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RE: NetAppCertTest
by Maglinger, Paul 11 May '01

11 May '01

Yeah... we could wear them on our "nerd-packs". -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 13:58 To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Hey, maybe we're using the wrong model. Maybe instead of certifications, we should earn patches like the boy scouts. Then I could work on earning my database patch, my performance tuning patch, etc. It's just crazy enough to work! :) -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:47 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest I concur that the problem of "Paper MCSE's" damages the credibility of real world experts that hold the same title. On the other hand, making the tests impossible to pass without knowing everything there is to know about a product is just as bad. I do think that NetApp needs to branch the test out to offer specific tests with area of relivance as in database vs. straight file serving. Any comments NetApp education people?? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 2:32 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest This just reflects a concern I have with certifications in general. A certification that can be obtained with nothing but training and studying and no real-world experience is of questionable value to me. Likewise, a certification that a person with extensive real-world experience can't obtain is also of questionable value. I agree that perhaps there should be multiple different certifications. The filers are just so adaptable that it's impractical to think someone should be an expert on every possible thing they can do. I might administer a hundred filers but never have a need to put a database on one. Likewise I might never need to serve anything but CIFS. It might make the certifications more meaningful to say that for example a given administrator is certified for NFS, CIFS, Databases, HTTP, Security, Networking, etc. You probably don't want the list to be too long, but the idea would be to try to reflect the common real-world uses of the filer. It could even still be just the one single test. Except that rather than giving a single pass/fail certification, the applicant would be scored in each category and granted certifications in each area for which they showed expertise. I honestly appreciate that Netapp's test are more complicated than simple multiple-choice. It shows me that they're making some attempt to prevent the "Paper MCSE" type of situation, which is good. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:14 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Yes. There are questions on disk/volume concepts, clustering, how to implement with Oracle/Sql, how to implement with Exchange, name resolution, mixing disks in volumes (IE - disk size, zoning), and so on and so on. The point is, NetApp needs to seriously reconsider the format of these tests. They are very poorly designed. The first 10-15 questions are multiple choice, the next 15-25 were open ended on clustering of all things, next 10-15 were multiple choice again, and then the rest of the test ended with open ended questions. If NetApp is going to make the test so difficult that only their own employees are going to pass, then they need to remove its availability to its customers. If they are going to leave it public, they need to make it so that normal admins have at least a small hope that they can pass it without sitting on a horse shoe. Another problem is the lack of direction given on what the contents of the test. If you want to pass this test, you WILL have to memorize every possible function of the filer. If you think about it, this test should be set up as a core that deals directly with how the filer is set up and basic file serving functions and have electives for the second part. Not everyone uses these filers as Oracle database containers. But then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:51 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

2 1

RE: NetAppCertTest
by Mohler, Jeff 11 May '01

11 May '01

*heh* No.."Mission Patches" like NASA. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:58 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Hey, maybe we're using the wrong model. Maybe instead of certifications, we should earn patches like the boy scouts. Then I could work on earning my database patch, my performance tuning patch, etc. It's just crazy enough to work! :) -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:47 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest I concur that the problem of "Paper MCSE's" damages the credibility of real world experts that hold the same title. On the other hand, making the tests impossible to pass without knowing everything there is to know about a product is just as bad. I do think that NetApp needs to branch the test out to offer specific tests with area of relivance as in database vs. straight file serving. Any comments NetApp education people?? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 2:32 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest This just reflects a concern I have with certifications in general. A certification that can be obtained with nothing but training and studying and no real-world experience is of questionable value to me. Likewise, a certification that a person with extensive real-world experience can't obtain is also of questionable value. I agree that perhaps there should be multiple different certifications. The filers are just so adaptable that it's impractical to think someone should be an expert on every possible thing they can do. I might administer a hundred filers but never have a need to put a database on one. Likewise I might never need to serve anything but CIFS. It might make the certifications more meaningful to say that for example a given administrator is certified for NFS, CIFS, Databases, HTTP, Security, Networking, etc. You probably don't want the list to be too long, but the idea would be to try to reflect the common real-world uses of the filer. It could even still be just the one single test. Except that rather than giving a single pass/fail certification, the applicant would be scored in each category and granted certifications in each area for which they showed expertise. I honestly appreciate that Netapp's test are more complicated than simple multiple-choice. It shows me that they're making some attempt to prevent the "Paper MCSE" type of situation, which is good. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:14 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Yes. There are questions on disk/volume concepts, clustering, how to implement with Oracle/Sql, how to implement with Exchange, name resolution, mixing disks in volumes (IE - disk size, zoning), and so on and so on. The point is, NetApp needs to seriously reconsider the format of these tests. They are very poorly designed. The first 10-15 questions are multiple choice, the next 15-25 were open ended on clustering of all things, next 10-15 were multiple choice again, and then the rest of the test ended with open ended questions. If NetApp is going to make the test so difficult that only their own employees are going to pass, then they need to remove its availability to its customers. If they are going to leave it public, they need to make it so that normal admins have at least a small hope that they can pass it without sitting on a horse shoe. Another problem is the lack of direction given on what the contents of the test. If you want to pass this test, you WILL have to memorize every possible function of the filer. If you think about it, this test should be set up as a core that deals directly with how the filer is set up and basic file serving functions and have electives for the second part. Not everyone uses these filers as Oracle database containers. But then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:51 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

1 0

RE: NetAppCertTest
by Mike Sphar 11 May '01

11 May '01

Hey, maybe we're using the wrong model. Maybe instead of certifications, we should earn patches like the boy scouts. Then I could work on earning my database patch, my performance tuning patch, etc. It's just crazy enough to work! :) -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:47 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest I concur that the problem of "Paper MCSE's" damages the credibility of real world experts that hold the same title. On the other hand, making the tests impossible to pass without knowing everything there is to know about a product is just as bad. I do think that NetApp needs to branch the test out to offer specific tests with area of relivance as in database vs. straight file serving. Any comments NetApp education people?? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 2:32 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest This just reflects a concern I have with certifications in general. A certification that can be obtained with nothing but training and studying and no real-world experience is of questionable value to me. Likewise, a certification that a person with extensive real-world experience can't obtain is also of questionable value. I agree that perhaps there should be multiple different certifications. The filers are just so adaptable that it's impractical to think someone should be an expert on every possible thing they can do. I might administer a hundred filers but never have a need to put a database on one. Likewise I might never need to serve anything but CIFS. It might make the certifications more meaningful to say that for example a given administrator is certified for NFS, CIFS, Databases, HTTP, Security, Networking, etc. You probably don't want the list to be too long, but the idea would be to try to reflect the common real-world uses of the filer. It could even still be just the one single test. Except that rather than giving a single pass/fail certification, the applicant would be scored in each category and granted certifications in each area for which they showed expertise. I honestly appreciate that Netapp's test are more complicated than simple multiple-choice. It shows me that they're making some attempt to prevent the "Paper MCSE" type of situation, which is good. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:14 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Yes. There are questions on disk/volume concepts, clustering, how to implement with Oracle/Sql, how to implement with Exchange, name resolution, mixing disks in volumes (IE - disk size, zoning), and so on and so on. The point is, NetApp needs to seriously reconsider the format of these tests. They are very poorly designed. The first 10-15 questions are multiple choice, the next 15-25 were open ended on clustering of all things, next 10-15 were multiple choice again, and then the rest of the test ended with open ended questions. If NetApp is going to make the test so difficult that only their own employees are going to pass, then they need to remove its availability to its customers. If they are going to leave it public, they need to make it so that normal admins have at least a small hope that they can pass it without sitting on a horse shoe. Another problem is the lack of direction given on what the contents of the test. If you want to pass this test, you WILL have to memorize every possible function of the filer. If you think about it, this test should be set up as a core that deals directly with how the filer is set up and basic file serving functions and have electives for the second part. Not everyone uses these filers as Oracle database containers. But then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:51 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

1 0

RE: NetAppCertTest
by Honeycutt, Michael 11 May '01

11 May '01

Fundamental? I just took the first test, and they have made it very hard for anyone that does not work for NetApp to pass this test. In my opinion, you should not offer this cert to customers. -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:24 AM To: Honeycutt, Michael; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

2 1

RE: NetAppCertTest
by Honeycutt, Michael 11 May '01

11 May '01

I concur that the problem of "Paper MCSE's" damages the credibility of real world experts that hold the same title. On the other hand, making the tests impossible to pass without knowing everything there is to know about a product is just as bad. I do think that NetApp needs to branch the test out to offer specific tests with area of relivance as in database vs. straight file serving. Any comments NetApp education people?? -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 2:32 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest This just reflects a concern I have with certifications in general. A certification that can be obtained with nothing but training and studying and no real-world experience is of questionable value to me. Likewise, a certification that a person with extensive real-world experience can't obtain is also of questionable value. I agree that perhaps there should be multiple different certifications. The filers are just so adaptable that it's impractical to think someone should be an expert on every possible thing they can do. I might administer a hundred filers but never have a need to put a database on one. Likewise I might never need to serve anything but CIFS. It might make the certifications more meaningful to say that for example a given administrator is certified for NFS, CIFS, Databases, HTTP, Security, Networking, etc. You probably don't want the list to be too long, but the idea would be to try to reflect the common real-world uses of the filer. It could even still be just the one single test. Except that rather than giving a single pass/fail certification, the applicant would be scored in each category and granted certifications in each area for which they showed expertise. I honestly appreciate that Netapp's test are more complicated than simple multiple-choice. It shows me that they're making some attempt to prevent the "Paper MCSE" type of situation, which is good. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:14 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Yes. There are questions on disk/volume concepts, clustering, how to implement with Oracle/Sql, how to implement with Exchange, name resolution, mixing disks in volumes (IE - disk size, zoning), and so on and so on. The point is, NetApp needs to seriously reconsider the format of these tests. They are very poorly designed. The first 10-15 questions are multiple choice, the next 15-25 were open ended on clustering of all things, next 10-15 were multiple choice again, and then the rest of the test ended with open ended questions. If NetApp is going to make the test so difficult that only their own employees are going to pass, then they need to remove its availability to its customers. If they are going to leave it public, they need to make it so that normal admins have at least a small hope that they can pass it without sitting on a horse shoe. Another problem is the lack of direction given on what the contents of the test. If you want to pass this test, you WILL have to memorize every possible function of the filer. If you think about it, this test should be set up as a core that deals directly with how the filer is set up and basic file serving functions and have electives for the second part. Not everyone uses these filers as Oracle database containers. But then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:51 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

1 0

RE: NetAppCertTest
by Mike Sphar 11 May '01

11 May '01

This just reflects a concern I have with certifications in general. A certification that can be obtained with nothing but training and studying and no real-world experience is of questionable value to me. Likewise, a certification that a person with extensive real-world experience can't obtain is also of questionable value. I agree that perhaps there should be multiple different certifications. The filers are just so adaptable that it's impractical to think someone should be an expert on every possible thing they can do. I might administer a hundred filers but never have a need to put a database on one. Likewise I might never need to serve anything but CIFS. It might make the certifications more meaningful to say that for example a given administrator is certified for NFS, CIFS, Databases, HTTP, Security, Networking, etc. You probably don't want the list to be too long, but the idea would be to try to reflect the common real-world uses of the filer. It could even still be just the one single test. Except that rather than giving a single pass/fail certification, the applicant would be scored in each category and granted certifications in each area for which they showed expertise. I honestly appreciate that Netapp's test are more complicated than simple multiple-choice. It shows me that they're making some attempt to prevent the "Paper MCSE" type of situation, which is good. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 11:14 AM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest Yes. There are questions on disk/volume concepts, clustering, how to implement with Oracle/Sql, how to implement with Exchange, name resolution, mixing disks in volumes (IE - disk size, zoning), and so on and so on. The point is, NetApp needs to seriously reconsider the format of these tests. They are very poorly designed. The first 10-15 questions are multiple choice, the next 15-25 were open ended on clustering of all things, next 10-15 were multiple choice again, and then the rest of the test ended with open ended questions. If NetApp is going to make the test so difficult that only their own employees are going to pass, then they need to remove its availability to its customers. If they are going to leave it public, they need to make it so that normal admins have at least a small hope that they can pass it without sitting on a horse shoe. Another problem is the lack of direction given on what the contents of the test. If you want to pass this test, you WILL have to memorize every possible function of the filer. If you think about it, this test should be set up as a core that deals directly with how the filer is set up and basic file serving functions and have electives for the second part. Not everyone uses these filers as Oracle database containers. But then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:51 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

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RE: NetAppCertTest
by Honeycutt, Michael 11 May '01

11 May '01

Yes. There are questions on disk/volume concepts, clustering, how to implement with Oracle/Sql, how to implement with Exchange, name resolution, mixing disks in volumes (IE - disk size, zoning), and so on and so on. The point is, NetApp needs to seriously reconsider the format of these tests. They are very poorly designed. The first 10-15 questions are multiple choice, the next 15-25 were open ended on clustering of all things, next 10-15 were multiple choice again, and then the rest of the test ended with open ended questions. If NetApp is going to make the test so difficult that only their own employees are going to pass, then they need to remove its availability to its customers. If they are going to leave it public, they need to make it so that normal admins have at least a small hope that they can pass it without sitting on a horse shoe. Another problem is the lack of direction given on what the contents of the test. If you want to pass this test, you WILL have to memorize every possible function of the filer. If you think about it, this test should be set up as a core that deals directly with how the filer is set up and basic file serving functions and have electives for the second part. Not everyone uses these filers as Oracle database containers. But then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 1:51 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

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RE: NetAppCertTest
by Mike Sphar 11 May '01

11 May '01

What? Nothing on clustering? That's one of the reasons I haven't though about taking the tests. I've been maintaining filers for about 4 years, but I've never had any official training classes, and I'm very unlikely to get budget for training because after all, I've been maintaining them for 4 years. I assumed that the Netapp tests would be sort of like the Sun Solaris tests, where even if you'd been an administrator for 10+ years you still wouldn't be able to answer the NIS+ questions unless you had worked in one of those rare locations that used NIS+ or had taken all of Sun's classes. My environment has never utilized clustering, so I figured I'd fail simply on the basis of that. So how likely is a person who already has several years of administration experience to pass these certification tests without needing to attend special training? -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Peter [mailto:Peter.Fairchild@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 8:24 AM To: 'Honeycutt, Michael'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: NetAppCertTest There are three 1 hour tests **The Hardware Test covers the 700 and 800 series filers, FC7-9 and DS14 storage shelves, the basics of racking and connecting them, and a bit on back up technology. **The General Knowledge Test looks at elements of Unix and NT, networking, DOT 5.x & 6.x (Normal Commands only), and some break/fix scenarios. **The Configuration Test examines just that: Can you configure a filer, storage shelf, and basic back up system? Volumes, qtrees, quotas, security styles, VIFs, snapshots, autosupport, OS upgrade, dump/restore, etc. Nothing tricky in these tests. Just the fundamentals. Tricky comes at the Professional level where troubleshooting and performance tuning come into play. How to prepare? Take the Hardware and ONTAP System Administration classes and DO THE LABS. Keep up with the NOW site and toasters (you guys are a great source of material ;->) and you should have no problem. Oh, and there is a grid covering all of the above in greater detail on the NOW site. Peter W. Fairchild Technical Certification Program Manager Educational Services NetworkAppliance, Inc. Desk (408) 822-3320 Cell (408) 877-1596 -----Original Message----- From: Honeycutt, Michael [mailto:MichaelHoneycutt@NC.SLR.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 5:23 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetAppCertTest Has anyone taken the NetApp Associate cert test since the move to Sylvan Prometric? If so, can you give me a hint to what kind of questions are asked. Thanks. Michael Honeycutt MCSE/A+ NT/Exchange Engineer IBM Global Services

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RE: ONTAP 6.x snapshots
by Fox, Adam 11 May '01

11 May '01

No one had to sell their soul. We just re-wrote how snapshots are done in 6.x. This re-write changes how the blockmap file is generated and give lots of benfits. 1. REALLY fast snapshots, even on 1+ TB volumes! 2. 31 Snapshots per volume rather than 20. The blockmap file was the limiting factor 3. SIGNIFICANTLY less overhead for SnapMirror. The blockmap file of the volume must be moved over during a SnapMirror transfer. The old pre-6 blockmap file was 1/1024 of the volume size. So if you had a 1TB volume, your blockmap size was 1GB. This has been cut by I believe (don't quota me exactly on this) by a factor of 16 or 32, thus speeding up SnapMirrors as well, espcecially small incremental SnapMirror transfers. You may have heard about the "Split Blockmap"? This is the re-write I describe above. Enjoy! -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:57 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: ONTAP 6.x snapshots > > > > To balance my karma on this list, after yesterday's "floppy shuffle" > thread.... > > # time rsh F840-filer-running-6.1 'snap create vol0 test' > creating snapshot... > 0.01u 0.02s 0:00.28 10.7% > > 28-hundredths of a second wall-clock time, including loading > and executing > rsh and building and taking down the TCP/IP connection?! > > Whose soul had to be sold to make the new snapshot work so fast? > > Until next time... > > The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 > 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX > tmerrill(a)mathworks.com > http://www.mathworks.com > --- >

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RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740 (philosophical/OT)
by Martin Hughes 11 May '01

11 May '01

>Did they prove that or just claim it. I can claim my car goes 150 mph and >gets 60 miles per gallon. That doesn't make it true and doesn't make me >credible just because I claimed it and refute when someone else says that it >doesn't. This mindset is beginning to worry me a little. I expect a certain amount of sales banter and exaggeration. I can live with some promotion of one companies product and trashing of another by a company sales rep (although the degree to which direct comparisons are made through advertising surprises me - e.g. this liquid plumber is better than that one because we've done tests so don't buy that product as it's crap). But to sit down with a technical person from one organisation and ask specific technical questions on their company's product and apparently get lied to from not asking the exact specific question/misinformed is going a little beyond the pale. Are we heading towards the situation where a buyer needs to get products in on eval from rival companies each time because they cannot trust the technical claims of the vendors? Couldn't our time be better used rather than each company going over the same ground at every technology jump or new product? To take the example above, if someone claimed that their car did 150mph and 60mpg, but then told me when I asked them directly that was only on a downhill slope of 45 degrees on a specific road in the middle of Germany and they actually get about 110mph on a flat road and 25-30 mpg during Interstate driving, I can deal with that. From what I've experienced, it seems to be akin to asking if a car is petrol, being told it is and then finding out I have to fill it with diesel to get it to work. This may well be because I'm a stranger in a strange land (an Irishman in Houston) but is this normal business practise here? I'd be interested in how everyone else sees this. Regards Martin Enterprise Storage/Enterprise Server Group <mailto:martin.hughes@halliburton.com> cellphone: +1 713 303 9214 office: +1 281 871 4124 -----Original Message----- From: Ferd Berfl [mailto:ferd_berfl@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:30 PM To: Martin Hughes; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740 Did they prove that or just claim it. I can claim my car goes 150 mph and gets 60 miles per gallon. That doesn't make it true and doesn't make me credible just because I claimed it and refute when someone else says that it doesn't. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-dl-toasters(a)netapp.com > [mailto:owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com]On Behalf Of Martin Hughes > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:45 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: EMC IP4700 vs NetApp F740 > > > >Your description of how the IP4700's Snapshot copy-on-write > mechanism works > >is right on. The original data is copied to a new location and the new > data > >is written to the original block. Yes this compromises performance. Yes > >you have to allocate physical disk space to accomplish this. No > you cannot > >shrink the amount of disk space you have allocated for this > process if you > >find that it is too much. > > > Hmm, not according to a demo we had from EMC week before last. I grilled > them pretty hard on that and they claimed that they updated the inode file > only and did not copy blocks to another location. > > Well, we have an eval unit coming in next week and I'll do some testing. > > Regards > > Martin > Enterprise Storage/Enterprise Server Group > <mailto:martin.hughes@halliburton.com> > cellphone: +1 713 303 9214 > office: +1 281 871 4124 > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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