RE: AW: Consistency Point Type M

Did you guys ever figure out what was causing these/correct this issue.

I am seeing what sounds like the same thing on a 3240 , however..

When I enable the counters

Wafl_memory_used Wafl_memory_free Walf_bufs_available Wafl_bufs_available_for_cp

I do not see anything that indicates low bufs.

--Jordan

From: toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Mohler Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:02 AM To: Alexander Griesser Cc: toasters@teaparty.net Subject: Re: AW: Consistency Point Type M

Sure. Had to be it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Alexander Griesser <ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at> wrote: Well, actually I was seeing high CPU usage and degraded performance, so this type of workload must have triggered a bottleneck somewhere…

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: Jeff Mohler [mailto:speedtoys.racing@gmail.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 03. Dezember 2013 16:12 An: Alexander Griesser Cc: Maarten Lippmann; toasters@teaparty.netmailto:toasters@teaparty.net Betreff: Re: Consistency Point Type M

Not sure there is anything to 'blame'. Its just an earlier CP event than via timer or volume.

If you had M's with B's, ya..bottleneck.

On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Alexander Griesser <ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at> wrote: Hi all,

thanks for your valuable insights and suggestions. I’ve read several times now that the 3240s with Flash Cache or the 3240s itself are very low on RAM, but I doubt there’s a way to add more RAM to these boxes to mitigate this potential bottleneck, or am I wrong? I think it would be the cheapest option if lack of RAM is to blame for these M cp types – but then, it’s all about how the storage components come into play with each other so I think adding more RAM will possibly just not help at all on this hardware or cause other problems, right?

Actually, this is not the „new workload“ on this system, it was a one timer and I already talked to the customer about that and he said he was doing something unusual due to lack of time and wanted to restore multiple databases for test purposes to save time for him doing it compared to restoring them sequentially, which is where the big write workload came from.

So for now, I think I will not open a case since this was an unusual workload and should not happen again and if the customer lets it happen again, he’s aware of the fact that the storage performance might degrade during that kind of workload which he’s apparently fine with right now.

Thanks,

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320tel:%2B43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500tel:%2B43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net [mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.netmailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net] Im Auftrag von Maarten Lippmann Gesendet: Dienstag, 03. Dezember 2013 03:44 An: toasters@teaparty.netmailto:toasters@teaparty.net

Betreff: Re: Consistency Point Type M

+1 on not touching minra after 8.0.

At this point it's a deprecated option that no longer does good, and can do (not too much, but measurable performance) harm.

As a matter of fact, 7MTT nowadays will remove it from volumes migrated to cDOT from 7G for this very reason.

3240s running 8.0+ with PAM cards are very low on RAM available to wafl, so open a case as suggested, it's the most likely bottleneck in your new workload triggering these Ms.

WAFL can eat into mbuff reserved RAM if need be, but not vice versa (similar to snapshots being able to use space outside of snap reserve but not vice versa) so if wafl is needing more ram than normal, the available mbuff RAM is going to shrink, increasing the likelihood of running out of mbufs.

Maarten On 12/1/2013 12:57 PM, aprilogi wrote: Hello All:

Hey wait, unless you are using something lower than 7.3X, minra isn’t likely to do much for you.

NetApp changed and added in many new memory algorithms staring in Data ONTAP 7.3. All these algorithms work under the hood and aren’t documented but they misty make any use of minra obsolete. By 8.0, if minra does anything, it is likely your imagination. Minra with 7.3 might help in cases where you have very large random reads but other wise, it shouldn’t help at all. And yes, minra means minimum read ahead. Early versions of Data ONTAP would assume that when you needed a block of data, you would soon need other blocks that were likely adjacent so it would read a large set of blocks into memory. That changed drastically with Data ONTAP 7.3

For backup jobs, the pollution cache control algorithm should detect the behavior and prevent long reads with would elevate the need for minra. I would be very suspicious is minra actual worked. It is more likely that Alexander’s customer thought it worked.

Looking at KB 3012539 (kb.netapp.comhttp://kb.netapp.com) M CP caused by low mbufs; writes data to the disk in order to prevent an out-of-memory buffer situation F after the M means flushing modified data to disk n after the M means flushing normal files

Since you have a Flash card and since you memory is sized with your system, it is likely that you are simply running into the limitations for this storage system. And adding to this would be that you were alerted that your CPU usage was hight. It would take a lot more analysis to know for sure.

—April

On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Alexander Griesser <ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at> wrote:

Hi Sebastian,

sorry for my late reply, got distracted.

Thanks for the useful information, will look into it and work out some possible changes on the volume settings with the customer, maybe that helps in this regard.

Bye,

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320tel:%2B43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500tel:%2B43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: Sebastian Goetze [mailto:spgoetze@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. November 2013 11:17 An: Alexander Griesser; toasters@teaparty.netmailto:toasters@teaparty.net Betreff: Re: Consistency Point Type M

So I see, that this was not the typical workload...

I suggested minra, because it solved a similar problem at one of my students company (I'm a NetApp instructor): Volume was used as backup target for TSM, lot's of Buffer related CPs, bad performance. Since it didn't make any sense to try and 'read ahead' (and was suggested by NetApp), they turned it off on this volume. Solved the performance problem (and the buffer-related CPs)...

Extents are good for certain databases, 'space_optimized' is a setting that balances space usage and performance...

Since the 3240 doesn't have a lot of memory, FlexShare settings (e.g. Cache policies) that give ONTAP hints on how to use it's memory most efficiently (and where not to waste it) might also prove helpful. E.g. minimizing FlashCache for volumes where it's not needed (e.g. Log-Volumes). Hint: you can dynamically set and re-set these policies.

Hope that helps

Sebastian

On 11/27/2013 10:21 AM, Alexander Griesser wrote: Hi Sebastian,

well, in this particular case, the client was doing some heavy database restore operations, so it was mostly write. I guess „minra“ stands for minimal read ahead, right? Didn’t try that yet – no_atime_update is set to off and I haven’t changed that – but it probably makes sense to set that on volumes containing only LUNs, so I guess at least activating no_atime_update can’t hurt in this case, right?

Maybe it would help if I knew what the M stands for to better understand what’s going on and what’s the cause for that… So right now I’m just guessing and changing options on the volumes without knowing the possible impacts can turn out bad :-/

Can you explain why you would suggest to turn on minra and change extent to space_optimized?

Thanks,

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320tel:%2B43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500tel:%2B43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: Sebastian Goetze [mailto:spgoetze@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. November 2013 10:15 An: Alexander Griesser; toasters@teaparty.netmailto:toasters@teaparty.net Betreff: Re: Consistency Point Type M

Hi Alexander,

hmmmm. Only ISCSI. Lot's of writing, hardly reading.

Did you try (or evaluate) setting 'minra on' on the volumes that are active? And 'no_atime_update on'? Maybe 'extent space_optimized', if applicable? (random write followed by sequential read)

Just some ideas...

Sebastian

On 11/27/2013 9:38 AM, Alexander Griesser wrote: Good morning,

does anyone know what consistency point type M is and what’s causing it? I was getting them yesterday on one of my 3240s, 8.1.3P1, it has a Flash Cache Card installed if that’s relevant for this problem. I was alerted by OnCommand Core about high CPU usage on this filer.

*> sysstat -x 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Total Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache Cache CP CP Disk OTHER FCP iSCSI FCP kB/s iSCSI kB/s in out read write read write age hit time ty util in out in out 94% 0 0 0 1122 282622 5880 24406 398932 0 0 5s 99% 99% Mf 45% 0 0 1122 0 0 271544 0 93% 0 0 0 1225 286280 5973 21928 366135 0 0 5s 99% 96% Ms 44% 0 0 1225 0 0 275276 0 87% 0 0 0 1422 316299 6638 24652 243511 0 0 5s 99% 85% Mn 31% 5 0 1417 0 0 303576 0 93% 0 0 0 1018 228505 4797 27948 376695 0 0 5s 99% 87% Mf 41% 0 0 1018 0 0 219500 0 94% 0 0 0 1271 280539 5900 24036 267711 0 0 5s 99% 76% Mn 27% 0 0 1271 0 0 269419 0 91% 0 0 0 1177 271879 5717 28680 312704 0 0 5s 99% 77% M 38% 0 0 1177 0 0 261226 0 94% 0 0 0 1186 264471 5563 29846 352275 0 0 5s 99% 82% Ms 38% 0 0 1186 0 0 254111 0 92% 0 0 0 1369 297761 6271 22447 233291 0 0 5s 99% 79% Mn 30% 5 0 1364 0 0 285898 0 92% 0 0 0 1123 255828 5368 23300 367620 0 0 5s 99% 83% Mf 40% 0 0 1123 0 0 246068 0 91% 0 0 0 1201 272685 5722 26273 292545 0 0 5s 99% 77% Mn 37% 0 0 1201 0 0 261885 0 92% 0 0 0 1355 293194 6145 27210 273654 0 0 5s 99% 76% Mn 33% 83 0 1272 0 0 282260 0 94% 0 0 0 1011 234096 4915 24933 352155 0 0 5s 99% 81% Mn 37% 0 0 1011 0 0 224053 0 90% 0 0 0 1211 275554 5789 36624 285552 0 0 5s 98% 80% Mn 33% 5 0 1206 0 0 264635 0 89% 0 0 0 1325 294916 6197 21227 309395 0 0 5s 99% 78% M 30% 0 0 1325 0 0 283356 0 90% 0 0 0 1134 258937 5429 26731 379776 0 0 5s 98% 84% Mf 42% 0 0 1134 0 0 248736 0 91% 0 0 0 1271 283024 5960 29953 241203 0 0 5s 99% 65% Mn 28% 0 0 1271 0 0 272128 0 90% 0 0 0 1357 287545 6030 29769 329507 0 0 5s 99% 84% Mf 31% 0 0 1357 0 0 275694 0 92% 0 0 0 1265 271400 5695 18026 349410 0 0 9s 99% 84% Ms 39% 6 0 1259 0 0 260907 0 90% 0 0 0 1228 285091 5995 27944 256361 0 0 9s 99% 72% Mn 30% 0 0 1228 0 0 273977 0

*> sysstat -M 1 ANY1+ ANY2+ ANY3+ ANY4+ AVG CPU0 CPU1 CPU2 CPU3 Network Protocol Cluster Storage Raid Target Kahuna WAFL_Ex(Kahu) WAFL_XClean SM_Exempt Cifs Exempt Intr Host Ops/s CP 97% 86% 65% 39% 74% 73% 76% 75% 71% 31% 0% 0% 18% 25% 18% 17% 121%( 68%) 12% 0% 0% 41% 5% 7% 8717 50% 94% 79% 54% 25% 66% 68% 68% 69% 59% 38% 0% 0% 16% 20% 20% 12% 104%( 64%) 2% 0% 0% 37% 5% 10% 8336 67% 98% 89% 72% 44% 78% 80% 81% 80% 70% 31% 0% 0% 17% 30% 17% 12% 127%( 73%) 15% 0% 0% 51% 5% 6% 8099 67% 96% 83% 65% 41% 75% 77% 77% 79% 67% 30% 0% 0% 17% 28% 16% 11% 120%( 71%) 14% 0% 0% 46% 4% 14% 7461 49% 94% 78% 52% 24% 65% 65% 66% 65% 62% 37% 0% 0% 15% 15% 20% 13% 117%( 65%) 0% 0% 0% 27% 6% 8% 9042 33% 96% 84% 67% 42% 74% 76% 78% 78% 64% 31% 0% 0% 17% 29% 16% 9% 112%( 66%) 13% 0% 0% 58% 4% 6% 7642 83% 97% 84% 61% 39% 72% 74% 72% 74% 68% 39% 0% 0% 16% 25% 16% 14% 116%( 70%) 13% 0% 0% 40% 4% 6% 7811 34% 94% 78% 55% 28% 67% 69% 70% 70% 60% 36% 0% 0% 16% 19% 20% 12% 113%( 63%) 2% 0% 0% 33% 5% 12% 9018 51% 96% 85% 66% 40% 73% 76% 77% 78% 62% 34% 0% 0% 17% 28% 17% 7% 123%( 72%) 14% 0% 0% 44% 5% 6% 7926 78% 96% 84% 64% 37% 72% 73% 74% 75% 67% 34% 0% 0% 16% 25% 17% 14% 118%( 68%) 14% 0% 0% 41% 5% 6% 7682 69% 95% 83% 63% 38% 72% 72% 73% 73% 69% 34% 0% 0% 15% 21% 16% 10% 130%( 73%) 8% 0% 0% 41% 5% 6% 7491 87% 96% 84% 66% 40% 74% 75% 77% 77% 68% 38% 0% 0% 15% 24% 18% 13% 126%( 70%) 11% 0% 0% 38% 5% 7% 8309 61% 97% 85% 66% 42% 74% 75% 75% 77% 70% 35% 0% 0% 17% 27% 17% 13% 122%( 71%) 10% 0% 0% 46% 5% 6% 7431 63% 95% 85% 65% 42% 73% 75% 75% 76% 69% 38% 0% 0% 14% 24% 15% 6% 133%( 77%) 13% 0% 0% 40% 4% 5% 6856 96% 95% 86% 70% 47% 76% 79% 77% 80% 69% 36% 0% 0% 15% 29% 14% 9% 127%( 73%) 16% 0% 0% 49% 4% 5% 6005 100% 98% 88% 72% 49% 80% 79% 79% 81% 80% 34% 0% 0% 15% 28% 14% 17% 132%( 75%) 16% 0% 0% 50% 4% 11% 5859 82% 96% 86% 67% 41% 75% 77% 77% 78% 68% 38% 0% 0% 15% 26% 16% 9% 126%( 74%) 14% 0% 0% 43% 5% 6% 6800 65% 98% 89% 73% 49% 79% 79% 80% 80% 77% 35% 0% 0% 16% 28% 16% 15% 132%( 75%) 15% 0% 0% 50% 4% 6% 7030 54% 95% 84% 68% 45% 75% 75% 77% 77% 71% 33% 0% 0% 14% 26% 14% 11% 135%( 75%) 15% 0% 0% 42% 4% 6% 6613 62%

The only thing I was able to find so far ist hat it has something to do with low mbufs, but that didn’t really help me. At the time I took this sysstat, wafl scan status showed some bitmap rearrangements, but they’re always running, sometimes more, sometimes less. No Snapmirror, Snapvault, Deduplication or anything like this running on this filer – it just has aggregate snapshots turned on, but no volume snapshots.

Any idea?

Thanks,

Alexander Griesser System-Administrator

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

Telefon: +43-5-0556-320tel:%2B43-5-0556-320 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500tel:%2B43-5-0556-500

E-Mail: ag@anexia.atmailto:ag@anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.athttp://www.anexia.at/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

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