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RE: No spare disks for root
by Alan McLachlan 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

Hi Mike, Agreed - but this can be avoided with judicious use of quota management - hence my comment"Any other issues are about configuration and administration and are easy to deal with if you know what you're doing." Having all CIFS shares and/or NFS exports coming from withing quota'd qtrees is something I would tend to do and recommend anyway, along with SNMP traps for warning thresholds etc., but admittedly it only takes someone to slack off and start putting data outside those qtrees and then you do run the risk of a full rootvol. Hence why a small FlexVol dedicated to root is the way to go if you're able to run newer versions of OnTap. Unfortunately in the situation under discussion it's an old F760 with a pre-7 version of version of OnTAP and no support contract therefore no way to (legally) upgrade the OS. Regards, Alan. _____________________________________________ From: "Sphar, Mike" [mailto:Mike_Sphar@bmc.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 September 2007 2:51 AM To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Subject: RE: No spare disks for root I certainly had many many years of filers sharing data on the root volume as well, but I would point out that one danger with that is sometimes running out of space on the root volume can do Bad Things(tm). I agree though that if I had an already production system serving data sharing the root volume I wouldn't go into panic mode over it, but if I had the freedom to start over and do it "right", I probably would. Though still, if I was starting over I'd prefer to upgrade to a version of the OS that supports flexvols, and then use a small root flexvol. -- Michael W. Sphar - IS&T - Lead Systems Administrator SMBU Engineering Support Services, BMC Software -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Alan McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:52 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: No spare disks for root Hi Coolhand, Why do you feel that having the small amount of root info in the /etc directory in the same volume as your data is a problem? Having all the disks on the root volume isn't really a problem. I installed many filers in the days before NetApp started recommending people dedicate two disks for the root volume, and never had any issues with using the root vol for data. In fact most of my customers for five years or so when I worked as an SE for a NetApp reseller user vol0 for data such as user homedirs and workgroup directories and no-one even really thought about it. A second volume is needed only where you want to change volume level options ("minra", "noatimeupdate" etc), or have a separate volume for database tablespace files or iSCSI/FCP LUN's. Qtree quotas can deal with most space restriction requirements. Also you will want multiple volumes if you're doing bare-metal backups ("snapmirror to tape") or DR replication for application data volumes with differing RTO's/RPO's. The only real advantage to be gained by dedicating disks for the root volume in earlier versions (before Ontap 7 with FlexVols with it's obvious additional benefits) is that the disks for a dedicated non-root data volume can be moved as a set to another filer and that data volume is then available on the second filer as a foreign volume without having to do extra steps after boot. Any other issues are about configuration and administration and are easy to deal with if you know what you're doing. The obvious major disadvantage to dedicating two disks for the root volume is the vast waste of storage space* at least in Ontap 7 with FlexVol you can have a dedicated root vol for administrative separation purposes without wasting space, although you now if you move physical disk sets all volumes in the same aggregate are visible on the filer you move the disks to. The administrative issues you mentioned are easily fixed. Just rerun CIFS setup and reconfigure to give yourself access. Or if you don't want to change an existing domain configuration you can modify the security information in /etc via the "rdfile" and "wrfile" commands with cut-and-paste, i.e. add the SID for the windows user to the "Administrators" group in lclgroups.cfg and/or add a mapping for the Windows user to "root" in usermap.cfg. Another thing to check is the security style on the volume and the permissions on the /etc directory. One handy thing to do is make the /etc directory a qtree: Filer> qtree create etcnew Copy the contents of /etc to /etcnew Rename /etc to /etcold (from Windows) Rename /etcnew to /etc Then you can delete the /etcold directory or keep it there for a backup. The advantage of doing this is it allows you to separate out /etc for quota management purposes. Also, for a CIFS-only filer in a large domain environment where you want to restrict access to /etc to only specific filer admins you can set the security style on /etc to "unix" then create mappings to "root" in usermap.cfg for specific Windows admin accounts while locking the rest of the "domain admins" out of /etc. You can edit the UNIX permissions on the new /etc qtree using the free SecureShare Access". I've done this on a couple of CIFS-only sites where they had lots of domain admins but wanted only specifically trained filer admins to have access to /etc and it works a treat. Hope this helps. If you need any more information send me an email to my personal address, AlanMac"at"technologist.com ^ (to avoid spambots when this post goes to the toasters archive web page) Regards, Alan McLachlan Technical Consultant EBM-2 Project Queensland Health Ph. +61 7 31311618 Mobile +61 428 655644 _____________________________________________ From: coolhand2120 [mailto:tony@claydesign.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 September 2007 9:34 AM To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Subject: No spare disks for root I have a netapp F760 with 4 FC shelves, because I'm ignorant of how these things work I added all my disks (28x72gb) to my root volume. Now I have no spare disks, and no room in any shelf to add disks. What do I do? I don't care about the information on the filer, I just want a root volume with 2 disks! I promise not to use all the disks on a single root volume again! I have a /etc directory on a NFS host. I don't have NFS license though so I can't copy files onto the filer via NFS, I have a CIFS license but for some reasons it says "access denied" when a CIFS client tries to access it. I have console access and telnet access, I'm so frustrated I took the filer home so I have physical access. I don't however have a support contract with netapp or an account on their site (pending their review of my application). I can't create any new volumes because all the disks are assigned to the root volume vol0. Is there anyway to fix this? -Coolhand2120 -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/No-spare-disks-for-root-tf4380728.html#a12487751 Sent from the Network Appliance - Toasters mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ***************************************************************** This email, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost, if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this email is strictly prohibited. The information contained in this email, including any attachment sent with it, may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this email in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone collect on Australia +61 1800 198 175 or by return email. You should also delete this email, and any copies, from your computer system network and destroy any hard copies produced. If not an intended recipient of this email, you must not copy, distribute or take any action(s) that relies on it; any form of disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this email is also prohibited. Although Queensland Health takes all reasonable steps to ensure this email does not contain malicious software, Queensland Health does not accept responsibility for the consequences if any person's computer inadvertently suffers any disruption to services, loss of information, harm or is infected with a virus, other malicious computer programme or code that may occur as a consequence of receiving this email. Unless stated otherwise, this email represents only the views of the sender and not the views of the Queensland Government. ****************************************************************

3 2

time stamp question
by Linux Admin 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

I have linux clients that have the following issue with time stamp I touch a file on netapp volume there isn't any hh:mm; but if I touch a local file there is a timestamp. NetApp Release 7.1.1: Any ideas?> Thanks!!!

2 1

Bootp when you don't have boot floppies
by Tony 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

Somehow I screwed up my F760 so it wouldn't boot to the "CTRL+C" maintenance menu. I think I overwrote the boot images on the filers /etc/boot directory with some bad files, then it wouldn't boot anymore. Everyone I talked to said "use the floppies to boot". But I didn't have any floppies and no support contract with NetApp (may they win against Sun). So had a problem where I had the Data ONTAP images but no floppy disks. I had the 10mb boot file "netapp_6.5.7-alpha" in the /etc/boot directory of the ONTAP image but no way to get the filer to boot to it. I tried desperately for 4 days to find the image online or via my circle of geeky friends to no avail. So I delved into the firmware prompt (the OK> prompt), I think it's the firmware, correct me if I'm wrong. And found that I could boot from a bootp DHCP server by using the "boot net" command, for anyone who doesn't know you can get into this prompt by hitting CTRL+C right before it says 'finding image....' For those who are suffering from the 'Can't open boot device' error that's the only CTRL+C menu you're going to get to. Also all of this work is done via the console. I quickly setup a bootp server on my win2k3 box long with solarwinds TFTP server. Added the entries 'boot server host name:myservershostname' and 'bootfile name:netapp_6.5.7-alpha', configured the address pool I setup to allow both DHCP and BOOTP clients, then went into advanced on the DHCP's servers properties, exposed the bootp table, added my image file and path locally on the server as well as my TFPT address (same as the DHCP's address) and the damn thing booted right up! I could even watch the progress as it downloaded the file from the TFPT server. I used the CTRL+C menu (the proper one this time) to initialize all disk and off I'm going! Now I know all you veteran toaster admins are going "Well duh!". But you must understand that I have no education on NetApp's firmware or the Data ONTAP OS, and this is the first filer I've ever seen. This is pure experimentation on my part. There are others who have the same exact problem, and this IS a solution. You don't NEED floppies even if you totally destroy the software on the filer. Hope this helps someone who has the same issue as I did. -Tony

3 2

VLAN Query
by Raj Patel 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

Hi, We have a SAN vlan (46) and a Data vlan (45) – on a single Cisco switch. To do inter-site data replication I need to make the trunk'd SAN connections aware of the VLAN's. Reading the NetApp docs I've done the following – kdcsan2> ifconfig multitrunk1 down kdcsan2> vlan create multitrunk1 45 46 kdcsan2> ifconfig multitrunk1-45 10.1.45.8 netmask 255.255.255.0 kdcsan2> ifconfig multitrunk1-46 10.1.46.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 kdcsan2> ifconfig multitrunk1-45 up kdcsan2> ifconfig multitrunk1-46 up But I haven't been able to to ping the box via either IP address. The switch ports are configured for the 46 vlan so at the very least I should be able to ping the switch gateway. The multitrunk1 consists of two nics in a fas270 going into two Cisco switch ports. Any clues as to what I'm doing wrong ? Do I need to define multiple gateways ? Thanks in advance, Raj.

3 4

ACL not working
by Lohit 09 Sep '07

09 Sep '07

Hello All, I have a NFS exported qtree. The problem is, I am not able to set ACL on this directory. Details below. qtree name is "cfd-trg"(security=unix) exported with root=hostA. On hostA (this is a Solaris9 box), when i try setfacl, i get the following error. I have also tried with different hosts (CentOS etc) with nfs4 options etc, nothing worked. But i am able to set ACLs on local filesystems on all of the machines. trg749/: failed to set acl entries setacl error: Operation not applicable I have FAS940 with the following ONTAP release. NetApp Release 7.0.1.1: Thu Sep 22 01:47:46 PDT 2005 Sorry if i am missing any obvious thing. -- With warm regards Lohit

5 7

NSO-153 storage networking exam
by kunle windapo 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

hi guys, has anyone taken the new nso-153 storage networking exam? i need to know if the questions are similar to what we have in nso-121, nso-131 and nso-151 exams. thank you. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&…

1 0

No spare disks for root
by coolhand2120 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

I have a netapp F760 with 4 FC shelves, because I'm ignorant of how these things work I added all my disks (28x72gb) to my root volume. Now I have no spare disks, and no room in any shelf to add disks. What do I do? I don't care about the information on the filer, I just want a root volume with 2 disks! I promise not to use all the disks on a single root volume again! I have a /etc directory on a NFS host. I don't have NFS license though so I can't copy files onto the filer via NFS, I have a CIFS license but for some reasons it says "access denied" when a CIFS client tries to access it. I have console access and telnet access, I'm so frustrated I took the filer home so I have physical access. I don't however have a support contract with netapp or an account on their site (pending their review of my application). I can't create any new volumes because all the disks are assigned to the root volume vol0. Is there anyway to fix this? -Coolhand2120 -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/No-spare-disks-for-root-tf4380728.html#a12487751 Sent from the Network Appliance - Toasters mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

3 3

RE: No spare disks for root
by Alan McLachlan 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

Hi Coolhand, Why do you feel that having the small amount of root info in the /etc directory in the same volume as your data is a problem? Having all the disks on the root volume isn't really a problem. I installed many filers in the days before NetApp started recommending people dedicate two disks for the root volume, and never had any issues with using the root vol for data. In fact most of my customers for five years or so when I worked as an SE for a NetApp reseller user vol0 for data such as user homedirs and workgroup directories and no-one even really thought about it. A second volume is needed only where you want to change volume level options ("minra", "noatimeupdate" etc), or have a separate volume for database tablespace files or iSCSI/FCP LUN's. Qtree quotas can deal with most space restriction requirements. Also you will want multiple volumes if you're doing bare-metal backups ("snapmirror to tape") or DR replication for application data volumes with differing RTO's/RPO's. The only real advantage to be gained by dedicating disks for the root volume in earlier versions (before Ontap 7 with FlexVols with it's obvious additional benefits) is that the disks for a dedicated non-root data volume can be moved as a set to another filer and that data volume is then available on the second filer as a foreign volume without having to do extra steps after boot. Any other issues are about configuration and administration and are easy to deal with if you know what you're doing. The obvious major disadvantage to dedicating two disks for the root volume is the vast waste of storage space* at least in Ontap 7 with FlexVol you can have a dedicated root vol for administrative separation purposes without wasting space, although you now if you move physical disk sets all volumes in the same aggregate are visible on the filer you move the disks to. The administrative issues you mentioned are easily fixed. Just rerun CIFS setup and reconfigure to give yourself access. Or if you don't want to change an existing domain configuration you can modify the security information in /etc via the "rdfile" and "wrfile" commands with cut-and-paste, i.e. add the SID for the windows user to the "Administrators" group in lclgroups.cfg and/or add a mapping for the Windows user to "root" in usermap.cfg. Another thing to check is the security style on the volume and the permissions on the /etc directory. One handy thing to do is make the /etc directory a qtree: Filer> qtree create etcnew Copy the contents of /etc to /etcnew Rename /etc to /etcold (from Windows) Rename /etcnew to /etc Then you can delete the /etcold directory or keep it there for a backup. The advantage of doing this is it allows you to separate out /etc for quota management purposes. Also, for a CIFS-only filer in a large domain environment where you want to restrict access to /etc to only specific filer admins you can set the security style on /etc to "unix" then create mappings to "root" in usermap.cfg for specific Windows admin accounts while locking the rest of the "domain admins" out of /etc. You can edit the UNIX permissions on the new /etc qtree using the free SecureShare Access". I've done this on a couple of CIFS-only sites where they had lots of domain admins but wanted only specifically trained filer admins to have access to /etc and it works a treat. Hope this helps. If you need any more information send me an email to my personal address, AlanMac"at"technologist.com ^ (to avoid spambots when this post goes to the toasters archive web page) Regards, Alan McLachlan Technical Consultant EBM-2 Project Queensland Health Ph. +61 7 31311618 Mobile +61 428 655644 _____________________________________________ From: coolhand2120 [mailto:tony@claydesign.com] Sent: Wednesday, 5 September 2007 9:34 AM To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Subject: No spare disks for root I have a netapp F760 with 4 FC shelves, because I'm ignorant of how these things work I added all my disks (28x72gb) to my root volume. Now I have no spare disks, and no room in any shelf to add disks. What do I do? I don't care about the information on the filer, I just want a root volume with 2 disks! I promise not to use all the disks on a single root volume again! I have a /etc directory on a NFS host. I don't have NFS license though so I can't copy files onto the filer via NFS, I have a CIFS license but for some reasons it says "access denied" when a CIFS client tries to access it. I have console access and telnet access, I'm so frustrated I took the filer home so I have physical access. I don't however have a support contract with netapp or an account on their site (pending their review of my application). I can't create any new volumes because all the disks are assigned to the root volume vol0. Is there anyway to fix this? -Coolhand2120 -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/No-spare-disks-for-root-tf4380728.html#a12487751 Sent from the Network Appliance - Toasters mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ***************************************************************** This email, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost, if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this email is strictly prohibited. The information contained in this email, including any attachment sent with it, may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this email in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone collect on Australia +61 1800 198 175 or by return email. You should also delete this email, and any copies, from your computer system network and destroy any hard copies produced. If not an intended recipient of this email, you must not copy, distribute or take any action(s) that relies on it; any form of disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this email is also prohibited. Although Queensland Health takes all reasonable steps to ensure this email does not contain malicious software, Queensland Health does not accept responsibility for the consequences if any person's computer inadvertently suffers any disruption to services, loss of information, harm or is infected with a virus, other malicious computer programme or code that may occur as a consequence of receiving this email. Unless stated otherwise, this email represents only the views of the sender and not the views of the Queensland Government. ****************************************************************

2 1

Re: No spare disks for root.
by Alan McLachlan 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

Sorry about that last post being so full of typos - it was rushed as I'm at work and didn't want to waste much time on it. Adam is obviously correct that you'll need to restart from scratch now if you need to reconfigure your volume layout, which will require a backup and restore if there's any real data there. Just carefully consider whether you really need a second or third volume from the perspective of your data profile, not just because of the general recommendation for a separate root volume. Not only will you lose most of one disk's worth of space, you're wasting another drive for parity. As long as you have your backup and restore procedures nailed down so you don't risk overwriting your active /etc directory on a full volume restore it's really not worth it. You can always keep a copy of your /etc config files on other media for quick recovery just in case anyway. regards, Alan McLachlan Technical Consultant EBM-2 Project Queensland Health Ph. +61 7 31311618 Mobile 0428 655644 ***************************************************************** This email, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost, if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this email is strictly prohibited. The information contained in this email, including any attachment sent with it, may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this email in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone collect on Australia +61 1800 198 175 or by return email. You should also delete this email, and any copies, from your computer system network and destroy any hard copies produced. If not an intended recipient of this email, you must not copy, distribute or take any action(s) that relies on it; any form of disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this email is also prohibited. Although Queensland Health takes all reasonable steps to ensure this email does not contain malicious software, Queensland Health does not accept responsibility for the consequences if any person's computer inadvertently suffers any disruption to services, loss of information, harm or is infected with a virus, other malicious computer programme or code that may occur as a consequence of receiving this email. Unless stated otherwise, this email represents only the views of the sender and not the views of the Queensland Government. ****************************************************************

1 0

CIFS & Cluster Failover
by Carl Howell 31 Aug '07

31 Aug '07

If I'm running CIFS on node 1 of a cluster, and I failover node 2 to node 1, will it disrupt the CIFS connections on node 1? Thanks, --Carl

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