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13515 discussions

Proposed List - Cache Toasters
by Nigel Metheringham 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Since the toasters list appears successful and has been very useful to us, I would like to propose a new list for discussion of NetApp Caches. In a very similar way to the current toasters list, the new list would be independent of NetApp. Hopefully it would similarly attract some participation from NetApp people and be the basis for users to self support one another, gripe where needed, and bounce ideas off walls to see how they look. Planet uses a number of NetApp caches here at our Leeds UK site. We run a couple of mailing lists already and I am happy to add this one to our set. Alternatively if there are good reasons to host elsewhere then I'm willing to listen. I'd also be proposing that the list be mirrored into an web archiving service such as findmail.com. I'd like an expression of support or otherwise to see if its worth starting up the list. If any comments can be sent to the address cache-toasters(a)theplanet.net then I will collect these together in a few days and summarise to the lists. The reply address on this mail is set to the above address. Please note that this is not the list address and should it come into being it probably won't have that address. Comments, flames, praise etc back to me at the cache-toasters address. One last thing.... we really would need a cool name! Any puns on make-cache-fast will not be entertained :-) Nigel. -- [ Nigel.Metheringham(a)theplanet.net - Systems Software Engineer ] [ Tel : +44 113 207 6112 Fax : +44 113 234 6065 ] [ Real life is but a pale imitation of a Dilbert strip ] [ We're recruiting http://www.theplanet.net/profile/recruit.htm ]

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Re: dump 'ignore dir' option?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

On 12/07/98 21:30:17 you wrote: > >Is there any easy way of telling 'dump' to ignore one or more >directories? It seems like every filer I archive has at least one >HUGE directory full of unvital compressed files that causes the dump >to span tapes. Simple solution would be to move that directory to it's own toplevel directory and/or quota tree (/logs is a good name). In fact, you could do that for all your filers, or put the all the logs on the same filer. Point the old directories to the new one via symlink if need be. Bruce

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dump 'ignore dir' option?
by Dave Cole 08 Dec '98

08 Dec '98

Is there any easy way of telling 'dump' to ignore one or more directories? It seems like every filer I archive has at least one HUGE directory full of unvital compressed files that causes the dump to span tapes. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Cole (DC1110) | dacole(a)netcom.ca Systems Administrator |* dacole(a)rik.net * | office/~dacole/ Netcom Canada |* www.rik.net/~dacole/ * 905 King Street West, Toronto, M6K 3G9 | phone - 416.341.5801 Toronto, Ontario, Canada, Earth, Sol | fax - 416.341.5725

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input request
by Patrick.Day.B＠bayer.com 03 Dec '98

03 Dec '98

I am having trouble with my tape changer and am curious as to if anyone else has this problem. I have a netfiler 740 (w/ Ontap 5.1.2) with a Quantum PowerStore L500 Library (DLT7000). It refuses to change tapes when I run the appropriate DUMP command. If anyone has experienced this and/or has a solution, any input would be appreciated. Thanx W. Patrick Day Sys Admin Bayer Corporation patrick.day.b(a)bayer.com

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SNMP and Quota trees
by Ketil Kirkerud Elgethun 26 Nov '98

26 Nov '98

We're using MRTG with our filers, and a smallish problem has cropped up : When querying for quotas, we really do not want to know the user quotas, just the tree quotas. This is easy if we feed MRTG with the index number of the tree, but one of our filers has, in addition to 2 quota trees, 65000 users. We do not want to sift through 65K entries just to find what interests us - is there any way to just query for quota _trees_ ? Does anyone have an elegant solution ? (yes, we _can_ use /etc/quotas, yes, it's possible to do an 'rsh filer quota qtree', but we'd rather use SNMP, if at all possible) -- ---Ketil Kirkerud Elgethun, SOL System

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None
by Bam 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

subscribe ************************************************* Bam Gobets Technical Support Engineer 1-888-4NetApp x3527 "I'll get right on that with thinking." -Officer Barbrady, South Park Police Dept. **************************************************

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Re: snapshot and df does not match?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

On 11/17/98 09:26:50 you wrote: > >Hi All, > >Eventhough my snap list shows less than 100%, Why my df command shows >130%? > >Is there any hidden files that I need to delete? >How does this sanp list matches with df's capacity? The percentages in snap list have always been a little confusing. I think they give you the amount of space the snapshot takes up relative to the total disk space used on the filer, and the total disk space available on the filer. Neither of which would relate to the space you've chosen to reserve for snapshots. I could be wrong, though; I don't have a man page handy and frankly, I've always pretty much ignored the values in snap list as they didn't really contain any useful information to me. All the 130% means is that you've exceeded your snapshot reserve. You have a couple of choices: 1. If you think this is typical and don't mind the space usage, increase your snapshot reserve. 2. If you think this is typical and DO mind the space usage, you will need to change your snapshot schedule to exclude, for example, the weekly snapshots. 3. If you think this is not typical, and you simply had a bunch of stuff deleted this week, you can either live with it for a day or two until it's deleted "naturally", or delete it manually yourself. There are some other things you could do too, but those are the main options. Bruce

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FW:
by Barden, Des [HAL02:8883:EXCH] 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

subscribe Des Barden Team Leader Unix/LAN IS Regional Services (Harlow) Esn: 742-5856 > -----Original Message----- > From: Barden, Des [HAL02:8883:EXCH] > Sent: 24 November 1998 10:03 > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: > > Subscribe > > > Des Barden > Team Leader Unix/LAN > IS Regional Services (Harlow) > Esn: 742-5856 >

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RE: F630 grinds to a halt daily after update to 5.1.2?
by Matt Stein 23 Nov '98

23 Nov '98

> Netapp's given me 5.1.2P1 in hopes of it fixing things. Luckily for us, > the box needed it's nightly reboot *after* getting that on there. I'll > let you all know if this fixed things. Nope, 5.1.2P1 also has this problem. We're downgrading back to 5.0.1D4. They've been no help yet on the core files, so I think that's our best bet. -- mat.

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RE: NetApp soon to be user
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 21 Nov '98

21 Nov '98

On 11/20/98 09:45:21 you wrote: > >Rick, > >We have run into a couple of significant issues with CIFS that may, or may >not, be relevant. First issue is: >Well, it turns out that there is some "feature" in NT that causes IIS to >hang if oplocks are on. To me, this is an issue with IIS. If you use IIS, you'll get this same problem when talking via CIFS to another NT box. The answer is to not use IIS (or NT entirely), or, as you point out, turn off oplocks. >The second issue is a hardcoded limit in the filer that does not allow for >more then slightly more then 65K of directories in one directory tree. Most >folks wouldn't run into this, but we create an NT folder for every user who >uses our site to build their own web pages. This limit is not documented >(there is a limit of approx. 300,000 file sin one directory and a maxfiles >limit that is dependent on number/capacity of disk drives that are >documented). This does bother me. I don't know when the limit appeared, as it doesn't seem to be a part of the WAFL design, and slipping it in through a "backdoor" without mentioning it is disturbing. As you mentioned, there is a limit on the number of files, or actually directory entries, in one directory, which was set as a matter of performance; however, there is a maxdirsize parameter you can set to increase it. Directories should naturally be treated the same way, so if you're correct that some other limit has been added (maybe it was always there and I just didn't know), it would be nice if someone from Netapp could address why this limit exists and if/when it will be lifted and/or made user-configurable. Mind you, if you tried to put 65K directories in your NT or UNIX server, you will run into a severe performance degredation. You really should look into setting them in deeper subdirectories. This appears to be another reason NOT to use IIS.... Bruce

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F630 grinds to a halt daily after update to 5.1.2?
by Matt Stein 21 Nov '98

21 Nov '98

I know this isn't a support channel, but Netapp's not been useful at all, so what the heck: I have an F630 that's run well enough for five months. On Sunday we upgraded our filer to 5.1.2 from 5.0.1d4 at the suggestion of our Netapp SE. Since then, it's come grinding to a halt each day. NFS access starts getting really slow, and eventually completely unresponsive. Network activity is not high. sysstat shows that cpu, disk, and net are all getting lower and lower as clients start dropping their mounts. Things do not improve until eventually we reboot it. The telnet interface is fine and responsive all the way through. Netapp's support has asked for crash dumps, etc., but nothing's helped, and we're heading into a weekend. They also recommended *not* downgrading back to 5.0.1d4. Apparently 5.1.2 has bug fixes that we require(news to me). Has *anyone* seen this? Suggestions? Thoughts? Hitz voodoo solutions welcome. :) -- mat.

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Re: F630 grinds to a halt daily after update to 5.1.2?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 21 Nov '98

21 Nov '98

On 11/20/98 20:38:35 you wrote: >> this happens. After eliminating that, my best advice would be to change >> the client mounts to use different NFS protocols... UDP instead of TCP, >> and/or v2 instead of v3. Doing so may prevent or may make it less >> likely that you'll 'tickle' the Netapp bug. Also, check out the different > >Well, we have mostly v2 clients, but the v3 tcp client and the v3 udp >clients have all seen exactly the same behaviour. No, you misunderstand. The v3 clients or the tcp clients could be *causing* the bug to occur in the netapp, which then consumes resources to kill all clients. So, changing the clients to a different mechanism may avoid the problem. Get it? Bruce

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Re: F630 grinds to a halt daily after update to 5.1.2?
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 21 Nov '98

21 Nov '98

On 11/20/98 17:57:42 you wrote: > > >I know this isn't a support channel, but Netapp's not been useful at all, >so what the heck: > >I have an F630 that's run well enough for five months. On Sunday we >upgraded our filer to 5.1.2 from 5.0.1d4 at the suggestion of our Netapp >SE. > >Since then, it's come grinding to a halt each day. NFS access starts >getting really slow, and eventually completely unresponsive. Network >activity is not high. sysstat shows that cpu, disk, and net are all >getting lower and lower as clients start dropping their mounts. Things do >not improve until eventually we reboot it. The telnet interface is fine >and responsive all the way through. While many things could cause this, this sounds to me like a classic resource contention issue, where the filer accumulates more and more operations that are waiting on a blocked process (like a raid stripe being written out), and eventually it can't do anything more. This sort of thing can also happen at a higher level in the networking code. There have certainly been bugs that have exhibited the symptoms you describe in the past. >Netapp's support has asked for crash dumps, etc., but nothing's helped, >and we're heading into a weekend. They also recommended *not* downgrading >back to 5.0.1d4. Apparently 5.1.2 has bug fixes that we require(news to >me). > >Has *anyone* seen this? Suggestions? Thoughts? I'm surprised the crash dumps haven't helped. My first recommendation would be to downgrade. The "apparently" doesn't cut it; either they can tell you specifically what was fixed and you can assess the risk of downgrading, or you should just do it anyway. But if doing so would be a big problem according to Netapp, then you need to look for other solutions. If that is the case, I assume you've already looked at the obvious culprits like making sure you're not doing a dump, restore, etc. when this happens. After eliminating that, my best advice would be to change the client mounts to use different NFS protocols... UDP instead of TCP, and/or v2 instead of v3. Doing so may prevent or may make it less likely that you'll 'tickle' the Netapp bug. Also, check out the different interfaces you have... perhaps switching from ATM to Gigabit, or from Gigabit to 100tx, may alleviate the problem. (If you can check mounts through each interface when the "slowdown" occurs, you may be able to confirm a particular interface as the culprit.) Bruce

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RE: NetApp soon to be user
by Sam Schorr 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Rick, We have run into a couple of significant issues with CIFS that may, or may not, be relevant. NT uses a thing called oplocks (opportunistic locking) as a "performance enhancement". The filer supports this method of locking. In our environment, we do not have individual user shares - we have a number of NT servers running Microsoft's IIS. Thus our Internet servers (IIS) receive both PUT (file write) and GET (file read) requests through the internet that come in as anonymous users. IIS has several NT user accounts that it uses to make the corresponding access calls. In our case, those calls are to create directories and files which we put on a 740. Well, it turns out that there is some "feature" in NT that causes IIS to hang if oplocks are on. Essentially, somewhere in the SMB traffic that is hitting a shared file from multiple "users", if the number of simultaneous requests is large, NT timeouts which hangs the user - in our case, an entire IIS server. Doing a CIFS TERMINATE on that server can free it, but this is a horrible practice. The workaround is to turnoff oplocks and control file access through application logic. The second issue is a hardcoded limit in the filer that does not allow for more then slightly more then 65K of directories in one directory tree. Most folks wouldn't run into this, but we create an NT folder for every user who uses our site to build their own web pages. This limit is not documented (there is a limit of approx. 300,000 file sin one directory and a maxfiles limit that is dependent on number/capacity of disk drives that are documented). The last issue is multi-homing on an NT domain environment. If you want more info on that, let me know - it doesn't sound like you would run into this. Sam Schorr Homestead Technologies ph: (650) 549-3152 fax: (650) 364-7329 sschorr(a)homestead.com Don't just build a home page...build a Homestead!! http://www.homestead.com -----Original Message----- From: Berkenbush, Richard E. [mailto:BERKENBUSH@pcmail.systems.gec.com] Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:05 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NetApp soon to be user Hello all, I am in the process of purchasing a 720 to be used for TDM storage for SDRC in a mixed UNIX and NT environment. We also would like to consider its use for PDM storage using Sherpa and Oracle. Our intentions are to pilot the 720 with SDRC and phase in the PDM data base for pilot purposes only. Should this be successful, we would then purchase a higher end model such as the 740 or 760. Also we have a need to consider an enterprise wide data storage solution which would involve UNIX and NT data up to 3500 G. Has anyone out there had any bad experience with the Network Appliance products that I should be aware of? End Thank you, Rick Berkenbush Marconi Aerospace Systems Inc.

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NetApp soon to be user
by Berkenbush, Richard E. 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

Hello all, I am in the process of purchasing a 720 to be used for TDM storage for SDRC in a mixed UNIX and NT environment. We also would like to consider its use for PDM storage using Sherpa and Oracle. Our intentions are to pilot the 720 with SDRC and phase in the PDM data base for pilot purposes only. Should this be successful, we would then purchase a higher end model such as the 740 or 760. Also we have a need to consider an enterprise wide data storage solution which would involve UNIX and NT data up to 3500 G. Has anyone out there had any bad experience with the Network Appliance products that I should be aware of? End Thank you, Rick Berkenbush Marconi Aerospace Systems Inc.

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subscribe toasters
by Ståle Aartun 20 Nov '98

20 Nov '98

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None
by Frans van Aken 19 Nov '98

19 Nov '98

subscribe toasters

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snapshot and df does not match?
by Madhu Chandra 17 Nov '98

17 Nov '98

Hi All, Eventhough my snap list shows less than 100%, Why my df command shows 130%? Is there any hidden files that I need to delete? How does this sanp list matches with df's capacity? Following is the snap list and df commands for my F520 version 5.1 snap list Volume vol0 working................. %/used %/total date name ---------- ---------- ------------ -------- 4% ( 4%) 3% ( 3%) Nov 17 00:00 nightly.0 4% ( 4%) 3% ( 3%) Nov 16 16:00 hourly.0 5% ( 4%) 3% ( 3%) Nov 16 08:00 hourly.1 5% ( 4%) 4% ( 3%) Nov 16 00:00 weekly.0 5% ( 4%) 4% ( 3%) Nov 15 00:00 nightly.1 9% ( 4%) 6% ( 3%) Nov 14 00:00 nightly.2 12% ( 5%) 9% ( 3%) Nov 13 00:00 nightly.3 28% (21%) 26% (17%) Nov 09 00:00 weekly.1 df Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on /vol/vol0/ 50603952 45514752 5089200 90% /vol/vol0/ /vol/vol0/.snapshot 12650988 16497100 0 130% /vol/vol0/.snapshot Thanks for the help Madhu

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subscribe fva@oce.nl
by Frans van Aken 16 Nov '98

16 Nov '98

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Re: DLT 4500's?
by Jim Ripley (49er Fan) 13 Nov '98

13 Nov '98

The DLT4500 is supported in multiple D patch releases. The latest D patch release for the 4.3.4 tree is 4.3.4D9 and can be obtained at: http://now.netapp.com/download/software/ontap/4.3.4D9/ Hope this helps. Jim -->>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:39:04 -0800 (PST) -->>From: Brian Rice <brice(a)gnac.com> -->>To: toasters(a)mathworks.com -->>Subject: DLT 4500's? -->> -->>Looks like DLT 4500's are not supported, or at least not by 4.3.4 on F630's. -->>sysconfig -t says "non-qualified tape drive," and one gets no tape devices. -->> -->>Anyone had any experience to the contrary? I plan to call 888-4-NETAPP -->>and make nice in the morning, but I wanted to find out if anyone has had -->>other experiences, say with later revs of the OS. -->> -->>I'd rather not run permanently with a non-supported library, even if -->>NAC has a back-door patch for it. I think I need to bite the bullet -->>and buy a real tape drive. But this 4500 (which we found in the tomb -->>of Ramses II, believe it or not) would be a nice stopgap if that were -->>possible. -->> -->>Thanks, y'all. -->> -->>Brian Rice -->>brice(a)gnac.com

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Re: DLT 4500's?
by Jason D. Kelleher 13 Nov '98

13 Nov '98

In message <199811130639.WAA15113(a)tweety.main.gnac.com>, Brian Rice writes: >Looks like DLT 4500's are not supported, or at least not by 4.3.4 on F630's >. >sysconfig -t says "non-qualified tape drive," and one gets no tape devices. > >Anyone had any experience to the contrary? I plan to call 888-4-NETAPP >and make nice in the morning, but I wanted to find out if anyone has had >other experiences, say with later revs of the OS. > >I'd rather not run permanently with a non-supported library, even if >NAC has a back-door patch for it. I think I need to bite the bullet >and buy a real tape drive. But this 4500 (which we found in the tomb >of Ramses II, believe it or not) would be a nice stopgap if that were >possible. The problem with the 4500's is that ONTAP looks at the SCSI ID string and barfs if it's not a value it expects. You have two options, get NetApp to give you a "D" release which supports 4500s or change the SCSI ID which your drive returns. I've tried both. Getting the "D" releases is annoying, they come out at a several week lag to the production release. I managed to get an app from our drive vendor, BoxHill, which allows me to change how the drive reports itself. Now my filer happily writes 40GB to an "Exabyte 8500". good luck, jason

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DLT 4500's?
by Brian Rice 13 Nov '98

13 Nov '98

Looks like DLT 4500's are not supported, or at least not by 4.3.4 on F630's. sysconfig -t says "non-qualified tape drive," and one gets no tape devices. Anyone had any experience to the contrary? I plan to call 888-4-NETAPP and make nice in the morning, but I wanted to find out if anyone has had other experiences, say with later revs of the OS. I'd rather not run permanently with a non-supported library, even if NAC has a back-door patch for it. I think I need to bite the bullet and buy a real tape drive. But this 4500 (which we found in the tomb of Ramses II, believe it or not) would be a nice stopgap if that were possible. Thanks, y'all. Brian Rice brice(a)gnac.com

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Re: copying a snapshot file back over a recently-edited file
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 13 Nov '98

13 Nov '98

Yes, it's perfectly normal, and I think it's even documented in the manual. cp and other programs make the assumption that if it's the same inode, the files are identical, and due to the way snapshots work, it's the same inode. Copying it from what looks like another filesystem to the client is the easiest way to get around it. If you don't want people accessing the snapshot directories that way, just mv or remove the old file first. Bruce

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copying a snapshot file back over a recently-edited file
by Rob Windsor 12 Nov '98

12 Nov '98

I was dinking with my .mime.types and decided to restore the original file back into place. I received some real odd behavior, and was curious if this was "normal", or if things were screwey. I'll just cut'n'paste what came out of the xterm, it will explain itself. (Solaris/sparc v2.6 and OnTapp v4.3.5 on a F520, if you must know..) : wst103:~; cp .snapshot/hourly.0/.mime.types . cp: .snapshot/hourly.0/.mime.types and ./.mime.types are identical : wst103:~; /usr/bin/cp .snapshot/hourly.0/.mime.types . cp: .snapshot/hourly.0/.mime.types and ./.mime.types are identical : wst103:~; ll -i .snapshot/hourly.0/.mime.types ./.mime.types 591121 -rw-r--r-- 1 windsor staff 328 Nov 12 17:05 ./.mime.types 591121 -rw-r--r-- 1 windsor staff 589 Aug 4 17:22 .snapshot/hourly.0/.mime.types : wst103:~; cp /nac/.snapshot/hourly.0/userdata/windsor/.mime.types . : wst103:~; /nac and ~ are two different mountpoints (two different filesystems as far as cp(1) knows), as you may have already figured out. I haven't had any users query me about this yet, fortunately. Am I to remove the file completely before copying back in from the snapshot? -- Rob ---------------------------------------- Rob Windsor E-Mail - mailto:windsor@adc.com Senior Unix Systems Administrator Voice - phone:972-680-6919 Computer Services Fax - phone:972-680-0370 Business Broadband Group ADC Telecommunications Richardson, TX 75082

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Max Number of drives
by Jason Middlebrooks 12 Nov '98

12 Nov '98

What is the max number of 4 Gig drives a F210 can have? What is the max number of 4 Gig drives a F330 can have? Jason Middlebrooks Systems Engineer Direct Connect Systems Phone: 770-933-9327x260 2264 Northwest Parkway, Suite I Pager: 888-502-1625 Marietta, GA 30067 Fax: 770-933-9272

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