toasters October 2001

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

136 participants
184 discussions

Faceplate colors: the secret memo
by Chris Lamb 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Wow, this shocking news just in: In light of the spirited Faceplate Debate (and previous archived threads) an anonymous source from deep within the company revealed that this is in fact a serious issue, causing considerable conflict between the aesthetic sensibilities of the industrial designers and the marketing department. After extensive psychological consultation and research into the impact of faceplate color on file server administrators, some very interesting color choices were vetoed. So here now, (with apologies to David Letterman) I present to you, the Top Ten Rejected NetApp Faceplate Color Schemes 10. Charcoal "where my NVRAM battery used to be" Grey 9. Harvest "every bad kitchen appliance from the 70's" Gold 8. Smoked "power supply" Salmon 7. Burnt "fan motor" Sienna 6. Dusty "choked floppy drive" Rose 5. Rhodamine "reformat" Red 4. Chocolate "YooHoo-in-the-air-intakes" Brown 3. Electric "static discharge" Blue 2. British Racing "for the fire extinguisher" Green And the number one Rejected NetApp Faceplate Color Scheme: 1. Deep "parity error" Purple I guess the good news is that "sea foam green with woodgrain panels" is still in the running! Yes! I want my next filer painted like a '74 Pinto! :-) -- Chris

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RE: Ack! I can't take it anymore!
by jwitham＠takedapharm.com 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

For those who care... Saw our shiny new F880 today. Impressions? Hate the faceplate. It's that damn Burnt Cyan color Crayola that always survived my grade school years unscathed. It's also "bubbly". It looks _so_ out of place next to my 760s. Love the DS14. It's absolutely beautiful. The cabling is a little confusing to me though, I'm going to have to RTFM to figure out why there are 2 optical inputs on the 2 LRCs, and only copper outs. Also, there looks to be a PS2-like adapter on the LRC... ? NetApp changed the new Racks. There's now a screen door at the rear, and 30A 250v power supplies instead of 20A 250v power supplies... We have to have an electrician come in and ensure this facility can handle the amperage, and also change the outlets as 30A plugs are different than 20A plugs. Bummer! Can't even fire the box up yet! The guts of the F880 look to be the exact same as the 840... big honking NVRAM car battery, dual processor capable motherboard (the F880 does have 2 processors), and no LVD SCSI onboard. I really wish the old chrome faceplates would make a comeback. I'd kill to have one hanging on my wall... -john John Witham Senior Data Networking Engineer Takeda Pharmaceuticals North America, Inc. V://847.383.3304 F://847.383.3205 mailto://jwitham@takedapharm.com <mailto://jwitham@takedapharm.com> Confucius say he who play as root eventually kill tree. -----Original Message----- From: jwitham(a)takedapharm.com [mailto:jwitham@takedapharm.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 4:55 PM To: skeezics(a)measurecast.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Ack! I can't take it anymore! Should have my 880 in the data center on Friday. I'll let you know what the general consensus is... Yeah, the faceplate will be nice, but I'm looking more forward to the flawless Outhouse-like crate the racks ship in. I'm planning on bringing in my sawzall to cut a half-moon in the door. Oh yeah, it should perform well too. Almost forgot about that. John Witham Senior Data Networking Engineer Takeda Pharmaceuticals North America, Inc. V://847.383.3304 F://847.383.3205 mailto://jwitham@takedapharm.com <mailto://jwitham@takedapharm.com> Confucius say he who play as root eventually kill tree. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Lamb [mailto:skeezics@measurecast.com <mailto:skeezics@measurecast.com> ] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 4:19 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Ack! I can't take it anymore! Time for a diversion. :-) It's been two weeks since the F880 was announced. And nobody here has any comments whatsoever? How can that be? Yeah, SMP, new benchmarks, tech specs, blah blah blah - that's not even relevant (yet). What's *really* at issue here is the new Jetsons-inspired faceplate. I can't believe that nobody has anything to say about that! It's the new fall fashion lineup in geek gear, and nary a peep! I vote for "skinnable" filers. I think it'd be _cool_ to have a selection of colors and styles. I loved the gleam of the F630 - I think most folks would agree that was one of the coolest designs ever. The elegant, understated blue of the F700's is nice. Fits in elegantly with the purple (er, "periwinkle") of the Sun gear. I think next we ought to have a gleaming black, or maybe a rich charcoal... or better yet, just have a custom grille color selection and paint 'em to order. :-) Right. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Cheers, -- Chris -- Chris Lamb, Unix Guy MeasureCast, Inc. 503-241-1469 x247 <skeezics(a)measurecast.com>

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RE: NetApp response on Microsoft Support for SQL Server and Excha nge
by Bunce, Ken 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Reading e-mails like one from Clark is really making me nervous, I just convinced my corporation to migrate our SQL 7.0 database to a F840 based on assurances from Sandy and our local representatives from NetApp of MS support for SQL in a NAS environment. I, too, have gotten my email from NetApp regarding signing a NDA. Quit worrying about protecting your tails and give us an honest answer. Ken Bunce -----Original Message----- From: Clark Turner To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; sandra.lake(a)netapp.com Sent: 10/5/01 10:25 AM Subject: Re: NetApp response on Microsoft Support for SQL Server and Exchange Thanks for the information Sandy. I just read the QB article 5 times. Towards the end of the article is states: Limited support is extended to only the SQL server application and DOES NOT extend to any issues that may occur as a result of the use of non windows Logo qualified products: EMC Clariion server Network Appliance Filers (specifically the Netapp F760 and F800) Nowhere in the article does it say that NAS is supported on The Netapp products. There is a line stating "limited" support for NAS devices. "Limited" is not a good enough reason for me to put my Job on the line running SQL on this 840. Here is another quote: "Microsoft generally recommends that you store Database files either on local disk subsystems or on storage area networks (SAN)." That's the one that grabs my attention. Add the lines about data corruption and I am scared. Then add in a posts that passed through this list: "It is confirmed from our Microsoft Rep. that they will not support SQL or Exchange on NAS. But it is supported on SAN. We are moving our SQL databases and exchange from NAS to a SAN. Leaving the F740 to do file services at a rather expensive cost." and "We have also noticed that some of the databases have gone suspect when there was a hiccup on the comm side. You know as well as I that's not acceptable. In some instances the databases that went suspect could not be recovered and had to be restored from a SQL backup." After all of this I thought I would test our loaner 840 out. I took a copy of a production database that was 5 gig in size and then inserted 34 million records into it. First I ran this on local Raid 5 on a Compaq DL580. It took about 10 hours. Then I offloaded a fresh copy of the database to the 840 and ran the test again. To our amazement the netapp database was missing records. It failed to write the records down to disk. Just as the above quote states and just as the MS article warns. A single missing record means that my database us useless. I was never able to fix the problem in a week of solid testing. Then a Netapp employee sent me email talking about me signing a non disclosure statement before Netapp would discuss the issue really made me step back and think. I think our data is to important to chance. I know some people are doing this but the events in the last week have told me that its just not safe.I need a solution that is GUARANTEED and officially supported by Microsoft. CT >>> "Lake, Sandy" <sandra.lake(a)netapp.com> 10/4/2001 6:12:51 PM >>> Network Appliance has more than 200 customers using filers with SQL Server 6.5, 7.0, or 2000 with databases ranging up to 800 GB. Microsoft has published knowledge base article Q304261 on the Microsoft Web site, which states support of their SQL Server product when used with Network Appliance F760 or F800 series products. The article can be found at: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q304/2/61.asp?id=Q30426 1 The Microsoft rep in the field may not be aware of this knowledge base article. Customers will receive SQL Server support from Microsoft Product Support Services when they log a call. Network Appliance hosts 1.1 million Exchange seats at more than 200 large Exchange accounts. Network Appliance is the primary provider of support for SnapManager and filers deployed in Exchange 5.5 or Exchange 2000 environments. When the Exchange log file and store are located on filers and the customer experiences any problems getting to their data, a support call would be opened with Network Appliance. Microsoft has published knowledge base article Q237767, which covers offline and snapshot backups in Exchange environments. That article can be found at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q237/7/67.asp?id=Q23776 7 Working with the customer, Network Appliance will determine if the root cause of the call is with SnapManager, filers, Exchange 5.5 or Exchange 2000. If the root cause is unrelated to NetApp products, IBM Global Services (IBMGS), NetApp's certified support partner for Exchange, is brought into the call to assist us. Network Appliance, IBMGS, and the customer work together to close the call to the customer's satisfaction. The customer's support agreement would be contracted through NetApp. There is no additional charge to the customer for the Exchange expertise provided by IBMGS. Network Appliance offers customers several service agreement levels that can be tailored to meet their specific support requirements. Network Appliance offers many solutions that protect and enhance a customers investment in the Microsoft platform, however this is not the appropriate forum for that discussion. If you need or would like more details about information in this email, please contact your local sales rep. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Sandy Lake Director, Microsoft Alliances Network Appliance <<InterScan_Disclaimer.txt>>

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Re: NetApp response on Microsoft Support for SQL Server and Exchange
by Clark Turner 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Thanks for the information Sandy. I just read the QB article 5 times. Towards the end of the article is states: Limited support is extended to only the SQL server application and DOES NOT extend to any issues that may occur as a result of the use of non windows Logo qualified products: EMC Clariion server Network Appliance Filers (specifically the Netapp F760 and F800) Nowhere in the article does it say that NAS is supported on The Netapp products. There is a line stating "limited" support for NAS devices. "Limited" is not a good enough reason for me to put my Job on the line running SQL on this 840. Here is another quote: "Microsoft generally recommends that you store Database files either on local disk subsystems or on storage area networks (SAN)." That's the one that grabs my attention. Add the lines about data corruption and I am scared. Then add in a posts that passed through this list: "It is confirmed from our Microsoft Rep. that they will not support SQL or Exchange on NAS. But it is supported on SAN. We are moving our SQL databases and exchange from NAS to a SAN. Leaving the F740 to do file services at a rather expensive cost." and "We have also noticed that some of the databases have gone suspect when there was a hiccup on the comm side. You know as well as I that's not acceptable. In some instances the databases that went suspect could not be recovered and had to be restored from a SQL backup." After all of this I thought I would test our loaner 840 out. I took a copy of a production database that was 5 gig in size and then inserted 34 million records into it. First I ran this on local Raid 5 on a Compaq DL580. It took about 10 hours. Then I offloaded a fresh copy of the database to the 840 and ran the test again. To our amazement the netapp database was missing records. It failed to write the records down to disk. Just as the above quote states and just as the MS article warns. A single missing record means that my database us useless. I was never able to fix the problem in a week of solid testing. Then a Netapp employee sent me email talking about me signing a non disclosure statement before Netapp would discuss the issue really made me step back and think. I think our data is to important to chance. I know some people are doing this but the events in the last week have told me that its just not safe.I need a solution that is GUARANTEED and officially supported by Microsoft. CT >>> "Lake, Sandy" <sandra.lake(a)netapp.com> 10/4/2001 6:12:51 PM >>> Network Appliance has more than 200 customers using filers with SQL Server 6.5, 7.0, or 2000 with databases ranging up to 800 GB. Microsoft has published knowledge base article Q304261 on the Microsoft Web site, which states support of their SQL Server product when used with Network Appliance F760 or F800 series products. The article can be found at: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q304/2/61.asp?id=Q304261 The Microsoft rep in the field may not be aware of this knowledge base article. Customers will receive SQL Server support from Microsoft Product Support Services when they log a call. Network Appliance hosts 1.1 million Exchange seats at more than 200 large Exchange accounts. Network Appliance is the primary provider of support for SnapManager and filers deployed in Exchange 5.5 or Exchange 2000 environments. When the Exchange log file and store are located on filers and the customer experiences any problems getting to their data, a support call would be opened with Network Appliance. Microsoft has published knowledge base article Q237767, which covers offline and snapshot backups in Exchange environments. That article can be found at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q237/7/67.asp?id=Q237767 Working with the customer, Network Appliance will determine if the root cause of the call is with SnapManager, filers, Exchange 5.5 or Exchange 2000. If the root cause is unrelated to NetApp products, IBM Global Services (IBMGS), NetApp's certified support partner for Exchange, is brought into the call to assist us. Network Appliance, IBMGS, and the customer work together to close the call to the customer's satisfaction. The customer's support agreement would be contracted through NetApp. There is no additional charge to the customer for the Exchange expertise provided by IBMGS. Network Appliance offers customers several service agreement levels that can be tailored to meet their specific support requirements. Network Appliance offers many solutions that protect and enhance a customers investment in the Microsoft platform, however this is not the appropriate forum for that discussion. If you need or would like more details about information in this email, please contact your local sales rep. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sandy Lake Director, Microsoft Alliances Network Appliance

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NetApp response on Microsoft Support for SQL Server and Exchange
by Lake, Sandy 05 Oct '01

05 Oct '01

Network Appliance has more than 200 customers using filers with SQL Server 6.5, 7.0, or 2000 with databases ranging up to 800 GB. Microsoft has published knowledge base article Q304261 on the Microsoft Web site, which states support of their SQL Server product when used with Network Appliance F760 or F800 series products. The article can be found at: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q304/2/61.asp?id=Q304261 The Microsoft rep in the field may not be aware of this knowledge base article. Customers will receive SQL Server support from Microsoft Product Support Services when they log a call. Network Appliance hosts 1.1 million Exchange seats at more than 200 large Exchange accounts. Network Appliance is the primary provider of support for SnapManager and filers deployed in Exchange 5.5 or Exchange 2000 environments. When the Exchange log file and store are located on filers and the customer experiences any problems getting to their data, a support call would be opened with Network Appliance. Microsoft has published knowledge base article Q237767, which covers offline and snapshot backups in Exchange environments. That article can be found at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q237/7/67.asp?id=Q237767 Working with the customer, Network Appliance will determine if the root cause of the call is with SnapManager, filers, Exchange 5.5 or Exchange 2000. If the root cause is unrelated to NetApp products, IBM Global Services (IBMGS), NetApp's certified support partner for Exchange, is brought into the call to assist us. Network Appliance, IBMGS, and the customer work together to close the call to the customer's satisfaction. The customer's support agreement would be contracted through NetApp. There is no additional charge to the customer for the Exchange expertise provided by IBMGS. Network Appliance offers customers several service agreement levels that can be tailored to meet their specific support requirements. Network Appliance offers many solutions that protect and enhance a customers investment in the Microsoft platform, however this is not the appropriate forum for that discussion. If you need or would like more details about information in this email, please contact your local sales rep. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sandy Lake Director, Microsoft Alliances Network Appliance

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Re: Ack! I can't take it anymore!
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

In a message dated 10/4/01 11:41:00 AM Central Daylight Time, kgraham(a)dotnetdotcom.org writes: > > > I really wish the old chrome faceplates would make a comeback. I'd kill > to > > > have one hanging on my wall... > > > > We have a beautiful chrome faceplate set > > Does it include a transferrable license? Hello, Kevin: The kind folks in NetApp's legal department have informed us that ALL LICENSES TRANSFER with this beautiful F540 faceplate! As such, Mike Linnett at Zero Wait has allowed that he plans to use his artistic license to transform the faceplate into a stunning wall clock. Even NetApp's museum curator has indicated an interest buying this chrome gem back (maybe along with some of their stock). Current high bid is $75.00, which is clearly a steal; and remember -- your winning bid is tax-deductible. Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com

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CIFS Security auditing
by Drew O'Donnell 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

We want to be able to monitor security changes on our filers for CIFS users. I have enabled CIFS auditing on our filer, and it is working, but I am having some additional issues. The EVT format of the event log presents us with a problem because it is a binary file. We currently scan the NT event logs with a service that runs on each of our servers. Any unauthorized access strings are picked up and forwarded to our paging\mail system. Since we cannot run this service on a Netapp, we are unable to scan these files. I have seen some Perl Scripts that can convert the EVT log to a text file, which we can scan, but I would rather not do this. How are admins monitoring CIFS security changes on your Filers? Drew

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Re: Ack! I can't take it anymore!
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

In a message dated 10/3/01 7:55:37 PM Central Daylight Time, jwitham(a)takedapharm.com writes: > I really wish the old chrome faceplates would make a comeback. I'd kill to > have one hanging on my wall... Hello, John: We have a beautiful chrome faceplate set from an F540 that would be PERFECT for your basement wall. All Toasters' readers are hereby invited to bid on this classic collectors' item! Bidding will end tomorrow, Friday, at 5pm Pacific time. The winning bidder will send his/her check to the "September 11th Fund", United Way of New York City, 2 Park Avenue, New York, NY 10016; the faceplates will be shipped free of charge. The winning bidder will be publicly recognized for his/her generosity and/or foolishness. Good luck! Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com

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Re: Ack! I can't take it anymore!
by Waters, G Scott DSTI 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Extra $100??? Correct me if I am wrong ... I think it is a lot more than $100. - Scott W -----Original Message----- From: Pete Ehlke <pde(a)foad.org> To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Thu Oct 04 11:56:32 2001 Subject: Re: Ack! I can't take it anymore! * Dave Hitz <hitz(a)netapp.com> said, on [011003 21:40]: > > The F840 has been shipping for ages now, and nobody has complained > loudly about the color. > I think I can speak for everyone here when I say: Bring back the chrome faceplates! The 630 was just... well.. it was just badass. I don't think there's *anyone* who wouldn't pay the extra $100 for a chrome faceplate. -Pete

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RE: Another strong-arm move by Micro$oft
by Honeycutt, Michael 04 Oct '01

04 Oct '01

Yea, but you are still at the mecry of an os like NT/2K, solaris in a SAN enviroment. That was one of the main reason my company went with NAS. We have had our filer 4 10 months, and have had about 4 minutes of outage. Not too shabby compared to NT huh? Also, it is true that MS does not support Exchange on a filer, however some companies do (IE - IBM). Not sure about SQL. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas.L.White(a)chase.com [mailto:Thomas.L.White@chase.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:29 AM To: Hall, John L Cc: 'Clark Turner'; toasters(a)mathworks.com; PMAGLINGER(a)scvl.com Subject: RE: Another strong-arm move by Micro$oft I guess its a good thing those SANs are so cheap. "Hall, John L" <HallJL(a)MapleLeaf.ca>@mathworks.com on 10/04/2001 10:54:38 AM Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com To: "'Clark Turner'" <cturner(a)phx1.bcbsaz.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com, PMAGLINGER(a)scvl.com cc: Subject: RE: Another strong-arm move by Micro$oft It is confirmed from our Microsoft Rep. that they will not support SQL or Exchange on NAS. But it is supported on SAN. We are moving our SQL databases and exchange from NAS to a SAN. Leaving the F740 to do file services at a rather expensive cost. -----Original Message----- From: Clark Turner [mailto:cturner@phx1.bcbsaz.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 10:29 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; PMAGLINGER(a)scvl.com Subject: Re: Another strong-arm move by Micro$oft I would like to know as well. I do not think we can go ahead with the roll out of our SQL DB's an 840 If MS says they do not support it. Clark >>> "Maglinger, Paul" <PMAGLINGER(a)scvl.com> 10/4/2001 6:05:55 AM >>> Can't Microsoft leave well enough alone? What's Network Appliance's view on this? http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2816142,00.html <http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2816142,00.html>

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toasters October 2001