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Article on RAIT backup strategies
by Derek Kelly 02 May '00

02 May '00

Here's a link to an interesting article on RAIT (Redundant Array of Independent Tapes) strategies... http://www2.itworld.com/cma/ett_article_frame/0,2848,1_495,00.html ...Well, at least *I* thought it was interesting. =) Regards, Derek Kelly GTC

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RE: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups
by Kelly Wyatt 02 May '00

02 May '00

I understand *now* that this has been acknowledged as an ONTAP bug. That was not the case (or VERITAS support did not know that) when I opened my case two weeks ago. I have email from my case owner that 5.3.4R2 is currently being tested. That is where that came from. My point in going to an unqualified release as a concern is that I have been stuck in the middle in the past. If I proceed to a version of ONTAP and backups break, then downgrading to fix backups is not necessarily a pretty thing to do. I guess my biggest concern is... if backups can break, so can restores... I have been backing up filers with NetBackup and NDMP for almost two years. I have seen a lot of the good, the bad and the ugly :-). I tend to be cautious as a result. Perhaps I should not have said "in a supported mode" but rather, in a "known working configuration". In general, backups are still working. We run a script every three hours that ups the drives, and any backups suspended by a downed drive pick up and proceed. And I agree... testing every version of ONTAP would be impossible. Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com The power to know TM -----Original Message----- From: Steve Kappel [mailto:steve.kappel@raistlin.min.ov.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:46 PM To: Kelly.Wyatt(a)sas.com; Klaus.Micheler(a)infineon.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups Kelly Wyatt wrote: >Keep in mind that VERITAS currently has no plans to qualify any 5.3.5 release. >If you are concerned about keeping NetBackup and ONTAP in a supported mode you >need to be at 5.3.4 (qualified). (They are currently qualifying 5.3.4R2 per >email I received from VERITAS support. I don't know where this information is coming from but nothing beyond 5.3.4 is being qualified by VERITAS at this time. There are no plans to qualify any 5.3.4x or 5.3.5 release. Obviously we will be qualifying some future release at some point. Klaus Micheler wrote: >I hope Netapp and Veritas will improve their quality with better >certifications in the near future >and tell us facts, not feelings. Please remember that the absence of qualification of a particular release is not the same as not supporting it. When VERITAS identifies an OnTap release as qualified, it means that we have done a level of testing within VERITAS to suggest to us that the release meets the minimum standards for use with NetBackup for NDMP. It does not mean that there are no issues. Releases that we have not qualified have not been tested by VERITAS. The lack of qualification does not automatically mean we don't support that release. It means that NetApp should be your first contact if you run into a problem that is new with that release. The simple truth is that it would be impossible for VERITAS to test every OnTap release. At some point we must assume that NetApp maintains full upward compatibility with subsequent releases and that reasonable regression tests have been performed. I would point out that the problems that have been seen have been identified by NetApp as an OnTap bug. This problem affects more than one backup application. The fix does not include a new version of NetBackup for NDMP or a NetBackup for NDMP patch. This is strictly an OnTap issue. If you have futher questions about this, please contact me directly. I'm the project lead and developer for NetBackup NDMP. __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve.kappel(a)iname.com (Personal)

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RE: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups
by Kelly Wyatt 02 May '00

02 May '00

We have drives down several times a day. My updrives script runs every three hours. Starting last night, here is what the script did: 6PM Up-ping drive 0,1,8,9 9PM Up-ping drive 0,1,8,9 12AM Up-ping drive 0,1,2,6,9 3AM Up-ping drive 0,1,6,9 6AM Up-ping drive 0,1,6,8,9 All we have to do is up the drive & backups proceed properly. It seems like the downing of the drive is triggered by and end of job or need for a second tape. I also get the (ndmp_connect_open_and_auth), ndmp_result = -5, DOWN'ing it error in the messages file. -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com The power to know TM

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RE: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups
by Kelly Wyatt 02 May '00

02 May '00

Keep in mind that VERITAS currently has no plans to qualify any 5.3.5 release. If you are concerned about keeping NetBackup and ONTAP in a supported mode you need to be at 5.3.4 (qualified). (They are currently qualifying 5.3.4R2 per email I received from VERITAS support. Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com The power to know TM -----Original Message----- From: Micheler Klaus (MDCA Villach) [mailto:Klaus.Micheler@infineon.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:10 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com'; 'Kelly.Wyatt(a)sas.com'; 'armijo(a)cs.unm.edu' Subject: RE: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups On Thu, Apr 20, 2000 at 11:37:35AM -0400, Kelly Wyatt wrote: >> We upgraded out filers to NetApp Release 5.3.4R3P2 this weekend. Since then, NBU 3.2 keeps downing the tape drives on several, but not all of the filers (3 of 9). This seems to happen before, during and after backups. >> >> Has anyone else seen this? Thanks!! >we saw this on previous versions of NBU, 3.1.*, the work around was really >lame. cron executed a script which did something like: vmoprcmd -up # for >each drive. Hi there! We also have the same problem with this release of Ontap and Netbackup v3.2. According to Netapp the cause of this problem is a faulty Java Class (Garbage collection) which NDMP uses. This should also be the reason for the problems with Ontap 5.3.5xxx, where the problem got critical and backup stopped working. Netapp recommended us to switch to Ontap 5.3.5R2P1, where the NDMP-BUG is (hopefully) fixed. regards, Klaus Micheler Infineon Technologies DC

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AW: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups
by Micheler Klaus (MDCA Villach) 02 May '00

02 May '00

At the moment we run 5.3.4R3P2 and have only the problem with with DOWNING Drives (irregular, about 1-2 times a week). It looks like netapp has problems with Ontap Releases gretaer than 5.3.4R2. The last 3 months we used Ontap 5.3.4R2 without any problems. The switch to Ontap 5.3.5P2 (note that netapp and veritas promised us it will work) was a disaster! After switching to the new version everything looked fine. But after about 5 hours the drives went down and setting them up was impossible. Error Message: Apr 29 00:49:17 viws111 avrd[17817]: fatal error on device 3 (ndmp_connect_open_and_auth), ndmp_result = -5, DOWN'ing it. (messages on Netbackup Master) After that and some calls by veritas and netapp we downgraded to Ontap 5.3.4R3P2 and only(!) have the downing drives problem. Netapp then recommended us to switch to Ontap 5.3.5R2P1 and promised us to have that NDMP Bug fixed. By our next shutdown we would have switched to that version of Ontap. But now it looks like we will stay on 5.3.4x so long as we can afford it. I hope Netapp and Veritas will improve their quality with better certifications in the near future and tell us facts, not feelings. regards, Klaus Micheler -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Derek Kelly [mailto:derek.kelly@genomecorp.com] Gesendet am: Dienstag, 02. Mai 2000 16:35 An: Micheler Klaus (MDCA Villach) Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com'; 'Kelly.Wyatt(a)sas.com'; 'armijo(a)cs.unm.edu' Betreff: RE: Network Appliance Upgrade to ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and Backups Yeah- we too are having all kinds of backup related problems with the one filer we have upgraded to 5.3.5R2P1. In our case, we can't back up the machine at all. Aaarrgh, this one really hurts. Not to mention the fact that NetApp had us upgrade to this version partially because of ECC errors we were getting. This is a brandy new F760 to boot. I'm not looking forward to begging for the downtime needed to fix this one. It'll be like... Me: "Uh, hi, um- we need some dowwntime one of the Filers." Them: "Why?" Me: "Ah- because we can't back it up suddenly." Them: "What!?- How long has THIS been going on?" Me: "Since we upgraded the OS last Friday." Them: "You mean that we could lose data from as far back as Friday?" Me: "Unfortunately. Yes." ... Well you all get the picture. I guess I'm just venting because not being able to backup a filer is a PRETTY BIG BUG! Derek Kelly On 5/2/00 at 8:10 AM, Klaus.Micheler(a)infineon.com (Micheler Klaus (MDCA Villach)) wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2000 at 11:37:35AM -0400, Kelly Wyatt wrote: > >> We upgraded out filers to NetApp Release 5.3.4R3P2 this weekend. > Since > then, NBU 3.2 keeps downing the tape drives on > several, but not all of the filers (3 of 9). This seems to happen > before, > during and after backups. > >> > >> Has anyone else seen this? Thanks!! > > >we saw this on previous versions of NBU, 3.1.*, the work around was > really > > >lame. cron executed a script which did something like: vmoprcmd -up # > for > >each drive. > > Hi there! > > We also have the same problem with this release of Ontap and Netbackup > v3.2. > According to Netapp the cause of this problem is a faulty Java Class > (Garbage collection) which NDMP uses. > This should also be the reason for the problems with Ontap 5.3.5xxx, > where > the problem got critical and backup stopped working. > > Netapp recommended us to switch to Ontap 5.3.5R2P1, where the NDMP-BUG > is > (hopefully) fixed. > > regards, Klaus Micheler > Infineon Technologies DC

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FYI: TrueSAN Vs NetApp
by Philip Thomas 01 May '00

01 May '00

I got a chuckle out of their last "comparison" of TrueSAN...Vs F7x0 http://www.truesan.com/analysis.html#netapp ---philip thomas

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What does this message mean
by Timothy Demarest 28 Apr '00

28 Apr '00

I keep seeing these messages on the Filer console: Server busy. Waiting 10 seconds then retrying Server busy. Waiting 10 seconds then retrying What do they mean? Tim

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upgrade to 5.3.5R2
by Corris Randall 28 Apr '00

28 Apr '00

I use my Filer for mostly NFS access, and some CIFS access. People are starting to buy Windows 2000, which won't work in my setting because we don't have an NT domain (everything lives in a workgroup). Has anyone had any bad experiences with 5.3.5R2 ? -corris

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RE: F720 & Sony SDX-510C
by Caldwell, Amy B. 28 Apr '00

28 Apr '00

But we've had the motherboard swapped out by NetApp and we have the exact same error messages. Does anyone out there have this configuration? I just don't understand what we could be doing that is so different from the people that have this drive and the engineers who have "tested" it. Amy -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of tkaczma(a)gryf.net Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 3:50 PM Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: F720 & Sony SDX-510C Sounds to me like a bum SCSI controller. Tom On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Caldwell, Amy B. wrote: > > This is supposedly the third tape drive from our vendor (but at least the > second I'm sure about) and we have tried internal and external termination > (with more than one external terminator). We have sent the drive back to the > vendor multiple times and they have tested it and sent it back with us > getting the same results. The current drive was sent to us directly from a > NetApp engineer (she got it from our vendor) who tested it successfully on a > F760. We don't have another system we could test it on ourselves. > > BTW, we're running Data ONTAP 5.3.4R3. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:nick@iol.ie] > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 11:41 AM > To: Caldwell, Amy B. > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: F720 & Sony SDX-510C > > > > Any ideas or help would be sincerely appreciated. > > Is the tape unit fried? Have you tested it to make sure that it works on > other systems, and that the scsi connection is correctly terminated. > > Nick >

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RE: F720 & Sony SDX-510C
by Caldwell, Amy B. 28 Apr '00

28 Apr '00

The motherboard has been swapped out by NetApp and we've changed cables and terminators many times. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of tkaczma(a)gryf.net Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 3:50 PM Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: F720 & Sony SDX-510C Sounds to me like a bum SCSI controller. Tom On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Caldwell, Amy B. wrote: > > This is supposedly the third tape drive from our vendor (but at least the > second I'm sure about) and we have tried internal and external termination > (with more than one external terminator). We have sent the drive back to the > vendor multiple times and they have tested it and sent it back with us > getting the same results. The current drive was sent to us directly from a > NetApp engineer (she got it from our vendor) who tested it successfully on a > F760. We don't have another system we could test it on ourselves. > > BTW, we're running Data ONTAP 5.3.4R3. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:nick@iol.ie] > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 11:41 AM > To: Caldwell, Amy B. > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: F720 & Sony SDX-510C > > > > Any ideas or help would be sincerely appreciated. > > Is the tape unit fried? Have you tested it to make sure that it works on > other systems, and that the scsi connection is correctly terminated. > > Nick >

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toasters