toasters July 2004

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

60 participants
79 discussions

RE: Implementing ISCSI
by Reinoud Reynders 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hi Jack, A lun is for WAFL just a file, so the snapshot is similar as by a file and is a part of the volume. We have always a separate NIC for our I-scsi traffic. On the filer and also on the server (we use I-SCSI for our SQL servers (PeopleSoft and others applications) and our exchange servers). When you use the same NIC for all your traffic, on havy load, you can get some delays. This is important when you have a high IO application and response time is very important. Best regards, Reinoud Reynders University Hospitals Leuven Belgium -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Jack Lyons [mailto:jack.lyons@martinagency.com] Verzonden: donderdag 8 juli 2004 22:46 Aan: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Onderwerp: Implementing ISCSI All, We have a FAS960 with ~2TB and we are going to implementing ISCSI for a specific message application (Not MS Based). I am trying to understand how snapshots work with ISCSI. Say I have a 400 GB volume with a 200GB lun. When a snapshot is taken, are the snapshots stored in side the lun or in the volume. (I think is in the volume?) Also, we currently have a Quad GigE card in a GigabitEtherchannel. Should I use the ISCSI over that GigEtherChannel or should I dedicate a GigE card. Thanks Jack This email and its contents may be confidential. If it is and you are not the intended recipient, please do not disclose or use the information within this email or its attachments. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. Thank you.

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Implementing ISCSI
by Jack Lyons 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

All, We have a FAS960 with ~2TB and we are going to implementing ISCSI for a specific message application (Not MS Based). I am trying to understand how snapshots work with ISCSI. Say I have a 400 GB volume with a 200GB lun. When a snapshot is taken, are the snapshots stored in side the lun or in the volume. (I think is in the volume?) Also, we currently have a Quad GigE card in a GigabitEtherchannel. Should I use the ISCSI over that GigEtherChannel or should I dedicate a GigE card. Thanks Jack This email and its contents may be confidential. If it is and you are not the intended recipient, please do not disclose or use the information within this email or its attachments. If you have received this email in error, please delete it immediately. Thank you.

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08 Jul '04

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RE: question re NDMP and snapshots
by Hill, Aaron 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I think you are right. Every time we have done snapmirror to tape, the current snapshots appear to be copied. -----Original Message----- From: Stephane Bentebba [mailto:stephane.bentebba@fps.fr] Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2004 4:47 AM Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: question re NDMP and snapshots in a way, snapmirror to tape should be able to copy the present filesystem and the snapshot am I right or wrong ? Peter D. Gray wrote: >I think the answer to this question is no, but >is there any way to get an NDMP backup of a netapp >which includes all the current snapshots. > >I ask because it would be nice to perform a weekly >backup and get all the intervening nightly snapshots. > >I can imagine a few problems however (the number of file names >blowing out for starters). > >Regards, >pdg > >-- > >See mail headers for contact information. > > > > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au **************************************************

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RE: question re NDMP and snapshots
by Kennedy, Jeffrey 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

Snapmirror to tape is what you want. NDMP backups are just BSD dumps using a snapshot for consistency. Snapmirror to tape will get all snapshots. But of course you have to have snapmirror licensed. ~JK > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] > On Behalf Of Stephane Bentebba > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:47 AM > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: question re NDMP and snapshots > > in a way, snapmirror to tape should be able to copy the present > filesystem and the snapshot > am I right or wrong ? > > Peter D. Gray wrote: > > >I think the answer to this question is no, but > >is there any way to get an NDMP backup of a netapp > >which includes all the current snapshots. > > > >I ask because it would be nice to perform a weekly > >backup and get all the intervening nightly snapshots. > > > >I can imagine a few problems however (the number of file names > >blowing out for starters). > > > >Regards, > >pdg > > > >-- > > > >See mail headers for contact information. > > > > > > > > > > > >

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question re NDMP and snapshots
by Peter D. Gray 07 Jul '04

07 Jul '04

I think the answer to this question is no, but is there any way to get an NDMP backup of a netapp which includes all the current snapshots. I ask because it would be nice to perform a weekly backup and get all the intervening nightly snapshots. I can imagine a few problems however (the number of file names blowing out for starters). Regards, pdg -- See mail headers for contact information.

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by Paul Perez 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Krueger, Jeffrey 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

>but I don't think there's ever been a version of ONTAP that would let >you go as high as 72! (I have a vague memory that 56 may once have >been allowed, long long ago.) My foggy recollection is this... Multi-volume, multi-raid group support was added in ONTAP 5. Prior to that all disks went into one RAID4 raid group which had one WAFL volume on it. The "vol" command set didn't exist, instead there was the "disk" command set for adding, swapping, failing, and removing. :) This was in the SCSI days so on an F630 with four Fast/Wide/Differential SCSI controllers and 13 disks on two 3U shelves per controller, you could have a max of 52 disks in the volume/raid group. This took up most of a rack. At the time, we ran about 20 of these with 50 data disks, one parity, and one hot-spare. With the 4GB disks in DEC StorageWorks shelves, we got about 150GB per filer total while the yield on the Eurologics shelves with 9GB disks was more like 325GB. -- Jeff

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RE: RAID Group Size Limits?
by Michael Christian 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

Good insight, Jason, our R200s are targeted for useable storage, not performance. A few points though... The drives are IDE, so will suffer a higher failure rate. When Netapp released the R200, they enforced DP, and limited even a DP raidsize to 14. Also, Netapp sells the R200's in 8TB chunks (2 shelves). No longer can you buy just the number of drives you actually need. You now have to buy by the shelf. All volumes mus be identical. (It would be too easy if you could have a runt volume at the end). -MC -----Original Message----- From: Jason Frank [mailto:jfrank@fastrieve.com] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:54 PM To: Michael Christian Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: RAID Group Size Limits? Take 336 and subtract out your 4 disks, which leaves 332. See what numbers below 29 (since the raid group max size is 28) give you no remainder. Of course, 2, 4, 8 and 16 disk RAID groups divide evenly (just off the top of my head), but you didn't ask to maximize space. I'd have to believe that is a consideration. If you want to do that, use 28 disk RAID groups and you'll have 11 28 disk RAID groups, and 1 24 disk RAID group ( I think that's correct. too lazy to get a calculator out.) Of course, if you need all volumes the exact same size, that won't work. It's all a matter of understanding what you need out of the system. Keep in mind that if you make your RAID groups too small, you're going to pay more in parity and dparity disks than you would with spares. If you're like us, the # of volumes was just as important as any other factors ( I had a minimum that I needed from the system), as well as the net usable space. Jason On Jul 1, 2004, at 7:44 PM, Michael Christian wrote: > Why would DP cut your max raidsize in half? If anything, it should > increase it, though I doubt Netapp allows it. > > Here's a quiz for everyone: > > Q: You have a fully loaded R200, 96TB, 24 shelves, 336 disks. You use > a 2 disk root vol and want no more than 2 hot spares in the system. > What raidsize do you use, so as not to end up with an inordinate > number of spares? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@cba.com.au] > Sent: Wed Jun 30 17:41:38 2004 > To: 'James Brigman'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: RAID Group Size Limits? > > The absolute limit will depend on both your platform (FAS900 series, > FAS250, > R100, R150, R200 or F series) and ONTAP Version. Check the ONTAP > release > manual for your version. For example, 6.5 supports max of 28 for > FAS900 & F > series filers. I think this has been the same for quite a few releases. > > > > RAID DP cuts that in half. > > > > Seems you have two goals; > > 1) Consolidate exisiting volumes into fewer, larger volumes > > 2) Get some performance increase by increasing spindles > > > > You can make your volumes & raid groups larger and thus get more > spindles. > However, there are two questions you need to answer first; > > 1) Are you sure that disk I/O is the bottleneck in your DB > performance? i.e. Run a statit analysis on your filer for some high > and low > usage periods over the next few days and examine the results. > > 2) How important is volume restore time? Remember, the larger the > volume, the longer it will take to restore if there is a double-disk > failure. (Of course, you can always mitigate some of the risk here by > upgrading to 6.5.1 and using RAID DP, however this limits you to max > raid > size of 14). I believe NetApp recommends to keep volumes under 0.5? TB > for > this very reason. > > > > > > Now, if (1) is true and (2) is not so important, you still have one > more > thing to keep in mind; > > Increasing spindles follows the law of diminishing > returns. I > recall reading somewhere that the optimum raid size for performance was > 10-14, anything larger than that and the performance return is > exceedingly > small. > > > > At one place we ran Sybase DB's on 36G disks with RAID > sizes of > 10 & 12 with good results. Although there are a lot of other factors > that > come into play with DB performance. > > > > Ok, that should be enough information to help you make some preliminary > judgements. Let me know how you go. > > > > > > Aaron > > > > _____ > > From: James Brigman [mailto:jbrigman@nc.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, 1 July 2004 9:06 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RAID Group Size Limits? > > > > Does anyone on the list have experience with RAID group size limits? > > > > I seek to convert my qty 5 small volumes for Oracle into qty 2 volumes > (one > big, one little) for oracle and use lots of spindles. In fact, I'd > like to > just do a big, giant volume on my filer and put everything in qtrees > shared/exported. > > > > Anyone out there done this yet? Hit any RAID size limits? > > > > Thx; > > JKB > > > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** > This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains > information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended > recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or > disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from > your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not > constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the > Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its > subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: > www.commbank.com.au > ************************************************** > >

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RE: automate netcache cli commands
by david byte 02 Jul '04

02 Jul '04

What administration type hosts do you have (*nix or windows)? If it is MS based, you could write or get written a small app that will utilize ssh and run commands remotely. I have used several different ssh/l libraries for VB with very good luck. -----Original Message----- From: You, Qinghong [mailto:qhyou@netapp.com] Sent: Thu 7/1/2004 11:29 PM To: Kerry Herschel; toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: Subject: RE: automate netcache cli commands rsh definitely works on NetCache, unless you disable it when you install secureadmin. try yourhost> rsh <cache_ip> -l root[:password] <cmd> thanks Qinghong -----Original Message----- From: Kerry Herschel [mailto:margaret.k.herschel@jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:11 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: automate netcache cli commands Hi, I would like to script some netcache cli commands like ejecting objects on a regular basis. Is it possible to do this with SecureAdmin? I know with Data OnTap I would do this with rsh but rsh doesn't appear to work the same on NetCache. Thanks, Kerry ================================================================ Margaret.K.Herschel(a)jpl.nasa.gov JPL Information Services Jet Propulsion Laboratory Phone 818.354.1111 DISCLAIMER: The personal and professional opinions presented herein are my own and do not, in any way, represent the opinion or policy of JPL.

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toasters July 2004