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RE: Netapp trunking - no performance gain
by david byte 30 Mar '05

30 Mar '05

The catch with trunking is that a single host will not see performance gains, unless they are load balancing across 2 nics and the filer is load balancing in the exact same manner. (not likely, but it can occur as aaron notes) Generally, trunking is used for load aggregation to provide higher performance to a larger number of clients. If you are looking for higher throughput that about 100MB/s you should be talking with your Network Appliance SE about assisting in the configuration and design of the system. David Byte Senior Systems Engineer 918-461-9255 davidb(a)uptime.net -----Original Message----- From: aaron hirsch Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:53 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Netapp trunking - no performance gain > I'm trying to setup trunking on a netapp connected to a Cisco 3550 >gigabit switch (OS vers.12 on the switch). Sorry no experience with this switch... > The odd thing is that when I setup two gigabit lines trunked together >from the netapp to the switch I saw no improvement in thoughtput >compared to a single gigabit line. Again, not familiar with this particular switch...however, I have setup an enviornment similar to what you described and did see performance increase instantly. Extreme Summit 200-48 with a FAS250. I created a single vif interface out of the 2 gige interfaces on the FAS250 and enabled sharing on the switch ports that they plug into. I then took two 10/100 cards on a server and bound them togther and enabled sharing on the ports for the switch too. I went from pushing about 10MB/sec from the server to 20MB/sec. As this is well below the theoretical maximum for two gige ports trunked together, 250MB/sec (125MB/sec each), the problem is that pushing so little data makes it hard to see how effectively the gige trunk works. So, to answer your original question, yes I have done it; but utilizing 10/100 cards doesn't do justice when testing performance on a gige device.

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RE: Netapp trunking - no performance gain
by aaron hirsch 30 Mar '05

30 Mar '05

> I'm trying to setup trunking on a netapp connected to a Cisco 3550 >gigabit switch (OS vers.12 on the switch). Sorry no experience with this switch... > The odd thing is that when I setup two gigabit lines trunked together >from the netapp to the switch I saw no improvement in thoughtput >compared to a single gigabit line. Again, not familiar with this particular switch...however, I have setup an enviornment similar to what you described and did see performance increase instantly. Extreme Summit 200-48 with a FAS250. I created a single vif interface out of the 2 gige interfaces on the FAS250 and enabled sharing on the switch ports that they plug into. I then took two 10/100 cards on a server and bound them togther and enabled sharing on the ports for the switch too. I went from pushing about 10MB/sec from the server to 20MB/sec. As this is well below the theoretical maximum for two gige ports trunked together, 250MB/sec (125MB/sec each), the problem is that pushing so little data makes it hard to see how effectively the gige trunk works. So, to answer your original question, yes I have done it; but utilizing 10/100 cards doesn't do justice when testing performance on a gige device.

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permission auditing with cifs clients
by Charles Roufay 30 Mar '05

30 Mar '05

Hello all, Is anyone aware of a tool that can audit cifs clients permission changes? Permissions are sometimes changed and we would like to know who and when the changes are made. Any ideas? Charles Roufay Network Administration Bluewater Energy Services B.V Marsstraat 33 2132 HR Hoofddorp Netherlands Tel 023 568 2800 - www.bluewater.nl ********************************************************************* This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information. It is intended solely for the addressee.If you are not the indicated addressee(or responsible for delivery to such a person), you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to anyone, or use this email for any other purpose. In such cases, please destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by reply email.

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FW: reuse old NetApp shelf
by Maglinger, Paul 28 Mar '05

28 Mar '05

Agreed. _____ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Scott Fischmann Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 19:28 To: Iain Barnetson Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf Hello Iain: I think Tim's suggestion is a good one and worth considering. Regards, -- Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, Minnesota 55436 phone: (952) 935-7282 | fax: (952) 935-5056 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com <mailto:scott@unioncomputer.com> "Helping our customers make each dollar go further - since 1991!" Iain Barnetson wrote on 3/26/2005, 4:41 PM: yeah yeah yeah Am I in the Ebay forum or something? I've had more replies offereing to buy these things or sell me something else than answers to the question...........good grief!! Please DO NOT email me trying to sell me something or buy something from me, ok? Thanks. _____ From: Timothy Naple [mailto:tnaple@BERKCOM.com <mailto:tnaple@BERKCOM.com> ] Sent: 26 March 2005 17:29 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf Ian, I could offer a trade for some generic shelves and disks that work fine on Windows. I could use the NetApp storage. If that sounds at all interesting, let me know. Thanks, Tim Timothy Naple tnaple(a)berkcom.com <mailto:tnaple@berkcom.com> 510-384-1033 Cell 510-644-1599 Office 510-644-1598 Fax Berkeley Communications Corporation 2990 San Pablo Avenue Berkeley, CA 94702 http://www.berkcom.com <http://www.berkcom.com/> -----Original Message----- From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com <mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com> ] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:20 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf I've tired low level formatting two of the disks using the Qlogic card bios facility which suceeded with no error messages. I then came back into windows and still couldn't do anything with the disks. I've tried creating a partition using both diskpart and gdisk32 but still no joy. Gdisk32 creates a partition but still windows wants to initialize the disks but can't. diskpart sits there using cpu cycles, so far for 3 hours, and doesn't seem to be doing very much. Any ideas how I can get these drives in a usuable state? _____ From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com <mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com> ] Sent: 25 March 2005 17:14 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf You'll probably have to low-level format the drives to use 512 byte blocks. I'm guessing Windows isn't thrilled with the 520-byte blocks that NTAP uses. -- Adam Fox adamfox(a)netapp.com <mailto:adamfox@netapp.com> _____ From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com <mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com> ] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:50 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> Subject: Re: reuse old NetApp shelf I've got a couple of NetApp DS14 fibre disk shelves from our "old" filers that I'd like to reuse. I attached one of the shelves to a server using a Qlogic 2200 card and although Windows detected the drives correctly I couldn't partition them or anything - no specific error message just saying that it couldn't. What I'm wondering is: Should I use the Qlogic card facility to low level format them? Will that make them usable in Windows? Any suggestions on how I can implement RAID with these disks other than Windows software RAID? Regards, Iain

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RE: reuse old NetApp shelf
by Iain Barnetson 27 Mar '05

27 Mar '05

Why do 'some' people that reply to these emails not read them first?? Tim, if you bothered to read my origignal emails you would see that it is you that is ignorant by replying in that fashion. If you can't be more helpful why not refrain from answering? I maybe inexerienced as far as reusing NetApp FC disks in this fashion, but as per my previous emails you would have seen that I know enough with out the 100's of people telling me that they need to be low level formatted - see 1 st and subsequent emails. That's not the problem I've got that done but I can not format them ala Windows 512 sectors. See previous comments about diskpart & gdisk32, etc. As for the response sugesting using a different shelf, well that wouldn't be reusing the DS14 would it? It's something I may have to do, but before doing so I thought I'd ask to see if anyone could suggest a way of 'reusing' the DS14 shelves. Now, your point about disk manufactures utilities to format the disks is a bit more along the right lines, at least it addresses the question. The details about the mylex is helpful, I'll check that out. Iain -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Naple Sent: 27 March 2005 02:28 To: Iain Barnetson; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf Ian, I apologize. A simple 'no thanks' would have done. I had no intention of bothering you. I was simply trying to help as I could tell from your previous posts that you were completely ignorant when it comes to fibre channel disk firmware, block size, formatting, RAID, etc. I was trying to provide a simple solution that you might understand. Your best option in my opinion would be using a 16 bay shelf with a hardware RAID module from the same manufacturer. I would use disks that have factory generic firmware and format them 512 bps. If you are set on using NetApp DS14's, then at least format the disks 512bps. Disk manufacturers provide free utilities and there are several expensive commercial sofftware options to accomplish this. Your hardware RAID options are limited. I can suggest the Mylex ExtremeRAID 3000 which is a PCI hardware fibre channel RAID card which is Windows compatible. This is a copper card with two HSSDC connectors so depending on which style LRC's you have, you may need to do some optical to copper conversion. Now the LRC and the disk firmware were designed for NetApp, so you would still be better off with generic disk firmware and a shelf designed to be Windows compatible. Better yet, just put these DS14's back on a filer and run FCP. Thank you, Tim -----Original Message----- From: "Iain Barnetson"<Iain.Barnetson(a)Halliburton.com> Sent: 3/26/05 2:41:19 PM To: "toasters(a)mathworks.com"<toasters(a)mathworks.com> Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf yeah yeah yeah Am I in the Ebay forum or something? I've had more replies offereing to buy these things or sell me something else than answers to the question...........good grief!! Please DO NOT email me trying to sell me something or buy something from me, ok? Thanks. _____ From: Timothy Naple [mailto:tnaple@BERKCOM.com] Sent: 26 March 2005 17:29 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf Ian, I could offer a trade for some generic shelves and disks that work fine on Windows. I could use the NetApp storage. If that sounds at all interesting, let me know. Thanks, Tim Timothy Naple tnaple(a)berkcom.com 510-384-1033 Cell 510-644-1599 Office 510-644-1598 Fax Berkeley Communications Corporation 2990 San Pablo Avenue Berkeley, CA 94702 http://www.berkcom.com <http://www.berkcom.com/> -----Original Message----- From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:20 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf I've tired low level formatting two of the disks using the Qlogic card bios facility which suceeded with no error messages. I then came back into windows and still couldn't do anything with the disks. I've tried creating a partition using both diskpart and gdisk32 but still no joy. Gdisk32 creates a partition but still windows wants to initialize the disks but can't. diskpart sits there using cpu cycles, so far for 3 hours, and doesn't seem to be doing very much. Any ideas how I can get these drives in a usuable state? _____ From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] Sent: 25 March 2005 17:14 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf You'll probably have to low-level format the drives to use 512 byte blocks. I'm guessing Windows isn't thrilled with the 520-byte blocks that NTAP uses. -- Adam Fox adamfox(a)netapp.com <mailto:adamfox@netapp.com> _____ From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:50 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: reuse old NetApp shelf I've got a couple of NetApp DS14 fibre disk shelves from our "old" filers that I'd like to reuse. I attached one of the shelves to a server using a Qlogic 2200 card and although Windows detected the drives correctly I couldn't partition them or anything - no specific error message just saying that it couldn't. What I'm wondering is: Should I use the Qlogic card facility to low level format them? Will that make them usable in Windows? Any suggestions on how I can implement RAID with these disks other than Windows software RAID? Regards, Iain

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RE: reuse old NetApp shelf
by Iain Barnetson 27 Mar '05

27 Mar '05

yeah yeah yeah Am I in the Ebay forum or something? I've had more replies offereing to buy these things or sell me something else than answers to the question...........good grief!! Please DO NOT email me trying to sell me something or buy something from me, ok? Thanks. ________________________________ From: Timothy Naple [mailto:tnaple@BERKCOM.com] Sent: 26 March 2005 17:29 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf Ian, I could offer a trade for some generic shelves and disks that work fine on Windows. I could use the NetApp storage. If that sounds at all interesting, let me know. Thanks, Tim Timothy Naple tnaple(a)berkcom.com 510-384-1033 Cell 510-644-1599 Office 510-644-1598 Fax Berkeley Communications Corporation 2990 San Pablo Avenue Berkeley, CA 94702 http://www.berkcom.com <http://www.berkcom.com/> -----Original Message----- From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:20 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf I've tired low level formatting two of the disks using the Qlogic card bios facility which suceeded with no error messages. I then came back into windows and still couldn't do anything with the disks. I've tried creating a partition using both diskpart and gdisk32 but still no joy. Gdisk32 creates a partition but still windows wants to initialize the disks but can't. diskpart sits there using cpu cycles, so far for 3 hours, and doesn't seem to be doing very much. Any ideas how I can get these drives in a usuable state? ________________________________ From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] Sent: 25 March 2005 17:14 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf You'll probably have to low-level format the drives to use 512 byte blocks. I'm guessing Windows isn't thrilled with the 520-byte blocks that NTAP uses. -- Adam Fox adamfox(a)netapp.com ________________________________ From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:50 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: reuse old NetApp shelf I've got a couple of NetApp DS14 fibre disk shelves from our "old" filers that I'd like to reuse. I attached one of the shelves to a server using a Qlogic 2200 card and although Windows detected the drives correctly I couldn't partition them or anything - no specific error message just saying that it couldn't. What I'm wondering is: Should I use the Qlogic card facility to low level format them? Will that make them usable in Windows? Any suggestions on how I can implement RAID with these disks other than Windows software RAID? Regards, Iain

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RE: reuse old NetApp shelf
by Timothy Naple 27 Mar '05

27 Mar '05

Ian, I apologize. A simple 'no thanks' would have done. I had no intention of bothering you. I was simply trying to help as I could tell from your previous posts that you were completely ignorant when it comes to fibre channel disk firmware, block size, formatting, RAID, etc. I was trying to provide a simple solution that you might understand. Your best option in my opinion would be using a 16 bay shelf with a hardware RAID module from the same manufacturer. I would use disks that have factory generic firmware and format them 512 bps. If you are set on using NetApp DS14's, then at least format the disks 512bps. Disk manufacturers provide free utilities and there are several expensive commercial sofftware options to accomplish this. Your hardware RAID options are limited. I can suggest the Mylex ExtremeRAID 3000 which is a PCI hardware fibre channel RAID card which is Windows compatible. This is a copper card with two HSSDC connectors so depending on which style LRC's you have, you may need to do some optical to copper conversion. Now the LRC and the disk firmware were designed for NetApp, so you would still be better off with generic disk firmware and a shelf designed to be Windows compatible. Better yet, just put these DS14's back on a filer and run FCP. Thank you, Tim -----Original Message----- From: "Iain Barnetson"<Iain.Barnetson(a)Halliburton.com> Sent: 3/26/05 2:41:19 PM To: "toasters(a)mathworks.com"<toasters(a)mathworks.com> Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf yeah yeah yeah Am I in the Ebay forum or something? I've had more replies offereing to buy these things or sell me something else than answers to the question...........good grief!! Please DO NOT email me trying to sell me something or buy something from me, ok? Thanks. _____ From: Timothy Naple [mailto:tnaple@BERKCOM.com] Sent: 26 March 2005 17:29 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf Ian, I could offer a trade for some generic shelves and disks that work fine on Windows. I could use the NetApp storage. If that sounds at all interesting, let me know. Thanks, Tim Timothy Naple tnaple(a)berkcom.com 510-384-1033 Cell 510-644-1599 Office 510-644-1598 Fax Berkeley Communications Corporation 2990 San Pablo Avenue Berkeley, CA 94702 http://www.berkcom.com <http://www.berkcom.com/> -----Original Message----- From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:20 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf I've tired low level formatting two of the disks using the Qlogic card bios facility which suceeded with no error messages. I then came back into windows and still couldn't do anything with the disks. I've tried creating a partition using both diskpart and gdisk32 but still no joy. Gdisk32 creates a partition but still windows wants to initialize the disks but can't. diskpart sits there using cpu cycles, so far for 3 hours, and doesn't seem to be doing very much. Any ideas how I can get these drives in a usuable state? _____ From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] Sent: 25 March 2005 17:14 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf You'll probably have to low-level format the drives to use 512 byte blocks. I'm guessing Windows isn't thrilled with the 520-byte blocks that NTAP uses. -- Adam Fox adamfox(a)netapp.com <mailto:adamfox@netapp.com> _____ From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:50 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: reuse old NetApp shelf I've got a couple of NetApp DS14 fibre disk shelves from our "old" filers that I'd like to reuse. I attached one of the shelves to a server using a Qlogic 2200 card and although Windows detected the drives correctly I couldn't partition them or anything - no specific error message just saying that it couldn't. What I'm wondering is: Should I use the Qlogic card facility to low level format them? Will that make them usable in Windows? Any suggestions on how I can implement RAID with these disks other than Windows software RAID? Regards, Iain

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RE: reuse old NetApp shelf
by Iain Barnetson 26 Mar '05

26 Mar '05

I've tired low level formatting two of the disks using the Qlogic card bios facility which suceeded with no error messages. I then came back into windows and still couldn't do anything with the disks. I've tried creating a partition using both diskpart and gdisk32 but still no joy. Gdisk32 creates a partition but still windows wants to initialize the disks but can't. diskpart sits there using cpu cycles, so far for 3 hours, and doesn't seem to be doing very much. Any ideas how I can get these drives in a usuable state? ________________________________ From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] Sent: 25 March 2005 17:14 To: Iain Barnetson Subject: RE: reuse old NetApp shelf You'll probably have to low-level format the drives to use 512 byte blocks. I'm guessing Windows isn't thrilled with the 520-byte blocks that NTAP uses. -- Adam Fox adamfox(a)netapp.com ________________________________ From: Iain Barnetson [mailto:Iain.Barnetson@Halliburton.com] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:50 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: reuse old NetApp shelf I've got a couple of NetApp DS14 fibre disk shelves from our "old" filers that I'd like to reuse. I attached one of the shelves to a server using a Qlogic 2200 card and although Windows detected the drives correctly I couldn't partition them or anything - no specific error message just saying that it couldn't. What I'm wondering is: Should I use the Qlogic card facility to low level format them? Will that make them usable in Windows? Any suggestions on how I can implement RAID with these disks other than Windows software RAID? Regards, Iain

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Netapp trunking - no performance gain
by Chris Moll 25 Mar '05

25 Mar '05

Has anyone gotten any performance gains from network interface trunking with a netapp? So far I haven't.... my suspicion is that I don't have the switch setup right. ----- More details: I'm trying to setup trunking on a netapp connected to a Cisco 3550 gigabit switch (OS vers.12 on the switch). The odd thing is that when I setup two gigabit lines trunked together from the netapp to the switch I saw no improvement in thoughtput compared to a single gigabit line. As a test I set up four 100Mbit interfaces trunked together from the netapp to the switch. Again, I see the same throughput as with a single 100Mbit interface alone - there was no gain in throughput from adding three more interfaces. (Measured by connecting a Sun to the switch with a gigabit interface). The trunking worked even before I set anything on the switch. The only thing I knew to do on the switch was put the interfaces in a channel group: switch> interface range GigabitEthernet1/0/17 - 18 switch> channel-group 1 mode on switch> end ...but still no change in throughput (this worked with sun trunking, and there I did see a gain in throughput). netapp> vif create multi romvif0 -b rr e4a e4b e4c e4d netstat and vif status both show roughly equal numbers of packets on all four interfaces; all four are definitely being used. -Chris Moll Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

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FW: reuse old NetApp shelf
by Iain Barnetson 25 Mar '05

25 Mar '05

Thanks for the replies guys. Any ideas on a hardware RAID card controller for them? ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Iain Barnetson Sent: Fri 25/03/2005 16:50 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: reuse old NetApp shelf I've got a couple of NetApp DS14 fibre disk shelves from our "old" filers that I'd like to reuse. I attached one of the shelves to a server using a Qlogic 2200 card and although Windows detected the drives correctly I couldn't partition them or anything - no specific error message just saying that it couldn't. What I'm wondering is: Should I use the Qlogic card facility to low level format them? Will that make them usable in Windows? Any suggestions on how I can implement RAID with these disks other than Windows software RAID? Regards, Iain

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