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13515 discussions

Re: snapshot backup
by Rick Hulsey 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

It is different in that the snapshots represent read only copies of the files in the filesystem. When you use NFS to mount the snapshot and copy the files to tape, Legato will still look at the time stamps on the files and backup the files that have changed since the time stamp in the Legato client file index. This means that Legato will backup files that have changed since the last backup if you specify an incremental backup. However, that is different than the block level changes that are always ongoing in the WAFL filesystem, and it is that characteristic that enable snapshots to work. All of the stuff related to WAFL (internal filesystem stuff) is, and has to be transparent to the backup software and even the operating system. Based on all of that stuff it looks to me like Legato can not do what you are looking for. >>> "E.J. Jantz" <ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com> 04/25/01 08:55AM >>> just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? thanks... EJ Jantz, IST Dept. BSW International One West Third, Ste 100 Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 918 582-8771 ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com 918 295-4166 918 587-3594 fax >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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Adding a 36gb shelf to F740 with 18gb shelves
by Jeff Bryer 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

We have an F740 with 3 shelves of 18GB disks. It's config'd as two volumes (two raid sets). We've almost outgrown the capacity (we're down to one hot spare and a free disk). We want to add a new disk shelf to the system, but we're wondering if we're going to lose anything by going to a shelf of 36gb disks. We don't have any intention of adding new volumes (or new raid sets), just growing the existing volumes. Can we add a shelf of 36gb disks and then switch our 2 existing 18gb parity disks over to 36gb disks? We'd keep a 36gb disk as a hot spare and use all of the 18gb disks in the volumes (including the 2 freed up parity disks and the freed up hot spare). Are we going to run into problems with this? Or do we need to keep an 18gb disk around as a hot spare as well (ie when an 18gb disks dies and uses a 36gb disks as a hot spare, can we force it to go back to the 18gb disk once the faulty 18gb disk has been replaced?). Are the 36gb disks going to be used at full capacity in this situation (when mixed with the 18gb)? Or is there a better way to do this? Thanks, -- Jeff Bryer bryer(a)sfu.ca Systems Administrator (604) 291-4935 Academic Computing, Simon Fraser University

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RE: snapshot backup
by Melvin, Grant 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hi Igor, > There's one potential problem - if your backup does not finish in time > between 2 snapshots, they will rotate (say, hourly.0 will become > hourly.1, and the new hourly.0 has started) , so in the end you're > backing up not what you started backing up. For scheduled backups one > should be cautious to, for example, do a full backup from weekly.0 and > incremental one from nightly.0, but if you're doing a on-the-fly > dump, always keep your snapshot schedule in mind. The snapshots used to rotate and dump would then crash the filer, since all its knowledge about a static filesystem just changed! So now we lock the snapshot that dump is backing up and the rotation of snapshots would fail which is also not good, but preserves data availability. You can create (or rename) snapshots with your own names, such as vob_snap, but once you do this you (the user) are managing the snapshot, i.e. dump creates & deletes its snapshots, snapmirror creates & deletes its snapshots, snap sched creates & ... well you get the picture. Cheers, Grant

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Re: snapshot backup
by jharrington＠millermartin.com 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

We are using Backup Exec and to get around the time constraints of the snapshots came up with the following option. Backup exec will execute a command before the backup to create a new snapshot called backup-snap "rsh filer1 snap create vol1 backup-snap" Once that is done it will run the job we created to backup the newly created backup-snap snapshot and once it has finished it will delete the snapshot "rsh filer1 snap delete vol1 backup-snap" Igor Schein <igor(a)txc.com> on 04/25/2001 05:06:20 PM Please respond to igor(a)txc.com To: "Traitel, Eyal" <eyal(a)netapp.com> cc: "'E.J. Jantz'" <ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com, simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com (bcc: Joe Harrington/M&M) Subject: Re: snapshot backup On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 08:28:39AM -0700, Traitel, Eyal wrote: > Our snapshots are to be more exact "copy on new write" as opposed to "copy on old write", with the advantage of no penalty at all in terms of performance of taking the snapshot, and performance of filesystem after taking it (think of "copy on old write" - filesystem needs to read old block, write it in the backup location, then write the new block in old place - that's 3 I/Os. For us it's only 1). > We do not have to go back to specific locations on the disk, and that's a real advantage in terms of performance. > > In regards to full compared to snapshot - with NetApp, it's probably always better to backup snapshots, as they are point-in-time - when you've started your backup at 19:00, all of it will be consistent to 19:00 sharp, unlike traditional backup, which data changes while you backup... So - if you get me right - you can even do full backup from a snapshot... There's one potential problem - if your backup does not finish in time between 2 snapshots, they will rotate (say, hourly.0 will become hourly.1, and the new hourly.0 has started) , so in the end you're backing up not what you started backing up. For scheduled backups one should be cautious to, for example, do a full backup from weekly.0 and incremental one from nightly.0, but if you're doing a on-the-fly dump, always keep your snapshot schedule in mind. Igor

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RE: fibre channel hubs
by Aiello, Tony 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Neil, Hubs will create a problem for you in this application. I imagine you'd configure the unmanaged hub with two or more filers and the library all attached to a port on the hub. When things init, the filers will become aware of each other because they will be present in the map of devices on the Fibre Channel loop. They will then proceed to attempt to login with each other. As their both initiators, this won't go well. The other problem will be that resets propagate. Action by one filer could easily reset your tape drive causing the backup or restore to abort. It was for exactly these reasons we went with the managed hub solution. By partitioning or zoning properly each filer sees only the tape drives and propagation of resets or loop initializations is filtered. You might be interested in checking NOW for information on our real fabric implementation. It has some very nice features. You can connect many filers into a Brocade switch and share multiple tape drives. We've also added a feature called tape aliasing. Tape aliasing works in conjunction with these shared resource to insure that there's a consistent mapping of tape devices to logical tape names. It insures that from filer to filer if you want to use rst0a it will always be a tape drive at either a certain switch,port,id location or will always find a device with a particular world-wide name regardless of where its attached. You can choose. Check it out on NOW at: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/SAN_GOLD/FC2/index.shtml Tony ------------------------------------------- Tony Aiello, Mgr. Storage SW mailto:taiello@netapp.com Ph:(408)822-6515 > -----Original Message----- > From: neil lehrer [mailto:nlehrer@ibb.gov] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 12:46 PM > To: toasters > Subject: fibre channel hubs > > > has netapp qualified any of the vixel hubs for tape backup? > the hubs are much > cheaper than the vixel 8100 and i don't think the lesser > performance will be an > issue in my case - two filers. > > thanks >

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RE: snapshot backup
by Traitel, Eyal 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Our snapshots are to be more exact "copy on new write" as opposed to "copy on old write", with the advantage of no penalty at all in terms of performance of taking the snapshot, and performance of filesystem after taking it (think of "copy on old write" - filesystem needs to read old block, write it in the backup location, then write the new block in old place - that's 3 I/Os. For us it's only 1). We do not have to go back to specific locations on the disk, and that's a real advantage in terms of performance. In regards to full compared to snapshot - with NetApp, it's probably always better to backup snapshots, as they are point-in-time - when you've started your backup at 19:00, all of it will be consistent to 19:00 sharp, unlike traditional backup, which data changes while you backup... So - if you get me right - you can even do full backup from a snapshot... On Legato - I think you can just mention .snapshot/hourly.0 for example in your path of backup. If you use NDMP, you anyway backup a snapshot, as the filer's dump creates one automatically for you. Hope it somewhat helps, Eyal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: E.J. Jantz [mailto:ej_jantz@bswintl.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:55 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com Subject: Re: snapshot backup just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? thanks... EJ Jantz, IST Dept. BSW International One West Third, Ste 100 Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 918 582-8771 ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com 918 295-4166 918 587-3594 fax >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: snapshot backup
by Melvin, Grant 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hi Simon, > Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore > from this data? Yes, when restore looks at the backup tape it doesn't see the .snapshot/weekly.0 preamble so the backup to NetApp looks the same as if you hadn't specified a snapshot. As Steve pointed out some of the NDMP backup applications remember this preamble and need to be redirected on restores. > I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a > possible option. As our capacities grew snapshot create & delete times started to increase (pre 6.0 releases). With Data Ontap 6.0 we re-engineered our snapshot implementation and re-introduced "instantaneous" snapshot creation. Dump either via rsh, console or NDMP only ever backups from a snapshot either a named snapshot or one it creates (& manages) itself. If you are running a pre-6.0 release then I can believe you might see less impact on backups by using a named snapshot either from the snap sched set (we don't normally recommend you use these snapshots for dump because they get updated on the snap sched schedule and dump locks the snapshot its working on, e.g. the two schedules can conflict meaning you miss a valuable snap sched update) or created by the user using rsh snap create. In the past we've seen customers create a snpshot rather than let dump create it since they are going to perform multiple qtree or sub directory backups and just want one snapshot to be created. In Data Ontap 6.0 or beyond, there should be no noticable difference using dump on a named snapshot or when it needs to create its own snapshot. /etc/dumpdates is a database that dump uses to remember the time the last backup was done on the path used, so on an incremental dump we simply create a new snapshot, pick up the time of the last dump and then read out all files & directories in the new snapshot that have been modified since that timestamp. But maybe the time you are saving is actually on quiescing Clearcase and the VOB data and not on the snapshot creation. I wasn't clear. Cheers, Grant =========== grant(a)netapp.com ========== Grant Melvin === === Software Development Manager === === Data Availability & Management === |\ | __ ___ /\ __ __ === Network Appliance === | \ | |__ | /__\ |__| |__| === 475 East Java Drive === | \| |__ | / \ | | (R) === Sunnyvale === === California, 94089 === === Tel:(408)822-6761 =========== Network Appliance ========== Fax:(408)822-4578 -----Original Message----- From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:39 AM To: 'Traitel, Eyal'; 'E.J. Jantz'; toasters(a)mathworks.com; Clawson, Simon Subject: RE: snapshot backup That sounds like exactly what I meant. We currently backup / and everything below that. What I was hoping I could do was backup /.snapshot/weekly0 and then use this as my full backup. I user Veritas NetBackup to fire off the NDMP job on the filer, so I guess I would need to modify the backup path to /.snapshot/Weekly0? Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Traitel, Eyal [mailto:eyal@netapp.com] > Sent: Wednesday April 2001 16:29 > To: 'E.J. Jantz'; toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson > Subject: RE: snapshot backup > > > Our snapshots are to be more exact "copy on new write" as > opposed to "copy on old write", with the advantage of no > penalty at all in terms of performance of taking the > snapshot, and performance of filesystem after taking it > (think of "copy on old write" - filesystem needs to read old > block, write it in the backup location, then write the new > block in old place - that's 3 I/Os. For us it's only 1). > We do not have to go back to specific locations on the disk, > and that's a real advantage in terms of performance. > > In regards to full compared to snapshot - with NetApp, it's > probably always better to backup snapshots, as they are > point-in-time - when you've started your backup at 19:00, all > of it will be consistent to 19:00 sharp, unlike traditional > backup, which data changes while you backup... So - if you > get me right - you can even do full backup from a snapshot... > > On Legato - I think you can just mention .snapshot/hourly.0 > for example in your path of backup. If you use NDMP, you > anyway backup a snapshot, as the filer's dump creates one > automatically for you. > > Hope it somewhat helps, > Eyal. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer > CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA > > Network Appliance BV > Holland Office Center > Kruisweg 799b > 2132 NG, Hoofddorp > The Netherlands > Office: +31 23 567 9685 > Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 > Email: eyal(a)netapp.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: E.J. Jantz [mailto:ej_jantz@bswintl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:55 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com > Subject: Re: snapshot backup > > > just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that > mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full > backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture > just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? > > thanks... > > EJ Jantz, IST Dept. > BSW International > One West Third, Ste 100 > Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 > 918 582-8771 > ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com > 918 295-4166 > 918 587-3594 fax > > > >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM > >>> > Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore > from > this data? > > I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a > possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of > backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. > Of > course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but > this > would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > > Any ideas/suggestions/views? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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fibre channel hubs
by neil lehrer 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

has netapp qualified any of the vixel hubs for tape backup? the hubs are much cheaper than the vixel 8100 and i don't think the lesser performance will be an issue in my case - two filers. thanks

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RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp
by Maglinger, Paul 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

I reply to them. If they don't know what's going on, how can they fix it. Anyone filling it out should be just as quick to praise their performance as they are to condemn it. I have only put in one "bad" report having to do with response time. That prompted a phone call from them and they seemed truly concerned. All in all, I've been pleased with the service (except for not getting a leather jacket.... oops, there goes that inane banter again). -----Original Message----- From: Chris Thompson [mailto:cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 14:04 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp What do you do with the the e-mail that arrives from Quality.Manager(a)netapp.com after a problem is closed with NetApp, inviting you to fill in a "5 STARS Survey" form? I admit I throw them in the e-wastebin. It seems to me that providing only a method of returning these (probably only marginally meaningful) answers by e-mail is absolutely pessimal. If they really want to increase the response rate, surely NetApp should provide a method using forms at now.netapp.com? My vague recollection is that at one time a WWW-browser-based method was offered, but this doesn't seem to be the case now. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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How to "remove"
by Braunschweiger, Udo 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Please everybody: To be removed from the list toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> send a mail-message to majordomo(a)mathworks.com <mailto:majordomo@mathworks.com> with the only words in the message body: unsubscribe toasters your. <mailto:username@company.topleveldomain> username(a)company.topleveldomain Regards Udo -----Original Message----- From: Ferd Berfl [mailto:ferd_berfl@yahoo.com] Sent: Mittwoch, 25. April 2001 16:23 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: remove you were saying, about remind people how to remove themselves, Sushi Biker. -----Original Message----- From: owner-dl-toasters(a)netapp.com [mailto:owner-dl-toasters@netapp.com]On Behalf Of Jean-Marie Joris Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:09 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: remove remove -- Jean-Marie JORIS Unix Support - Texas Instruments France Email jm-joris(a)ti.com Phone 04 93 22 14 05

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remove
by Jean-Marie Joris 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

remove -- Jean-Marie JORIS Unix Support - Texas Instruments France Email jm-joris(a)ti.com Phone 04 93 22 14 05

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RE: snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

That sounds like exactly what I meant. We currently backup / and everything below that. What I was hoping I could do was backup /.snapshot/weekly0 and then use this as my full backup. I user Veritas NetBackup to fire off the NDMP job on the filer, so I guess I would need to modify the backup path to /.snapshot/Weekly0? Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Traitel, Eyal [mailto:eyal@netapp.com] > Sent: Wednesday April 2001 16:29 > To: 'E.J. Jantz'; toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson > Subject: RE: snapshot backup > > > Our snapshots are to be more exact "copy on new write" as > opposed to "copy on old write", with the advantage of no > penalty at all in terms of performance of taking the > snapshot, and performance of filesystem after taking it > (think of "copy on old write" - filesystem needs to read old > block, write it in the backup location, then write the new > block in old place - that's 3 I/Os. For us it's only 1). > We do not have to go back to specific locations on the disk, > and that's a real advantage in terms of performance. > > In regards to full compared to snapshot - with NetApp, it's > probably always better to backup snapshots, as they are > point-in-time - when you've started your backup at 19:00, all > of it will be consistent to 19:00 sharp, unlike traditional > backup, which data changes while you backup... So - if you > get me right - you can even do full backup from a snapshot... > > On Legato - I think you can just mention .snapshot/hourly.0 > for example in your path of backup. If you use NDMP, you > anyway backup a snapshot, as the filer's dump creates one > automatically for you. > > Hope it somewhat helps, > Eyal. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer > CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA > > Network Appliance BV > Holland Office Center > Kruisweg 799b > 2132 NG, Hoofddorp > The Netherlands > Office: +31 23 567 9685 > Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 > Email: eyal(a)netapp.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -----Original Message----- > From: E.J. Jantz [mailto:ej_jantz@bswintl.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:55 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com > Subject: Re: snapshot backup > > > just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that > mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full > backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture > just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? > > thanks... > > EJ Jantz, IST Dept. > BSW International > One West Third, Ste 100 > Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 > 918 582-8771 > ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com > 918 295-4166 > 918 587-3594 fax > > > >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM > >>> > Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore > from > this data? > > I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a > possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of > backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. > Of > course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but > this > would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > > Any ideas/suggestions/views? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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RE: snapshot backup
by Fox, Adam 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but I don't think what you want to do will work. I'm not sure how backing up a snapshot will speed up your backups. A snapshot is a point-in-time view of an entire volume. If you run our dump command either from the command line or via ndmp against the active volume (non-snapshot) ONTAP will create a snapshot for the duration of the dump. Snapshots are not strictly incremental changes, they are a view of the whole volume. So while you certainly can backup a snapshot, (in fact, that is strongly recommended) I'm not sure how it will speed things up. If you elaborate, I'll do my best to help out. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 5:32 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: snapshot backup > > > Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform > a restore from > this data? > > I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a > possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of > backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the > whole filer. Of > course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a > month, but this > would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > > Any ideas/suggestions/views? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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Re: snapshot backup
by E.J. Jantz 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

just a question: If the 'snapshots are "copy on writes' doesn't that mean that a backup of .snapshot is equal to and functions as a full backup? If not, can Legato using a NFS mount on a unix server capture just the info the .snapshot uses? If so, how? thanks... EJ Jantz, IST Dept. BSW International One West Third, Ste 100 Tulsa, OK 74103-3505 918 582-8771 ej_jantz(a)bswintl.com 918 295-4166 918 587-3594 fax >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 4/25/01 4:32:08 AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: snapshot backup
by Steve Kappel 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

>I use Veritas NetBackup to do an NDMP dump. I guess I can just backup the >path /.snapshot..? Yes. Restore using NetBackup "Alternate Path Restore". >-----Original Message----- >From: Rick Hulsey [mailto:RHULSEY@wnco.com] >Sent: Wednesday April 2001 13:20 >To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson >Subject: Re: snapshot backup > > >Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS >or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If >the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks >something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will >have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, >however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the >pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The >issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only >so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets >stored on your tapes. > >>>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> >Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from >this data? > >I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a >possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of >backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of >course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this >would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. > >Any ideas/suggestions/views? > >Simon > >Simon Clawson >HDS Team Systems Administrator >Mentor Graphics Uk >Rivergate >London Road >Newbury >Berkshire >RG14 2QB ><<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> > > __________________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel(a)veritas.com VERITAS Software steve(a)stevekappel.com (Personal)

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Archive Help
by Peter Gauthier 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hi Folks I need some help or information. I have just joined up and it was suggested that I could look at the archives at the following sites. http://teaparty.mathworks.com:1999/toasters/ http://teaparty.mathworks.com:1999/toasters/Search.html I'm unable to get to either site as the Netscape message reads. There was no response. Server could be down or is not responding. I have tried these site from the Company Office as well as through my home office ISP. Peter

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FW: How would you respond to this
by Network Appliance List 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Gawd. I always knew that EMC was lower than a snake's belly in a wagon wheel rut, but gee. I'd just educate the management types, addressing each point. And then ask if they want to do business with a company that uses overt fraud as a marketing tool. Then we could call my buddy Guido and have him pay the miscreants a visit. ("Only break the left knee, Guido!" We want them to hobble, not drag!") Brian Cooper BOkf Technical Services Tulsa, Oklahoma bcooper(a)mail.bokf.com Jerry, Tom: FYI -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

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Re: Repairing
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Hello, Wil: We can repair or replace most NetApp parts at very reasonable prices. Please let me know what defective parts you have and we will be happy to send you a quote. Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com In a message dated 4/24/01 9:14:54 PM Central Daylight Time, wilng(a)asl.com.hk writes: > Dear all, > > Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item > with my > spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and > the > charge? > > Wil

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RE: snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

I use Veritas NetBackup to do an NDMP dump. I guess I can just backup the path /.snapshot..? -----Original Message----- From: Rick Hulsey [mailto:RHULSEY@wnco.com] Sent: Wednesday April 2001 13:20 To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; simon_clawson Subject: Re: snapshot backup Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets stored on your tapes. >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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Re: snapshot backup
by Rick Hulsey 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Yes, but be careful if you back this up by mounting the volume and using NFS or CIFS instead of using dump on the filer or some other backup client. If the pathnames to the files that you are backing up once mounted looks something like "/dir/.snapshot/hourly.0/otherdir/filenames" then you will have some additional work to do if you need to restore those files. If, however, you mount or connect to the .snapshot/hourly.0 directory then the pathnames to your file look something like "/dir/otherdir/filenames". The issue is that anything on a filer below .snapshot is going to be read only so you want to make sure that .snapshot is not in the pathname that gets stored on your tapes. >>> "Clawson, Simon" <simon_clawson(a)mentorg.com> 04/25/01 04:32AM >>> Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Collins, Brian 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Um.... for what it is worth, I just ran "vol status -r" on an F85 - looks like RAID4 to me! f85-rtp> vol status -r Volume vol0 (root) RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- parity 5a.5 5a 0 5 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 5a.4 5a 0 4 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 Spare disks for zoned checksum volumes only RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- spare 5a.3 5a 0 3 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.2 5a 0 2 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.1 5a 0 1 0 34732/71132960 spare 5a.0 5a 0 0 0 34732/71132960 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:15 PM > To: 'Mike Sphar'; 'Barry Lustig'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: How would you respond to this > > > Finally, does the F85 really use RAID 0? If so, it's true > that it's not as > failure proof, but then if the model was designed for RAID 0, > then it's > simply not targeted at the same market as a redundant RAID unit. If > capacity and performance are far more important to you then > redundancy, then > RAID 0 is the way to go. (Though as I said, I'd be surprised > if it really > was RAID 0. If it's not, then a blatant lie like that would > immediately > turn me off to any vendor.) > --- > > Since nobody else has responded..I'll step in. > > The F85 enjoys the FULL and complete feature set of WAFL and > its engineering around RAID4 to do its work quickly, quietly, > and with outstanding performance compared to any other > filesystem or features the competition can throw at us. >

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snapshot backup
by Clawson, Simon 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Is it possible to backup just the .snapshot and then perform a restore from this data? I am looking for ways to speed up the backups and this seems to be a possible option. It was suggested to me by a colleague as a method of backing up Clearcase VOBS, but would it be viable for the whole filer. Of course I would need to run a full backup at tleast once a month, but this would help me speed up most of my weekly runs. Any ideas/suggestions/views? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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NDMP and network settings
by Scott Mikusko 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

Peoples, I recently set up our new NDMP backup system (new ADIC Scalar-1000 tape library, with 2 F760s acting as NDMP hosts with 4 drives attached to each from the unit). Initially I was having trouble getting other filers to backup via the network to the remote drives on the 2 hosts. I was running all my filers on a private 100Mbs Full-Duplex network (utilising the filers' e0 interfaces or quad cards). Funny thing was, I keep seeing really slow and spotty xfer rates and tape writes: small bursts of 65Kb/s then a few seconds of nothing. When I tried backups via dump to local drives, it was 4-6Mb/s, as expected). So, what was causing the painfully slow performance?? On a whim, knowing I had seen something like this before a long time ago with Legato's client pak s/w, I reset the NDMP hosts' ether interfaces to 100Mbs HALF-duplex. As soon as that duplex setting kicked in, my network xfer rates and tape write shot up to the expected 4-6Mb/s rates. Now, I understand that duplex settings can affect network performance, and that in backups I'm essentially streaming data in one direction (which would make half-duplex a sensible option), but as for WHY I needed to set to half-duplex is a mystery. I would think being Full-duplex would be just as well. This duplex issue is, as far as I could tell reading over Netapp and Veritas docs, not address explicity when talking about 3-way backups. While I'm glad I seem to have fixed the problem, the fact that it was a problem puzzles me. So for anyone out there doing 3-way backups or dumps to remote tape drives, had you seen this before? Is anyone running NDMP and remote drives but not using half-duplex network settings? Just curious. -Scott Mikusko

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RE: Repairing
by Mohler, Jeff 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

If you are in Hong Kong (good bet here) you can call 800-8008-0800. Please call any of the following offices for support at any time. Europe: 00-800-44-638277 Europe: 31-23-567-9605 Asia: 800-8008-0800 Asia: 65-3170317 Malaysia: 1-800-804289 Taiwan: 0080-14-8246 India: 65 317-0317 Indonesia: 011-803-015-200-0703 You can also open a case via NOW (now.netapp.com) and you will get immediate reponse for assistance, or you can open your own RMA tickets to replace faulty hardware without having to use the phone at all. -----Original Message----- From: Wil Ng [mailto:wilng@asl.com.hk] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:17 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Repairing Dear all, Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item with my spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and the charge? Wil

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RE: Repairing
by Mohler, Jeff 25 Apr '01

25 Apr '01

You will have to consult with the tech support representatives on your options, and depending on your service agreements many should be available to you. -----Original Message----- From: Wil Ng [mailto:wilng@asl.com.hk] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:19 PM To: Mohler, Jeff; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Repairing Hi Mohler, Thanks for your information! However what if the warranty has expired? Wil "Mohler, Jeff" wrote: > If you are in Hong Kong (good bet here) you can call 800-8008-0800. > > Please call any of the following offices for support at any time. > > Europe: 00-800-44-638277 > Europe: 31-23-567-9605 > Asia: 800-8008-0800 > Asia: 65-3170317 > Malaysia: 1-800-804289 > Taiwan: 0080-14-8246 > India: 65 317-0317 > Indonesia: 011-803-015-200-0703 > > You can also open a case via NOW (now.netapp.com) and you will get immediate reponse for assistance, or you can open your own RMA tickets to replace faulty hardware without having to use the phone at all. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wil Ng [mailto:wilng@asl.com.hk] > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:17 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Repairing > > Dear all, > > Its there any repairing service from NetApp. I replace my defective item with my > spare parts. It there any formal channel to repair the defective one? and the > charge? > > Wil

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