toasters March 2002

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

120 participants
168 discussions

RE: R100 Price?
by 張自光 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

I agree. I also make my living selling NetApps right here in Taiwan. However, maybe the scenario is true for North America market. But in Taiwan, or the whole Asia market, USD$300,000 as the entrance price is TOO ridiculous. People will buy high performance filers with this price, but not for some IDE disks assembled, low- performance nearline filers. If they want to compete with other nearline storage devices in this market, they should set the entrance lower. I think I can persuade my clients to spend USD$100,000 for a NearStore with 4TB capacity, but not a USD$300,000 12TB NearStore. Why not let customers choose the capacity and price tag they want? *Sigh* Regards, -- Allen TK. Chang Syscape Tech -----Original Message----- From: Joe Luchtenberg Sent: 2002/3/22 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> Cc: Subject: RE: R100 Price? No error. Note that this price is for 12TB raw (that's the cost to get into the NearStore dance). Well under $0.03 per raw MB (NetApp promotional materials cite $0.02, but I think that's just for the h/w - list price is $275K for the base 12TB system). That's a whole bunch less than a filer -- an F840c or F880c at 12TB will run you 2.5-3x more, and multiple smaller filers even more than that. Of course, the NearStore isn't meant to replace production filers. You're right to make the comparison to other nearline storage devices, and that's where NetApp has to sell its value proposition. I.e. integration with other filers (SnapMirror, SnapVault, SnapRestore), snapshot technology, no latency (compared to libraries w/ media pickers), universal access, better reliability, etc... Other disk-based nearline products are rushing to market now, too. Some are simply repackaged low-end NAS being repositioned to grab some market share. Others may be real players. However, I don't think there's another vendor going this aggressively into the nearline market space that has the comprehensive solution and integration across the enterprise that you can get with NetApp, though. Of course I'm a little biased, since I make some of my living selling these things. :-] Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. Email: joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606 Please visit us at www.data-line.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen_Chang(a)syscape.com.tw [ mailto:Allen_Chang@syscape.com.tw] > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:51 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: R100 Price? > > > > From what I heard from NetApp sales and managers for the past few > months, it seems the new NearStore product line will be a > cost-effective, > low-performance, large capacity filer designated for > near-line storage. > > However, I just downloaded the newest Quoter from the NOW site. > The new Quoter indicated that an R100-12TB preconfigured is priced > for nearly USD$330,000(Wow!!!). Is this an error of the new Quoter? > Or, NetApp executives really think they can use this AMAZING > price to compete with other nearline storage devices? > > *Sigh* > > > Regards, > -- > Allen TK. Chang > Project Manager > allen_chang(a)syscape.com.tw > Syscape Technology > > >

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Re: Simple 760 question ...
by Rune Bakken 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

"Waters, G Scott DSTI" <scott.waters(a)SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL> writes: > My recollection (which I hope is correct) is that new filers come max'ed out > with RAM ... but the older filers did not and thus could be upgraded. Is > that correct? I believe that the F7xx and onward series came with max'ed out RAM, you may want to check the system configuration guide on NOW for reference. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/hardware/NetApp/syscfg/ >>>>>>>.rune -- Rune Bakken Senior System Administrator Telenor Business Company (Nextra), IP-Services Ph: +47 22 77 03 93

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Putting a DS14 in a clustered system with mixed shelves ...
by Waters, G Scott DSTI 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Ok ... Here's a tougher one ... I have a DS14 I need to add to a filer that is clustered. The docs tell you that the shelf needs to be last in the loop. What about in a clustered environment?? Does anyone have any experience in this scenario?? A NetApp tech said he would research this for me ... but I have not heard back from him. Thanks (as always) for your input. - Scott W. scott.waters(a)sbccom.apgea.army.mil

1 0

Simple 760 question ...
by Waters, G Scott DSTI 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Here is a simple one (I think) that I can not find the answer to ... What is the maximum amount of RAM that can be installed in a F760 filer?? My recollection (which I hope is correct) is that new filers come max'ed out with RAM ... but the older filers did not and thus could be upgraded. Is that correct? Thanks for your help. - Scott W. scott.waters(a)sbccom.apgea.army.mil

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RE: Migrating NT directories...
by Wurster, Richard M DSTI 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

We also used Secure Copy with good results. Rick Wurster SBCCOM / DSTI 410-436-3824 DSN 584-3824 < mailto:rick.wurster@sbccom.apgea.army.mil <mailto:rick.wurster@sbccom.apgea.army.mil> > -----Original Message----- From: Drew O'Donnell [mailto:drew@cooperneff.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:19 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Migrating NT directories... Secure Copy by small wonders. We just used it in our server consolidation project and it worked great. -----Original Message----- From: Don.Hickey(a)alcatel.com [mailto:Don.Hickey@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:08 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Migrating NT directories... Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

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RE: Migrating NT directories...
by Drew O'Donnell 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

Secure Copy by small wonders. We just used it in our server consolidation project and it worked great. -----Original Message----- From: Don.Hickey(a)alcatel.com [mailto:Don.Hickey@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:08 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Migrating NT directories... Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

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RE: Migrating NT directories...
by Nail, Larry 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

We've used ROBOCOPY with the Security switch, but it doesn't do "local" groups very well. SecureCopy does a great job with that, so what we do is an initial copy with SecureCopy and then a "incremental" ROBOCOPY (w/o security) just before I switch the old share off. -----Original Message----- From: Don.Hickey(a)alcatel.com [mailto:Don.Hickey@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:08 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Migrating NT directories... Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

1 0

RE: R100 Price?
by Joe Luchtenberg 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

No error. Note that this price is for 12TB raw (that's the cost to get into the NearStore dance). Well under $0.03 per raw MB (NetApp promotional materials cite $0.02, but I think that's just for the h/w - list price is $275K for the base 12TB system). That's a whole bunch less than a filer -- an F840c or F880c at 12TB will run you 2.5-3x more, and multiple smaller filers even more than that. Of course, the NearStore isn't meant to replace production filers. You're right to make the comparison to other nearline storage devices, and that's where NetApp has to sell its value proposition. I.e. integration with other filers (SnapMirror, SnapVault, SnapRestore), snapshot technology, no latency (compared to libraries w/ media pickers), universal access, better reliability, etc... Other disk-based nearline products are rushing to market now, too. Some are simply repackaged low-end NAS being repositioned to grab some market share. Others may be real players. However, I don't think there's another vendor going this aggressively into the nearline market space that has the comprehensive solution and integration across the enterprise that you can get with NetApp, though. Of course I'm a little biased, since I make some of my living selling these things. :-] Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. Email: joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com Phone: 757-457-0504 (direct line) 757-858-0600 (front desk) 757-285-1223 (mobile) Fax: 757-858-0606 Please visit us at www.data-line.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen_Chang(a)syscape.com.tw [mailto:Allen_Chang@syscape.com.tw] > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:51 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: R100 Price? > > > > From what I heard from NetApp sales and managers for the past few > months, it seems the new NearStore product line will be a > cost-effective, > low-performance, large capacity filer designated for > near-line storage. > > However, I just downloaded the newest Quoter from the NOW site. > The new Quoter indicated that an R100-12TB preconfigured is priced > for nearly USD$330,000(Wow!!!). Is this an error of the new Quoter? > Or, NetApp executives really think they can use this AMAZING > price to compete with other nearline storage devices? > > *Sigh* > > > Regards, > -- > Allen TK. Chang > Project Manager > allen_chang(a)syscape.com.tw > Syscape Technology > > >

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RE: Migrating NT directories...
by Michael.Grey＠ttc.ca 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

When we migrated all our data to the Filers we used Robocopy. Robocopy is part of the NT Resource Kit and will preserve permissions. Some of the switches you should/will use with Robocopy are /E /SEC If you are migrating data prior to the cut-over date you may consider using the /MIR switch though ensure you understand how this switch works prior to using it to avoid data loss. Regards, ___________________ Michael Grey Technical Support Analyst Information Technology Services Department Toronto Transit Commission 1900 Yonge Street Toronto, Ontario M4S 1Z2 Tel. 416-393-6791 Cell 416-518-3412 -----Original Message----- From: Don.Hickey(a)alcatel.com [SMTP:Don.Hickey@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:08 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Migrating NT directories... Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

1 0

RE: Migrating NT directories...
by pkeim(contr-ird) 22 Mar '02

22 Mar '02

We've had much success using robocopy version 1.95 available in the Windows 2000 Resource Kit. From the console of the source NT 4 or W2K server, map the Z:\ drive to the appropriate volume on the filer. To avoid fragmentation, move the data in two steps -- The /CREATE switch creates a directory tree structure containing zero-length files only. The second pass actually copies the data to the destination. The /SEC switch preserves NTFS permissions. Here's an example . . . PASS ONE robocopy "F:\folderA" "Z:\Accounting_TOP\folderA" /E /SEC /CREATE /R:3 /W:1 /V /LOG:folderA1.TXT PASS TWO robocopy "F:\folderA" "Z:\Accounting_TOP\folderA" /E /SEC /R:3 /W:1 /V /LOG:folderA2.TXT -----Original Message----- From: Don.Hickey(a)alcatel.com [mailto:Don.Hickey@alcatel.com] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:08 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Migrating NT directories... Basic question.... what tools are commonly used to migrate NT directories with complex permission sets? NT is not very good at preserving permission's. I'm looking at the best method of migrating NT group directories, many of which have very specific file permissions. I've tried tools such as dumpacl but many of the functions don't work against the filer. I'm running 6.1.1R2 on clustered 840's. Thanks!

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toasters March 2002