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Re: can't see ~snapshot directory
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

On 11/06/98 13:26:41 you wrote: >|> As I pointed out before, simply mounting .snapshot as it's own filesystem >|> on the client will resolve this problem. > > No it won't. > > The .snapshot will still be there and will still suffer this problem >when someone uses it. I'm not sure I follow you. If they use it from the seperate mountpoint, there won't be a problem. If they try to refer to the .snapshot in their own directory, sure, they'll still have the problem, but 1. They wouldn't know to look there if you told them to get it from /snapshot (for example), and 2. If they went ahead and used it anyway, they'd know what they were doing. > And it would leave me with another issue - how to setup automount >maps to do the actual mounts in some consistent way. Well, simply don't use automounter. It's evil anyway. (This is a religious war, though, so let's not get into it on this list.) Bruce

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Re: can't see ~snapshot directory
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

On 11/06/98 11:50:43 you wrote: > Also, one thing that I would like to see changed (if it makes sense) >is for the NetApp servers to return different inodes for snapshot >entries (OR in teh snapshot number at the top-end?). The reason for >this is that some versions (egL GNU) of diff seem to check fs/inode >info, and if they find they are the same they don't bother to do any >diff'ing.... As I pointed out before, simply mounting .snapshot as it's own filesystem on the client will resolve this problem. Bruce

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Re: SMTP MIB (was Re: raid scrubbing and hot spares)
by mds＠ns.gbnet.net 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

I have to say I found it easier (marginally) to use the basic MRTG distribution and copy-in the useful bits from the NOW package - largely because it'd been prepared and tailored a leetle too much in NetApp 8) I, for example, wanted/needed to run it all on an SGI box, and the precompiled SPARC binaries weren't very useful in this instance (read HP/IBM/Linux/etc. if more apt). I'll have to do the same thing over again when I get the latest MIB. I'd kill to get my hands on the proper SNMP tools where I work, as it is I have to work far too hard to work out what variables do what to get even basic info out of any MIB. But that's just a general complaint about SNMP on my part. 8) MRTG is useful, but it's also very limited. I want to do some graphs which tie together the main characteristics of filer (network use, CPU, NVRAM-cache-flushes, cache-age, NFS-ops, CIFS-ops) on the same graphs - try to do that with just two variables. (Yes some of those are desirable but not currently reported - to the observant who spotted my imagination running away with my fingers). I also wanted to be able to graph all the per-client stats. But the problem we found there was that the filer only kept a table of 256 such stats, or at least that's all the we could get through SNMP. Per-volume, per-client stats, now that'd be interesting. Per-volume stats would be interesting. Per-disk stats, would be interesting, if slightly un-immediately-useful. Exposing more of the error- and performance-reporting from the disks would be fascinating too. You could graph that data over time to see if there's a disk that's being hot-spotted for some reason, or which is throwing up more low-level, otherwise hidden errors, or which is responding in a below-par relative to its siblings. You could move data around or pre-emptively maintain problems with such information. As the number of clients and disk increase, getting these stats might make the difference between running a silky-smooth operation with the filer or having disks blow randomly in quick succession in just the most critical sections of the filer, serving the most demanding clients - without even knowing such a relationship pertained. That's my Xmas wishlist on the topic. I'll be praying Santa listens to this one though.

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Re: SMTP MIB (was Re: raid scrubbing and hot spares)
by Elena Samsonova 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

Thompson, Tim wrote: > > > > The tools are at http://now.netapp.com/download/tools/filer-mrtg/ > > Yes, I know that, we use those tools and a lot more. > > What other tools do you find useful? (We're always interested > in finding out what people are using.) We wrote our own. We pull and parse the web interface pages of the NetCache Appliance, and I am currently writing one for parsing sysstat output from the filers (and perhaps NetCaches too). Regards Elena ---------------------------------------------------------------- Elena Samsonova e-mail: E.Samsonova(a)wxs.nl World Access / Planet Internet phone: +31 33 45 40 417 PO Box 2529, 3800 GB Amersfoort fax: +31 33 45 40 401 The Netherlands ----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: hard link .snapshot files
by mds＠ns.gbnet.net 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

Actually this issue - of wanting to bring files from a snapshot back into the current filesystem, without raising the occupancy of the disks any more - is something that has crossed my mind before. There are times, for example, when it'd be nice to just bring back a large directory-tree into current use from a snapshot, perhaps/probably toasting anything in the current filesystem image that would name-clash but not having to freshly copy the data into new free blocks on the filer - perhaps because you are close to filling the filer already. Now if it's the total contents of the filer in question then you could take the filer down and use the requisite admin commands (perhaps with the help of the NetApp support folk) to use an older snapshot as your current filesystem image. 'Rolling back to a named consistency point' would be something akin to the NetApp way of putting it. However, I've often thought it'd be darned useful to say: 'take everything from this directory down from that snapshot and graft it coherently into place in the current filesystem here, but leave everything else as it is currently'. This is probably a great deal to ask and couldn't be done with normal filesystem operations, CIFS/NFS notwithstanding. However, as an option available to an admin I think it would be stunningly useful to some folk. This would take some cunning WAFL wizardry to accomplish I think, but it's not beyond the bounds of credibility. > As I'm sure you've already discovered, you can't create a hard link to a > file in a snapshot. The reason is that snapshots are read-only, but it is > necessary to increment the number of links in the linked-to inode. You can > use a symbolic link, of course, but it would point to whatever was at that > location. To prevent the snapshot from being recycled, you could do a "snap > rename" of hourly.0 or whatever to something else. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Harm <harm1(a)llnl.gov> > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> > Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 8:56 AM > Subject: hard link .snapshot files > > > >We have the need to occasionally recover a LARGE file and we would like to > >recover it quickly without making the massive increase in space usage that > >would result if we merely copied the file from .snapshot to the old > directory. > > > >Can we build a hard link from the old directory to the > >.snapshot/hourly.#/Large.file and how will that be protected with the next > >snapshot? > > > >I don't want to screw anything up. Our users ARE rocket scientists. > > > >}}}===============>> LLNL > >James E. Harm (Jim); jharm(a)llnl.gov > >(925) 422-4018 Page: 423-7705x57152 > > > > > > >

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FW: ndmpcopy port for HP/UX
by Melvin, Grant 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

Hi, NDMPcopy for HP-UX clients available on NOW: http://now.netapp.com/tools/ [index pages] http://now.netapp.com/download/tools/ndmpcopy/ [tool page] [Thanks to Paul Albers & Doug Mendoza] Cheers, Grant

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Re: hard link .snapshot files
by Mark Muhlestein 05 Nov '98

05 Nov '98

As I'm sure you've already discovered, you can't create a hard link to a file in a snapshot. The reason is that snapshots are read-only, but it is necessary to increment the number of links in the linked-to inode. You can use a symbolic link, of course, but it would point to whatever was at that location. To prevent the snapshot from being recycled, you could do a "snap rename" of hourly.0 or whatever to something else. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim Harm <harm1(a)llnl.gov> To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 8:56 AM Subject: hard link .snapshot files >We have the need to occasionally recover a LARGE file and we would like to >recover it quickly without making the massive increase in space usage that >would result if we merely copied the file from .snapshot to the old directory. > >Can we build a hard link from the old directory to the >.snapshot/hourly.#/Large.file and how will that be protected with the next >snapshot? > >I don't want to screw anything up. Our users ARE rocket scientists. > >}}}===============>> LLNL >James E. Harm (Jim); jharm(a)llnl.gov >(925) 422-4018 Page: 423-7705x57152 > > >

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Re: can't see ~snapshot directory
by Tom Reingold 05 Nov '98

05 Nov '98

On Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:01:57 CST, David Drum <david(a)more.net> wrote: > I find it disgusting that NetApp caters to Microsoft's ineptitude. Let's be fair. snapshots are strange. They are links to files, but they appear to be duplicates. We had to provide our unix users with a new "du" command so it wouldn't traverse snapshots. How could Microsoft have foreseen this problem and written their apps accordingly? -- Tom Reingold tommy(a)bell-labs.com http://www.bell-labs.com/~tommy The problem with this world is that there's too much apathy. But I don't really care.

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Re: can't see ~snapshot directory
by Tom Reingold 05 Nov '98

05 Nov '98

On Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:05:26 PST, "Chad H. Tudor" <chtudor(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > : find . -name .snapshot -prune -o -print > > While this is really helpful; the find would not be for me, as I do > understand how find operates and more importantly I understand the command > man 'splat'. What I do have is a shop full of folks who do not and it > would be easier if I could point them to a specific biniary. I betcha it would be trivial to take the source code for gnu find and put in a rule never to traverse a directory by a given name. -- Tom Reingold tommy(a)bell-labs.com http://www.bell-labs.com/~tommy Bell Labs, the Research and Development unit of Lucent Technologies Murray Hill, NJ, 07974-0636 US

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Re: can't see ~snapshot directory
by Tom Reingold 05 Nov '98

05 Nov '98

On Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:54:20 PST, "Chad H. Tudor" <chtudor(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > :Let's be fair. snapshots are strange. They are links to files, but > :they appear to be duplicates. We had to provide our unix users with > :a new "du" command so it wouldn't traverse snapshots. > > This raises another question. > > Would there be a find laying about that ignores same? find . -name .snapshot -prune -o -print

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