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13515 discussions

Any experience...
by Robert Mance 01 May '01

01 May '01

with a company called Winchester Systems? They're advertising the 'World's Fastest RAID Disk Array' at a very reasonable price. I'm getting pressure from the CTO to get these things in here for eval. We currently have an F840 that I'm extremely happy with. I don't necessarily want to compare the two ... since the F840 is a NAS and Winchester makes locally attached scsi stuff. Just interested any any experience with the company and/or their product. Cheers, Robert -- Robert Mance robert(a)cinesite.com Manager of Technical Operations Cinesite Digital Studios 323-468-5711 (Work) 1017 N Las Palmas Ave., Suite 300 323-468-2180 (FAX) Hollywood, CA. 90038 213-391-7527 (Pager)

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Backup solutions for NDMP with F740's
by Eric Hester 01 May '01

01 May '01

We have been using an ADIC Scalar 218 for some time with our F740 cluster with fairly good results until recently. Our Netapps provide the storage for our Web and Mail clusters. We have experienced pretty serious growth and are seeing some significant slow downs in backup turnaround time. We have up until this point also just been backing up the data over NFS mounts to our NetBackup server. Being that most of the data comes from the mail server side and we use maildir, it is not a huge amount of data but is a huge number of smaller files. I'm not very confident that NDMP would completely correct the problem, but it seems that removing the network/nfs overhead couldn't hurt. I think I have made the decision to go with the ADIC Scalar 1000 with 2 drives dedicated to the Netapps (1 to each in the cluster) with NDMP and 4 more drives dedicated to the backup server for other systems. 2 questions: 1) What are some impressions on NDMP as a performance gain for backups? Right now the network does not seem to bottleneck the process as we have dedicated 100m links from the servers to a separate NFS/backup network, and 4 channel etherchannel from each netapp to that same network. From MRTG graphs this network is mostly idle (10-20m max) even during backups. I don't appear to be able to keep the DLT's saturated (in other words the activity light doesn't stay on the whole time, so it is not streaming non stop) during backups, and I don't know if this is NFS overhead, or there is another problem. Is NDMP more capable of keeping a DLT fully saturated and therefore more efficient, or do I still need to look at this as a Netbackup issue? 2) A little OT but - Does anyone have any good experience with this particular library (ADIC Scalar 1000)? I loved our smaller Scalar.. but have more long term experience with StorageTek. My salesperson has done a good job convincing me of the advantages of this box, and I am pretty much sold. Just curious if anyone else has any horror stories or glowing recommendations. Eric Hester Director of Systems Engineering NuVox Communications eric(a)nuvox.net

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RE: F85
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 01 May '01

01 May '01

The F85 and the IP4700 are NOT in the same class of equipment. F85 is for a small office, IP4700 is for a decent sized department (couple hundred users). If the F85 is what you need, the IP4700 is a total overkill. If the IP4700 is in the class you need, you should be looking at an F740 or F760 cluster, not an F85. MD -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:44 PM To: Toasters Subject: F85 Has anybody had any experience with the F85? I'm most interested in the hardware. As a continuation of my last message, EMC is pushing hard with an IP4700 against an F85. They've been touting the reliability of their box and that it has no single point of failure (2 processors, etc). I'd like to know if anyone on the list has deployed the F85 and can give a reference on them. Also, does anyone know what type of failover the IP4700 is actually providing between their 2 storage processors. It doesn't look at first glance that the surviving processor takes over the MAC address of the dead processor. It just starts arping for the IP address of its partner. barry

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RE: ssh trusts?
by Traitel, Eyal 01 May '01

01 May '01

What do you mean by trust ? You can use QuickSetup software to setup a 6.1 and up filer into a Win2K domain in a safe way. Try: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/download/tools/qsetup/ Eyal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- eTraitel - I'm the new eBuzzword around !!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eyal Traitel - Filer Escalation Engineer CNA, MCSE, CSA, LCA, NetApp CA Network Appliance BV Holland Office Center Kruisweg 799b 2132 NG, Hoofddorp The Netherlands Office: +31 23 567 9685 Cellular: +31 6 5497 2568 Email: eyal(a)netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get answers NOW! - NetApp On the Web - http://now.netapp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Nick's Lists [mailto:mrlist@noid.org] Sent: Tue, May 01, 2001 2:07 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: ssh trusts? Is there a way to setup a trust via ssh from a host to a filer running secure admin? TIA - N

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RE: F85
by Whitfield, Charlie 01 May '01

01 May '01

While I don't disagree with Tom, he doesn't mention that F85 can do many of the tricks that currently reside in the wish lists of others. For example: SnapRestore: near-instant full volume restore (the trad option is lengthy tape restore) without affecting other volumes on the same filer. No point having snaps if you can't get the data back. SnapMirror: asynch mirroring over any distance. This is done volume-volume so you can mirror a bunch of geo-dispersed F85s to something larger at HQ. Etc, etc, etc. The key to F85 is that, with the main exception of Cluster Failover, it can perform just about all the tricks of it's larger data centre siblings. I believe that NetApp are unique in offering this downward scalability (i.e. that a smaller solution shouldn't be penalised in the functionality department). Naturally, if your environment grows, you don't have to re-engineer your processes, just plug in a bigger filer. If you want head-redundancy, think F740C which, like the IP4700, won't fit under your desk. :-) Cheers, CAW Charlie Whitfield NetApp UK FBI voice: +44 20 8756 6762 mobile: +44 7718 160954 email: caw(a)netapp.com Repel the bozo invasion! -----Original Message----- From: Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau [mailto:MadDog@fool.com] Sent: 30 April 2001 19:45 To: 'Barry Lustig'; Toasters Subject: RE: F85 The F85 and the IP4700 are NOT in the same class of equipment. F85 is for a small office, IP4700 is for a decent sized department (couple hundred users). If the F85 is what you need, the IP4700 is a total overkill. If the IP4700 is in the class you need, you should be looking at an F740 or F760 cluster, not an F85. MD -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:44 PM To: Toasters Subject: F85 Has anybody had any experience with the F85? I'm most interested in the hardware. As a continuation of my last message, EMC is pushing hard with an IP4700 against an F85. They've been touting the reliability of their box and that it has no single point of failure (2 processors, etc). I'd like to know if anyone on the list has deployed the F85 and can give a reference on them. Also, does anyone know what type of failover the IP4700 is actually providing between their 2 storage processors. It doesn't look at first glance that the surviving processor takes over the MAC address of the dead processor. It just starts arping for the IP address of its partner. barry

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ssh trusts?
by Nick's Lists 01 May '01

01 May '01

Is there a way to setup a trust via ssh from a host to a filer running secure admin? TIA - N

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RE: F85 - EMC IP4700
by Berke_Mitch＠emc.com 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Has anybody had any experience with the F85? I'm most interested in the hardware. As a continuation of my last message, EMC is pushing hard with an IP4700 against an F85. They've been touting the reliability of their box and that it has no single point of failure (2 processors, etc). .... Also, does anyone know what type of failover the IP4700 is actually providing between their 2 storage processors. ----------There is a direct/point to point Fibre channel link between the service processors. These service processors are in an active/active failover configuration. It doesn't look at first glance that the surviving processor takes over the MAC address of the dead processor. It just starts arping for the IP address of its partner. ----------If there is a network connectivity failure of any kind, caused by a dead switch port, bad or loose cable, bad NIC etc., the surviving Ethernet interface on the IP4700 issues an ARP to the LAN switch to update its ARP table so all traffic destined for the dead MAC address is redirected to MAC address of that surviving Ethernet interface. At this point the remaining LAN interface sends & receives LAN traffic on behalf of the failed NIC, but the data serving is still executed by the Service Processor that is still alive behind the failed NIC. We can accomplish this by sending the data over the previously mentioned Fibre channel link that resides between the 2 service processors. After the IO request is processed, it is sent back across the FC link & out the surviving LAN interface. If you need any further explanation I can be reached @ 972.892.2098 Mitch Berke Senior Systems Engineer EMC² The Enterprise Storage Company 14785 Preston Rd. #250 Dallas, TX 75240 Office - 972.892.7700 Ext. 2098 berke_mitch(a)emc.com

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RE: Backup Software
by Berry, Grant 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Yes, when using Netapp DUMP and RESTORE, via telnet/console or rsh, all CIFS/NT attributes are maintained. Grant Berry Network Appliance SE Toronto, Ontario, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Rainchik, Aleksandr (MED, Non GE) [mailto:Aleksandr.Rainchik@med.ge.com] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:50 PM To: 'Benn, Paul' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Backup Software What about simple dump/restore trough rsh? Will it preserve all CIFS/NT attributes? -----Original Message----- From: Benn, Paul [mailto:paul.benn@netapp.com] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 1:01 PM To: 'lee kessinger'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Backup Software If the data on the filer has NTFS ACLs, you'll need to backup over CIFS or a use a package that supports NDMP. If you back up over NFS, you'll loose any NTFS ACLs and as well as any DOS file attributes. If you backup over CIFS, you'll not only retain the ACLs and the DOS bits, you'll retain the UNIX file permissions as well. Plus Data ONTAP keeps an archive bit (DOS) on UNIX files so that you can do "incremental" backups of UNIX data. Regards, Paul Benn Network Appliance -----Original Message----- From: lee kessinger [mailto:leek@uptime.net] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:15 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Backup Software Hello: Any suggestions on backup software involving an F85, 4 LINUX servers, and a 2 drive tape library with 15 slots? Software must be inexpensive (Ok cheap), backup window large enough to allow backing the F85 up over the wire. Thanks, Lee Kessinger

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RE: Backup Software
by Rainchik, Aleksandr (MED, Non GE) 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

What about simple dump/restore trough rsh? Will it preserve all CIFS/NT attributes? -----Original Message----- From: Benn, Paul [mailto:paul.benn@netapp.com] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 1:01 PM To: 'lee kessinger'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Backup Software If the data on the filer has NTFS ACLs, you'll need to backup over CIFS or a use a package that supports NDMP. If you back up over NFS, you'll loose any NTFS ACLs and as well as any DOS file attributes. If you backup over CIFS, you'll not only retain the ACLs and the DOS bits, you'll retain the UNIX file permissions as well. Plus Data ONTAP keeps an archive bit (DOS) on UNIX files so that you can do "incremental" backups of UNIX data. Regards, Paul Benn Network Appliance -----Original Message----- From: lee kessinger [mailto:leek@uptime.net] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:15 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Backup Software Hello: Any suggestions on backup software involving an F85, 4 LINUX servers, and a 2 drive tape library with 15 slots? Software must be inexpensive (Ok cheap), backup window large enough to allow backing the F85 up over the wire. Thanks, Lee Kessinger

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F85
by Barry Lustig 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

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RE: ndmp restore process
by Clawson, Simon 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

I seem to remember it reading all the way to the end of the tape Neil, but I may be wrong. Veritas Netbackup seems to do this too. Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: neil lehrer [mailto:nlehrer@ibb.gov] > Sent: Friday April 2001 22:09 > To: toasters > Cc: John Ederma; Curt Huyser > Subject: ndmp restore process > > > hi, > > we got legato to do a backup and now we are trying a restore. > i deleted a > directory from the filer and selected it for restore. > > we are ontap 5.36r2, so no direct access restore. > > watching the filer from an nt machine, we immediately saw the > file names come > back, with 0 bytes and no attributes. much later the file > sizes came back and > the attributes, but legato keeps reading the tape and every > 5 minutes we see > the "we have read so many bytes" messages. > > i would think once the files are back the restore would > complete, will it go to > the end of the tape? > > > -- >

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Re: How would you respond to this -Reply
by Timothy Cook 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Maybe I'm missing out on the really important aspect of netapps??? Other than a jacket I got at Admin training I've never received my new clothing line from Netapp! Is this an optional part of the Support Agreement, or should I start complaining that I'm not receiving the level of support from Netapp that I should be! For the benefit of you netapp guys who monitor this board, I wear an Extra Large. Of course, in Netapps defense, I've never received any EMC shirts either. (p.s. don't bother with the boxer shorts, I won't wear them) >>> Chris Lamb <skeezics(a)measurecast.com> 04/19/01 07:00pm >>> My story about EMC is rather different, I guess. Some local EMC reps scheduled a visit with my boss and came to visit us a while back. I wore not one but _two_ NetApp shirts that day - the very cool engineering shirt (black pre-F630 shirt with Mothra on the back) and the snazzy denim Land's End shirt with the embroidered logo on it. The night before I printed a copy of the recent INPUT survey, highlighting the part where I'm quoted (anonymously), and left it on my boss's chair. He brought it to the meeting. They arrived. I smiled and shook hands and did the business card thing. We sat down at the conference table. They asked their questions, and I politely answered them. It went something like this: "What about reliability?" they asked. "I've been running NetApps since 1995, and to the best of my recollection I have never once lost data due to hardware or software failure," I replied. "Yes, but what about uptime?" they inquired. "alexandria> uptime 3:32pm up 187 days, 14:10 1162740653 NFS ops, 129052586 CIFS ops, 0 HTTP ops colossus> uptime 3:32pm up 171 days, 8:48 1692312427 NFS ops, 0 CIFS ops, 0 HTTP ops", was my reply. "Expandability?" they suggested. "I have 21 free slots for more disks - I bought the box with extra shelves and a 2nd controller so that I could grow it on-line without any need for downtime. I can grow our box to > 1TB without even thinking hard." "Performance!" they pleaded. "My Oracle DBA is happy, and says he can't see a difference between the 760 and a locally-attached dual-loop A5200. Besides, with a head-swap we can trade up to the 800-series, or cluster, or trade-up and then cluster, and I've got all the slots I need to add extra Gigabit cards..." "Yes, but our 'phone home' support feature and customer service are second to none!" they intoned. "Actually," I said, "your story about the hardware tech showing up on a Saturday with a replacement disk for a demo machine reminds me of a similar incident... one day a box arrived unexpectedly from Netapp with a replacement drive in it, which puzzled us because we hadn't reported a failure. But sure enough, we walked into the server room and one of the disk canisters had a red light on. Five minutes later we swapped it out and that was that. Sure a lot cheaper than sending a field circus guy out to do a job that any basic systems operator can do." (Ouch, that stung a bit, but hey, I _like_ playing with the hardware, and if I have one complaint about the reliability of my filers it's that after I bolt it into the rack and plug it in, I don't get to fool around with it much. That's a blessing, of course. :-) "And as for service, a funny thing happened in the middle of the night a few months back, when I was innocently rearranging some power cords to balance the load on a split-phase UPS, oblivious to the fact that the 'autosupport' emails were being sent out. Imagine my surprise when an email arrived 20 minutes later from the Netherlands, asking if I needed to have a replacement power supply shipped..." They got the point. Clearly, they weren't going to make a sale that day. :-) But we listened to their presentation, and had a pleasant enough chat, and that was that. I had done my homework about their product line, too, and I think they knew it. They didn't try to BS me, and they didn't try to badmouth Netapp. So I can't comment on whether or not this is typical behavior from EMC reps, but my experience wasn't at all negative. Mostly, though, it's the shirts. If my vendors didn't clothe me I'd have nothing to wear! :-) -- Chris (still waiting for NetApp boxer shorts) -- Chris Lamb, Unix Guy MeasureCast, Inc. 503-241-1469 x247 <skeezics(a)measurecast.com>

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alternate shelves/disks for F330?
by Bill Bradford 30 Apr '01

30 Apr '01

Looks like 2 and 4G storageworks cannisters are going to run at least $100 each, and heck, I only paid $150 for the F330.. 8-( I know its unsupported as hell, but since this is standard SE narrow SCSI, would it work if I just slapped a Sun disk multipack on the filer? I'm just trying to get this up and working at home, as cheaply as possible... Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

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RE: Backup Software
by Benn, Paul 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

If the data on the filer has NTFS ACLs, you'll need to backup over CIFS or a use a package that supports NDMP. If you back up over NFS, you'll loose any NTFS ACLs and as well as any DOS file attributes. If you backup over CIFS, you'll not only retain the ACLs and the DOS bits, you'll retain the UNIX file permissions as well. Plus Data ONTAP keeps an archive bit (DOS) on UNIX files so that you can do "incremental" backups of UNIX data. Regards, Paul Benn Network Appliance -----Original Message----- From: lee kessinger [mailto:leek@uptime.net] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:15 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Backup Software Hello: Any suggestions on backup software involving an F85, 4 LINUX servers, and a 2 drive tape library with 15 slots? Software must be inexpensive (Ok cheap), backup window large enough to allow backing the F85 up over the wire. Thanks, Lee Kessinger

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More case stuff
by Jan Chrillesen 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Reading through the last couple of weeks posts about the case surveys and how much NetApp appreciates feedback I realised that there's a few things about the case handling that could use some improvement. The "Receive email notification on status change" feature is nice, but being a regular user of Cisco's CCO I miss the following features: * Being able to add adresses to CC on case updates * When I get a mail about the an update, it's just a link to the case. It would be great if the mail included the text that was added to the case. Some way to force a core dump (halt -d) without opening a new case. I've tried stuff like (halt -d forced-dump-for-case-123456), but new cases is opened anyway. A "magic" string to pass to -d would be fine. Sometimes I turn off autosupport before dumping a core, but that's also a bit annoying. Finally, why can't I close a case? Sometimes engineers seems to forget about cases and they stay open forever, even after I ask the engineer to close the case. I know I can close a case, when the problem is considered to be solved, but with a forgotten case this is not possible. 179738 is such a case, in case someone within NetApp would bother closing it. /jan

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Backup Software
by lee kessinger 29 Apr '01

29 Apr '01

Hello: Any suggestions on backup software involving an F85, 4 LINUX servers, and a 2 drive tape library with 15 slots? Software must be inexpensive (Ok cheap), backup window large enough to allow backing the F85 up over the wire. Thanks, Lee Kessinger

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RE: Netcache rsh admin access
by Eurich, Bruno 28 Apr '01

28 Apr '01

You need to use user 'root' for admin access. So for example, "rsh netcache -l root:password df". It's a filer-thing ;-) Cheers, -- Bruno > -----Original Message----- > From: parker(a)redback.com [mailto:parker@redback.com] > Sent: 27 April 2001 18:41 > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Netcache rsh admin access > > > Hi, > > We have a C720s Netcache box which I'm trying to set up for a demo. As > demo equipment, we don't have full access to now.netapp.com, > so I've got > no docs available... > > I've got everything working fine EXCEPT I can't get rsh administrative > access working. > > I have config.admin.console.enable turned on, and I have put the host > (and have tried the entire network as well) I want to rsh from into > config.admin.trusted_hosts. I've also added the host I want > to rsh from > into config.system.hosts. I have set up usernames for the users coming > in from the admin host in config.auth.users, and those users > are in the > NetCache group. config.admin.access_control_type is currently set to > 'anywhere' as I test this. > > Each & every rsh attempt is met with (on the netcache console): > > Permission denied to rsh request from xxx at yyy > > (xxx and yyy of course being the usernames & hosts I'm trying > to come in > as) > > Is there the equivalent of a hosts.equiv file on the netcache? Some > other trick? > > Oh, we're running 5.0D2, with firmware 2.3_a2. > > Thanks! > > Ross > -- > Ross Parker | > | "Lisp has all the visual appeal of > Diagnostic Engineer | oatmeal with fingernail clippings > Redback Networks Inc. | mixed in" - Larry Wall > parker(a)redback.com | >

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NetApp at home - licenses?
by Bill Bradford 28 Apr '01

28 Apr '01

I'll soon be the proud owner of a F330 at home, but I've gotta scrounge up some 2 or 4G drives for this StorageWorks shelf, and then the big problem - it comes with no licenses. Am I correct in assuming that without an installed NFS license, I cant export anything to anywhere? Or, can I only export stuff to the admin host? I know NetApp isnt about to give out any kind of "Hobbyist" licenses any time soon.. but I used F220s back in '97-98, and jumped at the chance to pick this unit up; I hope it ends up being more than a doorstop. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Also looking for 2 or 4G Storageworks disk cannisters for a BA350 shelf (narrow SE scsi). Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

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RE: Netcache rsh admin access
by Rousseau, Deborah 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

The hosts.equiv file is case sensitive to the case of the user name. should read: hostname username The hostname needs to be resolvable, so host file entry helps. The rsh command could be improved with the -l username perameter. rsh filername -l username command Try those. Deborah Rousseau -----Original Message----- From: parker(a)redback.com To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: 4/27/01 10:41 AM Subject: Netcache rsh admin access Hi, We have a C720s Netcache box which I'm trying to set up for a demo. As demo equipment, we don't have full access to now.netapp.com, so I've got no docs available... I've got everything working fine EXCEPT I can't get rsh administrative access working. I have config.admin.console.enable turned on, and I have put the host (and have tried the entire network as well) I want to rsh from into config.admin.trusted_hosts. I've also added the host I want to rsh from into config.system.hosts. I have set up usernames for the users coming in from the admin host in config.auth.users, and those users are in the NetCache group. config.admin.access_control_type is currently set to 'anywhere' as I test this. Each & every rsh attempt is met with (on the netcache console): Permission denied to rsh request from xxx at yyy (xxx and yyy of course being the usernames & hosts I'm trying to come in as) Is there the equivalent of a hosts.equiv file on the netcache? Some other trick? Oh, we're running 5.0D2, with firmware 2.3_a2. Thanks! Ross -- Ross Parker | | "Lisp has all the visual appeal of Diagnostic Engineer | oatmeal with fingernail clippings Redback Networks Inc. | mixed in" - Larry Wall parker(a)redback.com |

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Netcache rsh admin access
by parker＠redback.com 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

Hi, We have a C720s Netcache box which I'm trying to set up for a demo. As demo equipment, we don't have full access to now.netapp.com, so I've got no docs available... I've got everything working fine EXCEPT I can't get rsh administrative access working. I have config.admin.console.enable turned on, and I have put the host (and have tried the entire network as well) I want to rsh from into config.admin.trusted_hosts. I've also added the host I want to rsh from into config.system.hosts. I have set up usernames for the users coming in from the admin host in config.auth.users, and those users are in the NetCache group. config.admin.access_control_type is currently set to 'anywhere' as I test this. Each & every rsh attempt is met with (on the netcache console): Permission denied to rsh request from xxx at yyy (xxx and yyy of course being the usernames & hosts I'm trying to come in as) Is there the equivalent of a hosts.equiv file on the netcache? Some other trick? Oh, we're running 5.0D2, with firmware 2.3_a2. Thanks! Ross -- Ross Parker | | "Lisp has all the visual appeal of Diagnostic Engineer | oatmeal with fingernail clippings Redback Networks Inc. | mixed in" - Larry Wall parker(a)redback.com |

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RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page
by Collins, Brian 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

Has anyone give thought to letting users view the autosupport data we have on their filers ala the access that the TSEs have? bc > -----Original Message----- > From: La Londe, Renee [mailto:Renee.LaLonde@netapp.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:04 PM > To: 'tmerrill(a)mathworks.com<tmerrill(a)mathworks.com>' > Cc: Braden, Jesse; dl-now; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page > > > > Hi Todd, > > Thanks for sharing your candid thoughts on the recent changes > to the NOW site. > > Making the Service and Support home page one of the > customizable options is an awesome idea and we will put it on > the roadmap and let you know when we have it in place. > > We created the new Service and Support home page because > there are other sections on NOW (such as Reseller Corner, > etc) and some customers have complained that these sections > were taking away valuable real-estate from the Service and > Support tools on NOW. So we created the new (one-stop-shop) > page that is 100% totally dedicated to Service and Support. > This was done to make your life easier on the NOW site-- so > your feedback is key to making sure we get it right. We will > definitely make this new home page one of the customizable > options and continue to minimize the marketing and use of > frames,etc on this page. > > FYI, within Case Status Tool > [http://now.netapp.com/Self-Service/FORMS/frmSearch.asp?ObjTyp e=NA_WEB_PPAGE_CASE] , you can check the status > of a Netapp case(s) by > > Entering the following: > > Netapp serial number > Netapp case number > > OR > > Selecting the following: > > Last 7 days by location (ALL for your location) > Last 7 days by Company (ALL for your company) > Last 30 days by location (ALL for your location) > Last 30 days by Company (ALL for your company) > Open cases by location > Open cases by company > All by location > All by company > Just my cases (just the ones you have submitted) > > > > Makes me think that our UI may not be that clear if you > weren't aware of these options... If you have any feedback > on how we can make it better let me know-- but we will > definitely look into it. > > Thanks again, > > Renee > > Renee La Londe > Director, E-service Customer Facing Web Programs > Network Appliance, Inc. > 495 E. Java > Sunnyvale CA 94089 > Get Answers on NOW (Netapp on the Web)! > http://now.netapp.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:53 AM > To: Sullivan, Justin > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp > > > On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Sullivan, Justin wrote: > > > We would certainly like to have more surveys returned - we > should like to see EVERY survey returned. > > I have to admit, I used to fill these out, thinking NetApp was > using some random sampling of cases in order to generate > their metrics. > But, it became quickly apparent that *every* call seems to generate a > survey. > > Now I just delete them, unless the service was extremely good > or extremely bad. More often than not, it's just "okay." > Filling out a > survey saying "you guys did a middle-of-the-road job" is like > watching a > newscast that report on a plane on a routine flight that > landed successfully > at the airport. <yawn> > > > Might I suggest the suvey's include at least a descriptive ...ah > ... description of the case? The last one I got said "Failure Error > Message." And, which of the half-dozen cases I've entered in the past > few weeks was that? Looking up the details in NOW revealed > the subject > there says "RBCLTO:Cluster Notification from filername > (REBOOT (CLUSTER > TAKEOVER))." Oh, yeah, now I remember. > > And, while I'm at it, the NOW pages have become way more > cluttered, and slower, than they used to be. There are loads of > icons/images "advertising" features of NetApps and NOW that are just > getting in the way. It took me 2-3 minutes after logging > into NOW just > now to figure out where TF I could look back at my previous cases. It > was buried under "Services and Support." Isn't that what NOW *is*? > Didn't that used to be the "main" NOW page? And, why can't I > look up a > case solely by case number? I have to remember which filer it was > associated with, too? Well, give me all the cases in the last month, > then... > > Can the personal customization of NOW include an option "Expert > mode - avoid icons and marketing crap" or allow me to set my > "home" NOW > page to http://now.netapp.com/Self-Service/Forms/SupportHome.asp > instead? Sure, I could bookmark it, but when I'm in the machine room > and need to grab a random machine and login not under my own > account... > > Uh-oh. Looks like somebody is cranky this morning. Somebody > hasn't had their juice box yet. > > Until next time... > > The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 > 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX > tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: How would you respond to this
by Riley, Mike 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

Hopefully not adding too much fuel to the fire but we just went head-to-head with an IP4700 at a customer site with an F85. The customer ran their tests - we didn't furnish them with any - and the F85 out-performed the IP4700 on a consistent basis. We are asking the customer if we can publish their report. For the record, EMC does make sound products and has been a very successful company with great service. The key footnote, that I believe was mentioned somewhere in this mail chain, is EMC has ventured into a new market where the filesystem and OS "kernel" are integrally interwoven into the storage fabric. This is an entirely different paradigm for direct-attached vendors. Attaching disk to an NT or Unix platform and then expecting the filesystems that live in those operating systems to "do the right thing" is quite a different proposition when compared to NAS. To make a true NAS appliance, it's not as simple as stripping down an open-source OS and cobling it together with a re-cycled filesystem. True, everyone has to start somewhere - even Network Appliance had to start with publicly available device drivers, IP stacks, etc. - but to introduce a robust, functional feature set without compromising customer expectations on ease of use or performance requires knowledge and! vision based on experience. There is no better teacher than experience and Network Appliance has had 9 years to figure this stuff out and we're still working hard to improve, integrate new technology and even break new technological ground (e.g. DAFS). >From that standpoint, (and, yes, I have my NetApp hat firmly on now), claims from EMC that they can do everything NetApp can do (and the stuff that they can't do will ship in <fill in month here>), have to be taken with a huge block/pillar of salt, particularly if you have ever had the opportunity to compare the products side-by-side. Outside of the critical product differences today, the assumption moving forward is that somehow NetApp will stand still and that simply isn't the case; can't be the case. EMC is very new to this game, and as big as they are, if you look at most of their press releases they mention that they are trying to "catch Network Appliance" - their words, not ours. We believe, based on customer input such as yours, that we will continue to lead this market from both a technology and sales perspective. -----Original Message----- From: Network Appliance List [mailto:nalist@mail.bokf.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 5:43 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Cc: Howland , Jerry; Hammack, Tom Subject: FW: How would you respond to this Gawd. I always knew that EMC was lower than a snake's belly in a wagon wheel rut, but gee. I'd just educate the management types, addressing each point. And then ask if they want to do business with a company that uses overt fraud as a marketing tool. Then we could call my buddy Guido and have him pay the miscreants a visit. ("Only break the left knee, Guido!" We want them to hobble, not drag!") Brian Cooper BOkf Technical Services Tulsa, Oklahoma bcooper(a)mail.bokf.com Jerry, Tom: FYI -----Original Message----- From: Barry Lustig [mailto:barry@lustig.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:41 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: How would you respond to this This is an excerpt of an email that was sent to the management of a company that I'm working with. They had spec'ed F85's for a fairly low performance 10-20Mbits/sec. environment. The main requirement is reliability and ease of use. How does one respond to blatant misrepresentation of a competitors product? barry A few highlights of the comparison: - The F85 is a stripped down, single CPU, low end device with multiple points of failure and a very poor data protection. NetApps service is rated very low by industry experts and they offer next day shipment of parts that the user must install themselves. - The IP4700 is fully redundant, multi-CPU, mid-range device with no single point of failure and hardware based RAID 5 data protection. EMC's world class customer service center has ranked #1 for 6 consecutive years by Gartner Group. Standard 2 year warranty guarantees 4 hours ON SITE w/Parts service by EMC technicians. Plus, our 'call home' proactive maintenance system monitors trends within the system and reports them automatically to our customer service center. Often, EMC technicians will repair a system BEFORE the component actually fails. The 4700 will be configured with 8 drives usable, plus 1 drive for RAID 5 parity and 1 drive for hot swap redundancy. It is scalable all the way to 7000GB (7TB) vs. only 648GB for the F85. The 4700 as configured above is 8RU. In general, the F85 does not scale sufficiently for growth, has poor customer service behind it, has no redundancy, has multiple points of failure, and utilizes a sub-par RAID 0 data protection scheme.

1 0

File path error
by Maglinger, Paul 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

We have a NetApps 740 running 5.3.7R2. We run NT on our workstations. One of our people wrote a VB program that uses a filecopy command to take a file from an NT workstation and copy it multiple times, each copy with a different name, to a filer share. According to him, if he copies a series of files and the first file is greater than 10K, it will successfully copy the remaining files with no error. If the file is less than 10K, he gets a "file path error" copying the first file, but the file will have copied. The error causes his VB program to halt. Any thoughts out there?

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RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page
by Mohler, Anissa 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

You all have a very good point ... I don't know why we can't do a couple aliases like "support.netapp.com" to go straight to the support home page or "survey.netapp.com" to jump people to a nice clean survey form set ... I'll ask :) Anissa Mohler NetApp Product Support -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sphar [mailto:mikey@Remedy.COM] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:38 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page Can we at least get a nice simple easy-to-remember URL? I'm accustomed to just typing "now.netapp.com" which I can easily remember. The new URL appears to be much longer and beyond my meager memory capacities. Something like "support.netapp.com" would be great, but it would be nice to at least have "now.netapp.com/support" rather than "now.netapp.com/Self-Service/Forms/SupportHome.asp" Not only is that long to type, but it's several upper-case letters and a dash. Not easy for me to remember precisely when I'm sitting at a random console. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: La Londe, Renee [mailto:Renee.LaLonde@netapp.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:04 PM To: 'tmerrill(a)mathworks.com<tmerrill(a)mathworks.com>' Cc: Braden, Jesse; dl-now; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page Hi Todd, Thanks for sharing your candid thoughts on the recent changes to the NOW site. Making the Service and Support home page one of the customizable options is an awesome idea and we will put it on the roadmap and let you know when we have it in place. We created the new Service and Support home page because there are other sections on NOW (such as Reseller Corner, etc) and some customers have complained that these sections were taking away valuable real-estate from the Service and Support tools on NOW. So we created the new (one-stop-shop) page that is 100% totally dedicated to Service and Support. This was done to make your life easier on the NOW site-- so your feedback is key to making sure we get it right. We will definitely make this new home page one of the customizable options and continue to minimize the marketing and use of frames,etc on this page. FYI, within Case Status Tool [http://now.netapp.com/Self-Service/FORMS/frmSearch.asp?ObjType=NA_WEB_PPAGE _CASE] , you can check the status of a Netapp case(s) by Entering the following: Netapp serial number Netapp case number OR Selecting the following: Last 7 days by location (ALL for your location) Last 7 days by Company (ALL for your company) Last 30 days by location (ALL for your location) Last 30 days by Company (ALL for your company) Open cases by location Open cases by company All by location All by company Just my cases (just the ones you have submitted) Makes me think that our UI may not be that clear if you weren't aware of these options... If you have any feedback on how we can make it better let me know-- but we will definitely look into it. Thanks again, Renee Renee La Londe Director, E-service Customer Facing Web Programs Network Appliance, Inc. 495 E. Java Sunnyvale CA 94089 Get Answers on NOW (Netapp on the Web)! http://now.netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:53 AM To: Sullivan, Justin Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Sullivan, Justin wrote: > We would certainly like to have more surveys returned - we should like to see EVERY survey returned. I have to admit, I used to fill these out, thinking NetApp was using some random sampling of cases in order to generate their metrics. But, it became quickly apparent that *every* call seems to generate a survey. Now I just delete them, unless the service was extremely good or extremely bad. More often than not, it's just "okay." Filling out a survey saying "you guys did a middle-of-the-road job" is like watching a newscast that report on a plane on a routine flight that landed successfully at the airport. <yawn> Might I suggest the suvey's include at least a descriptive ...ah ... description of the case? The last one I got said "Failure Error Message." And, which of the half-dozen cases I've entered in the past few weeks was that? Looking up the details in NOW revealed the subject there says "RBCLTO:Cluster Notification from filername (REBOOT (CLUSTER TAKEOVER))." Oh, yeah, now I remember. And, while I'm at it, the NOW pages have become way more cluttered, and slower, than they used to be. There are loads of icons/images "advertising" features of NetApps and NOW that are just getting in the way. It took me 2-3 minutes after logging into NOW just now to figure out where TF I could look back at my previous cases. It was buried under "Services and Support." Isn't that what NOW *is*? Didn't that used to be the "main" NOW page? And, why can't I look up a case solely by case number? I have to remember which filer it was associated with, too? Well, give me all the cases in the last month, then... Can the personal customization of NOW include an option "Expert mode - avoid icons and marketing crap" or allow me to set my "home" NOW page to http://now.netapp.com/Self-Service/Forms/SupportHome.asp instead? Sure, I could bookmark it, but when I'm in the machine room and need to grab a random machine and login not under my own account... Uh-oh. Looks like somebody is cranky this morning. Somebody hasn't had their juice box yet. Until next time... The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

1 0

RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page
by Mike Sphar 27 Apr '01

27 Apr '01

Can we at least get a nice simple easy-to-remember URL? I'm accustomed to just typing "now.netapp.com" which I can easily remember. The new URL appears to be much longer and beyond my meager memory capacities. Something like "support.netapp.com" would be great, but it would be nice to at least have "now.netapp.com/support" rather than "now.netapp.com/Self-Service/Forms/SupportHome.asp" Not only is that long to type, but it's several upper-case letters and a dash. Not easy for me to remember precisely when I'm sitting at a random console. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Services - Remedy Corporation BOFH, GWP, MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, BFD -----Original Message----- From: La Londe, Renee [mailto:Renee.LaLonde@netapp.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:04 PM To: 'tmerrill(a)mathworks.com<tmerrill(a)mathworks.com>' Cc: Braden, Jesse; dl-now; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp; Comments on NOW page Hi Todd, Thanks for sharing your candid thoughts on the recent changes to the NOW site. Making the Service and Support home page one of the customizable options is an awesome idea and we will put it on the roadmap and let you know when we have it in place. We created the new Service and Support home page because there are other sections on NOW (such as Reseller Corner, etc) and some customers have complained that these sections were taking away valuable real-estate from the Service and Support tools on NOW. So we created the new (one-stop-shop) page that is 100% totally dedicated to Service and Support. This was done to make your life easier on the NOW site-- so your feedback is key to making sure we get it right. We will definitely make this new home page one of the customizable options and continue to minimize the marketing and use of frames,etc on this page. FYI, within Case Status Tool [http://now.netapp.com/Self-Service/FORMS/frmSearch.asp?ObjType=NA_WEB_PPAGE _CASE] , you can check the status of a Netapp case(s) by Entering the following: Netapp serial number Netapp case number OR Selecting the following: Last 7 days by location (ALL for your location) Last 7 days by Company (ALL for your company) Last 30 days by location (ALL for your location) Last 30 days by Company (ALL for your company) Open cases by location Open cases by company All by location All by company Just my cases (just the ones you have submitted) Makes me think that our UI may not be that clear if you weren't aware of these options... If you have any feedback on how we can make it better let me know-- but we will definitely look into it. Thanks again, Renee Renee La Londe Director, E-service Customer Facing Web Programs Network Appliance, Inc. 495 E. Java Sunnyvale CA 94089 Get Answers on NOW (Netapp on the Web)! http://now.netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:53 AM To: Sullivan, Justin Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: "Case survey" stuff from NetApp On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Sullivan, Justin wrote: > We would certainly like to have more surveys returned - we should like to see EVERY survey returned. I have to admit, I used to fill these out, thinking NetApp was using some random sampling of cases in order to generate their metrics. But, it became quickly apparent that *every* call seems to generate a survey. Now I just delete them, unless the service was extremely good or extremely bad. More often than not, it's just "okay." Filling out a survey saying "you guys did a middle-of-the-road job" is like watching a newscast that report on a plane on a routine flight that landed successfully at the airport. <yawn> Might I suggest the suvey's include at least a descriptive ...ah ... description of the case? The last one I got said "Failure Error Message." And, which of the half-dozen cases I've entered in the past few weeks was that? Looking up the details in NOW revealed the subject there says "RBCLTO:Cluster Notification from filername (REBOOT (CLUSTER TAKEOVER))." Oh, yeah, now I remember. And, while I'm at it, the NOW pages have become way more cluttered, and slower, than they used to be. There are loads of icons/images "advertising" features of NetApps and NOW that are just getting in the way. It took me 2-3 minutes after logging into NOW just now to figure out where TF I could look back at my previous cases. It was buried under "Services and Support." Isn't that what NOW *is*? Didn't that used to be the "main" NOW page? And, why can't I look up a case solely by case number? I have to remember which filer it was associated with, too? Well, give me all the cases in the last month, then... Can the personal customization of NOW include an option "Expert mode - avoid icons and marketing crap" or allow me to set my "home" NOW page to http://now.netapp.com/Self-Service/Forms/SupportHome.asp instead? Sure, I could bookmark it, but when I'm in the machine room and need to grab a random machine and login not under my own account... Uh-oh. Looks like somebody is cranky this morning. Somebody hasn't had their juice box yet. Until next time... The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

1 0

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