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13515 discussions

test
by Michael Linett 06 Dec '99

06 Dec '99

-- Michael Linett - President Mike(a)zerowait.com * http://www.zerowait.com PH 302.266.9408 FX 302.738.4302 http://www.loadbalancing.net - The Source for information on Load Balancing Technology http://www.nas-san.com - Information on Network Attached Storage and Storage Area Networks

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RE: RE: HP OmniBack Backup Filer on NT DLT
by Benn, Paul 03 Dec '99

03 Dec '99

I personally have not used OmniBack but I did publish a white paper on the subject of NT based backup of filers. At the very least, it may give you some ideas. http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3052.html Regards, Paul Benn Network Appliance -----Original Message----- From: Dave Mills [mailto:davem@cypress-systems.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:11 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE:RE: HP OmniBack Backup Filer on NT DLT We are new to filers. We currently have several DLT drives on NT servers which are OmniBack tape agents. We are currently getting ready to install a F720. Has anyone used OnmiBack on NT to backup via the CIFS on a filer? I know we would have to snapshot manually. Any other drawbacks or problems? Dave Mills Cypress Systems

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RE:RE: HP OmniBack Backup Filer on NT DLT
by Dave Mills 03 Dec '99

03 Dec '99

We are new to filers. We currently have several DLT drives on NT servers which are OmniBack tape agents. We are currently getting ready to install a F720. Has anyone used OnmiBack on NT to backup via the CIFS on a filer? I know we would have to snapshot manually. Any other drawbacks or problems? Dave Mills Cypress Systems

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OOps
by Jay Orr 02 Dec '99

02 Dec '99

Ignore last post -- our mail queue is slow and I just got the messages previously posted. Thanks for addressing the concern, Netapps! ----------- Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO

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Netapp Web Page
by Jay Orr 02 Dec '99

02 Dec '99

Had anyone heard if Netapp is planning to make their support page LYNX / text browser compliant?? I see they revamped their page, and I remember the thread about how netapps support page requires javascript, so no text-based browsers work (so if you working off of a VT term, your SOL). Has this question been resolved at Netapps? Is the revamp still using javascript a way of saying they could care less about this issue? ----------- Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO

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FW: FTP uploads from the UK (fwd)
by Nguyen, Alan 02 Dec '99

02 Dec '99

To All, First, I must apologize for NetApp's poor FTP site performance. The responsibility for this in my group. The situation is our internet connection is highly-utilized and thus your access to our FTP site is affected by this. Actions have been taken to increase internet bandwidth in the next few weeks. However, despite this, it will be superseded by our new FTP implementation. We have designed a new FTP site to improve security, system management, increase internet bandwidth/presence (i.e. ISP hosted site), and system redundancy. Because our current infrastructure is very out-dated, we have taken the "big-bang" approach rather than making incremental improvements. In a little more detail, our new FTP site is at a web-hosted site with 100MB bandwidth capacity vs current T1, and is configured with two fail-over dual-processor Unix systems with cluster fail-over (F760) Filer pair for storage. In short, the new site is very robust and will scale to meet to our customers' needs. What has been done thus far? Contract has been signed with new web-hosting site. Networking infrastructure is in place. Programming is complete for account and directory management. The new systems are racked at the new web-hosted site. As I type this, we are plugging in the cables for the new systems. What's the schedule? In the next two days, we will perform internal/external FTP tests. On Monday (Dec 6th), we will start live tests with customers assuming everything goes well this week. After which, the new site will go live. I will announce to this list when we are live. If you have any questions, please direct them to me anguyen(a)netapp.com <mailto:anguyen@netapp.com> or reply to this list as I will be joining this list soon. Again, thank you for your patience. Alan Nguyen Network Appliance Mgr., IT Server Operations

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RE: User Quotas in CIFS Environment
by Plawner, Marom 02 Dec '99

02 Dec '99

I realize that the responses I received on this thread weren't posted to the group, so I'll give a quick overview of the e-mail's I received: Problem that users from the NT domain must be migrated into the /etc/passwd file (using the dos based on beta GUI based tool) to be able to give a users@tree quota. Responses: This is not unique to my system. It is in fact built this way. I've been told that this should be changed in an upcoming release (less than 12 months, hopefully). Quote, "The quota system within WAFL needs to be wired to the NTFS metadata that is maintained in the NTFS and MIXED file system styles. Currently it is only wired to the UNIX notion of ownership, which is why the UNIX<->NT user mappings are currently necessary to make user and group quotas work for Windows users." My Reaction: 12 months!!!! Problem: An NT based NIS server and make the NetApp a client. Anyone know of one? Responses: Good idea, nope, we don't. Problem: The DOS based migration tool crashes, can someone at NetApp fix it? Response: Nope. We don't even have the source, and we don't support it. My Reaction: This is a BAD answer. The NetApp filer provides a broken functionality (see first problem above), and the only interim solution isn't supported. Problem: Maybe the GUI version of the migration tool has hidden command line switches which can make it scriptable? Response: Nope. Why don't you just write your own script automatically update your /etc/passwd file? My Reaction: I bought the NetApp Filer since it's supposed to be a "black box" (ok, blue). The concept of the filer is that it is a simple, closed system that you just plug in a go with. If I wanted a system which I have to start building tools for, I'd download Linux for free and do it myself. (Or run Novell, or suffer with speed of NT.) Speed wasn't the issue, NetApp people... simplicity was. I don't need "just go and program it yourself" answers. I bought this for a CIFS environment, not NFS. I don't come from the "just build it in Perl" side of the tracks. Since you offer more functionality, you just understand your customer based and how the NT System Admins are different than the Unix System Admins. Problem: Maybe the wafl.nt_user.default option is connected? Response: No, read the man page. My Reaction: Right, good idea. Thanks to all of your responses. For those of you wanting to go into CIFS or using CIFS and wanting to go into quotas, I was given a suggestion to just limit the size of the /users folder. In theory it isn't a bad idea, but I'll tell you from the point of view of a company with about 4,000 people using the filer as a home directory, people will use it all up and fast! Not putting a quota won't work. - Marom

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RE: NOW update?
by Davis, Barry 02 Dec '99

02 Dec '99

We have a project scheduled for completion at the end of December to allow customers with text based browsers to download software from the Web. This is in direct response to issue discussed 6 weeks ago regarding customers who have filers in remote locations or colo cages where no graphics console is available. Details will come out mid-December about this new location and how to use it. -----Original Message----- From: Pete Ehlke [mailto:pde@listserv.music.sony.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:14 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: NOW update? Folks: Six weeks or so ago, there was extensive discussion here about the use of javascript on NOW, and the inability of people in colo cages to get OnTap updates when no craphics capable console is available. NetApp made a fair bit of noise about wanting to address the issue, but since that time, the silence has been deafening. What's happening? -P. -- Pete Ehlke Sys Admin type @ Sony Music entertainment "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." -- Ian Fleming

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RE: FC-AL: Onboard vs. PCI Adapter Card
by Norman, Paul 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jay Soffian [mailto:jay@cimedia.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:54 PM > To: paul.norman(a)netapp.com > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: FC-AL: Onboard vs. PCI Adapter Card > > > "Paul" == Norman, Paul <paul.norman(a)netapp.com> writes: > > Paul> Over the last couple days, there has been some discussion > Paul> about on-board FC-AL in our filers. This summer, NetApp > ... > Paul> For more information, or if you have concerns about your > Paul> system, contact Network Appliance customer support. There > Paul> will also be more technical information posted on the NOW > Paul> site before the end of the day tomorrow. > > This information has yet to show up on NOW. > Sorry, I should have posted a pointer. Its been up for a while but it isn't that easy to find. Its in the Tip & Tech section under Knowledge Base, Its #700. The URL is http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/contents/TIP/TIP_700.shtml but you'll have to login first before you can get to this URL. You can find it with search off the Knowledge Base page, at the bottom. Select the "Tip & Tech" type and then enter "700" for the ID. > j. > -- > Jay Soffian <jay(a)cimedia.com> UNIX > Systems Engineer > 404.572.1941 Cox > Interactive Media >

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Backup Help
by Alan R. White 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

With the recent slew of mails about backups this question is timely. Problem 1 - we're an ADSM shop. We have all the infrastructure set up to run ADSM but until now we've not had filers. Pretty soon, all things being equal, we're going to start a project which might end up as 5TB of filers over 10 heads, in 5 clusters. At the remote site we're thinking of 5 heads with 1TB each as a snapmirror destination. There's plentiful network bandwidth available between the sites. OK, snapshots will take the bulk of our restore work but there will be the usual 'keep monthly backup for 12 months, yearly for ever (= 7 years in my book)'. Then there's what to do if one breaks (double disk hit / reconstruct failure etc etc - not likely but I'm not betting the bank on it). Checking with the ADSM folks they think they will have a pretty wholesome NetApp integration by end *next* year. Timely as usual (not). So what to do? When and if ADSM native support becomes a reality we should use it if possible so its an interim thing we need. How about backups over CIFS (because I will need the security info - NFS doesn't back it up apparently)? I didn't think local tape drives was an option due to the size of each filer (500GB) and then the number of filers (10). I reckon I'd need 4 drives on each filer and then bodies running round changing them. BTW the business requirement will be to get them a service back soonest in case of outage - snapmirror looks like a last resort because it seems a tad awkward to fail back when the primary is repaired. I've read the NetApp white papers but there doesn't seem to be an ideal solution. All help gratefully received. Regards Alan

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FC-AL: Onboard vs. PCI Adapter Card
by Norman, Paul 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

Over the last couple days, there has been some discussion about on-board FC-AL in our filers. This summer, NetApp started shipping filers with an FC-AL adapter card rather than the on-board FC-AL to improve reliability and performance. We did this because we found errors which, though recoverable, potentially effect performance and loop stability. The problem effected a very small fraction, just a few percent, of the installed base. As for the installed base, we've been monitoring Autosupport logs each week to identify Filers that are having these types of errors and arranging for installation of an FC-AL adapter card in cases that warrant it. Our customer support organization is fully aware of this issue and if a customer calls with an FC-AL problem we review their logs for the soft-errors, and arrange for installation of an adapter card where appropriate. Since it effects a very small number of installed systems, it doesn't make sense to upgrade the entire installed base. Leave stable systems lie or if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Most filers will never see this problem and the recoverable errors indicative of the problem are easily identified --- so we are approaching this problem on a case-by-case basis. For more information, or if you have concerns about your system, contact Network Appliance customer support. There will also be more technical information posted on the NOW site before the end of the day tomorrow. Paul Norman, Product Manager Direct: (408) 822-6288 Network Appliance E-Mail: pnorman(a)netapp.com 495 East Java Drive Corp: (408) 822-6000 Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Web: WWW.NetApp.Com

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NOW update?
by Pete Ehlke 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

Folks: Six weeks or so ago, there was extensive discussion here about the use of javascript on NOW, and the inability of people in colo cages to get OnTap updates when no craphics capable console is available. NetApp made a fair bit of noise about wanting to address the issue, but since that time, the silence has been deafening. What's happening? -P. -- Pete Ehlke Sys Admin type @ Sony Music entertainment "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." -- Ian Fleming

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RE: Backup solutions
by Jim Cozens 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

We've been using Workstation Solutions Quick Restore to backup an F740(DOT5.2.3) via NDMP to an Exabyte 220 Mammoth library for a couple of months now. I've found it to be an excellent combination. One of the nice things about WS is that if you do find a bug they'll fix it quick. I haven't had any problems with the filer crashing while backing up. Jim Cozens CAD Systems Manager Imagination Technologies Ltd Home Park Estate Kings Langley Herts UK -----Original Message----- From: mgx(a)spruce.lsd.ornl.gov [mailto:mgx@spruce.lsd.ornl.gov] Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 10:30 PM To: lpaton(a)cfa.harvard.edu Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Backup solutions hi lisa ... are you a happy budtool user ;-) i'd really like to here about the demo. a reliable, affordable NDMP backup solution would be great! -- michael On Tue, Nov 30, Lisa Paton wrote: > > Actually Workstation Solutions has an NDMP client too. > They seem to be a bit cheaper than Veritas, but less > scalable for very large installations. For me, that's > fine. Especially considering it's about 1/3 the price. > > I'm demo'ing the Workstation Solutions product next > week and will post the results if folks are interested. > We're also a current Budtool customer. > > Lisa

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RE: Backup solutions
by Jim Cozens 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

According to the release notes QR does support 3-way NDMP backup and recovery. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:18 PM To: Jim Cozens Cc: 'mgx(a)spruce.lsd.ornl.gov'; lpaton(a)cfa.harvard.edu; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Backup solutions On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Jim Cozens wrote: > > We've been using Workstation Solutions Quick Restore to backup an > F740(DOT5.2.3) via NDMP to an Exabyte 220 Mammoth library for a > couple of months now. Does QR support 3-way NDMP dumps where the tape library is located on a Solaris host (i.e., does QR come with an ndmpd for Solaris)? Veritas also does 3-way, but only to a tape drive attached to another filer. I need something that can efficiently handle over a dozen filers dumping to a couple of Solaris boxes sharing a single stacker (like an X200 Mammoth2 library or something). -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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RE: FTP uploads from the UK
by Sam Schorr 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

Don't feel alone...the US ftp site does not handle large core dumps very well either. I am constantly getting "connection closed by remote" while trying to send a core of approx. 730 meg (F760 with gig of memory). I've been "hearing" about an upgrade for months. Maybe their ftp process has "feature creep" so they can't do what has been going on for years by others quite successfully. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Atkin [mailto:dla1@york.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 1:00 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: FTP uploads from the UK I'm having awful trouble uploading core dumps these days from the UK. Very often it goes slowly and then the ftp times out with a "broken pipe". Access to everwhere else (including the Netapp web site) is quite fast so I don't think our UK academic network is to blame. At the moment the mean time between crashes on one of our 740s is less than the mean time to get an upload to work!! Is there any chance that Netapp could look at this or alternatively perhaps provide a European ftp site? Or maybe a web-based upload facility might be provided as an alternative to ftp (dunno if that would be more reliable or not..). Dave Atkin ------------------------------------------------------ Dave Atkin, Head of Technical Services Computing Service, University of York, YORK YO10 5DD Phone: +44-1904-433804 (ddi) Fax: +44-1904-433740 Email: D.Atkin(a)york.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------

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SnapMirror
by Gilles TOURPE 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

Hello, Get a question regarding SnapMirror ... Did someone is using it to replicate 2 filers ( na1, na2 ) to 1 guy on a remote site ( nahots ). The idea is to backup all datas ( no REAL TIME ) using the snapMirror software. Do you know if it integrates reporting functions ? Volumes transfered over Time it took, Errors, What are the way to get those reports ( MAIL, update HTML pages on the FilerView ... ). Well, basically, what I like to get is a nice successful story :-) Thanx Gilles ------------------------------------------------------------ Gilles TOURPE - System and Network Administrator APS BNP ARBITRAGE - Salle des marches ACTIONS - PARIS - France Phone : (33)-1-40-14-24-03 e-mail : gilles(a)bnpcn.com

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RE: FTP uploads from the UK
by Garrett Burke 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

Hi Dave, I was told by Netapp about 2 months ago that they were upgrading their pipe and server. The SE I was dealing with found it a complete pain as well. Hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later. GB > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Atkin [SMTP:dla1@york.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:00 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: FTP uploads from the UK > > I'm having awful trouble uploading core dumps these days from the UK. > Very often it goes slowly and then the ftp times out with a "broken > pipe". Access to everwhere else (including the Netapp web site) is quite > fast so I don't think our UK academic network is to blame. > ------------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are solely for the use of the individual or organisation to whom they are addressed. If you have received this mail in error please notify the system administrator at +353 1 6399700 or by email to hostmaster(a)msc.ie This email message has been swept for computer viruses. Managed Solutions Corporation, Enterprise Customer Relationship Management, Workflow and Contract Administration. Tel: 353 1 639 9700 Fax: 353 1 639 9701 Don't forget to visit our website at http://www.msc.ie ********************************************************************

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FTP uploads from the UK
by Dave Atkin 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

I'm having awful trouble uploading core dumps these days from the UK. Very often it goes slowly and then the ftp times out with a "broken pipe". Access to everwhere else (including the Netapp web site) is quite fast so I don't think our UK academic network is to blame. At the moment the mean time between crashes on one of our 740s is less than the mean time to get an upload to work!! Is there any chance that Netapp could look at this or alternatively perhaps provide a European ftp site? Or maybe a web-based upload facility might be provided as an alternative to ftp (dunno if that would be more reliable or not..). Dave Atkin ------------------------------------------------------ Dave Atkin, Head of Technical Services Computing Service, University of York, YORK YO10 5DD Phone: +44-1904-433804 (ddi) Fax: +44-1904-433740 Email: D.Atkin(a)york.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------

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Backup solutions
by Paul Taylor 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

Hi. We have two netapps, an f630 and an f760. We are currently using Budtool to back up everything, but we are less than pleased with performance, and the fact that the product is getting EOL'd by Leggato. What is everyone's opinion on what they use for backups? We are considering Workstation Solutions, and Legatto, among others. Thanks, Paul Taylor Sr. Systems Engineer Connectria 215-841-5540

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Y2k test on Filer F720 with OnTap 5.2.2
by Amy Cheng 01 Dec '99

01 Dec '99

I plan to change date to December 31th 1999 on our filer F720 with ONTAP 5.2.2 and see whether it is smoothly rollover to Year 2000 or not. Is there anybody have test it? I would like get some experience from you. Thank you in advance!!! Best Regards Amy

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Sage AU Paper
by Graydon Dodson 30 Nov '99

30 Nov '99

I have heard that Rex Walkers (of NetApp) presented a paper at a "SAGE AU" meeting in Australia discussing where NetApp is going with metadata (NT Registry, options, etc.) issues. Anyone know where the paper can be found? I have been unable to locate it. Thanks. Graydon Dodson grdodson(a)lexmark.com Lexmark International Inc.

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Re: Backup solutions
by Mark D Fowle 30 Nov '99

30 Nov '99

With the NFS mount we are seeing 8-14 MB/s transfer rate. I could never get NDMP to work the way I wanted it too -- This is how we ended up with the solution we did. The dump data we get from the netapps (Done nightly) is used only if we have a disaster -- else all other data is either reovered from the tape backups (or from the snapshot data) We keep about 3 weeks worth of snapshots (8 daily, nightly, weekly) -- then rotate it again- so far this has worked pretty nicely now for about a year an a half --- Mark mgx(a)spruce.lsd.ornl.gov on 11/30/99 05:09:00 PM To: Fowle_Mark_D@cat.com@INTERNET cc: toasters@mathworks.com@INTERNET (bcc: Mark D. Fowle/0V/Caterpillar) Subject: Re: Backup solutions Retain Until: 12/30/99 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports mark ... what sort of backup rate do you get over nfs? to my single DLT7000 Q2.15 i regularly get 4-4.5MB/s (if its not crashed :-P ) backing up two F520's via NDMP. -- michael On Tue, Nov 30, Mark D Fowle wrote: > We use an nfs mount to each root of our F720 and F740 from our backup server > and just backup from that using our backup software (Alexandria) - We use a > Breece-Hill Q2.15 (with 2 DLT 7000's) to backup > the netapps, it works ok for us. > > Mark Fowle > Unix/Oracle/Metaphase Administration > Cateripllar BCP > Cary, NC

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Re: Backup solutions
by Graham C. Knight 30 Nov '99

30 Nov '99

This is probably a good time to mention the archives. This topic goes around quite often and lots of good information can be found in the archives: http://teaparty.mathworks.com:1999/toasters/ Graham[using veritas with very good results]

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Re: Backup solutions
by mgx＠spruce.lsd.ornl.gov 30 Nov '99

30 Nov '99

mark ... what sort of backup rate do you get over nfs? to my single DLT7000 Q2.15 i regularly get 4-4.5MB/s (if its not crashed :-P ) backing up two F520's via NDMP. -- michael On Tue, Nov 30, Mark D Fowle wrote: > We use an nfs mount to each root of our F720 and F740 from our backup server > and just backup from that using our backup software (Alexandria) - We use a > Breece-Hill Q2.15 (with 2 DLT 7000's) to backup > the netapps, it works ok for us. > > Mark Fowle > Unix/Oracle/Metaphase Administration > Cateripllar BCP > Cary, NC

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RE: Backup solutions
by Dani Tal 30 Nov '99

30 Nov '99

We use legato networker. We backup up the snapshots. There is also new tool called "Legato NetWorker ClientPak for Network Appliance" Check with legato or write to me to get the legato presentation. Dani Tal Manager Information Systems Siemens Data Communication ltd. Tel. +972-4-9953200 X 0403 FAX. +972-4-9888097 Mobile +972-53797814 -----Original Message----- From: mgx(a)spruce.lsd.ornl.gov [SMTP:mgx@spruce.lsd.ornl.gov] Sent: Tue, 30 November, 1999 21:01 To: Paul Taylor Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com; dhug(a)connectria.com Subject: Re: Backup solutions good question. i'm in the same boat (two F520's, crashing all the time due too ontap/budtool bad interactions). if you use ndmp for backups, my understanding is that veritas netbackup is the only option. -- michael On Tue, Nov 30, Paul Taylor wrote: > > Hi. We have two netapps, an f630 and an f760. We are currently using > Budtool to back up everything, but we are less than pleased with > performance, and the fact that the product is getting EOL'd by Leggato. > What is everyone's opinion on what they use for backups? We are > considering Workstation Solutions, and Legatto, among others. Thanks, >

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