toasters December 1999

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

100 participants
81 discussions

RE: toasters and auto negotiation
by Walsh, Warren (MN65) 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

Along these lines, we had some very interesting problems when we started migrating from FDDI to Fast Ethernet. Our filers were on FDDI, connected to a FDDI card in a Cabletron SS9000, which had a FDDI-Ethernet bridge. There were a number of SGI and HPs on the Ethernet backbone that had NFS mouting problems with the filers. The Suns and PCs were OK. We finally forced the MTU on the filers' FDDI interface to 1500, and the problem went away. That sure sounds like the Cabletron packet fragmentation problem you described. We've just finished replacing our older FDDI hubs (CTRN MMAC8s) with Fast Ethernet switches (CTRN SS6000), and changing the filers from FDDI to 100BaseT. Everything is now on one switched Ethernet network, and seems OK (knock, knock). -warren -----Original Message----- From: mds(a)gbnet.net [mailto:mds@gbnet.net] Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 1:22 PM To: Walsh, Warren (MN65); toasters Subject: RE: toasters and auto negotiation On Fri 17 Dec, 1999, "Walsh, Warren (MN65)" <Walsh_Warren(a)htc.honeywell.com> wrote: > We recently converted our 330 and 540 from FDDI to 100BaseT. We found that > we had to manually force both the 100BaseT card in the toaster and the > specific port on our Cabletron Smart Switch 9000 to 100BaseT-FD. For the > 100BaseT card, it was simply changing the auto to 100tx-fd: > > ifconfig e5 `hostname`-e5 mediatype 100tx-fd netmask 255.255.248.0 > > Funny how that auto-negotiation thing never really works, and how much it > really affects performance. Funny, I was only talking with a friend today about how autonegotiation between Sun's and Ciscos works fine, and how Cabletron kit has such irritatingly non-functional autonegotiation in contrast. In my last job, running any number of Su's, SGI's and NetApp's using Cabletron switches the network guys and I always went hunting for the ports where the collisions were high and the autonegotiation had been left on, or turned back on.. As policy we decided to pin both ends to 100BaseTX-fd no-autonegotiation, because anything else was markedly less effective. This wasn't the only problem we had with Cabletron kit though - there were some horrors with the spanning tree reconfigurations, and pakcet fragmentation, and adjacent switches somehow bollixing sets of ports on other switches. Put me right off Cabletron as a networking equipment vendor I have to say. YMMV. I always quite liked FDDI: most of our filers were on FDDI and, perhaps because of the extra smarts in the cards, the performance was always pretty darned good. We even got our biggest machines their own Gigaswitch ports - though I never figured out if the cards (DEC cards in NetApp, DEC gigaswitch) went into the full-duplex mode that the DEC network engineers though they might be able to do when plugged straight into the Gigaswitch. Sure made cabling in the machine room easier using FDDI too. Until they put decent amounts of structured wiring in. > -warren > > Warren Walsh > Honeywell Technology Center >-- End of excerpt from "Walsh, Warren (MN65)" -- -Mark ... an Englishman in London ...

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Re: toasters and auto negotiation
by Steve Armijo 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

On Fri, Dec 17, 1999 at 12:07:10PM -0600, Mark D Fowle wrote: > Lee, > > When I set the following: > > ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 > ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 remove the above line, mediatype shouldn't be needed when configging gigabit. > timezone US/Eastern > rc_toggle_basic > alttune e7 LinkNegotiation 1 > alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 remove the above 2 lines > alttune 1 LinkNegotiation 1 > rc_toggle_basic > route add default <mydefaultgateway> 1 > routed on once you make those edits try to reboot and see what happens. if that doesnt work , try removing the last alttune statement. it may be unnecessary and would appear to be the only one with correct syntax. -s -- Cue the music, fade to black, no such thing as no payback. -PWEI [ armijo(a)cs.unm.edu ]

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Re: your mail
by Steve Armijo 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

On Thu, Dec 16, 1999 at 06:24:04AM -0600, Mark D Fowle wrote: > come up on line. My work > around at the present time is to pull the gigabit cable out of the flier then > putting it back on. This seems to > "wake-up" the connection. I have not been able to figure our exactly whats > going on and our network > Notice the 0.0.0.0 for adding > the default, "default" stopped working --- hmmm, haven't seen this before, interesting. i prefer to put the actual names in the route statement. the same goes for ifconfig, i really don't like the `hostname` kludge. > ---------rc file ---------- > hostname filer1 > ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 > ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 you shouldn't need a mediatype for gigabit. this second line seems extraneous. i don't see that it actually accomplishes anything. and if you pull up the man page for ifconfig you'll see something like: "auto" (Auto RJ-45 twisted-pair) which isn't really anything like gigabit. > route add 0.0.0.0 <our gateway> 1 > routed on > rc_toggle_basic > alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 how many gigabit cards do you have in this filer? also the format of this i think is wrong. i have found that the filers actually want the number of the card in order starting from 0. e3 would be 0 and e7 would be 1. so it you want to set LinkNegotiation for the gigabit card in slot 3 it would be alttune 0 LinkNegotiation 1. i have only ever seen it work in one situation, but as always YMMV. this could also be what is causing a hang... > rc_toggle_basic > ypset < our dns server> > rc_toggle_basic you leave your filer up in rc_toggle_basic mode? scary. -s -- Cue the music, fade to black, no such thing as no payback. -PWEI [ armijo(a)cs.unm.edu ]

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Re: your mail
by Mark D Fowle 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

It does -- I think he didn't see the command in there twice - Mark tkaczma(a)gryf.net on 12/17/99 01:24:00 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com@INTERNET cc: (bcc: Mark D. Fowle/0V/Caterpillar) Subject: Re: your mail Retain Until: 01/16/2000 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Steve Armijo wrote: > this could also be what is causing a hang... > > > rc_toggle_basic > > ypset < our dns server> > > rc_toggle_basic > > you leave your filer up in rc_toggle_basic mode? scary. Is that right? I thought that the second rc_toggle_basic turned off the priviledged mode. Tom

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RE: toasters and auto negotiation
by Walsh, Warren (MN65) 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

We recently converted our 330 and 540 from FDDI to 100BaseT. We found that we had to manually force both the 100BaseT card in the toaster and the specific port on our Cabletron Smart Switch 9000 to 100BaseT-FD. For the 100BaseT card, it was simply changing the auto to 100tx-fd: ifconfig e5 `hostname`-e5 mediatype 100tx-fd netmask 255.255.248.0 Funny how that auto-negotiation thing never really works, and how much it really affects performance. -warren Warren Walsh Honeywell Technology Center -----Original Message----- From: Mark D Fowle [mailto:Fowle_Mark_D@CAT.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:24 AM To: toasters Cc: Bruce A Seelinger Subject: Has anyone experienced the following problem - When my F740 reboots it will not come up on line. My work around at the present time is to pull the gigabit cable out of the flier then putting it back on. This seems to "wake-up" the connection. I have not been able to figure our exactly whats going on and our network administrator has looked at the Cisco 5505 on a wsx5403 (a 3 port gigabit) -- Notice the 0.0.0.0 for adding the default, "default" stopped working --- ---------rc file ---------- #Auto-generated by setup Mon Oct 18 07:53:04 EDT 1999 hostname filer1 ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 timezone US/Eastern route add 0.0.0.0 <our gateway> 1 routed on rc_toggle_basic alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 rc_toggle_basic ypset < our dns server> rc_toggle_basic savecore exportfs -av nfs on

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RE: toasters and auto negotiation
by Mark D Fowle 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

I have to use auto for our mediatype with our gigabit -- if we try to force it to 1000tx it wont work ---- Walsh_Warren(a)htc.honeywell.com on 12/17/99 01:00:00 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com@INTERNET cc: (bcc: Mark D. Fowle/0V/Caterpillar) Subject: RE: toasters and auto negotiation Retain Until: 01/16/2000 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports We recently converted our 330 and 540 from FDDI to 100BaseT. We found that we had to manually force both the 100BaseT card in the toaster and the specific port on our Cabletron Smart Switch 9000 to 100BaseT-FD. For the 100BaseT card, it was simply changing the auto to 100tx-fd: ifconfig e5 `hostname`-e5 mediatype 100tx-fd netmask 255.255.248.0 Funny how that auto-negotiation thing never really works, and how much it really affects performance. -warren Warren Walsh Honeywell Technology Center -----Original Message----- From: Mark D Fowle [mailto:Fowle_Mark_D@CAT.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:24 AM To: toasters Cc: Bruce A Seelinger Subject: Has anyone experienced the following problem - When my F740 reboots it will not come up on line. My work around at the present time is to pull the gigabit cable out of the flier then putting it back on. This seems to "wake-up" the connection. I have not been able to figure our exactly whats going on and our network administrator has looked at the Cisco 5505 on a wsx5403 (a 3 port gigabit) -- Notice the 0.0.0.0 for adding the default, "default" stopped working --- ---------rc file ---------- #Auto-generated by setup Mon Oct 18 07:53:04 EDT 1999 hostname filer1 ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 timezone US/Eastern route add 0.0.0.0 <our gateway> 1 routed on rc_toggle_basic alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 rc_toggle_basic ypset < our dns server> rc_toggle_basic savecore exportfs -av nfs on

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RE: toasters and auto negotiation
by Mark D Fowle 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

Lee, When I set the following: ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 timezone US/Eastern rc_toggle_basic alttune e7 LinkNegotiation 1 alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 alttune 1 LinkNegotiation 1 rc_toggle_basic route add default <mydefaultgateway> 1 routed on What this does during boot is it locks up (no data or link light on the gigabit) If I manually remove the cable and then reconnect it (A manual force) it appears that everything is ok then. Is the problem the alteon (sp?) card doing negotiation or something entirely different ? Mark Fowle IS/CAT-BCP Metahpase/Oracle/Unix Administration lrazo(a)netapp.com on 12/17/99 12:54:00 PM To: Walsh_Warren@htc.honeywell.com@INTERNET cc: toasters@mathworks.com@INTERNET (bcc: Mark D. Fowle/0V/Caterpillar) Subject: RE: toasters and auto negotiation Retain Until: 01/16/2000 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports Hi Warren, Were you using autonegotiation against full duplex? If so, that isn't going to work by the specs for auto-negotiation. I think the designers of the protocol assumed if your nic (or switch port) was too old to support autonegotiation, then it was to old to support full duplex. So auto <--> half works and auto <--> auto works but auto <--> full won't by specification. That is my understanding, at least. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. --Lee On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Walsh, Warren (MN65) wrote: > We recently converted our 330 and 540 from FDDI to 100BaseT. We found that > we had to manually force both the 100BaseT card in the toaster and the > specific port on our Cabletron Smart Switch 9000 to 100BaseT-FD. For the > 100BaseT card, it was simply changing the auto to 100tx-fd: > > ifconfig e5 `hostname`-e5 mediatype 100tx-fd netmask 255.255.248.0 > > Funny how that auto-negotiation thing never really works, and how much it > really affects performance. > > -warren > > Warren Walsh > Honeywell Technology Center > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D Fowle [mailto:Fowle_Mark_D@CAT.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:24 AM > To: toasters > Cc: Bruce A Seelinger > Subject: > > > Has anyone experienced the following problem - When my F740 reboots it will > not > come up on line. My work > around at the present time is to pull the gigabit cable out of the flier > then > putting it back on. This seems to > "wake-up" the connection. I have not been able to figure our exactly whats > going on and our network > administrator has looked at the Cisco 5505 on a wsx5403 (a 3 port gigabit) > -- > Notice the 0.0.0.0 for adding > the default, "default" stopped working --- > > ---------rc file ---------- > #Auto-generated by setup Mon Oct 18 07:53:04 EDT 1999 > hostname filer1 > ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 > ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 > timezone US/Eastern > route add 0.0.0.0 <our gateway> 1 > routed on > rc_toggle_basic > alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 > rc_toggle_basic > ypset < our dns server> > rc_toggle_basic > savecore > exportfs -av > nfs on > --- Lee Razo (lrazo(a)netapp.com) Network Appliance Europe Hoofddorp, Netherlands "We are going to thank our bottoms tonight just for being there" -Femi Kuti

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RE:
by John Gaines 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

If you are using a CISCO switch, this may be the cause. You have your media type set to auto. Netapp and Cisco do not negotiate well together. My suggestion would be to force the NIC to full duplex and force the port on the switch also. Also, i have never used 0.0.0.0 to specify "default" before. I am also curious as to what LinkNegotiation does? John Gaines I2 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com > [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Mark D Fowle > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:24 AM > To: toasters > Cc: Bruce A Seelinger > Subject: > > > Has anyone experienced the following problem - When my F740 > reboots it will not > come up on line. My work > around at the present time is to pull the gigabit cable out of > the flier then > putting it back on. This seems to > "wake-up" the connection. I have not been able to figure our > exactly whats > going on and our network > administrator has looked at the Cisco 5505 on a wsx5403 (a 3 > port gigabit) -- > Notice the 0.0.0.0 for adding > the default, "default" stopped working --- > > ---------rc file ---------- > #Auto-generated by setup Mon Oct 18 07:53:04 EDT 1999 > hostname filer1 > ifconfig e7 `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 > ifconfig e7 mediatype auto `hostname`-e7 netmask 255.255.255.0 > timezone US/Eastern > route add 0.0.0.0 <our gateway> 1 > routed on > rc_toggle_basic > alttune e3 LinkNegotiation 1 > rc_toggle_basic > ypset < our dns server> > rc_toggle_basic > savecore > exportfs -av > nfs on >

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RE:
by johnj.sasso＠ps.ge.com 17 Dec '99

17 Dec '99

We've had the same problem as well with our F740s w/ 100BT. This problem with autonegotiation is neither particular to NetApp nor Cisco. We have SGIs, Suns, and HPs that also have had problems with autonegotiation, and I've heard from others having similar problems with other non-Cisco network devices. The problem is that the autonegotation standard in IEEE (Cl. 28 of IEEE 802.3u, based on NWay scheme) is a bit vague, which results in vendors implementing autonegotiation in such a way that it tends to be incompatible with how other vendors implement it. An unfortunate fact of life. A good into to autonegotiation can be found at: http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/misc/NWay.html As for using 0.0.0.0 for the default gateway, that should be perfectly acceptable. --john -----Original Message----- From: Dane Jasper [mailto:dane@sonic.net] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:48 PM To: John Gaines; Mark D Fowle; toasters Subject: Re: On Thu, Dec 16, 1999 at 03:18:52PM -0600, John Gaines wrote: > If you are using a CISCO switch, this may be the cause. You have your media > type set to auto. Netapp and Cisco do not negotiate well together. My > suggestion would be to force the NIC to full duplex and force the port on > the switch also. Also, i have never used 0.0.0.0 to specify "default" > before. I am also curious as to what LinkNegotiation does? I've got an Extreme Networks Black Diamond switch, and our F230 won't auto-negotiate 100-BT-fd with that either. Of course, neither will our Cisco 7507. It's ironic that the two more important bits on my network won't negotiate their connection speeds, but lots of irrelevant little workstations will. -- Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc. (707)522-1000 mailto:dane@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/ Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53

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Thanks for the backup help
by Alan R. White 16 Dec '99

16 Dec '99

Many thanks to all those who responded to my questions about backup. In summary it would seem that if I'm going to have 500GB filesystems then nothing hokey is going to cut it - I need something to either manage a locally attached bunch of tape drives and an autoloader. The only viable alternative seems to be either dumps across rmt (or rsh) or NDMP to a host with a large bunch of tape drives in a larger library. Our enterprise backup product doesn't support any of scenarios yet. I need something cheap and cheerful to manage this for me. The dumps to tape are only for a complete filesystem recovery, we would run snapmirror to keep the users going while rebuilding a broken box. File level stuff I'll handle through a CIFS mount on an NT box where our backup client will run. This leads to 2 questions 1) Which cheap and cheerful product to take care of the dumps and which of the ways above? Remember the dumps are only for volume recovery. 2) Has anyone worked out what the right way to failback after cutting over to a snap mirror replica? I understand netapp are working to make it easier but right now it looks close to unworkable with large volumes of data. If there are clever answers here then would anyone take the risk of not having a volume level dump? TIA, Al

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toasters December 1999