Yup, I fully agree.
Quoting "W. Curtis Preston" curtis@backupcentral.com:
Grant,
Thanks for the information. I'd like to comment on a
few things. First,
let me say that I am a fan of NDMP, as it is giving
us a valid solution for
backing up all these NetApps I keep seeing
everywhere. ;) Before valid
NDMP server and client software was in place, all we
had was NFS. I have a
lot of respect for NetApp and the other backup and
recovery options you
have (Snapshots, SnapMirror, etc.), but I would like
this one issue
addressed.
At 11:45 AM 6/27/2001 -0700, Melvin, Grant wrote:
NetApp's dump is no stranger to this, we
have added support
for qtree metadata, NT ACLs, Unicode, NT
Streams. However, a
standard BSD restore compatible application
such as Solaris'
ufsrestore can still restore the data, but
will only restore
NFS attributes. So should you have zero
filers in 10 years
(heaven forbid) and a pile of NDMP/dump
tapes to restore from
then as long as you have access to a dump
compatible restore
program you should be able to manually
retrieve your data.
The key for the original poster to understand is the
word _manually_. This
means that you can load the tape into a Solaris box
(or any box that can
read BSD dump, such as HP, AIX, Linux), do some
manual tape manipulation,
and be able to restore the data (without the NT-
specific info). This is a
far cry from being able to point and click your
restores into existence.
Legato's BudTool product proved that NetApp
data could be
restored on non-NetApp storage either in a
disaster recovery
scenario or because that is what the
customer wants. We'd like
to think that some if not all of the
current 7 NDMP-compliant
backup software applications that support
NetApp could add the
same capability.Yes, they could, and I wish they would. I wonder if
some of us should just
write a tool that does that? Hmmm.. Gears
churning....
I wonder if we could figure out a way to feed these
tapes to AMANDA, and
have AMANDA automate the restores. Or just write our own utility... Hmm.... Anyone
interested in this
project?
Marion asks for a standard backup tape
format that can be
interchanged between NDMP-compliant vendors
and we applaud
her for it. However, that is beyond the
current scope of the
NDMP community or the SNIA Backup working
group in general.
We think its going to take an awful lot of
persuading to get
all the current backup software vendors to
define a single
format and then have all the possible
system vendors support
it. Most companies have chosen their
solution based on
trying to differentiate themselves from all
the others and
we see that continuing for some time.Yes, it would take some doing to accomplish that.
However, we've got to
start somewhere. My biggest issue with NDMP is that
it allows the OS
vendor (in this case NetApp) to determine the backup
format. I understand
that it would be a lot of work to get this
accomplished, but I don't think
it's outside the realm of possibility.
Trying to differentiate yourself in the backup world
is a bad thing. (I
submit for your perusal IRIX's XFSDUMP.) I'm glad to
hear that NetApps
tapes can at least be read by a dump-knowledgeable
box. But you're not the
only vendor out there.
Yes, I know that it says right in the V5 spec that
backup format is out of
scope. Yes, I know that getting a bunch of vendors
to get together is not
an easy thing. But I'll keep saying that this should
be in scope until
somebody listens:
OS-SPECIFIC BACKUP COMMANDS BAD
I do wish that Veritas would make their multiplexed
backup format a little
more open, and make a command that can easily read a
NetBackup multiplexed
tape if NetBackup is dead, but at least their backup
format is the same on
every box. The idea of going back to the days when I
had Solaris, HP,
and Ultrix dump tapes, and 3B2 cpio tapes, and VAX
backup tapes gives me
chills. And, given the upcoming prominence of the
NAS industry, we may
have just that. (Assuming you're in a shop that has
more than one NAS
vendor.) That would stink.
Anybody that agree with me, feel free to send a "me
too" message.
W. Curtis Preston Principal Consultant for Storage Designs, your
storage experts
Webmaster: http://www.backupcentral.com Phone: 760
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