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13531 discussions

Re: That Darn NAC
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 24 Apr '99

24 Apr '99

On 04/24/99 00:23:33 you wrote: > > >On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 sirbruce(a)ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> I'd just like to point out, once again, that Netapp >> isn't NAC anymore, having changed from "Corporation" >> to "Inc." years ago. > >Are there any significant differences between corps. and incorps.? I never really heard a reason. They did it just before going public so I would speculate there is some odd legal/investment reason why having "Incorporated" in their name was preferred. You'd have to ask someone on the Board or executive staff. Bruce

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That Darn NAC
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 24 Apr '99

24 Apr '99

I'd just like to point out, once again, that Netapp isn't NAC anymore, having changed from "Corporation" to "Inc." years ago. Of course, a lot of us were in the habit of calling the boxes "nacs" so it was hard to change to "nais" or "netapps." I guess you can still call them NACs if you have a suitable acronym. "Network Appliance Computer" is fine but a little generic; "Network Appliance Cache" works fine for one product but not the other. :) Me, I just call them "filers." Bruce

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Re: Console Break (was Y2K...)
by Ketil Kirkerud Elgethun 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

jrg(a)acm.org (James R Grinter) writes: > For Solaris 2, I've been told that there exists modified serial driver > that - when the OS is running - will prevent that happening. This is in fact the standard serial/console driver in Solaris 2.6 (and 7). You'll have to set a variable in /etc/default/kbd - basically you have the option to either -react to BREAK (or L1-A, if you have a keyboard attached) - this is the default -ignore the BREAK (or L1-A). We're running quite a few (50ish) Suns, all connected to a linux box running conserver (serial hardware being Stallion cards). We've had no problems with this so far - and we _do_ have breaks enabled, to be able to reset a machine that won't let us in for some reason. Another thing : I'm thinking of attending the Netapp202 course (it fits nicely in with my plans for Usenix Tech.'99) - I've been running Netapps for a few years now, but wouldn't mind some more "inside" information on the secret bits. Is anyone willing to recommend this course ? Finally, a small tidbit for those among you who get a thrill out of (large) numbers: We've got an F540 (current uptime: 404 days) - this box has sustained 9900 (!) NFSops/sec for 20 hours. Id' say that on average it has sustained approx 3000 NFSops/sec over the last 6 months... NetApp needs to do something about the "total nfs ops counter" - it's rolled 15 times since the last reboot - nfsstat -l gives some really interesting output : [output snipped] 195.225.3.37 www2.sol.no NFSOPS = 1385724634 (4294966978%) :-) -- ---Ketil Kirkerud Elgethun, SOL System

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Console Break (was Y2K...)
by scw＠seas.ucla.edu 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

> > I just wish there was a way to enable breaks from console. > > By "enable breaks" do you mean the "BREAK causes the OS to jump to the > PROM monitor" stuff that SunOS (including 5.x) does? > > We don't detect BREAK or respond to it, but there's probably no reason > we couldn't do that. ARGGG! NO! NO! NO! Disaster waiting to happen. A failed terminal, or one that is turned off or has its power line unplugged generates a BREAK -well strictly speaking it's not really a BREAK but most implimentations of UART see it as a break. This used to happen to our Admin folks every once in a while with their SUN. Remember the users with their torches and pitchforks. > I don't know if our serial port is set up so that unplugging a terminal > (or terminal server) and plugging it back in looks like a BREAK; that's > one of the suckages on at least some Suns. > ----- Stephen C. Woods; UCLA SEASnet; 2567 Boelter hall; LA CA 90095; (310)-825-8614 Finger for public key scw(a)cirrus.seas.ucla.edu,Internet mail:scw@SEAS.UCLA.EDU

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Re: Console Break (was Y2K...)
by tkaczma＠gryf.net 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 scw(a)seas.ucla.edu wrote: > Clearly you don't work at a university, where faculty members walk > into the machine room and grab any old piece of equipment that they want No, I work in an environment where dumb tubes are a greatly coveted pieces of equipment, since we don't have too many to go around. Still, pulling a serial cable doesn't cause the machine to halt in our environment. I don't care that you want this functionality disabled. If you do you'll never enable it in the variable. I have roughly 15 NACs in 6 different buildings, some of them 12 miles away. > In any case OUR machine room is protected against faculty intrusion, > and AIX doesn't have that problem anyway. But Sun's implementation of > BREAK detection is severly broken ( 0v != SPACE ) or is it MARK? Like I said, pulling the cable off doesn't do it, plugging the cable in doesn't do it. Turning the tube on while connected to a Sun does it. Hence, the tube is the broken piece not the Sun. Tom

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size of NFS ops counters (was RE: Console Break (was Y2K...))
by Hackworth, Brian 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

: From: Ketil Kirkerud Elgethun [mailto:ketilk@a.sol.no] : NetApp needs to do something about the "total nfs ops counter" - it's : rolled 15 times since the last reboot - nfsstat -l gives some really : interesting output : : : [output snipped] : 195.225.3.37 www2.sol.no NFSOPS = 1385724634 (4294966978%) For the next major release of ONTAP, we'll be increasing the size of many of the internal counters, including the NFSOPS counters, to 64 bits. This should help for a while. - Brian Hackworth

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RE: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards? (&courses)
by Page, Ruth 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Page,> I don't see training revenue as NetApp's Page,> major benefit from customer training; Hitz's response and mine crossed yesterday, but we were consistent on this point... >Also, it seems like NA could reduce the cost of the >class by holding classes in Santa Clara instead of >shipping NetApps and trainers around the country. Most of our classes are at our corporate office. We hold field classes when/where we get customer requests. It is more expensive for NetApp, but as long as we have a minimum # of students, we can strike a balance of our costs and the savings for the customers (and the benefits of offering training to customers who will not come to California). The most cost effective training route in the field is by taking advantage of the multiple student discount, (new as of about Dec.) the web registration discount and the multiple class discount. It's pretty cost effective. We also offer classes at customer sites (minimum # of students required), which many customers are choosing. Ruth... -----Original Message----- From: Jay Soffian [mailto:jay@cimedia.com] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:16 PM To: ruth.page(a)netapp.com Cc: mds(a)gbnet.net; beepy(a)netapp.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards? (&courses) "Page," == Page, Ruth <ruth.page(a)netapp.com> writes: Page,> I don't see training revenue as NetApp's major benefit from Page,> customer training; rather (I see the benefit as) the Page,> customers' increased proficiency with the product. Page,> Residual benefits include fewer calls to TS, the likelihood Page,> of more purchases and referrals (result of customer Page,> satisfaction) and more face time with the customer for Page,> feedback/input. We just had this argument with our NA salesperson. If NetApp really believes this, why do they charge so much for the training courses? Why not include a coupon with each NetApp sold that is good toward one training class? Don't want to give a class away? The value of the coupon could be based on the cost of the filer purchased. NA should at least offer the course at something close to cost. Afterall, it benefits NA as much as it benefits the customer, as you just said. Also, it seems like NA could reduce the cost of the class by holding classes in Santa Clara instead of shipping NetApps and trainers around the country. Half the people that attended the class here in Atlanta recently had to fly in anyway, so it doesn't appear you are saving the customer much money by holding regional classes. j. -- Jay Soffian <jay(a)cimedia.com> UNIX Systems Administrator 404.572.1941 Cox Interactive Media

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Re: Console Break (was Y2K...)
by jrg＠acm.org 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

On Fri 23 Apr, 1999, fubar(a)mathworks.com (Kendall Libby) wrote: >I wish Sun would implement that. I've got a bunch of sun's on a >terminal server and have never had a problem unless the cisco is >powered off. That's acceptable; all the sysadmins know it, and no >one else is allowed in the machine room (*cough*). Had a similar >situation when I worked for an ISP. (a bit off topic, but..) For Solaris 2, I've been told that there exists modified serial driver that - when the OS is running - will prevent that happening. Variously, I've been told that it's something Sun Consulting have available, if you ask, to it being something that a particular large Wall Street firm and big Sun (Solaris) user wrote. It switches the signal away from a break to a combination key set, I believe. Alternatively, it's possible to modify a serial cable to accomodate a long break but avoid the short one you get from the disconnection of a cable or death of a terminal server. A third option is to get a terminal server that doesn't do that - I've direct experience of the Lightwave ones (already mentioned here today) and they do prevent it happening if they are powered on or off. James.

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RE: administrivia
by Robert Palermo 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Hey Kendall, Maybe your body has been taken over by aliens and you only think you're running this list. Du'Oh !!! > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:18:13 -0400 (EDT) > From: fubar(a)mathworks.com (Kendall Libby) > To: "Kinney, Roger" <roger.kinney(a)netapp.com> > Cc: "'fubar(a)mathworks.com'" <fubar(a)mathworks.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: administrivia > X-Bike: 95 VFR750F > X-Animal: waterbuffalo > X-Retort: Bite me, fanboy > > >>>>> "roger.kinney" == Kinney, Roger <roger.kinney(a)netapp.com> writes: > > roger.kinney> I believe that's unsubscribe dl-toasters <your email > roger.kinney> address> > > Um, no. I run the toasters list, and it's most definitely "toasters". > > K.

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Re: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by Jim McCoy 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Jason Kelleher writes: >mwalters(a)netapp.com: >>ONTAP 5.3 has an optional (license required !) "snaprestore" feature [...] > > And if you don't have the license can you still call support and > have them walk you through the undocumented procedures to do this > from a boot floppy You really don't even need to boot floppy (search for the the "floppy-boot?" setting in the boot system) if you are in a hurry. The prev_cp works for 5.x as well but it is a bit of a hack to do this sort of a restore (OTOH I doubt that the "snaprestore" is anything more than a wrapper over prev_cp which masks out the checkpoints stored in the NVRAM log.) > they should've spent more money on books and less on leather jackets Come on, those were pretty sweet jackets! :) (and the logo was rather subdued for a corporate freebie.) Last I heard they decided to pocket the money they were spending on the jackets and the class docs are still very weak. They should also put the class docs onto the web somewhere because there are times when the docs aren't handy and I need to remember if it is 26/7 or 28/7 that fries my disks... jim mccoy Yahoo! Inc.

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Dump core after running CIFS setup
by Mike Ball 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Has anyone ever had a "Dump Core" while running CIFS Setup? We had deleted the C$ and recreated C$ to point to a qtree which we created on vol1. This is the only thing out of the ordinary which was done on the filer before rerunning CIFS Setup. I am currently running Data Ontap 5.12 on a F720 Thank you, Mike Ball

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administrivia
by fubar＠mathworks.com 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

With the flurry of unsubscribe requests going to the list lately, I thought I'd take this opportunity to remind everyone how to get off this list correctly. *** If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to <majordomo(a)mathworks.com> with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe toasters <your email address> *** There is a list archive (searchable, even) available on the web at http://teaparty.mathworks.com:1999/toasters/ K.

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None
by DESCHAMPS, Stephane 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

unsubscribe stephane.deschamps(a)rp-rorer.fr

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remove
by DESCHAMPS, Stephane 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

> remove stephane.deschamps(a)rp-rorer.fr

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RE: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards? (&courses)
by Page, Ruth 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

-----Original Message----- From: mds(a)gbnet.net [ mailto:mds@gbnet.net <mailto:mds@gbnet.net> ] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:20 PM To: beepy(a)netapp.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> Subject: Re: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards? (&courses) Courses shouldn't teach 'secrets' IMHO,..... I have to say I'm a little peeved when courses are products in and of themselves (ie where they teach things over and above the manuals) because it's just another way for vendors to screw customers for a few more bucks IMHO. ---------------------------------------- >Whether or not these commands should be taught and/or documented is an on-going debate at NetApp. The thinking was that the 'secret commands' can be destructive and rather than document them in the manual, train customers to use them, with the caveat to work with TS. The goal was to minimize the risk, but still make the commands available to customers. We've included these commands in the 202 course because of requests (demands) from some customers but we discuss this decision frequently. I'll pull a few people together here to evaluate this again. E-mail to me (or posts) with any additional opinions would be appreciated. I agree with the point of courses not being products in and of themselves, in that our classes refer to the documentation and our NOW website as the reference material. We've gotten mixed input...some customers do want the class and/or material to be a completely standalone product. I see the real value of the classes as the labs and the experience/expertise of the instructor. (and, as you mention, the dedicated time to really learn the product). The chance to talk to other customers is a side benefit. While I believe it is the case that our course material could be used as standalone reference material, it's not really our goal...It's the show vs. teach question (or give vs. teach...you know...the fish saying ;-) We try to teach. I don't see training revenue as NetApp's major benefit from customer training; rather (I see the benefit as) the customers' increased proficiency with the product. Residual benefits include fewer calls to TS, the likelihood of more purchases and referrals (result of customer satisfaction) and more face time with the customer for feedback/input. Ruth... Ruth Page Director, World Wide Educational Services Network Appliance 2770 San Tomas Expwy / Santa Clara, CA 95051 phone: 1-409-367-3722 Fax: 1-408-367-3195 Email: rpage(a)netapp.com Web: www.netapp.com

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Re: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by Jason D. Kelleher 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

In message <199904211921.PAA30871(a)trail.cimedia.com>, Ozzie Sabina writes: > >+-- "Jason D. Kelleher" <kelleher(a)susq.com> once said: >| slides they called a book for "prev_cp - boot from prior >| consistency point" -- they should've spent more money on books and >| less on leather jackets) in the Special Commands Section. > >It's bookbags now. The saved money didn't go to the books. > >| This worked with a 4.1.x boot floppy in class, not sure about the >| 5.x boot floppies. As I recall it was for recovering from a >| severely fubar'd filesystem. > >Yes, you can do this from the 5.x floppies. The deal with snap >restore was to make it 'easier' for people, although you still have to >reboot the box (and you don't really physically need a floppy to do a >'floppy boot'), so it seems to be a minor difference to me. Hoever, ^^^^^^^^^^^ Didn't know that. I'll file it under "emergency things I hope I never need to know". :) >you can revert a specific volume only to a previous CP - I can't >remember if you can do that from the floppy menu. > >Oz

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RE: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by tkaczma＠gryf.net 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Yoder, Alan wrote: > I don't understand. Are you telnetted into the console? On what > kind of machine? ^C works fine over telnet from a solaris xterm for > me. I only wish it were this simple. Tom

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Re: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by Luke Mewburn 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

"Jim McCoy" writes: > You really don't even need to boot floppy (search for the the "floppy-boot?" > setting in the boot system) if you are in a hurry. The prev_cp works for > 5.x as well but it is a bit of a hack to do this sort of a restore (OTOH I > doubt that the "snaprestore" is anything more than a wrapper over prev_cp > which masks out the checkpoints stored in the NVRAM log.) Do you know an easy way to unset floppy-boot? on a running machine, without halting back to `ok '? If there isn't a way at the moment, I recommend that NetApp implement something a la Solaris' ``eeprom'' command, which allows modifying OpenBoot environment variables, and is really handy when you don't want to take a machine down to change stuff, or you can't get to the console due to unforseen problems (such as when you terminal concentrator locks up that port :( ).

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Nitech
by Daniel A. Jacobs 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Does anyone have any experience with the Nitech XRP1000? $24K for 140GB, seems pretty sharp. Has checkpoints (like snapshots), journalling, etc. Any comments? Thanks, Daniel -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.0.2 -- QDPGP 2.60 Comment: Got Clue? - ISPF III - http://www.ispf.com iQB1AwUBNx/AXNUYHqdNqACJAQGOpQL/awaxgafviIwoM+og3d6Q7J40YBBD2lbq IbVni8MRB6O2sFoyTNhrxuoUjwOnAi+HH+prRjLyL1u4rXXBerlhCwFci9klW4x9 iHuerClO2GyUFDTCRxp2CIK4/d/tF0za =Kq0M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - PT World Wide Profile Registry - http://www.wizard.com/wwpr.html Daniel Jacobs | @wizard.com - Las Vegas Internet Access Provider sysadmin | (702) 317-2001 or http://www.wizard.com/

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Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by Garrett Burke 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Hi All, As part of my Y2K testing I intend rolling the date forward on my filer (F230, currently 5.2.1, NFS & CIFS) to just before midnight on the 31st and then watch it as it ticks over midnight. So far, so good. The issue I have (assuming the filer is Y2K compliant!) is rolling it back again. Has anyone rolled their filer forward and then back again to put it back into production? Were there any glitches? There will be files that will have modified dates in the future, but these can be a copy of some production data which can be deleted after the test. GB

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RE: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by scw＠seas.ucla.edu 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Another item that comes to mind is your /etc/syslog.conf (assuming that you have one) and other dynamicly read files. One would hope that the timers used to check this stuff actually use incrementals , not absolute time values - that is set a timer , count down to 0 when you reach 0 check file x and not check the clock every second and at 01:45:30Z01Jan2000 check the status of x. Otherwise when you set your time back, these dynamic files might not be read for some time B-}( ----- Stephen C. Woods; UCLA SEASnet; 2567 Boelter hall; LA CA 90095; (310)-825-8614 Finger for public key scw(a)cirrus.seas.ucla.edu,Internet mail:scw@SEAS.UCLA.EDU

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RE: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards?
by Garrett Burke 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

Hi Ozzie, If there was a problem with going back then I'd end up restoring from tape which would probably result in downtime during business hours. Checking with others at least gives me some confidence that I wouldn't end up having a conversation with management if I hadn't checked which would go something like: Mgt: Why did you do it? Me: Y2K test Mgt: Has anyone else done it? Me: Don't know, didn't check Mgt: What do you mean you didn't check? Me: (gulp) Mgt: Better start printing your CV out! Me: can't, it's on the filer which has crapped itself! 8-) You get the picture. Many people didn't expect the Y2K problem either. 8-) GB > ---------- > From: Ozzie Sabina[SMTP:ors@cimedia.com] > Sent: 21 April 1999 17:56 > To: Garrett Burke > Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: Re: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards? > > > I have done this and then reset it with no problems (I'm not sure why > you'd expect any). > > (This was with the 5.3 release) > > Oz >

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Re: Y2K: Any one rolled a filer forward & backwards? (&courses)
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 23 Apr '99

23 Apr '99

On 04/22/99 13:22:15 you wrote: >These are things we need to fix. > >(There will always be some secret commands that are used within >engineering as part of our design and test scaffolding. We just need >to take the position that when we learn a given command is useful >externally, we should give it a face-lift and make it non-secret.) Yes, Dave, but not to put too fine a point on it, this is the same thing that has been said by some employees and customers for years. I'm sure you're sincere, but I think people so far have found Netapp's progress in this area less than satisfying. There has been some, and the classes are a good step, but a lot more should be done. Saying "we're trying to get our arms around this problem in engineering" lacks a little credibility when you realize that you've been saying the same thing for 3-4 years. It might be more honest to say that "we decided to spend that time and money on more revenue-enhancing engineering projects" and that's a sound business strategy, but let's not pretend that Netapp has only now suddenly discovered this issue and is trying to come up with the best solution. Sorry for being a little critical; I rarely am on this list, but you hit one of my hot buttons. :) Bruce

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remove
by Nick Nikjoo 22 Apr '99

22 Apr '99

remove nickn(a)nortelnetworks.com

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remove
by Weeks Thomas W Contr 311 CS/SCBI 22 Apr '99

22 Apr '99

remove thomas.weeks(a)mirage.brooks.af.mil

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