toasters December 1999

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

100 participants
81 discussions

volcopy and snapmirror performance
by kevin graham 30 Dec '99

30 Dec '99

We're looking at moving 287gb (~10.7m inodes) worth of data from a 630 to a clean volume on a 760. To schedule the downtime, I need to know if anyone has ballpark figures for calculating the tiem for a volcopy. The filers are well connected (gbit ether on both of them), and I can sacrafice big chunks of performance to make this go in a timely manner. (the 100mbit interfaces are inactive as well, if those should just be strapped together) Later on, we're looking at trying to snapmirror 536gb (~17.2m inodes) spread pretty evenly across two volumes between two locations. Are there numbers available on the approximate overhead of the snapmirror protocol (delta bytes * overhead), and how often it would be feasible to run it (I'd prefer something in the neighborhood of 5-10 minutes). The best numbers I could find on NOW were "36GB/hr will drive the cpu to 100%" without any reference to the filer model, cache sizes (the filer does do read-aheads, right?), inode density, etc... thanks. ..kg..

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RE: "Wac"-ing the WAFL?
by Anders Ljungberg S (QDT) 30 Dec '99

30 Dec '99

We have 9 F760's in 3 clusters and 3 mirrors. They are all fully populated with shelfs ( 80 shelfs/~8TB in total ). I dont know the wack time because a never had to run a single one. The system was taken into production 9 months ago. So in our case it's not very common. Anders -----Original Message----- From: E Hunter [mailto:eric@gigaton.com] Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 4:28 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: "Wac"-ing the WAFL? How long does it take to wack a fully loaded 760? By fully loaded, I mean somewhere in the 1TB range, which I think is the upper limit of the 760.

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RE: "Wac"-ing the WAFL?
by Anders Ljungberg S (QDT) 30 Dec '99

30 Dec '99

This is my personal expirience from a heavy NFS Site. Which lead to replacing 2x7000/600 Auspex Netservers with a F740. To get realy good write performace lets say that you have to use atleast 7 drives/raidgroup.The performance raises up to lets say ~14. 7 drives without parity ( raid 4 or 5 ) is not verry funny considering the risk of a failing drive , restore times etc. So, in the Auspex case i had to go for mirrored stripes. ( Very bad price/performance and i finaly grew out of my cabinets ) On a filer i spend money on one "extra" drive instead of seven. The 740 is just cruising with the load which lead to the fall of the Netservers. Not to even mention the decreased need of administration. Anders Ljungberg As Jeff said, Netapp's RAID-4 implementation is not performance limiting in most cases. Most of the time a filer with RAID-4 will provide better performance than an equivalent product without RAID or with RAID-0. So I'm sure you will be quite pleased in your tests, particularly against a (*snicker*) Auspex. (Be sure to compare the price and number of filesystems in each system configuration as well.) I seem to recall some public talk waay back when about Netapp possibly offering RAID-0 since basically all you have to do is remove the parity drive. You could simulate this yourself by manually failing the parity drive and letting the filer operate in degraded mode with just the data disks. However, I'm not sure that the code is actually optimized for this case, so there might be some other normal RAID-4 checks that get in the way of realizing any performance gains. Bruce

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RE: Some fun things not to try at home
by Priebe, Jason 28 Dec '99

28 Dec '99

> Are you implying that you'd rather use 6 drives per shelf > rather than 7? No -- I'm just assuming that the 7th disk (the hot spare) is drawing little or no power. Perhaps this is a bad assumption. > > Is startup power the power required to "spin up" the > > disks? In that case, isn't that power only delivered once at boot > > time? > > In addition to this, if I remember correctly, the filer spins up disks > sequentially, so there shouldn't be more than one disk drawing startup > power at any one time. That's good to note. Jason Priebe WRAL OnLine http://www.wral-tv.com/

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RE: Some fun things not to try at home
by Priebe, Jason 27 Dec '99

27 Dec '99

Hmmm... that's interesting. I don't want to be foolhardy here, but I just checked the power requirements for the Seagate ST39173W (9GB Barracuda) drives and the ST15150W (4GB Barracuda) drives that are in the filer's shelf now. ST39173W ST15150W 12V startup 1.7 amps 2.18 12V typical 0.5 0.83 5V startup 1.2 amps 1.0 5V typical 0.75 0.75 It appears to me that, except for the 5V startup, the 9GB drives require _less_ power than the 4GB drives. Is the 5V startup the limiting factor? Can the power supply not deliver 1.2 amps at 5V to six drives? Is startup power the power required to "spin up" the disks? In that case, isn't that power only delivered once at boot time? Do the disks ever spin down in an active system? I really don't mean to be confrontational. We're just desperate to get some more life out of our F210 (we bought it new just two years ago). Jason Priebe WRAL OnLine http://www.wral-tv.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Bulfer, David [mailto:david.bulfer@netapp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 5:30 PM > To: 'Priebe, Jason'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Some fun things not to try at home > > > Please be careful. I do not believe that your StorageWorks > shelf has enough > power for 9G drives. Buying a new supply from Compaq would > not solve the > problem either. Your results could be quite unhappy. > > David Bulfer > Director of Platform Engineering > Network Appliance, Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Priebe, Jason [mailto:priebe@wral-tv.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 1:22 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Some fun things not to try at home > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bruce Sterling Woodcock [mailto:sirbruce@ix.netcom.com] > > If you find out something > > useful in your filer experience, plesae pass it along, even > if it's of > > the "I didn't read the manual, so I did this and it > crashed" variety. > > While we're airing dirty laundry -- a couple of months ago, I > mentioned > to the list that we wanted to try to replace our F210's 4GB SCSI disks > with 9GB disks (full shelf, no more shelves available from NetApp). > > I replaced two of the 4GB disks with 9GB ones, and all was well (of > course, the filer only used 4 of the 9GB, but we figured we'd dump > to tape, rebuild the file system, then restore once all the drives > were in place). > > So I'm opening the 3rd disk carrier, removing the flex circuit from > the disk drive (has anyone else ever tried to do this? How the #$%! > do you do it?) by prying with a screwdriver, and the screwdriver goes > right through the circuit. D'oh! > > I did find that I was able to call Compaq and order a new > circuit (only > $96 for that tiny little piece!). Still waiting on delivery, though. > I'll let you know how it goes. Wish I'd known you could still order > these parts -- I could have built a couple of my own carriers and had > them ready to go into the filer instead of failing a drive, > disassembling > the carrier, reassembling the carrier, and reinstalling. > > Jason Priebe > WRAL OnLine > http://www.wral-tv.com/ > >

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NFAS-1400
by Russell Murphy 27 Dec '99

27 Dec '99

I picked up a rack mount cabinet at the local electronic surplus and while looking it over to strip, I discovered it was a toaster. Before I cannibalize it, is there documentation available? Network Appliances' support pages appear to be customer only.

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Spam alert
by Clawson, Simon 27 Dec '99

27 Dec '99

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26 Dec '99

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RE: Some fun things not to try at home
by Bond, Andrew 23 Dec '99

23 Dec '99

Note that some disks are not labelled with WIDE SCSI; however the DEC part number may have "W" in it, eg: SHWHB-GB (but you can't rely on this either!). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-dl-toasters(a)netapp.com > [mailto:owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com]On Behalf Of Timothy A. McCarthy > Sent: 22 December 1999 22:14 > To: tkaczma(a)gryf.net > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Some fun things not to try at home > > > I've had this happen before... a long time ago anyway. > > Check the disk. In my case I tried to put a WIDE > SCSI disk into a narrow shelf. Result, not even recognized. > > Pulled it out, looked at the label, and in the wise > words of Homer Simpson said "Dogh!!" when I > read "4GB WIDE SCSI". > > --tmac > > tkaczma(a)gryf.net wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Bruce Sterling Woodcock wrote: > > > > > Some of the older drivers didn't > > > like one version of the StorageWorks container, but did work > > > in another, and we spent the rest of the night scrounging for > > > parts off other containers for the right disk container. :) > > > > Is that right. I just plugged in a brand spanking new > spare (well it's > > been on the shelf for a while) into a 330's shelf and the > disk was not > > detected even after several tries (a defective spare?). I > pop a different > > disk in and it is detected immediately. I wonder whether > that was the > > problem, whether the shelf is becomming flakey, oe whether > it was simply a > > bad spare. > > > > Tom > > -- > ******All New Numbers!!!****** > ************* ************* > > Timothy A. McCarthy --> System Engineer, Eastern Region > Network Appliance http://www.netapp.com > 240-268-2034 Office \ / Page Me at: > 240-268-2002 Fax \/ 888-971-4468 > > > >

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RE: Some fun things not to try at home
by Priebe, Jason 23 Dec '99

23 Dec '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Sterling Woodcock [mailto:sirbruce@ix.netcom.com] > If you find out something > useful in your filer experience, plesae pass it along, even if it's of > the "I didn't read the manual, so I did this and it crashed" variety. While we're airing dirty laundry -- a couple of months ago, I mentioned to the list that we wanted to try to replace our F210's 4GB SCSI disks with 9GB disks (full shelf, no more shelves available from NetApp). I replaced two of the 4GB disks with 9GB ones, and all was well (of course, the filer only used 4 of the 9GB, but we figured we'd dump to tape, rebuild the file system, then restore once all the drives were in place). So I'm opening the 3rd disk carrier, removing the flex circuit from the disk drive (has anyone else ever tried to do this? How the #$%! do you do it?) by prying with a screwdriver, and the screwdriver goes right through the circuit. D'oh! I did find that I was able to call Compaq and order a new circuit (only $96 for that tiny little piece!). Still waiting on delivery, though. I'll let you know how it goes. Wish I'd known you could still order these parts -- I could have built a couple of my own carriers and had them ready to go into the filer instead of failing a drive, disassembling the carrier, reassembling the carrier, and reinstalling. Jason Priebe WRAL OnLine http://www.wral-tv.com/

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toasters December 1999