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Re: snapcopy -> volcopy?
by Keith Brown 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

Hi Alexei... >Is volcopy the same as what snap copy was being touted as? Yes. >If volcopy >requires a separate license, why not make it part of the basic >OS instead? Volume copy did initially ship as a component that required a separate licence, but it is now free. Contact customer service or your sales rep if you have a version of ONTAP that requires a license code to enable it. I believe you will find that our latest GA release, 5.1.2, does not though. >That is, why does it require another license key? Because initially it was supposed to cost money, but now it is a base OS feature. Keith

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snapcopy -> volcopy?
by alexei＠cimedia.com 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

This is probably a question better answered by my sales rep, but it is late and I doubt she would appreciate a page right now :) Is volcopy the same as what snap copy was being touted as? If volcopy requires a separate license, why not make it part of the basic OS instead? That is, why does it require another license key? Just curious. Thanks. Alex

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Re: Macintosh Access
by Keith Brown 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

>Does anyone know of a piece of software that will >run on Unix or NT that will allow a NAC file system >to be used by a Macintosh? I can't give you the names of any packages that are "officially certified" to work with NFS mounted file systems and our filers, but I can give you some alternatives to the Columbia AppleTalk Package if this is proving unsatisfactory for what you are trying to accomplish. First, there is another free alternative to CAP called Netatalk. This one is from the University of Michigan and I am led to understand that it is a "better" implementation. For details, see: http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk Then there are some commercial alternatives. One comes from a company called IPT Technology and is called uShare. See: http://www.iptech.com Another comes from a company called Helios and is called EtherShare. See: http://www.helios.com >Or any tricks >that will allow NT to re-export a CIFS share >via appletalk? Unfortunately this is not possible today. >Our usage of Filers depends on being able to access >the filers from macintosh (with no client software >on the mac!). If anyone has any suggestions i'd >really like to hear them. Are you aware of the way that does involve a little client software on the Macs? A company called Thursby make a CIFS client for the Macintosh called DAVE. Thursby are at: http://www.thursby.com Keith

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fcal and clustered failover
by alexei＠cimedia.com 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

According to the white paper http://www.netapp.com/technology/level3/1004.html, in a clustered failover (CF) setup 2 filers would be attached to the same fc loop, 1 filer to the A port and 1 to the B port (to determine who is "master" for that set of disks). Now, I take this to mean that on any given loop, only 1 filer can be master for that loop. Based on this assumption, how does this alter the max shelves per filer? That is, on a f740 I can have 2 loops (based on the 8 shelves per loop guideline and 16 shelves per filer on a 740). If this f740 and another f740 were part of the same CF setup and both filers were "active", would I be limited to a single loop of active shelves on each filer? Or would I be able to have 4 loops, 2 active and 2 in standby (ie: my partners shelves)? Or does the 8 shelves per loop guideline not apply to the CF setup? I just looked through the f700 hardware guide as well as the ONTAP 5.2 sys admin guide (thanks for having that up). The chapter on CF is good. Definitely. Ok, so the hardware guide says that a f740 and an f760 can both only have 112 fcal drives, 2 fcal loops max. How does the 760 then do 1.4TB of storage and the 740 960GB? Seems there are 56 or so drives missing.... another loop? So, my bottom line question is: in a CF setup with 2 f740's, what is the maximum *useable* storage space I will have (combined)? Also, why does a f630 get to have 3 fcal loops? Boy, I am just full of questions tonight... Thanks. Alexei

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Re: fcal and clustered failover
by Keith Brown 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

Alexei... I'm going to leave your shelves-per-loop and loops-per-filer in the cluster scenario questions for our clustering product manager to address. He will have the latest information on exactly what configurations we have tested and are supporting on which filer. However, I will take a shot at the obvious question... >Ok, >so the hardware guide says that a f740 and an f760 can both only have 112 >fcal drives, 2 fcal loops max. > >How does the 760 then do 1.4TB of storage and the 740 960GB? Seems there are >56 or so drives missing.... another loop? This was/is just a quality assurance and testing lag. The F760 should be going to the full three FCAL loop configuration in the near term (if it hasn't happened already?). Our latest GA release, 5.1.2, just officially gave the full 3 FCAL loop / 168 drive capability to our former high end unit, the F630, so hopefully the new F760 isn't too far behind! :-) >So, my bottom line question is: in a CF setup with 2 f740's, what is the maximum >*useable* storage space I will have (combined)? Don't take it as gospel, but I *think* you'll probably be looking at a couple of FCAL loops-worth. In other words, ~960 GB combined (~480 GB per filer). The actual *useable* space is dependent on some other configuration specifics. >Also, why does a f630 get to have 3 fcal loops? Because it's been tested, certified and stamped as "approved" in a 3 FCAL loop configuration by our quality people. >Boy, I am just full of questions tonight... Tell me about it! :-) Keith

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file system size limit
by alexei＠cimedia.com 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

Is the maximum size of a file system going to change in ONTAP? It was my understanding that the max size was limited by a few factors, among them the speed of disk reconstruction (max window of opportunity for duoble failure), the number of physical disks (in a scsi config) and something else. With the advent of multiple raid groups and larger disk sizes, it seems like this might be the obvious progression. Lets say that the next drive size is 18GB. That means that in a 740 I could have 800GB* per loop. That would rock. (800GB when you have 4 raid groups with 12 (11+parity) disks + spares + shared disk for cluster) I know that the argument will be that I should break up the single filesystem into multiple volumes, since then I can fine tune the options (snapshots, snap schedules, etc) per volume. That is all good, but when you start getting 100's of GB of data, sometimes it does not split cleanly (and updating the vfstab N clients becomes a chore, no matter how automated you have it (well, save for NIS, but who does that?)). I don't need a 1.5TB filesystem.... yet. But it sure would be nice to be able to build one :) Yes, the more we get the more we want. Thanks. Alexei

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Re: Macintosh Access
by clark shishido 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

You can use DAVE, a CIFS client for the Mac, from http://www.thursby.com I use it once in a while to connect to my NT servers. We haven't rolled out the filer to our creative users yet, but I'm going to push for Xinet's KAShare running on one of our IRIX boxes mounting the filer. --clark >Help! > >Does anyone know of a piece of software that will >run on Unix or NT that will allow a NAC file system >to be used by a Macintosh? Or any tricks >that will allow NT to re-export a CIFS share >via appletalk? > >I've had it with CAP - after finding yet another bug. > >Our usage of Filers depends on being able to access >the filers from macintosh (with no client software >on the mac!). If anyone has any suggestions i'd >really like to hear them. > >Thanks, > Graham

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RE: file system size limit
by Hunter, Peter 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

And being new what backup device are you going to use ? Another toaster! ;-) > Is the maximum size of a file system going to change in ONTAP? > > It was my understanding that the max size was limited by a few > factors, > among them the speed of disk reconstruction (max window of opportunity > for duoble failure), the number of physical disks (in a scsi config) > and something else. > > With the advent of multiple raid groups and larger disk sizes, it > seems like > this might be the obvious progression. Lets say that the next drive > size is 18GB. > That means that in a 740 I could have 800GB* per loop. That would > rock. (800GB when > you have 4 raid groups with 12 (11+parity) disks + spares + shared > disk for cluster) > > I know that the argument will be that I should break up the single > filesystem into > multiple volumes, since then I can fine tune the options (snapshots, > snap schedules, > etc) per volume. That is all good, but when you start getting 100's of > GB of data, > sometimes it does not split cleanly (and updating the vfstab N clients > becomes a chore, > no matter how automated you have it (well, save for NIS, but who does > that?)). > > I don't need a 1.5TB filesystem.... yet. But it sure would be nice to > be able > to build one :) > > Yes, the more we get the more we want. > > > Thanks. > > > > Alexei >

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Re: Filers and CAP
by Keith Brown 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

>Has anyone succesfully configured CAP (columbia Appletalk >Protocol) to work with an NFS mounted filer? Yes. We have at least one other customer that I'm aware of doing this (NFS mounting a filer file system on a UNIX machine, and then running one of the freeware AppleShare/Talk servers on said UNIX machine to "re-export" that file system to Macintosh clients via the Apple protocols). >I am having problems that appear to revolve around NFS file >locking. >[...] >In some circumstances, CAP AUFS using NFS mounted filesystems may complain >about files being locked when they are not obviously so. This is usually >the result of missing lock daemons or simply brain-dead or buggy NFS code. And they don't define exactly *what* circumstances? Hmmm... :-) Well, there's one thing I can think of that may be catching you/it unawares. If you have Windows/CIFS clients concurrently accessing the data that is being accessed by the Macs via NFS (indirectly), the semantic meaning of any CIFS file/record locks that are being established by your Windows clients are enforced on the NFS side in a mandatory way. The various Windows operating systems from Microsoft implement a mandatory locking scheme, and our SecureShare technology ensure that these mandatory controls are honored in the multiprotocol context. That's something to be aware of. What it means in reality is that when/if CAP "probes" for the presence of locks via fcntl(), it may find locks that have originally come from the CIFS side. Also, if it tries to read and/or write data in a manner that would be in violation of a pre-existing CIFS mandatory lock, it will have those operations failed, even though the attempt is being made via NFS. Keith

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Re: fcal and the 760
by Keith Brown 14 Oct '98

14 Oct '98

>How far can the fcal cable be and what sort of performace hit >do you take on that 3rd loop (since each loop can only consist of >8 shelves)? As far as performance goes, the three FCAL loops are peers in the system. They are "parallel". Each loop is independently connected into the system via its own FCAL adapter/controller and there is no significant prioritization of requests/responses on any one loop over another. >You figure, the last shelf in the 3rd loop is going to be more than a >few meters away from the filer... Well yes, but distance-from-the-controller is not a significant influencer of device performance on an FCAL loop. This type of fibre channel incorporates some cunning stunts at the MAC layer, borrowed from Token Ring and FDDI, that do an effective job of spreading the available bandwidth betwixt all of the connected players, regardless of their physical position on the loop. Keith

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