toasters December 2000

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

112 participants
116 discussions

RE: Toaster newbie questions
by Sam Schorr 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

I would highly recommend going with 1 volume and 1 RAID group given your initial buy. With one shelf, you are going to get 1 parity and 6 data without leaving any disks as a spare - not a good idea. So, if use 1 disk for spare, then you have 5 data and 1 parity. Even with only one volume, you can easily setup NFS mount points and CIFS shares that either mix or do not by creating sub-directories or folders that reside on the 1 volume. Remember that you also give up space to NTAP, the O/S, and to snapshots which are volume specific (default is 20% of total volume size). That will leave you with about 4 drives of live file space. So, 4*32gig=128 gig size of volume. -----Original Message----- From: lgkloft(a)usgs.gov [mailto:lgkloft@usgs.gov] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:44 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: lgkloft(a)usgs.gov Subject: Toaster newbie questions I am setting up my first toaster - an F720 with one shelf (seven 36GB drives). I'm seeking some "real-life" experiences and recommendations based on what I am trying to do. I work in a small office with approximately 50 employees and utilize UNIX and NT operating systems. I currently have several $HOME, $PROJECT, and GIS-related filesystems residing on my UNIX system. I plan to move these filesystems to the filer, but will be unable to create a separate volume for each filesystem. I considered creating two raid-groups, one for $HOME and one for $PROJECT, but I think there will be a performance hit (only 1-2 data disks per volume) and it will cost me two drives for parity, not to mention the spare disk drive. I am now looking at employing one large volume (the root volume) and establishing Qtrees to establish and manage HOME, PROJECT, and GIS areas within this volume, which would require NFS and CIFS access. I am also considering the idea of creating an additional Qtree to maintain user's roaming profiles for the NT environment - which would require CIFs access only. I don't like the idea of doing this all in one volume (especially /vol/vol0), but it looks as if this is the route I will be taking unless someone has a better recommendation. Finally, how difficult, or is it even possible, to remove a Qtree? I didn't find anything in the SA Guide to do this. Thanks, Loren

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Re: Filers and Extreme switches
by Paul Wiltsey 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

We have had excellent results with Filers and Extreme switches, specifically Black Diamonds, Summit 48s, 7is. Can you be more specific about what you are trying to do? ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Ellett <p_ellett(a)yahoo.com> Date: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 9:22 pm Subject: Filers and Extreme switches > Hi all > > Has anyone experienced poor performance with Filers and Extreme > Alpine or Black Diamond switches? > If yes, any fixes or workarounds known? > > Pete Ellett > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ >

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RE: Toaster newbie questions
by Mike Sphar 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

We run several hundred gigs on each of our filers all as one volume. There's a downside in terms of restoring data in case of a failure, but since we paid a lot of money for these netapps in the first place so as to not *have* failures, we consider that an acceptable risk. Our disk space requirements change constantly, so for us trying to maintain separate volumes would be a nightmare and would inevitably create more downtime in the long run. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services, BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: lgkloft(a)usgs.gov [mailto:lgkloft@usgs.gov] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:44 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: lgkloft(a)usgs.gov Subject: Toaster newbie questions I am setting up my first toaster - an F720 with one shelf (seven 36GB drives). I'm seeking some "real-life" experiences and recommendations based on what I am trying to do. I work in a small office with approximately 50 employees and utilize UNIX and NT operating systems. I currently have several $HOME, $PROJECT, and GIS-related filesystems residing on my UNIX system. I plan to move these filesystems to the filer, but will be unable to create a separate volume for each filesystem. I considered creating two raid-groups, one for $HOME and one for $PROJECT, but I think there will be a performance hit (only 1-2 data disks per volume) and it will cost me two drives for parity, not to mention the spare disk drive. I am now looking at employing one large volume (the root volume) and establishing Qtrees to establish and manage HOME, PROJECT, and GIS areas within this volume, which would require NFS and CIFS access. I am also considering the idea of creating an additional Qtree to maintain user's roaming profiles for the NT environment - which would require CIFs access only. I don't like the idea of doing this all in one volume (especially /vol/vol0), but it looks as if this is the route I will be taking unless someone has a better recommendation. Finally, how difficult, or is it even possible, to remove a Qtree? I didn't find anything in the SA Guide to do this. Thanks, Loren

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RE: Qualstar AIT-2 and Veritas
by Joe Luchtenberg 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

Apologize for the delayed reply to this. Am a strong supporter of AIT-2 and Spectra Logic, but aren't you getting ahead of yourself? According to SL's web page, GbE interfaces are currently under development, but not yet available. If you want to implement GbE with Spectra Logic and NetApp today, you still require a backup server to which you would SCSI- or Fibre-attach your Spectra Logic tape library (I would recommend setting up a private network to take the traffic off your production network, though). Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. New number and email, please update: 757.858.0600 858.0606 fax joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Alvarado, Michael [SMTP:michael.alvarado@netapp.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 8:52 PM > To: 'Moshe Linzer'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Qualstar AIT-2 and Veritas > > Have you considered the GbE AIT 2 library from SpectraLogic? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Moshe Linzer [mailto:Moshe.Linzer@nsc.com] > Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 4:00 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Qualstar AIT-2 and Veritas > > > In our quest for a Budtool + tape library replacement, we are currently > looking at Veritas NetBackup and a Qualstar AIT-2 tape library for our 2 > NetApp F760's. Does anyone have experience with this combination? > Qualstar makes a good argument for AIT technology. Is AIT-2 fully > supported on the 760? From looking on NOW, I noticed a few things: > > 1. The F760 SCSI port is HVD, Qualstar library is LVD-SE, so I need a > converter. Can the Filer port be changed to LVD-SE? > 2. Tape drive matrix on > NOW > (http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/cert_matrices/tape_drives.s > ht > ml) > says that versions below OnTap 6.0 require a PVR. What exactly is a > PVR? Will I still get full performance from the drive? > > Is anyone using Veritas with a Qualstar library? > > Thanks, > > Moshe > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > - > Moshe Linzer | On the Internet, > Unix Systems Manager | > National Semiconductor, Israel | nobody knows you're a moron. > Phone: 972-9-970-2247 | > Fax: 972-9-970-2001 | - Network Magazine > Email: moshel(a)nsc.com | > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > - >

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Toaster newbie questions
by lgkloft＠usgs.gov 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

I am setting up my first toaster - an F720 with one shelf (seven 36GB drives). I'm seeking some "real-life" experiences and recommendations based on what I am trying to do. I work in a small office with approximately 50 employees and utilize UNIX and NT operating systems. I currently have several $HOME, $PROJECT, and GIS-related filesystems residing on my UNIX system. I plan to move these filesystems to the filer, but will be unable to create a separate volume for each filesystem. I considered creating two raid-groups, one for $HOME and one for $PROJECT, but I think there will be a performance hit (only 1-2 data disks per volume) and it will cost me two drives for parity, not to mention the spare disk drive. I am now looking at employing one large volume (the root volume) and establishing Qtrees to establish and manage HOME, PROJECT, and GIS areas within this volume, which would require NFS and CIFS access. I am also considering the idea of creating an additional Qtree to maintain user's roaming profiles for the NT environment - which would require CIFs access only. I don't like the idea of doing this all in one volume (especially /vol/vol0), but it looks as if this is the route I will be taking unless someone has a better recommendation. Finally, how difficult, or is it even possible, to remove a Qtree? I didn't find anything in the SA Guide to do this. Thanks, Loren

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Filers and Extreme switches
by Peter Ellett 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

Hi all Has anyone experienced poor performance with Filers and Extreme Alpine or Black Diamond switches? If yes, any fixes or workarounds known? Pete Ellett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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inodes vs. snapshots
by DANIEL CHANEY 21 Dec '00

21 Dec '00

Hi, long time reader, first time poster, love your list, etc etc etc. Do max inode counts follow snapshots? That is, if I do a snapshot on Monday, increase the inode counts on Tuesday, wipe my files on Wednesday and bring things back from the snapshot on Thursday, do I still need to increase the inode count as I did on Tuesday? -dan

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RE: Problem on 840 Cluster..
by Fox, Adam 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

You'll need to floppy boot to the 1-5 menu (either using actual floppies or the PROM trick). Enter 5 to go into Maint. mode. Then from maint. mode you can rc_toggle_basic and use the vol rewrite_fsid command. toaster*> vol rewrite_fsid <vol_name> You only need to do this on 1 of the filers, but the cluster will have to be disabled while you do it. You can re-enable cf once both filers are up in normal mode. As stated before, feel free to call NetApp Support and have them walk you through the process. Hope this helps. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Bravo13S(a)netscape.net [mailto:Bravo13S@netscape.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:25 PM > To: PrJain(a)shastanets.com > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Problem on 840 Cluster.. > > > According to the /etc/messages.. your root volume has the same > FSID as another volume. This is why it could not do a takeover. > > > There is an rc_toggle_basic command that will give you a new > FSID.. BUT it is the a good ideal to open a case with Network > Appliance Tech Support. They can tell the complete step by step > process you need to do inorder to fix your problem. > If I remember correctly I think you will need to do a reboot..so > you might want to look at when your next downtime is available. > > Rgds > > > > Premanshu Jain <PrJain(a)shastanets.com> wrote: > > > > Feel toasters will be faster to help... > > Here is the description of my problem> > > > > > > I have an 840 cluster running 5.3.5H1 R2. When I initiate a > manual takeover > > from A, it successfully takes over B. However, the reverse > is not true. If I > > initiate a manual takeover from B (cf takeover) it fails > and tends to hang A > > in rebooting stage..Here are the typical error messages.. > > ___________________________________________ > > Here is the o/p when I initiate a manual takeover.. > > ___________________ > > Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [rc]: Cluster monitor: takeover > initiated by operat > > or > > Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: > takeover attempted after > > cf > > takeover command > > Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: UP --> TAKEOVER > > Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [cf_takeover]: Cluster monitor: > takeover started > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:04 PST [disk_admin]: Resetting all devices > on ISP2100 in > > slot 9 > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:12 PST [raid_disk_admin]: Root volume vol0 > has the same > > FSID as > > another volume on this system. > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST last message repeated 5 times > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [raid_disk_admin]: RAID takeover > failed: Partner > > disk la > > bel processing failed! > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [cf_takeover]: Cluster monitor: > takeover during raid > > fai > > led; takeover cancelled > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [cf_takeover]: Cluster monitor: > takeover failed > > 'unable > > to start partner' > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [cf_giveback]: Cluster monitor: > giveback started > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [disk_admin]: Resetting all devices > on ISP2100 in > > slot 8 > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [disk_admin]: Resetting all devices > on ISP2100 in > > slot 9 > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:14 PST [asup_main]: Cluster Notification mail sent > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:20 PST [cf_giveback]: Cluster monitor: > giveback completed > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:20 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: TAKEOVER --> UP > > Tue Dec 19 16:32:20 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: partner > not responding > > bot> cf status > > Waiting for store to recover. > > bot has disabled takeover by store (unsynchronized log) > > ________________________ > > > > Other Question : > > I can't use the Windows Hyperterminal keyboard, when > console is pluged > > directly to com port of a windows PC. I was able to do it > earlier..but not > > now.. > > > > > > prem > > Premanshu Jain > > Nortel Networks, Content Networks(Shasta) > > 2305, Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA 95054 > > Direct: (408) 565-3573 ESN: 655-3573 > > eMail: prjain(a)shastanets.com Web: > > http://www.nortelnetworks.com/ipservices > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at > http://webmail.netscape.com/ >

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Problem on 840 Cluster..
by Premanshu Jain 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

Feel toasters will be faster to help... Here is the description of my problem> I have an 840 cluster running 5.3.5H1 R2. When I initiate a manual takeover from A, it successfully takes over B. However, the reverse is not true. If I initiate a manual takeover from B (cf takeover) it fails and tends to hang A in rebooting stage..Here are the typical error messages.. ___________________________________________ Here is the o/p when I initiate a manual takeover.. ___________________ Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [rc]: Cluster monitor: takeover initiated by operat or Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: takeover attempted after cf takeover command Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: UP --> TAKEOVER Tue Dec 19 16:31:52 PST [cf_takeover]: Cluster monitor: takeover started Tue Dec 19 16:32:04 PST [disk_admin]: Resetting all devices on ISP2100 in slot 9 Tue Dec 19 16:32:12 PST [raid_disk_admin]: Root volume vol0 has the same FSID as another volume on this system. Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST last message repeated 5 times Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [raid_disk_admin]: RAID takeover failed: Partner disk la bel processing failed! Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [cf_takeover]: Cluster monitor: takeover during raid fai led; takeover cancelled Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [cf_takeover]: Cluster monitor: takeover failed 'unable to start partner' Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [cf_giveback]: Cluster monitor: giveback started Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [disk_admin]: Resetting all devices on ISP2100 in slot 8 Tue Dec 19 16:32:13 PST [disk_admin]: Resetting all devices on ISP2100 in slot 9 Tue Dec 19 16:32:14 PST [asup_main]: Cluster Notification mail sent Tue Dec 19 16:32:20 PST [cf_giveback]: Cluster monitor: giveback completed Tue Dec 19 16:32:20 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: TAKEOVER --> UP Tue Dec 19 16:32:20 PST [cf_main]: Cluster monitor: partner not responding bot> cf status Waiting for store to recover. bot has disabled takeover by store (unsynchronized log) ________________________ Other Question : I can't use the Windows Hyperterminal keyboard, when console is pluged directly to com port of a windows PC. I was able to do it earlier..but not now.. prem Premanshu Jain Nortel Networks, Content Networks(Shasta) 2305, Mission College Blvd, Santa Clara, CA 95054 Direct: (408) 565-3573 ESN: 655-3573 eMail: prjain(a)shastanets.com Web: http://www.nortelnetworks.com/ipservices

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RE: 2 questions for f760
by Sam Schorr 20 Dec '00

20 Dec '00

Is this really, possibly, wonderfully true??!! Which version of ONTAP fixed this? The reason I ask is that on all our filers (mostly F760 and some F840's), the total number of folders at any one directory level was a function of the inode limit of a 2 bit, unsigned pointer - thus limited it to just under 65k directories at any one level. Since we have 9.5 million user directories spread across those filers, we had to write scripts to check when that threshold was being reached to create a new one. We would just LOVE to hear that this limit has been removed! -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Sterling Woodcock [mailto:sirbruce@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:41 AM To: neil lehrer; toasters Subject: Re: 2 questions for f760 ----- Original Message ----- From: "neil lehrer" <nlehrer(a)ibb.gov> To: "toasters" <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:25 AM Subject: 2 questions for f760 > hi, > > 1. we will be moving our home and share dirs from old sun boxes to > f760. the home dirs on the suns were set up like: > > \home > \home\a > \home\a\abe > \home\a\allen > \home\b > > etc. in other words, user homedirs under the first letter of the id. i > was told this was done for performance reasons, inode searching, on the > sun boxes. > > do i need to use this structure on the 760? is there a similar issue on > filers? or can it just be \home\userid? Unless you're talking 100,000 entries or so, it can be \home\userid. NTAP implemented a large directory performance enhancement a long time ago that could handle 10s of thousands of entries, and the 760 is many, many times faster than that. If you want to read the old paper, though: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3006.html Given the filesystem enhancements since then they may even have gone to b-trees by now. Bruce

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toasters December 2000