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13531 discussions

Re: Disk-to-disk backups? (was Re: Need new backup solution)
by Bruce Sterling Woodcock 14 Apr '00

14 Apr '00

Not only that, but if a hacker breaks in and all your backups are online, they can just as easily destroy them too. Or they can become corrupted due to a failure. Tapes are much more stable (unless you pass a magnet over them) and you can store them, as you said, offsite. Snapshots are great for near-term recovery, and mirrors are even good for single-point disasters, but you always want tapes available in the event of a catastrophe. Bruce

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Re: Disk-to-disk backups? (was Re: Need new backup solution)
by Fred Ab 13 Apr '00

13 Apr '00

If your place burns down you are not just down but out of business. Tapes are tangible and can be stored offsite. ===}From: Bennett Todd <bet(a)rahul.net> ===}To: toasters(a)mathworks.com ===}Subject: Disk-to-disk backups? (was Re: Need new backup solution) ===}Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:13:15 -0700 ===}Mime-Version: 1.0 ===} ===}I'm curious about something here. ===} ===}First, some background. I recently set up a backup system I really, ===}really like. It's on a Linux fileserver, no netapps in this ===}picture. It's backing up c. 60GB of disk, a single root drive and a ===}50GB RAID-5 with a hot spare, to another RAID-5 set, about 130GB, ===}with no hot spare. I have a cronjob set to email me if a drive drops ===}out of the set. I backup with a script that replicates all the ===}data to be saved onto the backup raid set, using rsync, with the ===}--backup-dir option to save anything that's been changed or deleted; ===}then it takes all those changed-or-deleted files and bzip2s them ===}into timestamped archives. When the backup partition gets over ===}90% full it commences deleting those bzip2-ed archives, starting ===}with the oldest, until it's back down under 80% full. This gives me ===}months of coverage and I never have to change a tape, and the cost ===}of the drives is less than the cost of a suitable capacity tape ===}drive to back up 60GB of data. ===} ===}So anyway, enough with background, the question is, how come I don't ===}hear anyone advocating using Netapp's snapshots as a backup ===}strategy? Netapps don't lose data; it's not like WAFL or Netapp's ===}RAID or any other bits are so bug-ridden that they don't do their ===}job. ===} ===}And you can buy a _Load_ of drives for what a heavy-duty ===}industrial-strength DLT jukebox costs. Especially when you factor ===}in the setup time, and the re-setup time every time it breaks. The ===}Exabyte 8200 was the only tape drive I ever set up that didn't die ===}before I switched jobs; seems like MTBF for a drive writing a tape ===}a day is well under a year, at least in my experience in the last 6 ===}years or so. Bleech. ===} ===}-Bennett

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Sybase & Netapps
by Derek Kelly 13 Apr '00

13 Apr '00

Not too long ago I remember seeing someone out there who was planning to store Sybase data on Netapps. I wonder if that person (or others) could share the outcome of this project with the list. We are beginning to jump into this arena and are looking for feasibility and potential pitfall info before we begin. The setup will be data from Compaq Alpha ES40's and/or DS20's with DEC Unix 4.0 running Sybase 11.9.2 through a Cisco Catalyst 6509 to a Netapp F760 with gigabit nic's installed at each end of the pipe. I have seen documentation related to using Oracle in such a fashion, but not much on Sybase. We will be doing the same setup with Oracle so any info in that area will be much appreciated as well. Cheers, Derek Kelly www.genomecorp.com

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Quotas: Hard, Soft, and Time limits?
by Timothy Demarest 13 Apr '00

13 Apr '00

Does DOT support soft and hard quotas? How about time limits? From everything I've searched, it looks like it only supports hard limits. Regards, Tim -- Timothy Demarest ArrayComm, Inc. demarest(a)arraycomm.com 2480 N. 1st Street, Suite 200 http://www.arraycomm.com San Jose, CA 95131

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F740 Quad card performance
by Laurent Aymeric 13 Apr '00

13 Apr '00

I've a F740 running 5.3.4R3 with a Matrox Quad card connected on a CISCO 5509 (trunking mode) I've create a vif in multi mode. I've selected on my network 4 clients (HP running 10.20) using each a separated port on the quad card thanks to their MAC address (best case). Everybody is 100 Meg Full Duplex configured (no autoneg). The test I run is copying a 100 Mb file from each client to the filer, and the perf I've got are: Hostname: eauze Bytes: 104857600 Elapsed time: 43.281 (043281 msec), KBytes/s = 2365.93 Hostname: mimizan Bytes: 104857600 Elapsed time: 44.328 (044328 msec), KBytes/s = 2310.05 Hostname: orlu Bytes: 104857600 Elapsed time: 40.493 (040493 msec), KBytes/s = 2528.83 Hostname: tarascon Bytes: 104857600 Elapsed time: 41.819 (041819 msec), KBytes/s = 2448.65 The NFS calls/s varies from 200 to 1800 only during the copies. It seems that all the ports "share" a 10 Mb bandwith (peak I reach with a single client test). Can I expect more from such a configuration? PS: We got many "Bus overruns" errors on each interfaces.

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RE: Need new backup solution
by Mikkel Kjær Andersen 13 Apr '00

13 Apr '00

Hi John We're looking for a way to implement backup of our NetApp (F740) Files in our current NetWorker backup solution (Legato). Are you using ClientPak for NetApp? Or are you just backing up the files via an NFS share? And are you utilizing the snapshot function? And if yes - how? Regards, Mikkel Kjær Andersen System Administrator Tele Danmark Internet -----Original Message----- From: John Stoffel [mailto:john@casc.com] Sent: 13. april 2000 00:20 To: Brian Hostetter Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Need new backup solution We're currently using Legato Networker (Solstice Backup actually) 5.1 to backup NetApps that have been NFS mounted to the backup servers, which have ATL jukeboxes with dual DLT7000 in them. It works well on the server that's an Ultra 2 with dual 300Mhz CPUs. The other one is slow because it's just a Sparc 20 with Dual CPUs. Haven't had the chance to replace it yet.

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RE: Need new backup solution
by Melvin, Grant 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

Hi Brian, You may also want to take a quick look at a white paper on the external NetApp web page. "Data Protection Strategies for Network Appliance Filers" at: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3066.html Cheers, Grant -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:49 PM To: 'Brian Hostetter'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Need new backup solution Brian: You might want to consider quota-trees within your large volumes, then you can do backups of different quota-trees within a single volume separately..that is if your application leaves you stuck to a single-large-volume approach. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hostetter [mailto:BrianH@dice.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:24 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Need new backup solution Hi, We have been facing some explosive growth during the past 6 months and have grown past our current backup solution. We are currently backing up via a linux box that has our 740 nfs mounted. Backups are taking sometimes 24-30 hours for incrementals and all weekend for fulls. What I am looking for is info on how others are backing up 200G volumes on 740's or 760's. I just purchased a pair of 760's and am going to need a nice stable reliable backup system for them. Ideas? --Brian

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Implementing Sybase for Linux [ASE 11.9.2] on a NetApp Filer
by Shahryar G. Hashemi 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

Greetings, I followed the instructions documented on the NetApp web page [http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3040.html] on implementing a Sybase ASE server using a NetApp Filer. The system I used was a RedHat 6.1 Linux server [2.2.14 kernel] with 1GB of memory. During the initial installation I received the following error: Building Adaptive Server 'SNOCTEST': Building master device... Task failed Master device: /sybase/syb_1 Buildmaster: Could not lock device "/sybase/syb_1". Server 'SNOCTEST' was not created. I contacted Sybase on this and they stated that it was a NetApp problem. How is it that the file can't be locked when being created? Any ideas? Shahryar -- Shahryar Ghazneini Hashemi | E-Mail: shahryar(a)n2h2.com DBA - Operations Group | Telephone: +1 206 834-1739 N2H2 Inc. | FAX: +1 206 336-2971 900 4th Avenue Suite #3400 | Pager: +1 206 609-6154 Seattle, WA 98164 U.S.A. | E-Mail Pager: shahryar911(a)n2h2.cm Cell Phone: +1 206 930-2030 | Alt Pager: page_shahryar(a)chiefmojo.com ******************************************************************************

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Re: Need new backup solution
by Mark D Fowle 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

we use a Breece-Hill Q47 tape library unit and are currently testing Workstation Solutions QR 2.6 -- it looks good. Supports several Unix platforms including Linux, NT. It will also allwo you to back up either from the netapps or to a tape unit/library attached to the netapps using NDMP ... Mark Fowle Caterpillar/BCP Cary, NC BrianH(a)dice.com on 04/12/2000 04:33:00 PM To: toasters@mathworks.com@INTERNET cc: (bcc: Mark D. Fowle/0V/Caterpillar) Subject: Need new backup solution Retain Until: 05/12/2000 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports Hi, We have been facing some explosive growth during the past 6 months and have grown past our current backup solution. We are currently backing up via a linux box that has our 740 nfs mounted. Backups are taking sometimes 24-30 hours for incrementals and all weekend for fulls. What I am looking for is info on how others are backing up 200G volumes on 740's or 760's. I just purchased a pair of 760's and am going to need a nice stable reliable backup system for them. Ideas? --Brian

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RE: Need new backup solution
by Mohler, Jeff 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

Brian: You might want to consider quota-trees within your large volumes, then you can do backups of different quota-trees within a single volume separately..that is if your application leaves you stuck to a single-large-volume approach. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hostetter [mailto:BrianH@dice.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:24 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Need new backup solution Hi, We have been facing some explosive growth during the past 6 months and have grown past our current backup solution. We are currently backing up via a linux box that has our 740 nfs mounted. Backups are taking sometimes 24-30 hours for incrementals and all weekend for fulls. What I am looking for is info on how others are backing up 200G volumes on 740's or 760's. I just purchased a pair of 760's and am going to need a nice stable reliable backup system for them. Ideas? --Brian

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One way works, one way doesn't
by TTSG 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

Hi, Short time reader, first time poster. A customer of ours recently ordered 2 F720's and snapmirror and had it delivered to us to put up in our co-location. His current setup is 8 BSDI 4.0.1 machines, all on various subnets, into a Cisco 2924 and then some other stuff before it hits our router. So, I put each of the filers on their own subnet too. When I do the mount from the MAIN IP on the box, to the MAIN IP on the filer, life is fair (Tweaking NFS is a priority). The issue I have is since they are on 2 different subnets, the data goes out over the 2924, past the "stuff", to the router, back down the same pipe, past the "stuff" again, to the filer. LOTS of unnecessary traffic. SO, to prevent all the 8 machines currently from wasting bandwdith, they all have a 172.16 private network IP with a 255.255.0.0 subnet (Machine 1 is 172.16.100.1, Machine 2 is 172.16.101.1, etc). I put an alias on the e0 of 172.16.120.1 . However, when I mount it, it just doesn't work. Any "oh yea, you can't do that idiot" or other comments, or ways to figure out whats happening? Thanks, Tuc/TTSG

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HSM and Netapps
by Graham C. Knight 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

Has anyone sucessfully used a fairly large HSM solution with Netapp based storage? Any suggestions for the best product to use? We have ~20 filers in a mixed Unix/NT environment. Veritas tells us that their product won't work with netapps. That was a bit surprising. Anyone know otherwise? Thx, Graham

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HTTP directory listings
by Ethan Torretta 12 Apr '00

12 Apr '00

I would like to permit web directory listings on a filer, but I cannot find the equivalent of "Options Indexes." It just looks as if it isn't supported, but it also seems like exactly the sort of thing that might exist but be hidden. Does anyone know if there's an unlisted option to control this (or if I just missed something obvious)? ejt

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Backup Devices Technologies
by Sateesh Mucharla 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

I just became part ofthe toasters mailing list. It is very exciting to be here. I am currently using DLT4000 and DLT7000 drives for backing my unix network and considering buying a workgroup backup solution which includes buying a tape library along with the software. I am considering DLT7000 based solution because of its capacity and popularity in the inductry. I would like to know whether there is any better technology/drive to use as part of the backup solution. Can somebody point me to a location where i can find comparison chart of all the backup media and technologies. Thanks in advance. Sateesh

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Trunking?
by John Stacey 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

I have an old Alteon Aceswitch 110, and cannot find any docs for it. Will it trunk with a filer over multiple interfaces? Thanks

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Alteon 180S Switch for Etherchannel Trunking
by Kirschner, Lewis 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

Hello , . Appreciate if anyone can tell me if you have tried etherchannel trunking from filer to a Alteon 180S Switch . Thanks Lew Kirschner

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NOW web site improvements
by G D Geen 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

I just wanted to say that I like the recent improvements to the NOW web site. I much prefer the Serial Number search over browsing through a list. The list is inconsistent so I must view all filers for my company in order to find my filer. With the search feature up front, it is much easier to input a SN and "Go!". I wish to make one suggestion the the "Submit a Case". Would it be possible to add a copy list when submitting a case? I have several people assisting me in maintaining 21 of these monsters and sometimes more than one person will report the problem due to the time it takes to generate the case number and forward it out to the group. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- G D Geen mailto:geen@ti.com Texas Instruments Phone : (972)480.7896 System Administrator FAX : (972)480.7676 --------------------------------------------------------------- Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. -J. Lennon

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Impact of NFS mount mgmt on NetApps
by johnj.sasso＠ps.ge.com 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

Our site has about 800 UNIX systems, each NFS-mounting ~10 directories from our NetApp (an F760 running ONTAP 5.3.4) via the automounter. Does managing all these mounts critically impact the filer? The reason I ask is that if I have an automounter map with the following indirect mount entries: framemaker -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol/framemaker netscape -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol/netscape proe -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol/proe metaflo -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol/metaflo (etc...) Then would changing these to framemaker -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol:framemaker netscape -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol:netscape proe -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol:proe metaflo -rw,nosuid,intr,hard nassrv:/app_vol:metaflo (etc...) (which is supposed to reduce the number of mounts from the NetApp) provide significant improvement in performance on the NetApp? Would this significantly lower the load on the NetApp? Our UNIX systems are such that they do not reboot often, although I am unable to quantify how many mount requests to the filer occur in, say, an hour. --john

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RE: Lucent Switch for Etherchannel Trunking
by Ken Chua 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

Hello , I have a F740 filer , NFS . Appreciate if anyone can tell me if you have tried etherchannel trunking from filer to a Lucent switch . Thanks Best Regards , Ken .

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RE: NetApp backup recommendations
by Cliff Dobbs 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

I've only just got on to toasters, so sorry if this is a bit late. I was present at a demo of NetBackup last week at which we got the guy doing the demo to restore an NDMP backup to a new directory. I don't remember where the option was, but he just specified a new path to restore to. We've also been doing this with BudTool for ages. Cliff On 10/04/2000 18:53:56 Kelly Wyatt wrote: >On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Marion Hakanson wrote: >> >> I've been told that NetBackup can only restore NDMP dumps in place, >> too -- not to an alternate directory, for example (I haven't >> verified that with the vendor). > > QuickRestore 2.6 can restore an NDMP backup to an alternate *root* >path, if I understand the documentation correctly. If you backup >/depot/src as a single set, and you want to restore just >/depot/src/utilities/billing, you can put that into >/otherdir/utilities/billing, but not /otherdir/billing (i.e., the >directory pathname beneath the root of the backup must be preserved). >A quick call to Workstation Solutions should clear that up, or I can >dig out the manual when I'm back at the office on Monday. >-- >Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) >"Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" Cliff Dobbs Systems Administrator ARM Ltd Tel: +44 1223 400430 Fax: +44 1223 400410 e-mail: Cliff.Dobbs(a)arm.com

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Linux & NetApp
by Fabio Pietrosanti 11 Apr '00

11 Apr '00

Hi, i've a Server farms of VaLinux based on kernel 2.2.7-1.23 that use a F740 NetApp . Now, NetApp's engineer tell us that linux it's not the better choice for using NetApp . We mount share with this parameter : nfs rsize=8192,wsize=8192,timeo=14,intr,soft sometimes( every 2 or 3 week), on some server(different every time) the NetApp does not respond to server, and i see in the log : kernel: nfs: server netapp-2-1 not responding, timed out The load average remain very high until i don't reboot the machine. does someone had the same problem? p.s.: the logs on the NetApp are normal .

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Re: Huge one-time data transfer from UNIX to NetApp
by dnb＠ccs.neu.edu 10 Apr '00

10 Apr '00

Howdy- Rsync's the tool I would recommend: http://rsync.samba.org/ We love it to pieces. I believe it will handle most of the cases mentioned here (including sparse files). Note: there's been some breakage during the last upgrade round. You may find version 2.3.2 to be more stable than 2.4.3. Peace, dNb

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RE: NetApp backup recommendations
by Kelly Wyatt 10 Apr '00

10 Apr '00

I know this thread has been quiet for a few weeks, but a couple of observations... 1) We back up /vol/voln/.snapshot/hourly.0. Obviously we can't restore there, so we have created /vol/voln/restore on each volume. We restore to any of these dirs on the filer. The restore goes in /vol/voln/restore/original path (without the snapshot... path). Not quite an alternate path restore, but close enough for us :-). 2) The only time we have seen a tape drive problem reboot a filer is if we are messing with a tape drive (like trying to jiggle loose a stuck tape). Other than that, we have never had a tape drive problem reboot our filer. Maybe NetBackup does not keep trying like Budtool. 3) In 3.2 you can backup to another filer (three way backup). It's pretty cool... some of our filers have only one tape drive, and others have two. We have set the filers with one trap drive to use only their own storage units, and the filers with only one tape drive are set to any available. So... if a filer with only one tape drive has a tape drive problem, it will go backup on another filer... at a 50-60% performance hit, but at least there is a backup. This took a little getting used to when we first upgraded to 3.2 when we had filers backing up all over the place. I am hoping to see a more granular selection (or ranking) of storage units from NetBackup in the future. There is one filer with a little bitty robotic tape library in another building who should not ever be used for another filer's backup. I can't prevent that from happening if I have it set any set to "any available". Kelly -- Kelly Wyatt, Kelly.Wyatt(a)SAS.com Systems Programmer Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 http://www.sas.com -----Original Message----- From: Brian Tao [mailto:taob@risc.org] Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 2:01 AM To: Marion Hakanson Cc: Jeff Bryer; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: NetApp backup recommendations On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Marion Hakanson wrote: > > I've been told that NetBackup can only restore NDMP dumps in place, > too -- not to an alternate directory, for example (I haven't > verified that with the vendor). QuickRestore 2.6 can restore an NDMP backup to an alternate *root* path, if I understand the documentation correctly. If you backup /depot/src as a single set, and you want to restore just /depot/src/utilities/billing, you can put that into /otherdir/utilities/billing, but not /otherdir/billing (i.e., the directory pathname beneath the root of the backup must be preserved). A quick call to Workstation Solutions should clear that up, or I can dig out the manual when I'm back at the office on Monday. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't"

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RE: Patch Question
by Bagg, Rod 10 Apr '00

10 Apr '00

The patch release is a separate release with additional content. To download a patch release: 1. Goto and login to the NOW site 2. Select "Software Downloads" from the main NOW page 3. Select "Download Software" 4. Scroll to the bottom of the page (same page as the table that confused you). 5. Enter the desired version where it says: If a technical support engineer gave you a specific ONTAP version, enter it here: and hit enter 6. Scroll down and "Accept" the license agreement 7. Click on the appropriate files to download I will talk with the Manager of the NOW site regarding clarification on that page that confused you. Release content is cumulative, so 5.3.5P2 contains patches on top of 5.3.5 base content. 5.3.5R2 is a newer Engineering release than 5.3.5. We will be releasing (this week) 5.3.5R2P1 which rolls all fixes in 5.3.5P2 on top of the 5.3.5R2 base. Rod Bagg Manager, Sustaining Engineering Network Appliance 408-822-6042 (office) 408-205-9533 (cell) 408-994-2696 (pager) 408-822-4410 (fax) Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web http://now.netapp.com

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Patch question
by Jay Orr 10 Apr '00

10 Apr '00

Uh, simple question - I see there is 5.3.5r2 available on the now site, and next to it is a box "patch 5.3.5p2" with the word "Patch" as a link to an explination. Now, does this mean that if I download the current 5.3.5.r2 image it has p2 applied, or do I have to find p2 somewhere else ('cause I don't see it)? Not the most intuitive (or maybe it's just me)... The way the patch info in the "our releases" seems, being in a different box, it's like it's a different item to download (as opposed to an extension of the description). However, nowhere else in the page is the patch mentioned and the link on "patch" only takes you to the "Software Release Descriptions" page. ----------- Jay Orr Systems Administrator Fujitsu Nexion Inc. St. Louis, MO

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