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by yingchih＠mitac.com.tw 08 Oct '98

08 Oct '98

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Re: NetApp and Solaris: setfacl and getfacl
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 07 Oct '98

07 Oct '98

On 10/06/98 17:19:32 you wrote: >I know that Net App filers and Auspexes are more reliable than Sun's >however in practice the difference is minimal. I also know that they >are faster but in practice it isn't so noticeable. We do everything we >can to avoid NFS e.g. cachefs, and most of our users seem to be of the >save and forget variety so we don't really need the performance either. It just goes to show that there are a lot of different environments out there. :) You don't specify exactly what sort of environment you have, but it sounds like it's very low key. You obviously aren't concerned with heavy Internet traffic, multiuser loads, email delivery, database or CAD simulations, etc. Sure, I could see where if you just need a server to store user files, primarily documents and a small amount of email and the like, an ordinary Sun or NT server would be just fine. And since your space needs aren't as great either (generally) in such environments, you probably view disk storage very differently. >Price will probably dictate most which way we go in future and CIFS is >a big incentive but on alternate wednesdays I still favour Sun's. I'm surprised you mentioned price, since the impression I'm getting is that you wouldn't be adverse to paying more for a standard, good ol' Sun that you all know and love. But my previous guess as to your environment may be way off, so what do I know? :) >| In an odd way, since UNIX has generally done without ACLs for so long, >| most places that I know of who could use them don't, since it's not >| really necessary and it's not going to be interoperate well in a >| heterogeneous environment. So I don't know of many customers who would >| decide that they were going to rollout widespread ACL use and switch >| all of their servers over to Sun to accomodate this. > >I would definitely use ACL's if I could but 90% of our file storage is >on machines that don't support them. I also like to use better security, >same story. I'm curious what exactly you would use them for - just intellectual curiosity, mind you, not the argumentative kind. Is security a problem currently? Will ACLs solve a particular problem with sharing files among users you're currently running into? Or do you plan to use it as a basis of a new file-sharing architecture? Do you anticipate any difficulty in getting users to use ACLs, and use them correctly? I haven't seen many UNIX environments heavily use ACLs, so I'm curious as to what people are envisioning. I'm familiar with how they are commonly used on the NT side, but the needs there are different. Bruce

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by gordon＠nabaus.com.au 06 Oct '98

06 Oct '98

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Re: NetApp and Solaris: setfacl and getfacl
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 06 Oct '98

06 Oct '98

On 10/05/98 10:44:36 you wrote: > >+----- On Fri, 02 Oct 1998 20:07:01 CDT, writes: >| The last time the subject of ACLs came up, I sent >| out a message that said the following: >| >| I'd like to see them support all the different ACL types, Solaris, NT, >| Digital Unix, Irix, etc. (at least, I think the latter two have them) >| and have them all interoperate reasonably well. But that's no doubt a >| big undertaking for Netapp with very little return. >| >| It might make more sense is to wait on a standard ACL protocol (maybe >| as part of NFS v4) and then implement that and everyone will talk the >| same language. > >The ACL's are handled with a separate protocol which is IMHO the best >way to handle them. One only needs to look at the SMB^H^H^HCIFS >protocol to see the wisdom of doing it this way. The protocol is even >rudimentally described in /usr/include/rpcsvc/nfs_acl.x. > >| I hve reasons to believe the above statement is still an accurate >| reflection of NTAP's plans. Of course, ACLs for NT were necessary, >| and given the nature of the next NFS standard it may become important >| for them to implement Solaris ACLs as well. It will be interesting >| to see if they can make NT and NFS ACLs interoperate - if anyone can, >| I'm confident it will be Netapp. :) > >In the mean time it's a plus for Sun and a minus for Network Appliance. >After many years of working with Auspex servers I have come to the >conclusion that if you want NFS then Sun is your safest bet, if not >always fastest or best performance. Well, I suppose if you want access to "new" features, such as NFS v3 or ACLs, you're right - Sun tends to have them first before other vendors. However, most places I'm familiar with would rather have better performance and reliability and so on, and if that means not having NFS ACLs, so be it. In an odd way, since UNIX has generally done without ACLs for so long, most places that I know of who could use them don't, since it's not really necessary and it's not going to be interoperate well in a heterogeneous environment. So I don't know of many customers who would decide that they were going to rollout widespread ACL use and switch all of their servers over to Sun to accomodate this. Bruce

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Re: NetApp and Solaris: setfacl and getfacl
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 05 Oct '98

05 Oct '98

The last time the subject of ACLs came up, I sent out a message that said the following: I'd like to see them support all the different ACL types, Solaris, NT, Digital Unix, Irix, etc. (at least, I think the latter two have them) and have them all interoperate reasonably well. But that's no doubt a big undertaking for Netapp with very little return. It might make more sense is to wait on a standard ACL protocol (maybe as part of NFS v4) and then implement that and everyone will talk the same language. I hve reasons to believe the above statement is still an accurate reflection of NTAP's plans. Of course, ACLs for NT were necessary, and given the nature of the next NFS standard it may become important for them to implement Solaris ACLs as well. It will be interesting to see if they can make NT and NFS ACLs interoperate - if anyone can, I'm confident it will be Netapp. :) Bruce

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ndmpc command reference
by Paul English 05 Oct '98

05 Oct '98

Can anyone point me to this? Or even how to get more than just a list of commands from within ndmpc? The documentation with the ndmpkit seems to be "specificational" in nature. The netapp website only has a couple of hints, and this list archive indicates that people use either ndmpcopy or Budtool for the most part. Specifically I need to restore some files from a library attached to the filer to an arbitrary location on a remote unix host (running ndmpd and ndmpc). This should be possible, but the example scripts and packaged documentation are not helpful at all. Pardon the incoherence -- it is Monday, Paul -- Paul English (Tallpaul) (508) 647-7715 tallpaul(a)mathworks.com (508) 647-7015 FAX Walkie Channel 2

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by bbagnall＠Aureal.com 03 Oct '98

03 Oct '98

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Re: NetApp and Solaris: setfacl and getfacl
by Keith Brown 02 Oct '98

02 Oct '98

>Solaris ACLs would rock. > >Any plans of such? Mike.. I am afraid that I am not at liberty to discuss or pre-announce any future or upcoming... well, everyone knows how this sentence ends, right? :-) In actuality, I am unfamiliar with our formal plans in this area, so this is really just a great way for me to cop out of having to say "Errr.. I don't know!" :-). Unfortunately the preceeding sentence would have to apply, even if I did. Hopefully the good folk on this list are understanding of such matters? Keith

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Re: NetApp and Solaris: setfacl and getfacl
by Keith Brown 02 Oct '98

02 Oct '98

>Does anyone know if there is a way to make Access Control Lists work with >NetApp boxes? No there isn't. We don't support Solaris-style UNIX ACLs at this time. We do have NTFS-style ACLs though (for your Windows clients), if you're interested? ;-) Keith

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Backups hanging
by pradeep＠algorithmics.com 02 Oct '98

02 Oct '98

Hi, has anyone out there had any experience of the backups hanging when done using BudTool from a Solaris machine? My environment is as follows: - 2 NetApps, one running 5.0.1D8 (ratso) and the other running 5.0.1 (rizzo). - adminhost is running Solaris 2.5 and has BudTool 4.6 on it. - ratso has a DLT tape library attached to it. - both ratso and rizzo are running ndmp, supporting both versions. When I call for a level 0 backup, it hangs with no error messages whatsoever on various points. Sometimes on a ratso filesystem and other times on rizzo filesystems. I did manage to get one full backup successfully completed, but this was never repeated. However, I get the incrementals done fine though. No problems at all. Has anyone else out there seen this? If so would you be willing to share as to how you solved this problem with me? Thanks in advance. Pradeep. -- Pradeep Subramaniam, | Senior Network/Systems Administrator | You can fool some of the people Algorithmics Inc., Toronto, On., Canada.| all the time, but not all the e-mail: pradeep(a)algorithmics.com | people all the time. phone: (416) 217 4203 | - Yet another brilliant philosopher fax: (416) 971 6263 | *******************************************************************************

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