My Oberservations:
ZFS is arguably an immature straight up WAFL clone. No performance numbers, and mixed anecdotal reviews. Not saying I don't like it or use(I do, you can do very cool things with it and zones) but ZFS + Computer != a NetApp filer.
I Don't know if ZFS it's a *technical* patent violation, but this part of the drama is very Netscape vs. Microsoft; not much SCO involved here.
Open Standards are a good thing, but this isn't a debate about standards. It's a debate about code and patents. NFS is a standard, WAFL and ZFS are not.
I think Open Source is a great thing; but CDDL is not exactly free as in freedom open source.
I think NetApp is doing to Sun what Sun did to Azul... They may not have meant to do that, but I do think Storage Tek lawyers were the first to kick the hornets nest; Most companies with IP portfolios will get more agressive with them when a company is being "dressed" for sale. I think Sun's tone deaf legal team compounded the error; I don't think they realized that NetApp is not like Azul... They have teeth and will bite back.
NetApp has been very open about posting their legal documents and filings... Sun has not. Maybe this is just inertia, and they'll throw something up soon enough, but I would be interested in seeing how they compare with Schwartz's postings.
Regards, Max
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Leeds, Daniel Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 12:24 PM To: Glenn Walker; Brian Dunbar; No More Linux!; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: The End of All Filers?
wafl vs zfs is an interesting debate but there are alot more products and technologies we use from NetApp that aids our business and lowers our support costs and administrative overhead. Think snapvault, snapmirror, flexclone, etc etc.
I am not sure I would want to buy some cheap equipment from vendor a, cheap drives from vendor b, install o/s + zfs support and now have to manage/tune/secure/etc said environment and provide the same level and reliability I currently have with our netapp infrastructure.
I have done all of that in the past soup to nuts and while it can lower budget and dollars spent cost it has the opposite effect on administrative and people costs--unless of course you "open source" your IT staff to a third world country. There is always a cost somewhere.
-- Daniel Leeds Manager, Storage Operations Edmunds, Inc. 1620 26th Street, Suite 400 South Santa Monica, CA 90404
310-309-4999 desk 310-430-0536 cell
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of Glenn Walker Sent: Thu 10/25/2007 12:05 PM To: Brian Dunbar; No More Linux!; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: The End of All Filers?
ZFS is a good thing - no argument
Open Standards are a good thing - agreed, and NetApp works very hard to follow many of them (and to help develop a few)
Cheaper and More Capable hardware is a good thing - yup. Sun servers aren't exactly 'commodity' though.
Lower Operating Costs are a good thing - agreed. NetApp is wonderful for lowering TCO.
It seems that NetApp, especially when compared to EMC/Hitachi/HP/ETC, does a great job at 'adopting to reality' and aggressively pricing things and providing innovation. At the same time, the point could be made that Linux on commodity hardware is more along the lines of reality (on the 4 points you mentioned) than Solaris on SUN hardware - and as a result, perhaps SUN could use a little bit of the medicine required to 'adopt to reality' as well...
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From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Brian Dunbar Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 2:21 PM To: No More Linux!; toasters@mathworks.com Subject: RE: The End of All Filers?
I have no opinion nor expertise on the legal issues.
From an operations perspective ..
ZFS is a good thing. Open standards are a good thing. Cheaper and more capable hardware is a good thing. Lower operating costs are a good thing.
NetApp needs to adapt to reality.
Brian Dunbar Systems Administrator Plexus Desk: (920) 751-3364 Cell: (920) 716-2027
-----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com on behalf of No More Linux! Sent: Thu 10/25/2007 9:31 AM To: toasters@mathworks.com Subject: The End of All Filers?