpcopy from ndmp.org that it supports multiple level 1 dumps based on the same level 0. But I am getting the same errors I got with the native ndmpcopy when I use ndmpcopy and jndmpcopy from a unix host. I just grabbed the latest copies for ndmp.org yesterday. > java jndmpcopy.JNdmpcopy -version java version "1.4.2" gcj (GCC) 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-3) So I did a level 0, and then one level 1 that both worked just fine. Then I re-ran the level 1 with the same command, and get the errors below. This is the same error I get if I try this with the native ndmpcopy command on the filer itself. I am moving about 1TB of data (about 16M files) off of 1 traditional volume onto multiple new flex vols on the same filer. If what I'm doing is flat out wrong, what would others suggest ? tar wouldn't give me the incrementals and rsync would take a long time with this number of files. Suggestions ? Thanks, Paul > java jndmpcopy.JNdmpcopy filer:/vol/vol0/source filer:/vol/destination -sa xxxxxxx -da xxxxxxx -level 1 Nov 09 03:53:25 [ndmpd:0]: Now waiting for source and destination to finish. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:25 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: creating "/vol/vol0/../snapshot_for_backup.153" snapshot. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:26 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Using subtree dump SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Date of this level 1 dump: Thu Nov 9 15:53:25 2006. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: Thu Nov 9 15:48:10 2006. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Dumping /vol/vol0/source to NDMP connection SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: mapping (Pass I)[regular files] SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:43 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: mapping (Pass II)[directories] SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:09 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: estimated 18 KB. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:09 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: Thu Nov 9 15:54:13 2006: Begin incremental restore DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: This incremental dump does not follow the previous dump that you have restored. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: This dump is based on Thu Nov 9 15:48:10 2006. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: It should be based on Thu Nov 9 15:50:28 2006. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: Could not use tape. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: RESTORE IS ABORTED Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: DstFiler just halted. Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: Reason: ndmp_data_halted_internal_error : Dump aborted. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:17 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Network communication error SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:17 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: DUMP IS ABORTED SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:18 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Deleting "/vol/vol0/../snapshot_for_backup.153" snapshot. Nov 09 03:54:19 [ndmpd:0]: SrcFiler just halted. Nov 09 03:54:19 [ndmpd:0]: Reason: ndmp_data_halted_internal_error : Dump aborted. Nov 09 03:54:19 [ndmpd:0]: jndmpcopy finished -- Paul Letta Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility Computer Center Unix System Administrator EMail: letta(a)jlab.org Phone: (757)269-5106

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Re: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers
by Jerry 12 Nov '06

12 Nov '06

Never underestimate the power of rsync. Here is what I did to move about 70mil files (lots of tiny files). With lots of tiny files, NDMCOPY spends a lot of time before it really transmits anything. In some cases of 10+ mil files on a busy filer I was waiting 4+ hours for files to begin copying (actual data, not just writing out sparse files for inodes). I found that if I ran a level 0 ndmpcopy on the weekend or during your off hours you can let it beat up the filer a little bit (and it will beat up both CPU and Disk util). Then, during the week run rsync's with --delete to keep things nicely in sync. This is something ndmpcopy can't do (I think).... if you do a level 0 + level 1 you won't get deletes. Doing the "catchup rsync's" gives you a good judge of timing on how long it will take you when you schedule your real outage. I recommend using rsync 2.6.6 or higher as it has significant memory efficiency compared to older versions. I used a 4 CPU Sun V440 to move a lot of data with rsync. Running a single process with a 16 million file list consumes as much as 8GB ram. I almost never found myself CPU bound and I found that CPU on the filer was much lighter than if I was doing an ndmpcopy. All of this depends on your rate of change for files, but overall I think rsync was faster for me after that initial copy. Since rsync wasn't using all my CPU, I broke it into an rsync for each top level directory, as many as 70 rsync processes in some of my migrations at the same time. This allowed me to sync up 16 million files in < 20 minutes in some cases. I suspect the level 1 ndmpcopy would be slower than that, but I'm not 100% sure. At the time of cutover, change the export to be read-only to block people from making change. This doesn't work if you have a subdirectory that is hitting a different export line. In this case I would do a second rsync and see what files were still changing and hunt down apps writing to that volume still. I'd be curious to know which method you end up going with and how it wo Original Message ---- From: Darren Dunham <ddunham(a)taos.com> To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:37:19 PM Subject: Re: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers > > I am getting ready to do a big data migration. I am planning on doing > > an initial level 0, and then multiple level 1's leading up to the big day. > > > > It doesn't make sense to me why you would do multiple level 1 copies > because a level 1 does not copy files that have changed since the > previous level 1. To do this you must use a level 2 copy. I agree with the spirt, but I would rephrase it. :-) A level 1 *does* copy all the files that have changed since the previous level 1. It's just that they are a subset of files modified since the level 0 which are copied as well. So running a level 1 on the last day should take about the same amount of time whether any other level 1 copies had been run previously or not. Agreed on the rest about 0/1/2 ndmpcopy, but for flexibility I do like rsync as an alternative. It's just how much power you can toss at it and how long you can wait for the file list when you've got millions of files. Remember you don't have to move everything in one rsync command. Espcially if you have multiple clients, it may may sense to split it up into a few separate subtrees. -- Darren Dunham ddunham(a)taos.com Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/ Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index

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