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13515 discussions

Re: Dumping Clearcase Storage Pools (fwd)i
by Dave Compton 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Gil Smith wrote: > Hey Dave, > > Did you know about the "toasters" mail list at mathworks? > One of our customers started this mailing list for owners > of netapp boxes to share information with each other. > > Anyway below is a question that was on the list just recently > related to clearcase. Thought you might be interrested in > the list and this question. > > --Gil > > ----- Forwarded message from Scott MacDonald ----- > > >From scott(a)msi-uk.com Fri Oct 31 06:51:22 1997 > Sender: scott(a)msi-uk.com > Message-ID: <3459EC09.38A8(a)msi-uk.com> > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:32:41 +0000 > From: Scott MacDonald <scott(a)msi-uk.com> > Organization: Mobile Systems International Plc, UK > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Dumping Clearcase Storage Pools > > Does anyone have any experience using NetApp filers to hold > Clearcase storage pools, and if so, how did you manage the backups? > We're just about to move to them, and we think we should be able > to lock the VOBs, copy the db to the filer, then do a local dump > (from a snapshot) to DLT. > If anyone has any experience they wouldn't mind sharing, I'd > love to hear it. > TIA, > > Scott. > -- > _______________________________________________________________ > > Scott MacDonald Mobile Systems International Plc > Tel: 0171 971 8798 > System Administrator Fax: 0171 971 8712 > E-Mail: scott(a)msi-uk.com > _______________________________________________________________ > > ----- End of forwarded message from Scott MacDonald ----- Scott, We have been doing this for 7 or 8 months now. We have approximately 50 VOBs to backup on a daily basis. Our backups have dropped from around 7 hours to 1 hour and 1/2 hours. Basically this is what we do. Snapshots are set so that there is a snapshot at midnight. At 2357 we lock all the VOBs and wait for the snapshot. At around 0004 we copy the database files from every VOB to a backup directory on the NetApps, create links between this backup area and the source pools in the snapshot. Unlock the VOB and start copying the VOB data to tape. The tape process takes about 7-8 hours. But the most important thing is that our VOB are only locked for around 1 hour. The process has worked very well for us. Hope this helps. Dave

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Dumping Clearcase Storage Pools
by Scott MacDonald 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Does anyone have any experience using NetApp filers to hold Clearcase storage pools, and if so, how did you manage the backups? We're just about to move to them, and we think we should be able to lock the VOBs, copy the db to the filer, then do a local dump (from a snapshot) to DLT. If anyone has any experience they wouldn't mind sharing, I'd love to hear it. TIA, Scott. -- _______________________________________________________________ Scott MacDonald Mobile Systems International Plc Tel: 0171 971 8798 System Administrator Fax: 0171 971 8712 E-Mail: scott(a)msi-uk.com _______________________________________________________________

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Solaris 2.6, multiple IP's and the Netapp?
by rasmus＠lerdorf.on.ca 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

Sun apparently changed something in the way multiple IP's assigned to a single interface behaves in Solaris 2.6. As soon as I turn on hme0:1 my Netapp mounted read/write file system starts behaving oddly. And, if I reboot the machine, then I get a permission denied message when I try to mount. I noticed that the Netapp's arp cache picked up the second ip as soon as I turned it on on the Solaris 2.6 box. On my Solaris 2.5.1 box that sits right next to it, its second IP never shows up in the Netapp arp table. And, the Solaris 2.5.1 box happily mounts things. I tried putting both of the Solaris 2.6 box's ip's in the Netapp /etc/exports file, but I still get a "permission denied" message when I try to mount. Turning off the interface and rebooting the Solaris 2.6 machine fixes things. I can mount the file system again. I really do need multiple IP addresses on these Solaris 2.6 machines though. Is there some sort of workaround that is a little less drastic than reverting to Solaris 2.5.1? (The Filer is a 630 running 4.1c if it makes a difference) -Rasmus

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Re: Solaris 2.6, multiple IP's and the Netapp?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 31 Oct '97

31 Oct '97

On 10/30/97 22:32:23 you wrote: >I tried putting both of the Solaris 2.6 box's ip's in the Netapp >/etc/exports file, but I still get a "permission denied" message when I >try to mount. Turning off the interface and rebooting the Solaris 2.6 >machine fixes things. I can mount the file system again. I haven't had any experience with this explicitly, but if 2.6 is doing some-sort of "load-balancing" among IPs on the interface, there should be a way to turn this feature off. If not, you were on the right track with /etc/exports, but remember that you have to re-run exportfs (I prefer exportfs -av) on the filer for the changes to take effect. Then reboot the Solaris 2.6 client and see what happens. Bruce

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Re: Source NDMP server hangs after successful dump?
by mds46523＠ggr.co.uk 30 Oct '97

30 Oct '97

Well I recognise it! It happened 9 times out of 10 when I was using NDMPCopy a month or so back. The source filer will eventually give up, but only after an hour or two... Because there are 5 sessions for NDMP on a given filer, and I was copying qtrees between filers, I had to spend lots'o time manually setting up and tearing down NDMPCopies - because I couldn't rely on a script keeping the copies going as fast as possible, and I was constrained by time. I also had anomalously low throughput on one pair of filers which remained constant no matter how many concurrent NDMPCopies I set running, and another pair would crash if I tried to set up concurrent NDMPCopies, though the throughput was sufficiently high (ten times the speed of the stable-but-slow pair) that that didn't impact the overall operation. In case you're wondering the first pair was pretty much identical to the second pair, give or take a shelf of disks or two. We've not yet figured out why the difference in stability or performance. The source filers were F540s, the targets were F630s, all on one FDDI ring with two E4000's running 2.5.1 fully and equivalently patched to the gills running the NDMPCopies. Nevertheless, I used to hate setting up back-to-back dump restores and NDMPCopy is gonna be a permanent fixture in our toolbox (until something even better happens 8) On Oct 30, 6:43, Brian Tao wrote: > Subject: Source NDMP server hangs after successful dump? > I downloaded ndmpcopy 1.1 from ftp.ndmp.org and used it to > duplicate the data across filers. In every case using four different > F230's, the dump/restore was successful, but the ndmpcopy never > exits, suggesting the source filer may be hung. All the data was > transferred, and the source filer is still alive and serving NFS, > except it doesn't know that the dump is finished. All the filers are > running 4.2a, as shipped. Is this a known problem? > > # ./ndmpcopy -v adm1-na1:/home/home1 adm1-na3:/home/home3 -sa root:******** -da root:******** > Connecting to adm1-na1. > Connecting to adm1-na3. > adm1-na1: CONNECT: Connection established. > adm1-na3: CONNECT: Connection established. > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: creating "snapshot_for_dump.1" snapshot. > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Oct 29 12:11:30 1997 > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: Dumping /home/home1/ to NDMP connection > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files] > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories] > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: estimated 3373500 tape blocks. > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 15% done, finished in 0:27 > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 32% done, finished in 0:20 > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 49% done, finished in 0:15 > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 66% done, finished in 0:10 > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 82% done, finished in 0:05 > adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 99% done, finished in 0:00 > adm1-na3: HALT: The operation was successful! > Waiting for adm1-na1 to halt too. > (If it sits here forever, the transfer was successful, > but the source filer has hung. Press ^C.) > Elapsed time: 0 hours, 32 minutes, 10 seconds. > > ^C > 0.04u 0.00s 37:02.48 0.0% > > -- > Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)netcom.ca) > "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" >-- End of excerpt from Brian Tao -- -Mark, TSG Unix admin and support, int 782 4412, ext +44 1438 76 4412. ... an Englishman in London ...

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Source NDMP server hangs after successful dump?
by Brian Tao 30 Oct '97

30 Oct '97

I downloaded ndmpcopy 1.1 from ftp.ndmp.org and used it to duplicate the data across filers. In every case using four different F230's, the dump/restore was successful, but the ndmpcopy never exits, suggesting the source filer may be hung. All the data was transferred, and the source filer is still alive and serving NFS, except it doesn't know that the dump is finished. All the filers are running 4.2a, as shipped. Is this a known problem? # ./ndmpcopy -v adm1-na1:/home/home1 adm1-na3:/home/home3 -sa root:******** -da root:******** Connecting to adm1-na1. Connecting to adm1-na3. adm1-na1: CONNECT: Connection established. adm1-na3: CONNECT: Connection established. adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: creating "snapshot_for_dump.1" snapshot. adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: Date of this level 0 dump: Wed Oct 29 12:11:30 1997 adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: Dumping /home/home1/ to NDMP connection adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: mapping (Pass I) [regular files] adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: mapping (Pass II) [directories] adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: estimated 3373500 tape blocks. adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 15% done, finished in 0:27 adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 32% done, finished in 0:20 adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 49% done, finished in 0:15 adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 66% done, finished in 0:10 adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 82% done, finished in 0:05 adm1-na1: LOG: DUMP: 99% done, finished in 0:00 adm1-na3: HALT: The operation was successful! Waiting for adm1-na1 to halt too. (If it sits here forever, the transfer was successful, but the source filer has hung. Press ^C.) Elapsed time: 0 hours, 32 minutes, 10 seconds. ^C 0.04u 0.00s 37:02.48 0.0% -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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Re: Alpha future
by mds46523＠ggr.co.uk 29 Oct '97

29 Oct '97

On Oct 29, 16:01, Alexei Rodriguez wrote: > Subject: Re: Alpha future > +--- In our lifetime, "Gregory M. Paris" <paris(a)bose.com> wrote: > | > | Any thoughts on what the Intel/Digital settlement means to NetApp and > | its customers? It sure looks (to me anyway) as though the Alpha is dead. > I don't think Intel will discontinue the Alpha line, as it would not be in > it's best interests. Especially given the current microprocessor market. > Who is out there that has a good chip? Intel *have* to service Digital's needs for Alpha production. At least that's what I gathered from the announcements about the deals. I'm pretty sure there will be more technology exchange from Digital to Intel over time - Digital's really virtualising its business now, returning in many ways to being a service oriented company. Intel can almost certainly produce Alphas profitably - having the exclusive license to make them may mean Intel's attitude changes. Intel, like Motorola, seem to have few objections to maintaining multiple processor lines as long as they remain profitable and so far as anyone can tell the Alpha 21264 and 21364 at the ridiculous clock speed they're aiming at will stay ahead of the IA64 line. As for the rest, the MIPS line covers the full gamut of v.small to v.powerful CPU's and, as a result, has more sold units per annum than HP-PA, PowerPC and SPARC put together, last time I looked. Check out the Microprocessor report (I think it's at www.chipanalyst.com) for more detailed CPU/DSP industry watching. > > Alexei >-- End of excerpt from Alexei Rodriguez -- -Mark, TSG Unix admin and support, int 782 4412, ext +44 1438 76 4412. ... an Englishman in London ...

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Re: Alpha future
by mds46523＠ggr.co.uk 29 Oct '97

29 Oct '97

I'm not sure I can agree with that. I'm just thinking of the MIPS R1{0,2}K and ULTRASPARC II - those are fabless designs and they are both extant and, as far as I can tell, thriving. Digital were making out that having their own fabs was an advantage...now they're making out that they weren't actually generating revenue in the way Digital likes. *shrug* Besides I suspect that NetApp development could shift to another platform with (to the outside at least) consummate ease if other hot chips seem more viable. I'd be thinking of the TI DSPs myself. On Oct 29, 15:21, Gregory M. Paris wrote: > Subject: Alpha future > Any thoughts on what the Intel/Digital settlement means to NetApp and > its customers? It sure looks (to me anyway) as though the Alpha is dead. > > -- > Gregory M. Paris > Senior Systems Administrator > Bose Corporation Email: paris(a)bose.com > The Mountain, MS#258 Phone: +1 508 766-4072 > Framingham, MA 01701-9168 FAX: +1 508 820-0173 > >-- End of excerpt from Gregory M. Paris -- -Mark, TSG Unix admin and support, int 782 4412, ext +44 1438 76 4412. ... an Englishman in London ...

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Re: File names... on netapp from Mac over CIFS
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 22 Oct '97

22 Oct '97

On 10/22/97 11:45:32 you wrote: >I would suspect that this has to do with extended attributes. I agree with that. Also be aware that there are filenames that are legal under Mac's FS that aren't under NTFS (I think a filename ending with a space is one), so if the NT box is actually using a Mac-compatible filesystem as the share, going from it to an NTFS-compatible filesystem could cause problems. But the poster didn't seem to indicate that this was the case. Bruce

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File names... on netapp from Mac over CIFS
by Jaye Mathisen 22 Oct '97

22 Oct '97

WE have a Digital Alpha server running NT that we were thinking of moving to an F540. The alpha shares via services for Macintosh a local FS to some Macs. We want to move it to the filer, and use some CIFS software for the macs, or NFS. The problem is thusly: The NT box has a whole bunch of files with names that we can't copy to the filer. NT copy chokes when writing to the filer, but works fine copying them from one dir to another on the local drive. If anybody has any ideas on how to address this, I'd really like to hear it.

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F330 SCSI card f/s
by Tom Yates 21 Oct '97

21 Oct '97

since we went to the mixed-disc configuration on one of my F330s, i now have a spare regular SCSI card, netapp official vintage, in perfect working order. yadda yadda. if anyone has any interest in this, make me an offer. no, i have no idea what the hardware maintenance position on this kind of sale would be, but since it was under hardware maintenance while it lived with us, assuming it worked when it first got to you, i would expect it to come under whatever hardware maintenance arrangements you already have. can anyone shed any light on this? Tom Yates - Unix Chap - The Mathworks, Inc. - +1 (508) 647 7561 MAG#65061 DoD#0135 AMA#461546 1024/CFDFDE39 0C E7 46 60 BB 96 87 05 04 BD FB F8 BB 20 C1 8C

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netapp.com gone?
by Brian Tao 21 Oct '97

21 Oct '97

Is it just me, or did netapp.com disappear from the root servers? % dig netapp.com ; <<>> DiG 2.2 <<>> netapp.com ;; res options: init recurs defnam dnsrch ;; got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 6 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; Ques: 1, Ans: 0, Auth: 1, Addit: 0 ;; QUESTIONS: ;; netapp.com, type = A, class = IN ;; AUTHORITY RECORDS: com. 560 SOA A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. hostmaster.INTERNIC.NET. ( 1997102000 ; serial 1800 ; refresh (30 mins) 900 ; retry (15 mins) 604800 ; expire (7 days) 86400 ) ; minimum (1 day) ;; ...truncated ;; Total query time: 11 msec ;; FROM: tor-adm1 to SERVER: default -- 207.181.89.3 ;; WHEN: Tue Oct 21 11:02:47 1997 ;; MSG SIZE sent: 28 rcvd: 105 -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)netcom.ca) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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Re: ndmpcopy - do incrementals work?
by Daniel Quinlan 21 Oct '97

21 Oct '97

> Do incremental updates work with ndmpcopy or are you stuck doing it > all in a single level 0 chunk? > > We are running 4.2aD9 and I have about 25 GB of data to move around. > A level 0 ndmpcopy looks like it will take about 5 hours. Okay, I just read in the ndmpcopy manual that you need 4.3 to do this. Assuming that's true. Can I do an ndmpcopy at level 0 and then do a level 1 dump/restore via a Unix client? - Dan

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ndmpcopy - do incrementals work?
by Daniel Quinlan 21 Oct '97

21 Oct '97

Do incremental updates work with ndmpcopy or are you stuck doing it all in a single level 0 chunk? We are running 4.2aD9 and I have about 25 GB of data to move around. A level 0 ndmpcopy looks like it will take about 5 hours. - Dan

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dump-restore filer to filer
by Daniel Quinlan 19 Oct '97

19 Oct '97

I would like to do a dump-restore directly from one filer to another. Having not done this before, and having the requirement of doing it right, I'd like to ask if anyone else on the list has experience doing this. Here are the details: "source" filer path is "/dir/foo" - a normal directory "dest" filer path is "/dir-foo" - a quota tree "source" is an F540 running 4.1d "dest" is an F630 running 4.2aD9 The directory I want to move contains about 25 GB of data, which changes relatively frequently. First, I'll be doing a level 0 dump, and then a level 1 dump afterwards. Dan

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Re: NT sp3 and CIFS
by Andrew Bond 15 Oct '97

15 Oct '97

Please also note that if you are using a PDC with NT4 SP3 (or NT3.51 SP5), you may have similar problems due to smb signing being disabled. Please refer to http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/q161/3/72.htm The cleartext password document is http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/q166/7/30.htm Thanks and best regards, Andrew Bond Network Appliance Systems Engineer South House 3, Bond Avenue, Milton Keynes, MK1 1SW tel: +44 (0)1908-646688 fax: +44 (0)1908-645996 mobile: +44 (0)468-425236 http://www.netapp.com

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Re: NT sp3 and CIFS - URL's
by Andrew Bond 15 Oct '97

15 Oct '97

I thought I'd just check the URL's I gave earlier, and found that they have moved. Here are the new locations: SMB signing: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q161/3/72.asp Cleartext passwords: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q166/7/30.asp >Return-Path: <madhatta(a)turing.mathworks.com> >X-Sender: frant(a)pop3.demon.co.uk (Unverified) >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:15:01 +0100 >To: Mike Horwath <drechsau(a)tiny.net>, matthew zeier <mrz(a)3com.com> >From: Andrew Bond <andrewb(a)netapp.com> >Subject: Re: NT sp3 and CIFS >Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > >Please also note that if you are using a PDC with NT4 SP3 (or NT3.51 SP5), >you may have similar problems due to smb signing being disabled. > >Please refer to http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/q161/3/72.htm > >The cleartext password document is >http://www.microsoft.com/kb/articles/q166/7/30.htm > > >Thanks and best regards, > >Andrew Bond Network Appliance >Systems Engineer South House 3, Bond Avenue, Milton Keynes, MK1 1SW >tel: +44 (0)1908-646688 fax: +44 (0)1908-645996 >mobile: +44 (0)468-425236 http://www.netapp.com > >

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NT sp3 and CIFS
by matthew zeier 15 Oct '97

15 Oct '97

Has anyone been able to use CIFS off an filer after installing NT 4.0 service pack 3? I can still mount shares from other NT boxes or 95 machines but not from any of my filers. Dunno if this is a bug with the filter (4.1dD4) or the service pack. - mz -- matthew zeier -- mrz(a)3com.com -- 3Com EWD Engineering -- 408/764-8420 ...................................................................... "Y el mundo se mueve, mas rapido y mejor." - Fey

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Re: NT sp3 and CIFS
by Tracy Howard 14 Oct '97

14 Oct '97

You can also refer to the following Tip and Technique document on NOW (NetApp's online support site). The document provides links to several other documents to get additional information about NTSP3 and CIFS. http://now.netapp.com/cgi-bin/tans/tanview.cgi?tan=1132 If you do not have an account for NOW, fill out the request for password to get into the site. At 01:19 PM 10/14/97 -0500, Mike Horwath wrote: >On Tue, Oct 14, 1997 at 10:06:59AM -0700, matthew zeier had written: >> >> Has anyone been able to use CIFS off an filer after installing NT 4.0 >> service pack 3? I can still mount shares from other NT boxes or 95 >> machines but not from any of my filers. Dunno if this is a bug with the >> filter (4.1dD4) or the service pack. > >After installing SP3, NT defaults to encrypted passwords. > >You need to turn that off. > >The MS knowledgebase system can tell you how to fix it, but I can't >remember the article number. > >-- >Mike Horwath IRC: Drechsau LIFE: Lover drechsau(a)yuck.net >Visi: info(a)visi.com drechsau(a)Geeks.ORG >Twin Cities area Internet Access: 612-288-0880 for more info >The founding member of Minn. Coalition for Internet Accessibility > > *********************************************************** Tracy Howard Customer Satisfaction NOW Project Manager tracy(a)netapp.com

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quota overhead questions
by Daniel Quinlan 14 Oct '97

14 Oct '97

Howdy. Can someone tell me the performance impact of using quotas (all types)? How much disk space and memory is used to store quota information? How long does a "quota off; quota on" take to complete on a fully- populated filesystem? Thanks. Dan

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Re: DLT stackers for NetApp?
by Arnie Thompson 14 Oct '97

14 Oct '97

At 03:29 PM 10/13/97 -0500, Gregory Gulik wrote: > >I heard once that the NetApps support DLT stackers (not >libraries) so you can automatically do multi-volume backups >without manual intervention. We support the DLT4700 and Breece-Hill Q2.15 devices in stacker mode with our native "dump" command. Using NDMP with a control host allows you to use the library mode of these devices as well. NDMP allows the control host to manipulate the jukebox robotics. > >Is this true? > >If so, which tape stackers are supported? > > > >

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Re: DLT stackers for NetApp?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 14 Oct '97

14 Oct '97

On 10/13/97 17:02:01 you wrote: >+--- In our lifetime, "Gregory Gulik" <greg(a)wwa.com> wrote: >| >| >| I heard once that the NetApps support DLT stackers (not >| libraries) so you can automatically do multi-volume backups >| without manual intervention. > > >Not sure which models are supported. Anything that is simply a tape drive that runs in a "stacker" or "autoloader" mode (not a "smart" library mode) should work. I have had great success with Quantum's DLT-4700, and I believe (not positive) that for 7000-level backup, the Breece Hill Q.45 was currently the recommended choice. However, I don't see why something like the DLTStor from Quantum wouldn't work with a 7000 in it, or something like a DLT-7700, if they ever release such a product. >The problem with hanging a >stacker off of the filer (or any machine for that matter) is that >they have a strong tendency to hang. Thus you need to reboot the filer >to clear the scsi fault. Not something I can do too frequently >to my filer :) Having done literally thousands of backups on Netapp equipment, I can honestly say that I've *never* had this problem. Tape drives may go bad, but I've never had it just "hang" due to a SCSI problem between it and the filer that requires a reboot. >Not sure if being able to send a scsi reset to the bus would clear the >fault. Perhaps that would be an interesting feature request.... If the bus is truly "hung", any attempt to talk to the tape drive will hang, and the bus will automatically be reset after failed attempts to talk to the drive. So any old mt command should work. If this is not happening for you, I suspect the problem isn't a SCSI bus "hang" per se, but is in fact something else. Certainly, power-cycling the tape drive should clear any problems; if you have to power-cycle the filer, I'm tempted more the believe that you had a "dump in progress" according to the filer's internal state (which is, IMHO, a problem, but a different one from what you mention). If it really is SCSI problems, I would encourage you (if you haven't already) to contact Netapp support... it could be something as simple as termination, or you might need a new cable or SCSI card. Finally, one could always suspect the DLT drive itself as having bad firmware or some other hardware problem... I can tell you that the DLT-4700 does work, so if you can get one to test, you might be able to use that the isolate where the problem is before fiddling with other components. Perhaps I am taking your description of a bus hang too literally, and you actually are experiencing a different problem, but in that case I would need more detail to help. Bruce

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DLT stackers for NetApp?
by Gregory Gulik 13 Oct '97

13 Oct '97

I heard once that the NetApps support DLT stackers (not libraries) so you can automatically do multi-volume backups without manual intervention. Is this true? If so, which tape stackers are supported?

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migrating an F330 to a mixed-disc configuration
by Tom Yates 13 Oct '97

13 Oct '97

well, that was an interesting weekend. we dump/restore upgraded an F330 to a mixed-disc configuration. i thought i'd share some of the high points in case anyone else is thinking of doing this. i'd add that i'm typing this at 0300 on monday, so excuse the typos. this is also quite long, so feel free to ignore completely. if you just want to find my recommendations, look for digits in column one. that F330 had three shelves of 4Gb FSCSI discs. we wanted to upgrade to two shelves of 4Gb FSCSI discs and one shelf of 9Gb FWSCSI discs. ONTAP 4.2 is a prerequisite for this, so we'd been running stably at 4.2 for about ten days prior to the weekend (thanks, ja mah). our vendor (OSS) was lending us an F330 with two shelves of 9Gb FWSCSIs to dump my toaster to, as i'd prefer not to get 98% of the way through a tape restore and have i/o errors (thanks, OSS). design note: first impression on the eurologics shelves. these things came from the hans giger school of weird and creepy alien design. also, they look substantially less well-made than the old storageworks shelves. i'm putting that down to the lack of a guide bar ensuring that all the discs are precisely lined up. not that it matters. i hope. having installed the loaner toaster, the question of how to dump arose. i'd already borrowed an Ultra-2 from another project, and set it up as administration host for both local and loaner toasters. we'd heard that good things arose from fddi - dump times very significantly faster than even 100bT - so we tried using fddi/cddi on all three boxes connected to our cddi/fddi concentrator. the dump failed after about ninety minutes. just hung. i presumed that this was due to the cddi drivers being somewhat old, and decided to punt to 100bT, connecting all machines to our main switch (catalyst 5000). the dump hung after about ninety minutes. i presumed that this was an old dump bug biting us and down-rev'ed the local toaster to 4.0.1cD10 (which it had been running stably for some while before this) and restarted the dump over 100bT. the dump hung after about ninety minutes. i presumed i was being stupid and needed sleep and went home. in the light of day, some console messages gave us a clue to the truth: our cisco router was lying about the ethernet address of the administration host, and the local toaster was losing touch with the admin host. although this is a feature of our local network topology, i think recommendation one has to be 1) use a private network. i don't care how good your main networking kit is, you can do without the other packets. we put them onto a private fddi/cddi conentrator and started the dump. whilst it didn't hang, i wasn't getting stellar dump times, so we aborted the dump, and moved everything onto a private 100bT switch. dump times were much better, which i put down to the fddi drivers on the Sun being somewhat crufty, whilst the FE drivers are cutting-edge. recommendation two: 2) doesn't matter how great fddi is if the drivers aren't stellar. FE may well be better. if anyone's curious, the dump syntax was brutally simple: admin# rsh local "dump 0f - /" | rsh loaner "restore rfD - /restore" dumps finished about midnight (after an excellent sushi dinner for the unix and networking crew. thanks, shogun 9.). it took fifteen hours to dump 70Gb over FE, with fairly aggressive writing on the destination toaster (continuous writes and CPU at 70-80%). which leads me to 3) the netapp white paper on migration suggests doing a level 0 to your destination machine in work time a day or so beforehand, and following up with a level 1 in downtime. i really wish i'd done that instead of doing my level zero in (expensive) downtime. i then zeroed out all the disc labels on my toaster (floppy boot, option 5) and pulled off the third shelf. removed slot 9 SCSI card, replaced it with FWSCSI card, tried to boot. F330 hangs in "probing devices" phase of boot. thanks to some excellent late-night phone support by tony liu (MANY thanks, tony) it turns out that the FWSCSI card requires firmware 1.6, although ONTAP 4.2 doesn't. i'd already asked my vendor that question directly and got a different answer (grumble). emergency firmware upgrade to 1.6 ensues. toaster now boots, so i can get on with making a new file system (floppy boot, option 4). you've never known true nervousness until you watch all your users' home directories being newfs'ed. we've been told that the correct way to get a 9Gb and a 4Gb hot spare is to allow the newfs to allocate a 9Gb hot spare, and then RAID SWAP in a 4Gb into a slot left unoccupied in shelf 0. when we try the RAID SWAP, the bus fails to reset properly, and the damn thing goes into a variety of raid panic situations. all discs in the shelf on slot 0 are also showing amber "failure" lights, although they appear to work fine. lengthy calls to netapp fail to rectify this problem, and it's getting to the point where the restore won't finish until after 0001 monday, which is getting closer to the promised 0700 "everything back" time than i'd like, so i decided to go with a system which seems to handle the hot spare disc correctly - in the event of a disc failure, it RAID reconstructs to the 9Gb hot spare - but can't do hot swap. it's no worse than my old 450s, though i hope netapp will be able to rectify this later in the week, as does tony. the precise positioning of the thin gray ribbon cable that used to go to the narrow SCSI card in slot 9 seems to be an important unknown, since i understand this cable is responsible for carrying raid swap information around. in the event, the restore finishes around 0130 monday, and the servers (mostly) restart happily. summary: any migration involving a dump-and-restore is highly traumatic. we were right to avoid this when we went to the F330s, and we'd be well advised to avoid it in any future migrations - data copy to a new toaster is tolerable for our datasets, but copy-and-back isn't viable any more. the mixed-shelf configuration isn't exactly bug-free yet. sleep is a much under-rated phenomenon. Tom Yates - Unix Chap - The Mathworks, Inc. - +1 (508) 647 7561 MAG#65061 DoD#0135 AMA#461546 1024/CFDFDE39 0C E7 46 60 BB 96 87 05 04 BD FB F8 BB 20 C1 8C

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Re: migrating an F330 to a mixed-disc configuration
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 13 Oct '97

13 Oct '97

Three comments: 1. Dump and restore is traumatic, but it's really the best way for large datasets. I think what it tells you more is: plan ahead! Know the limits of the filer you have so you won't have to do migration ahead of time, and when you do have to do it, know all the steps involved and have a good backoff plan. Also, backup and restore is much, much better than it used to be... I would not try this scheme with anything less than the latest software. 2. Your comment about the CDDI drivers is very true. I have also found the old Crescendo/Cisco cards to be lacking, and have had the best success with the NuBus CDDI cards. 3. Sounds like the bottom line for the mixed-shelf scheme is: "not yet." Still some bugs and lack of enough documentation. Oh, and always go direct instead of through third-party vendors if you can, but I came to that conclusion a long time ago... it applies to almost all computer companies, not just Netapp. Bruce PS - How about the NTAP stock?

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