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13515 discussions

RE: How would you respond to this -Reply
by Joe Luchtenberg 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

You could probably find retail space available at one of the 38 Gateway Country stores that they announced plans to close recently... ;-) Come to think of it, there's no way NetApp management would sign off on it. You wouldn't make the same kind of profit (clothing retail is pretty cut throat, I understand), and shareholders would not stand for overall gross margins dropping below XX% (unless EMC's dropped, too) [1]. Oops, shareholder opinion may be a touchy subject nowadays... [1] Sanitized gross margin figure in case this is a touchy matter to anyone; if it really matters to you the information is public and easy to find; the way I see it NetApp can only charge for their product what the market will bear, so no you didn't pay too much. Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. 757.858.0600 757.285.1223 (cell) 757.858.0606 (fax) joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com www.data-line.com -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:16 PM To: Benn, Paul; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: How would you respond to this -Reply I still think we need a company store...*chuckle* -----Original Message----- From: Benn, Paul [mailto:paul.benn@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 9:16 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: How would you respond to this -Reply Gee, NetApp clothing must be valuable. I've seen a few items on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227231380 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227655648 -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Kelman [mailto:gavin@husky.muscat.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:11 AM To: Timothy Cook Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: How would you respond to this -Reply On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:35:16AM -0400, Timothy Cook wrote: > Maybe I'm missing out on the really important aspect of netapps??? > > For the benefit of you netapp guys who monitor this board, I wear an Extra Large. Just out of interest, can you get ahold of netapp clothing out with them giving you the odd t-shirt at meetings and sales opportunites? My single netapp t-shirt is wearing thin... :) -- Gavin Kelman Phone : 01223 715043 gavin(a)husky.muscat.com Mobile : 07967 360822 Systems Administrator Fax : 01223 715050

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RE: Vif and Cluster setup questions
by Art Hebert 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

> Here is my rc lines: > > ifconfig e6 mediatype 100tx-fd > ifconfig e0 mediatype 100tx-fd > vif create multi vif01 e6 e0 > vif favor e6 > ifconfig vif01 `hostname`-e6 mediatype 100tx-fd partner vif01 ^^^^^ >When specifying the partner of a vif, use the IP address of the partner >interface, not the interface name. >Sam Sam -- I tried using the partner address and it complained. I also tried the hostname of the partner and it also complained. Then I read the archives and someone said you needed to use the name of the virtual interface to get the cluster to work.

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RE: How would you respond to this -Reply
by Mohler, Jeff 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

I still think we need a company store...*chuckle* -----Original Message----- From: Benn, Paul [mailto:paul.benn@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 9:16 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: How would you respond to this -Reply Gee, NetApp clothing must be valuable. I've seen a few items on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227231380 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227655648 -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Kelman [mailto:gavin@husky.muscat.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:11 AM To: Timothy Cook Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: How would you respond to this -Reply On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:35:16AM -0400, Timothy Cook wrote: > Maybe I'm missing out on the really important aspect of netapps??? > > For the benefit of you netapp guys who monitor this board, I wear an Extra Large. Just out of interest, can you get ahold of netapp clothing out with them giving you the odd t-shirt at meetings and sales opportunites? My single netapp t-shirt is wearing thin... :) -- Gavin Kelman Phone : 01223 715043 gavin(a)husky.muscat.com Mobile : 07967 360822 Systems Administrator Fax : 01223 715050

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RE: How would you respond to this -Reply
by Mohler, Jeff 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

i ran into the same problem with [i believe] the cheetah 18G drives. i later found the insignificant little piece of paper stating that there might be a problem if you didn't download the latest disk defs. i can understand the filer not recognizing/using the disk. but slamming to a halt? brrrrrr. the netapp engineer agreed that the notice should be large red and very visable. sad to see that this did not happen. if anyone in netapp-land is listening, could this packaging bug be fixed? thank you. i'd be happy to provide case details to netapp upon request. --- This has a fix. This is part of the 6.1 release which is currently in FCS. You can check details on this on the NOW site. The root of this is..we are very particular over what drives we allow in our systems. Different vendors have different way of "working" and we thoroughly test all drives, models, and specific firmware versions before we release it to the wild. Data protection is whats on our mind here. Clearly there is always a better way, and feedback into Engineering asking why we did it that way resulted in reocnstructing how we deal with non-qualified drives and it no longer causes downtime in the current FCS release of ONTAP 6.1. Please review the FCS documentation on NOW to better understand what our OS release procedures and definitions are. If anyone ever has features for different ways of doing things they want to be heard here at Netapp..open a case and ask. Your technical support rep. will find the answers..and if they dont exist will open an RFE. Your sales contacts are also open to suggestions from the field. Free leather jackets are not considered RFE material..just so were all in sync on that. :^)

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RE: How would you respond to this -Reply
by Benn, Paul 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Gee, NetApp clothing must be valuable. I've seen a few items on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227231380 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227655648 -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Kelman [mailto:gavin@husky.muscat.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 7:11 AM To: Timothy Cook Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: How would you respond to this -Reply On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:35:16AM -0400, Timothy Cook wrote: > Maybe I'm missing out on the really important aspect of netapps??? > > For the benefit of you netapp guys who monitor this board, I wear an Extra Large. Just out of interest, can you get ahold of netapp clothing out with them giving you the odd t-shirt at meetings and sales opportunites? My single netapp t-shirt is wearing thin... :) -- Gavin Kelman Phone : 01223 715043 gavin(a)husky.muscat.com Mobile : 07967 360822 Systems Administrator Fax : 01223 715050

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RE: Vif and Cluster setup questions
by Art Hebert 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Eyal -- I tried vif favor in both multi and single. I can live without load balancing (though I would think that once the one link was saturated, packets from another source would go over the ethernet connection in the vif). My main concern is it wants to use e0 all the time. We have found here that we had to move the 100mb nic to slot 6 to get performance, we had netapp come out and we finally had to use the following configuration. Copying a 100mb file to e0 would take 24 sec, copying to the nic card in another slot would take 24 sec. It wasn't until we moved it to slot 6 and used 8k packets did we get 10 sec copy times. So the e6 is 100mb. smf760-01> sysconfig -v NetApp Release 5.3.6R2: Sat Aug 5 09:40:44 PDT 2000 System ID: 0016800487 (smf760-01); partner ID: 0016800485 (smf760-02) slot 0: System Board (NetApp System Board V N8) Model Name: F760 Serial Number: 235663 Firmware release: 2.3_a2 Memory Size: 1024 MB slot 0: Fibre Channel Host Adapter 0a (Qlogic ISP2100 rev. 3, 64-bit) Firmware rev: 1.19.6 Host Loop Id: 7 FC Node Name: 2:000:00a098:03988f Cacheline size: 8 FC Packet size: 2048 slot 0: SCSI Host Adapter 0b (Qlogic ISP 1040B) Fast/Wide, Differential Firmware Version 4.65 Clock Rate 60MHz. slot 0: Ethernet Controller e0 MAC Address: 00:a0:98:00:7d:b4 (auto--down) slot 4: Fibre Channel Host Adapter 4 (Qlogic ISP2100 rev. 3, 32-bit) Firmware rev: 1.19.6 Host Loop Id: 7 FC Node Name: 2:000:00e08b:018aa7 Cacheline size: 8 FC Packet size: 2048 0: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 1: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 2: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 3: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 4: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 5: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 6: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) Shelf 0: VEM Kernel Version : 2.5 App. Version : 3.0 slot 6: FastEnet-10/100 Ethernet Controller Device Type: 82559 e6 MAC Address: 00:90:27:be:a8:b5 (auto-100tx-fd-up) slot 7: Fibre Channel Host Adapter 7 (Qlogic ISP2100 rev. 3, 32-bit) Firmware rev: 1.19.6 Host Loop Id: 7 FC Node Name: 2:000:00e08b:0189a7 Cacheline size: 8 FC Packet size: 2048 0: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 1: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 2: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 3: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 4: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 5: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) 6: SEAGATE ST318203FC NA07 Size=17.0GB (35566480 blocks) Shelf 0: VEM Kernel Version : 2.5 App. Version : 3.0 slot 8: Interconnect adapter (Tandem ServerNet SPA 1.5) slot 9: NVRAM (NetApp NVRAM II) Revision: A0 Serial Number: 23271 Memory Size: 32 MB Battery 1 Status: 100% (3.22v) Battery 2 Status: 100% (3.22v) thanks art -----Original Message----- From: Traitel, Eyal [mailto:eyal@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:52 AM To: 'Art Hebert'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Vif and Cluster setup questions I'm almost 100% percent sure that vif favor will affect only single vifs. I will check later on, but you should be able to see that in docs as well. Regarding load balancing - EtherChannel is more about failover than balancing. It distributes to ports based on last 2 bits of MAC address. In real life, one device is becoming the one that's more used than the others. Is e6 GbE ? Can you post your sysconfig -v ? Eyal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Art Hebert [mailto:art@arzoon.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 4:55 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Vif and Cluster setup questions > I've read all the posts and I am having some success and some failures. > > > 2 F760 filers clustered together, onboard ethernet (e0), 10/100 nic > (e6) > Cisco 6509 switch trunked together > > I'm trying to get the e0 and e6 ports to work failover for each > other and ideally > load balance to get better performance. > > I've been able to get the virtual interface running and fail the > cluster and everything is > fine but I can't get it to load balance (I even tried 4 clients > hitting it copying 500mb files) > and it seems to always want to use e0, even if I do a "vif favor e6" > > Here is my rc lines: > > ifconfig e6 mediatype 100tx-fd > ifconfig e0 mediatype 100tx-fd > vif create multi vif01 e6 e0 > vif favor e6 > ifconfig vif01 `hostname`-e6 mediatype 100tx-fd partner vif01 > > Now I added the vif favor e6 even though its multi (shouldn't have > to it should load balance), right? > Does it matter what order the e6 and e0 commands come in, seems that > it affects how vif stat reports? > Can I even use e0 and e6 together or should I have another card? its > on the 32 bit bus > and performance is half of e6. > Are the nic cards in the netapps anything special or can I use a > well known brand ? > > > Thanks > > Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> > Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 522-6125 > Mobile: 650 444-8667 >

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RE: Vif and Cluster setup questions
by Traitel, Eyal 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

I'm almost 100% percent sure that vif favor will affect only single vifs. I will check later on, but you should be able to see that in docs as well. Regarding load balancing - EtherChannel is more about failover than balancing. It distributes to ports based on last 2 bits of MAC address. In real life, one device is becoming the one that's more used than the others. Is e6 GbE ? Can you post your sysconfig -v ? Eyal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Art Hebert [mailto:art@arzoon.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 4:55 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Vif and Cluster setup questions > I've read all the posts and I am having some success and some failures. > > > 2 F760 filers clustered together, onboard ethernet (e0), 10/100 nic > (e6) > Cisco 6509 switch trunked together > > I'm trying to get the e0 and e6 ports to work failover for each > other and ideally > load balance to get better performance. > > I've been able to get the virtual interface running and fail the > cluster and everything is > fine but I can't get it to load balance (I even tried 4 clients > hitting it copying 500mb files) > and it seems to always want to use e0, even if I do a "vif favor e6" > > Here is my rc lines: > > ifconfig e6 mediatype 100tx-fd > ifconfig e0 mediatype 100tx-fd > vif create multi vif01 e6 e0 > vif favor e6 > ifconfig vif01 `hostname`-e6 mediatype 100tx-fd partner vif01 > > Now I added the vif favor e6 even though its multi (shouldn't have > to it should load balance), right? > Does it matter what order the e6 and e0 commands come in, seems that > it affects how vif stat reports? > Can I even use e0 and e6 together or should I have another card? its > on the 32 bit bus > and performance is half of e6. > Are the nic cards in the netapps anything special or can I use a > well known brand ? > > > Thanks > > Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> > Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 522-6125 > Mobile: 650 444-8667 >

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Re: ndmpcopy patch -- "level i"
by Thomas.L.White＠chase.com 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

---------------------- Forwarded by Thomas L. White/CHASE on 04/20/2001 11:31 AM --------------------------- Thomas L. White 04/20/2001 11:32 AM To: jkrueger(a)qualcomm.com cc: Subject: Re: ndmpcopy patch -- "level i" my curiosity here is whether I should use the -i or 1-9 what would you suggest. And what do you know about the method used for level i or 1-9 ? to wit: will the ndmpcopy -i serve up every file and have the destination filer decidde if it needs to update or not ??? in other words will the incremental take 25 minutes or 5 hours ?? tw ---------------------- Forwarded by Thomas L. White/CHASE on 04/20/2001 11:23 AM --------------------------- Thomas L. White 04/20/2001 09:54 AM To: Jeffrey Krueger <jkrueger(a)qualcomm.com> cc: ptran(a)broadcom.com Subject: Re: ndmpcopy patch -- "level i" (Document link: Thomas L. White) Jeff: We have a situation here that requires me to rebuild a (400G on 21X36G drive) volume onto 72G drives so - last night I ran ndmpcopy without any arguments. It seems to be running fine - 310G has been written so-far and I plan to let it run to completion this a.m. My problem is my boss - he has a 0 confidence level re: the incremental step of ndmpcopy and wants the next "update" to occur by way of robocopy and rdist. Since we plan to physically swap the drives saturday - I would guess this approach would not be finished by then. so - are you aware of any tool that can compare "source volume" to "destination volume" and give him the assurance that this pass and the update pass tonight completed successfully ??? thanks for your indulgence. tw Jeffrey Krueger <jkrueger(a)qualcomm.com>@mathworks.com on 04/19/2001 09:58:38 PM Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com To: Peter Tran <ptran(a)broadcom.com> cc: Jeffrey Krueger <jkrueger(a)qualcomm.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: ndmpcopy patch -- "level i" Peter: Yes, we did have a problem with a level 1 copy based on a level 0 copy of data with ndmpcopy last year. Afterwards, we could not reproduce the problem and at some point another toaster user said they had the same problem and it was tracked down to a bug in a previous version of ONTAP. We had been wary of ndmpcopy for level 1-9 copies, but still used it with caution and had no difficulties. The "level i" feature of ndmpcopy is even more attractive and has worked very nicely for us in the past few months. Our confidence level with ndmpcopy is very high these days. As for if it can "be the trusted tool for safely and effectively migrating/moving data between filers", that's a question that only NetApp support can answer! =) -- Jeff On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 05:21:01PM -0700, Peter Tran wrote: > > Jeff, > > I recall seeing an email from you stating that you had problem with > incremental NDMPcopy the last time you used it. Specifically many of the > files in the destination directory were corrupted or mangled. You had to > resort to rsync to fix this problem. Is this still the case with > incremental NDMPcopy. What's your confidence level with it now? Can > incremental NDMPcopy be the "trusted" tool for safely and effectively > migrating/moving data between the filers? Thanks. > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com > [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Krueger > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:39 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Cc: ndmp-users(a)ndmp.org > Subject: ndmpcopy patch -- "level i" > > > Thanks to Bruce for posting his patch to NDMPcopy! Here's the one that > we've been using and all the information we've collected about it. > > I've uploaded the following patch for ndmpcopy to ftp.ndmp.org in addition > to attaching it to this e-mail. Please read the entire mail before > attempting to apply the patch or use the functionality it provides. > > ---------------- > WHAT DOES IT DO? > ---------------- > This is a very small, straight-forward patch that will enable ndmpcopy to > make an indefinite number of incremental copies of data. The ability to do > this was not included in ndmpcopy, but was a part of jndmpcopy - the Java > version of ndmpcopy. The feature is used by passing the command-line > argument "-level i" to ndmpcopy once the patch is compiled in. > > The incremental feature is very useful for migrating a directory from one > filer/volume to another. It allows you to make an initial copy and then > perform periodical incremental updates of the changes until a cut-over > period. During the cut-over period, you can make the source read-only or > unaccessible and perform a final incremental copy while updating clients to > point at the new location. > > Without "level i", you can only do 9 incremental copies (level 1-9). With > this enhancement, you can do as many incremental copies as you need. > > ----------------- > HOW DOES IT WORK? > ----------------- > Our analysis of jndmpcopy showed that this feature was driven by simply > replacing the NDMP environment variable "LEVEL" which is normally set to a > number 0-9, with the NDMP environment variable "REPLICATE" and a value of > "y". Again, this action is triggered in the patch by specifying "-level i" > on the command line. > > Normally, ndmpcopy gives the following output near the beginning of a copy: > > disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this level 0 dump: Tue Apr 17 > 14:22:43 2001. > disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch. > > When using the "-level i" option, that output will look like this: > > disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this replication dump: Tue > Apr 17 14:24:45 2001. > disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this last update : the epoch. > > It adds a line to /etc/dumpdates for the directory you copied which > contains "i" for the level. Presumably this shouldn't be messed with as it > keeps track of what the next level "i" for that directory needs to copy. I > also assume that this means you can't do a level "i" of /qtree from filerA > to filerB, then do another one from filerA to filerC, then back to filerB > again. > > This works like a dandy for us running Data ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and 5.3.7R3. > > ------- > CAVEATS > ------- > o USE THIS PATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK! The patch isn't supported by myself, my > company, or NetApp. Before using this feature, you should have a fair > understanding of C programming and a good understanding of how NetApp > filers work, especially with NDMP. > > o I'm unsure what versions of ONTAP support the "REPLICATE" NDMP > environment variable. So far I can't find any documentation of this, > although jndmpcopy eludes to it working with ONTAP 5.3 and higher. > Maybe someone from NetApp can chime in here? > > o Level i copies will *not* work with level 0-9 copies of the same source > and destination. That is, you cannot do a "-level 0" ndmpcopy to move > data initially, then use "-level i" to make updates. For that matter, > you can't use any other method to do the initial copy such as "vol copy", > dump/restore, rsync, etc. If you want to use "-level i" at all, you must > use it to do the initial copy and all updates. > > o Don't modify the destination until you're done updating it. Once the > destination is modified, another "level i" will likely *not* be able to > update that destination. > > o Be aware of "level i" entries in /etc/dumpdates! Don't delete a "level i" > entry for a source if you still want to be able to do further updates to > the same destination. Conversely, if you're done using this method to > move a directory, and want to use it again on the same source (or a > source which eventually has the same name) to a different (new, blank) > destination, you'll have to remove the "level i" entry out of > /etc/dumpdates for the source directory. Also, don't try to perform > "level i" copies of the same source to multiple destinations. > > -------------------- > HOW DO I INSTALL IT? > -------------------- > There are two separate patches attached, one for version 1.1 and one for > 1.2 of ndmpcopy (they vary only slightly because of the usage statement). > If you are new to patching the following instructions may help you. > > 1) Copy the patch into the base directory of ndmpcopy. > ex. % cp ndmpcopy-level_i.patch ~/ndmpcopy-1.1 > > 2) Enter the base directory of ndmpcopy. > ex. % cd ~/ndmpcopy-1.1 > > 3) Patch the source (example uses GNU patch) > ex. % patch -p 1 -b -z .orig -i ndmpcopy_1.1-level_i.patch > > 4) Build the package > ex. % make clean; make > > -------------------------------- > ANYTHING ELSE, JEFF-THE-WINDBAG? > -------------------------------- > The contribution of this patch to the NetApp/NDMP community is intended to > help folks out with administering their filers. This feature is pretty > handy for migrating data between filers and/or volumes. Although I'm not > offering any support of this patch, I am interested in any feedback > regarding it so that it can be improved for everyone's benefit. In > particular, I'm looking for: > > o NetApp/NDMP official information about the REPLICATE variable - versions > of ONTAP it can be used with, confirmation of the identified caveats, > etc. > > o User's experiences with the feature - does it work, does it fail, under > what circumstances, etc. > > o Programming tips - suggestions for improving the patch. > > Also, I will be posting this along with this information in this e-mail and > any feedback I get to my personal website. The URL will be posted in a > follow-up mail in a few weeks. > > Good luck! > > -- Jeff > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com > Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 > NetApp Filers / UNIX Infrastructure Fax: 858-651-6627 > QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com > > >

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RE: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp?
by Traitel, Eyal 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Sorry Steve... I know only little Veritas, and only 3.2 :) Thanks ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Steve Kappel [mailto:steve.kappel@raistlin.min.ov.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 4:17 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp? FYI VERITAS NetBackup NDMP fully supports (release 3.4 onward) restoring NDMP backups to a different NDMP host (same vendor of course). The general NetBackup term for this is "alternate client restore". >From: "Traitel, Eyal" <eyal(a)netapp.com> >To: "Schepers, Jan" <Jan.Schepers(a)nl.origin-it.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com >Subject: RE: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp? >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:44:29 -0700 > >Jan, > >I am sure this trick is not supported officially by Legato/Veritas/others, >but this has been used successfully, and is VERY easy to do: > >Just edit /etc/hosts file on your Legato host to point the need-to-be-recovered filer to the IP of the one that's replacement. >As NDMP doesn't really care about that, as long as the restore path is fine... > >Eyal. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer > CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA > > Network Appliance BV > Holland Office Center > Kruisweg 799b > 2132 NG, Hoofddorp > The Netherlands >Office: +31 23 567 9685 >Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 >Email: eyal(a)netapp.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Schepers, Jan [mailto:Jan.Schepers@nl.origin-it.com] >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:45 AM >To: toasters(a)mathworks.com >Subject: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp? > > >Hello list, > >possibly you read the following line in the Legato's Networker 6 >SysAdminGuide > > > >The Networker Administrator Guide (6.0) shows in chapter 12 , >the section on NDMP limitations the following : > > NetApp Computers and NDMP > Keep in mind the following limitations when > you use NDMP and NetApp: > * You cannot recover a NetApp NDMP backup to > another NetApp. You can only recover data > to the original host. > >Does this mean that my faith fully daily made backups are >worthless in case of a disaster? > >rgds, > >Yann __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve(a)stevekappel.com (Personal)

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Vif and Cluster setup questions
by Art Hebert 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

> I've read all the posts and I am having some success and some failures. > > > 2 F760 filers clustered together, onboard ethernet (e0), 10/100 nic > (e6) > Cisco 6509 switch trunked together > > I'm trying to get the e0 and e6 ports to work failover for each > other and ideally > load balance to get better performance. > > I've been able to get the virtual interface running and fail the > cluster and everything is > fine but I can't get it to load balance (I even tried 4 clients > hitting it copying 500mb files) > and it seems to always want to use e0, even if I do a "vif favor e6" > > Here is my rc lines: > > ifconfig e6 mediatype 100tx-fd > ifconfig e0 mediatype 100tx-fd > vif create multi vif01 e6 e0 > vif favor e6 > ifconfig vif01 `hostname`-e6 mediatype 100tx-fd partner vif01 > > Now I added the vif favor e6 even though its multi (shouldn't have > to it should load balance), right? > Does it matter what order the e6 and e0 commands come in, seems that > it affects how vif stat reports? > Can I even use e0 and e6 together or should I have another card? its > on the 32 bit bus > and performance is half of e6. > Are the nic cards in the netapps anything special or can I use a > well known brand ? > > > Thanks > > Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> > Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 522-6125 > Mobile: 650 444-8667 >

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RE: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp?
by Traitel, Eyal 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Jan, I am sure this trick is not supported officially by Legato/Veritas/others, but this has been used successfully, and is VERY easy to do: Just edit /etc/hosts file on your Legato host to point the need-to-be-recovered filer to the IP of the one that's replacement. As NDMP doesn't really care about that, as long as the restore path is fine... Eyal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Schepers, Jan [mailto:Jan.Schepers@nl.origin-it.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:45 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp? Hello list, possibly you read the following line in the Legato's Networker 6 SysAdminGuide The Networker Administrator Guide (6.0) shows in chapter 12 , the section on NDMP limitations the following : NetApp Computers and NDMP Keep in mind the following limitations when you use NDMP and NetApp: * You cannot recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp. You can only recover data to the original host. Does this mean that my faith fully daily made backups are worthless in case of a disaster? rgds, Yann

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Can you not recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp?
by Schepers, Jan 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Hello list, possibly you read the following line in the Legato's Networker 6 SysAdminGuide The Networker Administrator Guide (6.0) shows in chapter 12 , the section on NDMP limitations the following : NetApp Computers and NDMP Keep in mind the following limitations when you use NDMP and NetApp: * You cannot recover a NetApp NDMP backup to another NetApp. You can only recover data to the original host. Does this mean that my faith fully daily made backups are worthless in case of a disaster? rgds, Yann

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ndmpcopy patch -- "level i"
by Jeffrey Krueger 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Thanks to Bruce for posting his patch to NDMPcopy! Here's the one that we've been using and all the information we've collected about it. I've uploaded the following patch for ndmpcopy to ftp.ndmp.org in addition to attaching it to this e-mail. Please read the entire mail before attempting to apply the patch or use the functionality it provides. ---------------- WHAT DOES IT DO? ---------------- This is a very small, straight-forward patch that will enable ndmpcopy to make an indefinite number of incremental copies of data. The ability to do this was not included in ndmpcopy, but was a part of jndmpcopy - the Java version of ndmpcopy. The feature is used by passing the command-line argument "-level i" to ndmpcopy once the patch is compiled in. The incremental feature is very useful for migrating a directory from one filer/volume to another. It allows you to make an initial copy and then perform periodical incremental updates of the changes until a cut-over period. During the cut-over period, you can make the source read-only or unaccessible and perform a final incremental copy while updating clients to point at the new location. Without "level i", you can only do 9 incremental copies (level 1-9). With this enhancement, you can do as many incremental copies as you need. ----------------- HOW DOES IT WORK? ----------------- Our analysis of jndmpcopy showed that this feature was driven by simply replacing the NDMP environment variable "LEVEL" which is normally set to a number 0-9, with the NDMP environment variable "REPLICATE" and a value of "y". Again, this action is triggered in the patch by specifying "-level i" on the command line. Normally, ndmpcopy gives the following output near the beginning of a copy: disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this level 0 dump: Tue Apr 17 14:22:43 2001. disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of last level 0 dump: the epoch. When using the "-level i" option, that output will look like this: disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this replication dump: Tue Apr 17 14:24:45 2001. disposal: LOG: DUMP: disposal: LOG: Date of this last update : the epoch. It adds a line to /etc/dumpdates for the directory you copied which contains "i" for the level. Presumably this shouldn't be messed with as it keeps track of what the next level "i" for that directory needs to copy. I also assume that this means you can't do a level "i" of /qtree from filerA to filerB, then do another one from filerA to filerC, then back to filerB again. This works like a dandy for us running Data ONTAP 5.3.4R3P2 and 5.3.7R3. ------- CAVEATS ------- o USE THIS PATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK! The patch isn't supported by myself, my company, or NetApp. Before using this feature, you should have a fair understanding of C programming and a good understanding of how NetApp filers work, especially with NDMP. o I'm unsure what versions of ONTAP support the "REPLICATE" NDMP environment variable. So far I can't find any documentation of this, although jndmpcopy eludes to it working with ONTAP 5.3 and higher. Maybe someone from NetApp can chime in here? o Level i copies will *not* work with level 0-9 copies of the same source and destination. That is, you cannot do a "-level 0" ndmpcopy to move data initially, then use "-level i" to make updates. For that matter, you can't use any other method to do the initial copy such as "vol copy", dump/restore, rsync, etc. If you want to use "-level i" at all, you must use it to do the initial copy and all updates. o Don't modify the destination until you're done updating it. Once the destination is modified, another "level i" will likely *not* be able to update that destination. o Be aware of "level i" entries in /etc/dumpdates! Don't delete a "level i" entry for a source if you still want to be able to do further updates to the same destination. Conversely, if you're done using this method to move a directory, and want to use it again on the same source (or a source which eventually has the same name) to a different (new, blank) destination, you'll have to remove the "level i" entry out of /etc/dumpdates for the source directory. Also, don't try to perform "level i" copies of the same source to multiple destinations. -------------------- HOW DO I INSTALL IT? -------------------- There are two separate patches attached, one for version 1.1 and one for 1.2 of ndmpcopy (they vary only slightly because of the usage statement). If you are new to patching the following instructions may help you. 1) Copy the patch into the base directory of ndmpcopy. ex. % cp ndmpcopy-level_i.patch ~/ndmpcopy-1.1 2) Enter the base directory of ndmpcopy. ex. % cd ~/ndmpcopy-1.1 3) Patch the source (example uses GNU patch) ex. % patch -p 1 -b -z .orig -i ndmpcopy_1.1-level_i.patch 4) Build the package ex. % make clean; make -------------------------------- ANYTHING ELSE, JEFF-THE-WINDBAG? -------------------------------- The contribution of this patch to the NetApp/NDMP community is intended to help folks out with administering their filers. This feature is pretty handy for migrating data between filers and/or volumes. Although I'm not offering any support of this patch, I am interested in any feedback regarding it so that it can be improved for everyone's benefit. In particular, I'm looking for: o NetApp/NDMP official information about the REPLICATE variable - versions of ONTAP it can be used with, confirmation of the identified caveats, etc. o User's experiences with the feature - does it work, does it fail, under what circumstances, etc. o Programming tips - suggestions for improving the patch. Also, I will be posting this along with this information in this e-mail and any feedback I get to my personal website. The URL will be posted in a follow-up mail in a few weeks. Good luck! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 NetApp Filers / UNIX Infrastructure Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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Re: How would you respond to this
by Quentin Fennessy 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Barry wrote> > This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a > company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low > performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is > reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant > misrepresentation of a competitors product? I've run into similar situations. I politely and strongly told the messenger who delivered such a message that this marketing tactic is unacceptable. In my most recent incident I told the salesperson that if I ever received such material from them again I would call the Sales VP and require that I work with someone else from their company. In that incident I never forced the salesperson to admit that he wrote the FUD document that I objected to. He indirectly admitted it, and I've seen nothing similar from him. The most powerful weapon you have to deal with this is your attention. If you ignore a salesperson and tell his/her management why, they will be dinged for it. Of course, your influence is factored by how much money you have spent in the past with them, and the likely purchase you could make. If all you have to spend is $20K then they can blow you off easily. (I'm not saying this is your case) Don't get upset over this sign of weakness on the vendors part. It's not worth it. Stupid, small and evil people will always be with us. -- Quentin Fennessy Quentin.Fennessy(a)amd.com Office: 512.602.3873 Cell: 512.694.7489

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RE:
by Fox, Adam 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

It should. Read up on how symlinks affect CIFS if that affects you, but for NFS, it works just fine. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:PMAGLINGER@scvl.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 5:00 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: We're running a 740 with Ontap 5.3.7R2. Will it accept a UNIX LN command, specifically: ln -s source_path dest_path Thank you. Have a prosperous and profitable day! _____ Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE PC Specialist Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com <mailto:pmaglinger@scvl.com> _____

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Mike Sphar 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Ah, good. That's what I assumed since a RAID 0 solution didn't seem to make sense for what the F85 was designed for and, of course, I was far too lazy to look it up myself. You know, of all the things in that original email that were "subjective", stuff about expandability and the quality of support, etc. I could accept a salesperson being shifty about claims in those areas. Our support is better than theirs, we're faster, more reliable, yadda yadda yadda. But to make such a blatantly false claim about something that is a demonstrable fact. Like I said before, that would tick me off more than anything else, and I likely wouldn't deal with that company afterwards. At the very least, I would insist on a new sales rep. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:15 PM To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'Barry Lustig'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: How would you respond to this Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.) --- Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, and with outstanding performance compared to any other filesystem or features the competition can throw at us.

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Phillips, Steve 20 Apr '01

20 Apr '01

Just a quick note on the statement below: The F85 supports RAID-4 only, as do all other products running Data ONTAP. I/we consider this a good thing. :) ------------------------------------------------------- Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.)

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F85 RAID Level
by Clouthier,Ron 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Let me set the story straight. I am the product manager for the F85 and as such I can tell you that the F85 utilizes RAID 4. Ron Clouthier Product Marketing Manager Network Appliance (408) 822 6485

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Mohler, Jeff 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.) --- Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, and with outstanding performance compared to any other filesystem or features the competition can throw at us.

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RE: migrating data between filers
by Fox, Adam 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Not too many. Maybe these are obvious, maybe not, but I'll list them anyway. 1. You'll need a 2-disk root volume on your F840 and migrate to another volume. Remember the destination volume must be offline. 2. If you're F840 is running 6.x, the filer may revert your volume before it starts the transfer. This happens with SnapMirror, and may with vol copy. No big deal..just wait it out. 3. Make sure you turn off user access to the source before you start. Or at least make it read only. You don't want to have changes not propogate. Otherwise, go for it. I've moved lots of stuff this way. It works pretty well. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Leonard, Roger [mailto:Roger.Leonard@marconi.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:38 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: migrating data between filers > > > i am getting ready to migrate some data from 330's to an 840 > using volcopy. > has anyone done this out there and do you have > any recomendations and/or gotchas? >

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Clawson, Simon 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

That is rather unprofesional. I think the sales guy would be wrapped across the knuckles for that one. Coming from a software vendor support environment I have always been told never to rubbish a competitors product. It would have been frowned upon and I would have looked quite sily to boot! -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: 19 April 2001 21:41 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Mike Sphar 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

I would probably agree that the F85 is not as scalable as the other, but that's the whole point of the F85. It's a lower-end entry-point model. It's not meant to grow into a multi-terabyte enterprise environment. Now, some people might say "Well, if you have the option of growth, why not take it? Why get a system that you'll only have to replace in 3-5 years when you could have a system that will last you much longer?" My response to that is usually "Because in 3-5 years, technology will have changed so drastically that I'll probably want new hardware anyway." When I'm scoping hardware, I almost never spec out hardware to accommodate more than 3-5 years of growth. Trying to buy a system meant to last longer than that is usually overkill in my experience. Plus, after 3 years it's fully depreciated. I certainly disagree with the statements about Netapp support. I'm sure you'll hear horror stories now and then from any support organization, but I've always had great support from Netapp. I've several times had a replacement component arrive on my desk before I knew it was needed. Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true that it's not as failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, then it's simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If capacity and performance are far more important to you then redundancy, then RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised if it really was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would immediately turn me off to any vendor.) None of this is to say that the IP4700 is a bad machine. I don't know it well enough to say. But it sounds to me that it isn't designed for the same target market as the F85. It's comparing apples to oranges. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 1:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Thomas.L.White＠chase.com 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

they usually do. this is a given in the game. They must attack in this manner because they know the truth behind the slander. tw "Golliher, Blake" <Blake.Golliher(a)netapp.com>@mathworks.com on 04/19/2001 05:41:52 PM Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com To: "'Barry Lustig'" <barry(a)lustig.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com cc: Subject: RE: How would you respond to this why don't they just call us funny lookin', and say "mothers wear army boots!" while they're at it. sheesh! Blake! ~=) -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 1:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Golliher, Blake 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

why don't they just call us funny lookin', and say "mothers wear army boots!" while they're at it. sheesh! Blake! ~=) -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 1:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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Fwd: FW: How would you respond to this
by mark C 19 Apr '01

19 Apr '01

Typical blatant lies from EMC trying to pass of that thing as a NAS box. We get on-site service with 2 hour response time from NTAP. We also had the IP4700 here for evaluation. We benched it against an F720, which was about the same in performance, but light years behind in EVERYTHING ELSE. Which EMC used to bate and switch us to the SYM/Cellera combo, and then the discounting!!!....... Why not give us the price the first or 2nd time we ask. If you want a chuckle ask for the IP4700 System Admin guide in .pdf, then scan for the phrase "lose data," that should come up about a dozen times. Bottom line- do you want to do business with a company that will lie to your face? Yes, they do have some good Nick's tickets! Do a side by side comparison, and tell EMC you'll publish the results- then watch them back pedal! Frank > > > >This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a >company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low >performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is >reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant >misrepresentation of a competitors product? > >barry > > > >A few highlights of the comparison: > >- The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple >points of >failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very >low >by >industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user >must >install themselves. > >- The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no >single >point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world >class >customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner >Group. >Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by >EMC >technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system >monitors >trends >within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service >center. >Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component >actually >fails. > >The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID >5 >parity >and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to >7000GB >(7TB) >vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. > >In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor >customer >service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, >and >utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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