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13531 discussions

Re: Bad HD (fwd)
by beepy＠netapp.com 08 Sep '98

08 Sep '98

I think our system goes into 'degraded' mode when no spare is present. I'm the degenerate. (some mail misaddresses running around.) > Not quite. A failed disk will send the system into 'degenerated' mode if > there is no spare present. The system will shut down after 24 hours in > degenerated mode as a failsafe. However, if a spare disk *is* present, the > system goes into 'reconstruction' mode and rebuilds the failed disk. Once > reconstructed the system is back up and running as usual with no threat of > a failsafe shutdown. > If you have 2 hot spare disks, and one is used to rebuild a failed disk, > then you will have one spare disk remaining. > > leila.mutevelic(a)rss.rockwell.com wrote: > > > Is it true that when one HD goes bad, it will be reconstructed on the > > hotspare, but if you don't pull out bad HD and replace it within the 24 > > hours system will shutdown? > > What happens in a case if you have 2 hotspare? > > > > Thanks, > > --Leila. > > > > -- > Shannon Madison <shannon(a)netapp.com> > Technical Education Manager > > Network Appliance, Inc. > 2770 San Tomas Expressway > Santa Clara, CA 95051 > USA > > Work: (408) 367-3574 > Fax: (408) 367-2151 > > The usual disclaimers apply. > > ----- End of forwarded message from Brian Pawlowski -----

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Bad HD
by leila.mutevelic＠rss.rockwell.com 08 Sep '98

08 Sep '98

Is it true that when one HD goes bad, it will be reconstructed on the hotspare, but if you don't pull out bad HD and replace it within the 24 hours system will shutdown? What happens in a case if you have 2 hotspare? Thanks, --Leila.

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OnTap
by Wm Kevin Shaw 08 Sep '98

08 Sep '98

What is the latest and most stable version of OnTap for a F630 (Non F-CAL)? What configuration issues and bugs should I be aware of? Any Info on configuring CIFS for this version of OnTap would also be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Kevin

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what is the safest way to shutdown the system?
by leila.mutevelic＠rss.rockwell.com 08 Sep '98

08 Sep '98

What would be the safest way to shutdown the system? Thanks, --Leila.

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CODA support on NetApp
by Dan Bethe 06 Sep '98

06 Sep '98

Hi there everyone. What is the likelihood of NetApp ever supporting the CODA filesystem? http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu Thanks! ` ~ ^ ' ~ ' ` ^ ~ ~ ^ ' ~ ` ` ~ ' ^ ` ~ ~ ` " ` ~ ' ^ " ^ ` ~ ' ~ ^ " ' ~ ` ^ ~ "If I seem too inconclusive, well it's just because it's so elusive." This email has been licensed by the GPL (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy) Dan ((((now seeking a Linux/Unix sysadmin job in Silicon Valley!)))) Bethe

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Re: CODA support on NetApp
by Daniel Quinlan 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

Dan Bethe <dtm(a)hex.net> writes: >> Hi there everyone. What is the likelihood of NetApp ever >> supporting the CODA filesystem? >> http://www.coda.cs.cmu.edu Brian Pawlowski <beepy(a)netapp.com> writes: > As in grandson of AFS, disconnected operation? > > I'm curious, who is supporting it now? Many of our engineers who encounter problems using NFS have asked us about CODA and AFS. I am more interested in fixing some of the problems we encounter with NFS rather than introducing new ones, but CODA might be the answer. So, does NetApp have a better answer? - Dan

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volumes and RAID groups
by Brian Rice 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

I just got in an F630 with 5.0.2 and four fully-loaded differential shelves. Yowza. It showed up with one volume, vol0, two RAID groups (one for each pair of shelves, I guess), and only two disks in use, in vol0. I want to live dangerously, with one big volume and one RAID group for it. After all, that's how my other F630's running 4.x are configured, and it's worked fine for a long time. So naturally I did something stooopid. I (a) added all the disks, except for a spare, to vol0, (b) set the RAID group size of vol0 to 26, and then (c) noticed in the 5.x documentation that setting the RAID group size AFTER the fact don't do squat. :-( I might have had a prayer if I'd done (b) then (a). Here's what I have now: pacer> sysconfig -r Volume vol0 RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.Disk_ID Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ---------- -------------- -------------- parity 8b.13 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.14 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.1 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.1 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.2 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.3 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.4 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.5 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.8 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.9 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.10 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.11 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.12 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.13 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 RAID group 1 RAID Disk HA.Disk_ID Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ---------- -------------- -------------- parity 8b.2 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8a.14 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.3 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.4 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.5 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.8 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.9 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.10 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.11 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 data 8b.12 8600/17612800 8683/17783240 Spare disks RAID Disk HA.Disk_ID Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ---------- -------------- -------------- spare 8b.0 0 8683/17783240 spare 8a.0 0 8683/17783240 And what I want to have is only one RAID group, 0, with one parity and one spare. It looks like I am going to have to clobber vol0 and start over. Am I right? Anybody have experience with offlining then destroying vol0? Brian Rice brice(a)gnac.com

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Re: volumes and RAID groups
by Daniel Quinlan 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

Mike Horwath <drechsau(a)tiny.net> writes: > So, with 2 raid groups...it is all still one filesystem? It can be with either one filesystem or two (each one with a single RAID group). There is a nice picture and explanation at: http://www.netapp.com/technology/level3/3027.html To avoid fragmentation problems (as in "I have 50 GB free on one filesystem and 50 GB free on another, but I need 100 GB in one place"), all of our filers are single volume (filesystem). Using multiple RAID groups is a much easier decision. Dan

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Re: volumes and RAID groups
by Brian Rice 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

Actually, I thought of another way to get one RAID group: wipe the filer, install 4.x on it, and then uprev it... B-) I am a big fan of having only one configuration, where possible. My other filers are at 4.3.4 right now, and when I upgrade those to 5.1Dx, they will have only one RAID group. I see no reason for this one to be special. My F630's have among them thousands 'n' thousands of hours of run time. I have yet to see a single disk failure, let alone a double-disk failure (knock knock). And I have no plans to put more shelves on them. Finally, if I have one more RAID group, that'll mean one more hot spare plus one more parity disk. When you take into account the purchase of my entire F630, two disks set aside for safety have an opportunity cost (at list prices) of just over $12,000. Is that safety worth $12,000 to me? Well, maybe it is: the not-backed-up-yet data on the rest of a RAID group could exceed $12,000 in replacement value. And maybe it isn't: these failures seem unlikely enough to make that $12,000 feel like earthquake insurance in Bismarck, N.D. Guess this is for me to figure out, huh? Brian

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Re: volumes and RAID groups
by Daniel Quinlan 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

hitz(a)netapp.com (Dave Hitz) writes: > But in addition, RAID reconstruction is much faster. When you > reconstruct a failed drive, you have to read all the data on all the > other drives, so if your RAID groups are half as big, then the > reconstruction goes twice as fast. My experience is that reconstruction is more than twice as fast. More like quadruple, depending on server load and size of the RAID group. Does NetApp have recent numbers on reconstruct time? Especially under various NFS loads (reading/writing to disk, not just cache, so the disks are loaded as well). Dan

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Re: volumes and RAID groups
by Daniel Quinlan 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

Dave Hitz wrote: >> So at one parity disk per 14 the overhead is 1/14 = 7%, and at one >> parity disk per 26 the overhead is 3.8%. Brian Rice <brice(a)gnac.com> writes: > The cost per usable gigabyte of my F630's has received *considerable* > executive scrutiny recently. So I'm just a leeeetle sensitive about this > kind of thing. You *really* want to use one RAID group per 14 disks. Trust me. Right now, we have 3 F630 systems (40 disk SCSI, 40 disk SCSI, and 26 disk FC). On our first F630, we have a 26 disk RAID group because multiple RAID groups weren't available at the time. On that RAID group, disk reconstructions seem to take forever. Once it took 23 hours, under only moderate load. I tried cranking the raid.reconstruct_speed dial higher (I think I had it set to 3), but then everyone starting getting "nfs server not responding" errors. So, not only are you subject to greater risk during those 23 hours, but your users will complain about how slow everything is (even if the dial is set at 2 or 3). Let's face it, NetApps don't perform very well during disk reconstruction. On a 14 disk RAID group on an F630, the slowest reconstruction we've finished in under 4 hours. The fastest was under 2 hours (on the F630 FC). I guess it's important to note that disk reconstruction speed does not increase linearly. Double the disks in a RAID group and it can easily quadruple the time. Dan

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Re: volumes and RAID groups
by Brian Rice 05 Sep '98

05 Sep '98

Dave Hitz wrote: > So at one parity disk per 14 the overhead is 1/14 = 7%, and at one > parity disk per 26 the overhead is 3.8%. The cost per usable gigabyte of my F630's has received *considerable* executive scrutiny recently. So I'm just a leeeetle sensitive about this kind of thing. > So are you dead-set on living dangerously? Maybe, maybe not. My experience with my existing (identical) F630's suggests I can get away with it. On the other hand, it's bad karma to turn away a life jacket when somebody offers you one "just in case." So I dunno. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I did decide to live dangerously. So...what's the best way to get a vol0 with one RAID group in it? Brian brice(a)gnac.com

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Re: Support for Network Time Protocol?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 04 Sep '98

04 Sep '98

On 09/04/98 00:12:22 you wrote: > >I thought this follow-up (to a thread from several months ago) might be >interesting for people at sites that stress time synchronization. > >Daniel Quinlan <quinlan(a)transmeta.com> wrote: > >> To prevent it from happening again, we're remotely monitoring the >> system time of the adminhost (using "mon") to make sure it doesn't >> drift off again. Incidentally, there seems to be no way to remotely >> query the system time from a NetApp (except by creating a new file and >> running stat() on it, or by using unsupported/hidden commands). > >So, I started monitoring the time with the kludgey method of creating a >file and using stat() on it. I wasn't very happy with that method >because it tended to give false alerts, so I eventually disabled it. > >Earlier this week, we had another problem with time synchronization. It >wasn't actually the NetApp, but I still had to rule it out because it >wasn't being monitored. I tried port-scanning a NetApp, looking for some >hidden protocol that might let me reliably query the time. Here's what I >found: > > port tcp udp > ----- ----------- ----------- > 23 telnet - > 80 http - > 111 sunrpc sunrpc > 137 - netbios-ns > 138 - netbios-dgm > 139 netbios-ssn - > 161 - snmp > 514 shell syslog > 520 - route > 602 - unknown > 603 unknown - > 604 - unknown > 605 unknown - > 606 - unknown > 607 unknown - > 608 - unknown > 609 unknown - > 618 - unknown > 619 - unknown > 620 unknown - > 1063 - unknown > 2049 nfs nfs > 10000 unknown - > >A lot of unknown services (ones not listed in /etc/services, some are >probably NDMP. I thought the 600 ports were for rsh, but by they alternate between TCP and UDP, and aren't contiguous, I don't know. I have no idea what 10000 is for. Bruce

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Re: Support for Network Time Protocol?
by Daniel Quinlan 04 Sep '98

04 Sep '98

Daniel Quinlan <quinlan(a)transmeta.com> writes: > I'm also interesting in NTP support, but I think I'd like to see the > current software become a lot more reliable (and complete) before > adding another new feature. All I need is more NetApp crashes because > of NTP bugs. I should add that this happened to us just a few days ago: - xntpd died on our adminhost (that ran the cron job to set the NetApp dates) - time drifted by 8 minutes on the adminhost and the filers over the course over a few days - someone started having problems, managed to figure out that it was because of the time drift, and we fixed it. (Other people probably had problems, but didn't report them.) To prevent it from happening again, we're remotely monitoring the system time of the adminhost (using "mon") to make sure it doesn't drift off again. Incidentally, there seems to be no way to remotely query the system time from a NetApp (except by creating a new file and running stat() on it, or by using unsupported/hidden commands). However, I'm still saying that I don't want NTP until other supported protocols (such as NDMP) start working reliably. Dan

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Calling all F630/FC-AL users
by just me. 02 Sep '98

02 Sep '98

If you are a NetApp F630/FC-AL user and have encountered any (especially recurring) glitches with interactions between the Fibre Channel host adapter and OnTAP, or recurring FC hardware failures I'd appreciate hearing from you. On the flip side, if you are a NetApp F630/FC-AL user and have seen perfect performance from your filer, I'd love to hear about it too. We have had the first F630/FC-AL in Japan in our machine room for the last month or so, and have been through some interesting experiences. Thanks, Matt Ghali --matt(a)bikkle.interq.or.jp------------------------------------------- Matt Ghali MG406/GM023JP - System Administrator, interQ, Inc AS7506 "Sub-optimal is a state of mind." -Dave Rand, <dlr(a)bungi.com>

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Re: Seeing quad 10/100 ethernet ports from NT
by Matt Day 02 Sep '98

02 Sep '98

Cliff Johnson <yrsuser(a)televar.com> wrote: >We have a new F230 installed here (5.1R1, 1.9i firmware), >with a Quad 10/100 card in it. I've configured the 4 ports, >and have no problems talking to (or mounting NFS from) any >of them from the Unix side of the house. > >Unfortunately, the only network connection that shows up >on the NT side of the house is the one on the F230 mother- >board (e0), which is not the one I want the users accessing. > >I can map a network drive using the 4 "other names", (only >if I attach as "nobody", but that's probably another problem), >but I can only "see" the main port in the network neighborhood. >And I'd rather the users not have to memorize the names of the >different ports. > >[..] Hi Cliff, Is your filer's CIFS configured for WINS? If it is, then the filer should be registering all your interfaces with the WINS server using the standard WINS multihomed registration protocol. (This is how a multihomed NT server would register with WINS.) In that situation, CIFS clients that use WINS resolution will choose one of the filer's IP addresses from the registered list. (Depending on the type of client, the address selection algorithm varies; for example, older Microsoft clients tend to choose the address randomly, while NT4 SP3 clients try to be more intelligent. Microsoft's MSDN support web site has some articles detailing this -- try searching for "multihomed" and/or "WINS".) (By the way, as of version 5.1 of Data ONTAP there is a new ifconfig option, "-wins", that can be used to disable WINS registration for a particular interface. It's documented in the na_ifconfig(1) man page. Maybe you should try setting that option on your e0 interface?) If your filer's CIFS is *not* configured for WINS, then CIFS should be broadcasting its presence on each of its interfaces. For example, if you have two interfaces, e0 at 10.0.0.1 and e1 at 192.168.0.1, CIFS will periodically send a broadcast on e0 that reads "FILER is at 10.0.0.1", and on e1 the broadcast will read "FILER is at 192.168.0.1". (Note that each packet only mentions the IP address for its particular interface.) This is how an NT server that isn't configured for WINS would announce itself. Hope that helps some - let me know! Matt Day <mday(a)netapp.com> Network Appliance, Inc.

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Seeing quad 10/100 ethernet ports from NT
by yrsuser 01 Sep '98

01 Sep '98

Hello, We have a new F230 installed here (5.1R1, 1.9i firmware), with a Quad 10/100 card in it. I've configured the 4 ports, and have no problems talking to (or mounting NFS from) any of them from the Unix side of the house. Unfortunately, the only network connection that shows up on the NT side of the house is the one on the F230 mother- board (e0), which is not the one I want the users accessing. I can map a network drive using the 4 "other names", (only if I attach as "nobody", but that's probably another problem), but I can only "see" the main port in the network neighborhood. And I'd rather the users not have to memorize the names of the different ports. I can use the server manager on the PDC to add the other 4 names, but they only show up as ghosts, and the PDC tells me that they are not responding if I try to do anything else with them. (I can ping them, though). Any thoughts? I really don't want to use the main motherboard network connection (currently 10Mbps) to handle anything other than Root telnet sessions to the filer. Cliff Johnson yrsuser(a)televar.com

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subscribe
by Chris Ruffieux 31 Aug '98

31 Aug '98

subscribe toasters

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RE: Redbrick?
by Clarke, Bruce 27 Aug '98

27 Aug '98

We have one customer in South Africa that is known to have put Redbrick on a filer. I have been told its in an NT environment. Attempts by NetApp to get Redbrick "officially" interested have so far gone unanswered. If you would like to drop my name to the Redbrick sales rep, please feel free to do so. Bruce Clarke Database Market Development Manager Network Appliance Inc. 2770 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95051 USA Phone: 1-408-367-3156 Fax: 1-408-367-3670 Email: bclarke(a)netapp.com Web: www.netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Alexei Rodriguez [mailto:alexei@cimedia.com] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 10:58 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Redbrick? Ok, so Oracle works on the filers. No problem. Has anybody tried other database systems? Redbrick? Marketing folks here are looking at building some multi-terrabyte databases (don't ask; they are forking the money over) and I am trying to see what the different possibilities are. Thanks. Alex

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Redbrick?
by Alexei Rodriguez 27 Aug '98

27 Aug '98

Ok, so Oracle works on the filers. No problem. Has anybody tried other database systems? Redbrick? Marketing folks here are looking at building some multi-terrabyte databases (don't ask; they are forking the money over) and I am trying to see what the different possibilities are. Thanks. Alex

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"quota resize" still doesn't work right on 5.0.2
by Stephen C. Losen 27 Aug '98

27 Aug '98

We have a default quota of 10M, which is the first line in /etc/quotas: * user 10M 10K Here is a quota report for a user with no entry in /etc/quotas: quota report /h1/s/sj/sjs3j Type ID Volume Tree Used Limit Used Limit Quota Specifier ----- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- -------- -------- --------------- user 30967 vol0 - 472 10240 113 10240 So now I add this line to /etc/quotas /h1/s/sj/sjs3j user 20M 20K And I run quota resize quota report /h1/s/sj/sjs3j Type ID Volume Tree Used Limit Used Limit Quota Specifier ----- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- -------- -------- --------------- user 30967 vol0 - 472 10240 113 10240 The quota for this user has not changed. Only turning quotas off and back on does the trick. The quota resize command issued no error. I read an earlier post to this list that indicated that this was fixed. Has anyone actually gotten this to work? Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 804-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support

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RE: "quota resize" still doesn't work right on 5.0.2
by Datta, Diptish 26 Aug '98

26 Aug '98

Stephen, This is documented as bug 5660. This is indeed the way it works now but a fix for this will be available in a future release. If this is a critical issue please call/email Tech Support for a solution. -diptish -----Original Message----- From: Stephen C. Losen [mailto:scl@sasha.acc.virginia.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 10:15 AM To: toasters(a)turing.mathworks.com Subject: "quota resize" still doesn't work right on 5.0.2 We have a default quota of 10M, which is the first line in /etc/quotas: * user 10M 10K Here is a quota report for a user with no entry in /etc/quotas: quota report /h1/s/sj/sjs3j Type ID Volume Tree Used Limit Used Limit Quota Specifier ----- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- -------- -------- --------------- user 30967 vol0 - 472 10240 113 10240 So now I add this line to /etc/quotas /h1/s/sj/sjs3j user 20M 20K And I run quota resize quota report /h1/s/sj/sjs3j Type ID Volume Tree Used Limit Used Limit Quota Specifier ----- -------- -------- -------- ------- ------- -------- -------- --------------- user 30967 vol0 - 472 10240 113 10240 The quota for this user has not changed. Only turning quotas off and back on does the trick. The quota resize command issued no error. I read an earlier post to this list that indicated that this was fixed. Has anyone actually gotten this to work? Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 804-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support

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Re: rw? no, ro.
by Andrew Bond 23 Aug '98

23 Aug '98

Jim, >Any ideas? This is a busy system so rebooting from floppy to bypass the >rc file and then trying another admin host is something I'd like to avoid, >though at this stage I don't see an alternative. You can unexport root using "exportfs -u /" (note that the root may alternatively be exported as /vol/vol0/ at release 5.x) You can use "exportfs -i -o access=new.admin.host,root=new.admin.host /" to re-export the root directory to a different host or list of hosts. Have you opened a call with our support on this? Andrew Bond System Engineer, NetApp UK

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exports syntax
by just me. 22 Aug '98

22 Aug '98

Has anyone found better documentation on 'exports' syntax than the crappy 'administrators' guide once-over? I am specifically interested in using a 'files' based netgroups map to clean up permissions, however the administrators guide suggests that usage is somewhat non-intuitave (as does my experimental results) yet stops short of providing useful information. It does however reference one of the mysterious man pages, which I have never been able to get Netapp to give me. In fact they deny their existance. Anyone got the skinny? thanks. --matt(a)bikkle.interq.or.jp------------------------------------------- Matt Ghali MG406/GM023JP - System Administrator, interQ, Inc AS7506 "Sub-optimal is a state of mind." -Dave Rand, <dlr(a)bungi.com>

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Snapshot Bug
by Raymond Brennan 21 Aug '98

21 Aug '98

Hello, I've run into a snapshot bug and was wondering if anyone else had. The details are basically that the filer ( an F520 with 128 Gb of disk, 128 Mb RAM, a Dec ALPHA CPU and running ONTAP 5.1D3) hangs when creating snapshots as instructed by BudTool. It is an ONTAP problem and is stopping me from doing backups. Has anyone else been hit with this ? :)

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