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13515 discussions

upgarde from F740C to F820C
by max chan 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

dear all, Anyone can give me some idea how to upgarde from F740 Cluster running 5.3.1 to F820 cluster? I have currently a F740c. one have 2 diskshelf and 2 vol with it. The other one have one diskshelf and one vol. All using 36G harddisk. I need to plan for an upgarde from F740c to F820c. I don't know whether upgarde to 6.x first b4 move to F820c will help. Or should i choice backup and restore? of course, downtime is another concern. Max __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Sudden CIFS performance degradation
by Dianna Mullet 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

We're running OnTap 5.3.6 on an F760, serving both NFS and CIFS. It ran fine since we upgraded to 5.3.6 around 10 months ago, until early this week, when we began experiencing severely degraded CIFS performance. In some cases, CIFS times out and the client experiences data loss. What should I be looking for? We had a similar problem with our other filer a few months ago, but never determined the cause; we ended up solving the problem by upgrading to OnTap 6. This time, I would like to determine the cause _before_ we upgrade, but time is of the essence. Help/tips appreciated. Thanks, Dianna

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remove
by christian.witt＠philips.com 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

remove

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RE: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree
by Muhlestein, Mark 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

In that case it doesn't sound like the app is trying to set Unix security. Yes, the filer maps the UID to a SID, but as described in the FAQ, you can't set Unix security in an NTFS qtree no matter what NT user you map to. Assuming you've unsuccessfully tried to use the security troubleshooter to diagnose this, open a case with Netapp and get them a packet trace, along with the exact permissions of the files in question and the "wcc -dvv" output. Alternatively, if it is a standard application, give them a full description of how to reproduce this. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Steven Boyer [mailto:Steven.Boyer@gd-wts-centcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:30 PM To: 'Steven.Boyer(a)GD-WTS-CENTCOM.COM'; toasters; Muhlestein, Mark Subject: RE: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree But if I change the folder permissions to full control I can then save a file from a 3rd party Unix/Solaris application. Also doesn't the filer map a user's UID and GID to a SID. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Muhlestein, Mark" <mark.muhlestein(a)netapp.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:52:58 -0700 >See the security troubleshooter FAQ: > >http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/guides/53_troubleshooting/faq… > >"I tried to 'gunzip' (un-tar, check out, etc.) a file in an NTFS qtree and it failed! Why? > >"Any attempts to set UNIX security will fail in an NTFS qtree. Some UNIX applications fail to operate properly if they cannot set security. If you need to run such applications you must use a Mixed or UNIX qtree. In some cases Win32 versions of these commands are available (for example, with the cygwin tools or MKS Toolkit), which allows them to be run from CIFS clients in NTFS qtrees." > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven Boyer [mailto:Steven.Boyer@GD-WTS-CENTCOM.COM] >Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:51 PM >To: toasters >Subject: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree > > >Our configuration is 760 running 6.1R1 > >When I try to save a file from a Unix/Solaris application to a ntfs qtree/directory I get access denied. Using an xterm I can access the directory as myself and rm, touch, vi any file, just cant do the same form a Solaris application ie...file manager and 3rd party Unix apps. I have checked the group perms, and wcc -s and -u also wcc-d and all seem ok. Has anyone seen this problem before? > > >-- >Steven N. Boyer >UNIX/NT/NetApp Support >HQUSCENTCOM >General Dynamics >-- > -- Steven N. Boyer UNIX/NT/NetApp Support HQUSCENTCOM General Dynamics --

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RE: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree
by Steven Boyer 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

But if I change the folder permissions to full control I can then save a file from a 3rd party Unix/Solaris application. Also doesnt the filer map a user's UID and GID to a SID. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Muhlestein, Mark" <mark.muhlestein(a)netapp.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:52:58 -0700 >See the security troubleshooter FAQ: > >http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/guides/53_troubleshooting/faq… > >"I tried to 'gunzip' (un-tar, check out, etc.) a file in an NTFS qtree and it failed! Why? > >"Any attempts to set UNIX security will fail in an NTFS qtree. Some UNIX applications fail to operate properly if they cannot set security. If you need to run such applications you must use a Mixed or UNIX qtree. In some cases Win32 versions of these commands are available (for example, with the cygwin tools or MKS Toolkit), which allows them to be run from CIFS clients in NTFS qtrees." > >Mark > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven Boyer [mailto:Steven.Boyer@GD-WTS-CENTCOM.COM] >Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:51 PM >To: toasters >Subject: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree > > >Our configuration is 760 running 6.1R1 > >When I try to save a file from a Unix/Solaris application to a ntfs qtree/directory I get access denied. Using an xterm I can access the directory as myself and rm, touch, vi any file, just cant do the same form a Solaris application ie...file manager and 3rd party Unix apps. I have checked the group perms, and wcc -s and -u also wcc-d and all seem ok. Has anyone seen this problem before? > > >-- >Steven N. Boyer >UNIX/NT/NetApp Support >HQUSCENTCOM >General Dynamics >-- > -- Steven N. Boyer UNIX/NT/NetApp Support HQUSCENTCOM General Dynamics --

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RE: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree
by Muhlestein, Mark 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

See the security troubleshooter FAQ: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/guides/53_troubleshooting/faq… "I tried to 'gunzip' (un-tar, check out, etc.) a file in an NTFS qtree and it failed! Why? "Any attempts to set UNIX security will fail in an NTFS qtree. Some UNIX applications fail to operate properly if they cannot set security. If you need to run such applications you must use a Mixed or UNIX qtree. In some cases Win32 versions of these commands are available (for example, with the cygwin tools or MKS Toolkit), which allows them to be run from CIFS clients in NTFS qtrees." Mark -----Original Message----- From: Steven Boyer [mailto:Steven.Boyer@GD-WTS-CENTCOM.COM] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 4:51 PM To: toasters Subject: Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree Our configuration is 760 running 6.1R1 When I try to save a file from a Unix/Solaris application to a ntfs qtree/directory I get access denied. Using an xterm I can access the directory as myself and rm, touch, vi any file, just cant do the same form a Solaris application ie...file manager and 3rd party Unix apps. I have checked the group perms, and wcc -s and -u also wcc-d and all seem ok. Has anyone seen this problem before? -- Steven N. Boyer UNIX/NT/NetApp Support HQUSCENTCOM General Dynamics --

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add
by Puneet Gulati 07 Jun '01

07 Jun '01

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Unix applications accessing ntfs qtree
by Steven Boyer 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Our configuration is 760 running 6.1R1 When I try to save a file from a Unix/Solaris application to a ntfs qtree/directory I get access denied. Using an xterm I can access the directory as myself and rm, touch, vi any file, just cant do the same form a Solaris application ie...file manager and 3rd party Unix apps. I have checked the group perms, and wcc -s and -u also wcc-d and all seem ok. Has anyone seen this problem before? -- Steven N. Boyer UNIX/NT/NetApp Support HQUSCENTCOM General Dynamics --

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Moving data from one volume to another
by Robert.Sabo＠ecomm.bc.ca 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Hello all, We have a F720 filer where the data from one volume needs to be copied to another volume in the same filer. From the previous discussions on this mailing list, it appears that NDMPcopy 'infinite incremental' feature is the solution which provides the shortest possible downtime. What I would like to ask more experienced NetApp admins is whether there are known caveats in issuing something like: jndmpcopy filer:/vol/vol1 filer:/vol/vol2 -sa root:<passwd> -da root:<passwd> -level i Data ONTAP version is 6.01R1, and there is ~ 43 GB of data that needs to be moved. Any feedback on positive/negative experiences with this procedure is highly appreciated. Robert

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Renaming a Qtree
by Dale Wolf 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

The web interface doesn't provide a Qtree rename option. Is there a way to rename a Qtree without having to create a new Qtree, copy the data, and deleting the old Qtree? I have been told this copy process is the only way to rename a Qtree.

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RE: SQL Database on Filer ??
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

We've typically seen performance increases when moving from local storage to the filer. What kind of pipe are you using? If you're using 100 Mbps Ethernet, you'll see a performance hit since that's at best 8 MB/sec network throughput, which is trivial compared to local attach. If you are using gigabit Ethernet you should see excellent performance. Also how many disks are you using? Just like with local storage, more spindles = better performance. Are you using a private (or at least dedicated) network connection for the SQL Server to filer connection? If you're sending SQL queries to the box on the same interface that is talking to the filer that could cause significant performance degradation. Finally are you using OLTP or OLAP databases with the filer? (i.e. random or sequential reads?) NetApp folks might disagree but I think WAFL is a bad thing to mix with OLAP if you're using snapshots. It's great, absolutely phenomenal for OLTP, but sequential reads are not a filer's strong point (that's why it's called write ANYWHERE file layout, not "Write In Order and Minimize Fragmentation File Layout"). (Please no flames on how WAFL minimizes fragmentation--if you're using snapshots and you change any data in a database, the new data will be written elsewhere than the original disk location, causing the head to jump around like mad during what should be sequential reads. A copy-on-write snapshot would be MUCH better in this scenario.) Tell us more about your configuration so we can try to figure out why you're seeing problems. Also try pinging your sales rep, NetApp has people dedicated to making SQL Server work well with filers and I'm sure you could get some pointers from them. MD -----Original Message----- From: Dale Wolf [mailto:wolfd@agcs.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 7:32 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SQL Database on Filer ?? Has anyone placed a SQL database on a filer and seen a significant performance increase of 10% or more or a performance decrease of 10% or more? Our initial test of a source change management application using a SQL database on our filer showed a significant decrease in performance to the tune of 2-3 times slower than a local storage array. We understand ours wasn't an apples to apples comparison but we weren't expecting the difference to be this great. Has anyone else experienced a similar story where they have seen negative/positive results they would like to share? Our filer is a model F840.

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Changing UIDs on LOTS of files
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

You might remember my bringing up a lot of questions about dealing with huge numbers of inodes to support an application we use. Well, now that application has another interesting need. They are starting to use NIS on a bunch of the application servers and so have the change the UIDs on MILLIONS of files and directories on our F840. Obviously the usual methods (chmod, chgrp) are exceedingly slow for something like this.. we could be at it for weeks. Can anyone suggest a method to change the uid and gid on massive quantities of files/directories more quickly? Thanks! Tom

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list delays
by fubar＠pir.net 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

People may have noticed some rather lengthy delays on the mailing list. The MathWorks recently deployed a virus scanning solution between their real mail server and The Rest of The World. This seems to be slowing things down rather a lot; hopefully, this won't last too long, but I'll try to keep everyone up to date... K. owner-toasters

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SQL Database on Filer ??
by Dale Wolf 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Has anyone placed a SQL database on a filer and seen a significant performance increase of 10% or more or a performance decrease of 10% or more? Our initial test of a source change management application using a SQL database on our filer showed a significant decrease in performance to the tune of 2-3 times slower than a local storage array. We understand ours wasn't an apples to apples comparison but we weren't expecting the difference to be this great. Has anyone else experienced a similar story where they have seen negative/positive results they would like to share? Our filer is a model F840.

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RE: Renaming a Qtree
by Fox, Adam 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

You can rename a qtree by simply rename the top level directory. So if you're qtree is /vol/vol0/mytree. >From an NFS or CIFS client, rename that mytree directory to something else. Just watch your /etc/exports, CIFS share points, and your /etc/quotas file since you've changed something underneath them. But you should be able to avoid moving data from one tree to another. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Dale Wolf [mailto:wolfd@agcs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:15 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Renaming a Qtree > > > The web interface doesn't provide a Qtree rename option. Is > there a way > to rename a Qtree > without having to create a new Qtree, copy the data, and deleting the > old Qtree? I have been told this copy process is the only > way to rename > a Qtree. > >

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RE: ndmpcopy
by White, Lance 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Have you enabled NDMPD on both Filers? "ndmpd on" as per http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/ontap/rel61r1/html/dpg/ndmp4.htm -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Foy [mailto:Joseph.Foy@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:15 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: ndmpcopy Thanks to all who sent me references to where to get ndmpcopy! Now I'm having another brainless moment - when I run it as shown below giving it source and destination passwords, and having all machines (the sun and both filer1 and filer2) in each other's hosts, hosts.equiv, and .rhosts files, I still get the error message shown at the bottom. I can rsh the filers all day and dump between filers works fine. example: ======================= mysun# ./ndmpcopy Source and destination filer names and paths are required. Usage: ndmpcopy src_filer:/src/dir dest_filer:/dest/dir [-sa none | user:password] [-da none | user:password] [-sport ndmp_src_port] [-dport ndmp_dest_port] [-dhost ndmp_dest_ip_addr] [-level ndmp_dump_level] [-v] [-q] [-dpass] [-h] Defaults: src_auth_type = text src_auth_user = root src_auth_password = dest_auth_type = text dest_auth_user = root dest_auth_password = ndmp_src_port = 0 (0 means NDMP default, usually 10000) ndmp_dest_port = 0 (0 means NDMP default, usually 10000) ndmp_dump_level = 0 (valid range: 0 - 9) ndmp_dest_ip_addr = (no default: user needs to override dest_filer value) verbosity = noisy different_passwords = no mysun# ./ndmpcopy filer1:/home/tools filer2:/home/tools -sa root:rootpass -da root:rootpass -level 0 -v Connecting to filer1. Connecting to filer2. Error starting backup, error: Error: Connection has not been authorized mysun# _____________________________________________________ Joseph Foy / Systems Administrator / World Wide Packets Beaverton, Oregon / 503-748-0521 / joseph.foy(a)wwp.com fax # 503-748-0510 http://www.wwp.com

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ndmpcopy
by Joseph Foy 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Thanks to all who sent me references to where to get ndmpcopy! Now I'm having another brainless moment - when I run it as shown below giving it source and destination passwords, and having all machines (the sun and both filer1 and filer2) in each other's hosts, hosts.equiv, and .rhosts files, I still get the error message shown at the bottom. I can rsh the filers all day and dump between filers works fine. example: ======================= mysun# ./ndmpcopy Source and destination filer names and paths are required. Usage: ndmpcopy src_filer:/src/dir dest_filer:/dest/dir [-sa none | user:password] [-da none | user:password] [-sport ndmp_src_port] [-dport ndmp_dest_port] [-dhost ndmp_dest_ip_addr] [-level ndmp_dump_level] [-v] [-q] [-dpass] [-h] Defaults: src_auth_type = text src_auth_user = root src_auth_password = dest_auth_type = text dest_auth_user = root dest_auth_password = ndmp_src_port = 0 (0 means NDMP default, usually 10000) ndmp_dest_port = 0 (0 means NDMP default, usually 10000) ndmp_dump_level = 0 (valid range: 0 - 9) ndmp_dest_ip_addr = (no default: user needs to override dest_filer value) verbosity = noisy different_passwords = no mysun# ./ndmpcopy filer1:/home/tools filer2:/home/tools -sa root:rootpass -da root:rootpass -level 0 -v Connecting to filer1. Connecting to filer2. Error starting backup, error: Error: Connection has not been authorized mysun# _____________________________________________________ Joseph Foy / Systems Administrator / World Wide Packets Beaverton, Oregon / 503-748-0521 / joseph.foy(a)wwp.com fax # 503-748-0510 http://www.wwp.com

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Please help with this "simple" problem.
by Bokkelkamp Ernst SBS ITS GDP 2 14 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

I "playing" with an F760 and NDMP backup, but I am only the backup administrator, my filer knowledge is limited. I doing a three-way NDMP session, the source is the F760 and the tapes are on a Celerra. All machines have 100TX and GigE, normal network connection is the 100TX network which is registered in WINS and DNS, the GigE is a private backup network that is normally used to mount the CIFS shares on a Networker Storage Node for a CIFS based backup. Can somebody tell me how I can see on the filer which interface is being used to transfer the data between the machines ? I am looking for something similar to sysstat but instead to display the information on transfer rate of each interface at regular intervals. Bye Ernst

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RE: compiled version of ndmpcopy
by Coartney, Paul 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

The makefile at the root doesn't work, compile cd into the lib directory and compile the libraries, and then cd into src and compile the source. My preference is to make a bin directory and mv or ln the binary there. Paul P.S. Let me know if this doesn't work for you and I will send you the compiled version. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Foy [mailto:Joseph.Foy@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:22 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: compiled version of ndmpcopy Greetings all, Does anyone know of a source for ndmpcopy that is a compiled binary for Solaris? I have been trying to compile all of the versions of ndmpcopy that I can find at www.ndmp.org on my Sun server, but using gcc and several different versions of make hasn't worked. I cannot use vol copy as both my source and destination filers have only one volume, and the root volume can't be taken offline for the destination. Joseph Foy / Systems Administrator / World Wide Packets Beaverton, Oregon / 503-748-0521 / joseph.foy(a)wwp.com fax # 503-748-0510 http://www.wwp.com

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RE: compiled version of ndmpcopy
by Smith, A Michael (CS) 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Yes. ftp.netapp.com/pub/ndmpcopy/ download the file called ndmpcopy.Z uncompress the file on your solaris platform. chomd u+x ndmpcopy to make it executable. Then to test to make sure it works you can just execute "ndmpcopy" you should see a usage statement returned. Mike Smith -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Foy [mailto:Joseph.Foy@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:22 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: compiled version of ndmpcopy Greetings all, Does anyone know of a source for ndmpcopy that is a compiled binary for Solaris? I have been trying to compile all of the versions of ndmpcopy that I can find at www.ndmp.org on my Sun server, but using gcc and several different versions of make hasn't worked. I cannot use vol copy as both my source and destination filers have only one volume, and the root volume can't be taken offline for the destination. Joseph Foy / Systems Administrator / World Wide Packets Beaverton, Oregon / 503-748-0521 / joseph.foy(a)wwp.com fax # 503-748-0510 http://www.wwp.com

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RE: compiled version of ndmpcopy
by White, Lance 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

ftp://ftp.netapp.com/pub/netapp/upload/ndmpcopy/ Either Solaris or Solaris2.7 directories will yield this. Lance -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Foy [mailto:Joseph.Foy@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:22 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: compiled version of ndmpcopy Greetings all, Does anyone know of a source for ndmpcopy that is a compiled binary for Solaris? I have been trying to compile all of the versions of ndmpcopy that I can find at www.ndmp.org on my Sun server, but using gcc and several different versions of make hasn't worked. I cannot use vol copy as both my source and destination filers have only one volume, and the root volume can't be taken offline for the destination. Joseph Foy / Systems Administrator / World Wide Packets Beaverton, Oregon / 503-748-0521 / joseph.foy(a)wwp.com fax # 503-748-0510 http://www.wwp.com

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compiled version of ndmpcopy
by Joseph Foy 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Greetings all, Does anyone know of a source for ndmpcopy that is a compiled binary for Solaris? I have been trying to compile all of the versions of ndmpcopy that I can find at www.ndmp.org on my Sun server, but using gcc and several different versions of make hasn't worked. I cannot use vol copy as both my source and destination filers have only one volume, and the root volume can't be taken offline for the destination. Joseph Foy / Systems Administrator / World Wide Packets Beaverton, Oregon / 503-748-0521 / joseph.foy(a)wwp.com fax # 503-748-0510 http://www.wwp.com

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storage area network deployment (fwd)
by Brian Tao 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Anyone else getting the following unsolicited survey? Just wondering if nww.com is looking for names on this list, or if they got my e-mail address some other way. I haven't posted in a newsgroup in years... -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob(a)risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:31:45 -0000 From: Deni Connor <dconnor(a)nww.com> To: 'Brian Tao' <taob(a)risc.org> Subject: storage area network deployment I saw your name on a newsgroup and am interested in user perspective for a story I am writing for Network World on storage. Today, IBM, EMC, Compaq, Hitachi Data Systems, Brocaade and McData announced the Supported Solutions Forum, which will offer storage area networking solutions and unified support for customers. They say that with support measures in place for heterogenous SANs that it will stop the fingerpointing that takes place when a user adopts a multi-vendor SAN. The user will be able to contact a vendor when he/she has a problem and that vendor will contact other vendors to solve the problem. The companies will also build 128-port Fibre Channel SANs using McData and Brocade switches. 1. Would the existance of such a forum give you a better reason to adopt a SAN? 2. Would you trust the members of this organization to handle cooperative support better? 3. The organization doesn't support equipment from HP or Sun. Is this a problem for your? 4. Are you adopting SANS? If yes, why? If not, why not? 5. If you have the vendor's assuances that the SAN products they put in will interoperate, will that make it easier for you o adopt a SAN? 6. Would you be happier adopting a SAN knowing that it could be made up from a variety of vendors products? 7. Do you think that being a member of this group will make vendors make equipment more interoperable? 8 If I don't have this info, what is your title? Who do you work for? Where are you located? Thank you in advance. Deni Connor Senior Editor Network World, The Leader in Network Knowledge Tele: 512-345-3850 Fax: 512-345-3860 8815 Mountain Path Circle Austin, Texas 78759 Covering Storage, Novell, Linux and open source For Networking News & Info: www.nwfusion.com Find out more about Network World, Inc.: www.networkworld.com

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RE: Exchange 5.5 on Filer
by Riley, Mike 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Scott is right on the money. Microsoft does not recommend nor support Exchange on NAS. Sure, I'd like to sugarcoat it for Scott and other Toasterites, but I can't so why spin-doctor it. We're working on it. More to Scott's point on the Exchange database sucking, well, that's the primary reason why Exchange on Filers is a growth industry. I usually try to break it down this way: Performance: Filers excel but let's just say this is a wash. Simple: While we all read or write Toasters in search of solutions, we can all make a pretty good case on filer simplicity and TCO (particularly in the Exchange environment). Reliable: And this is the key point. Neither a fibre SAN nor Network Appliance will prevent an Exchange corruption. You will get hit with a corruption. I don't believe the filer invites the trouble. I believe the trouble will find you, regardless. The question then becomes how do I recover from this inevitability. That's why SnapManager for Exchange has carved out a substantial market - for both NetApp AND Microsoft. Believe it or not, Microsoft works their asses off to make Exchange a solid product. Sure, you get corruptions and they tend to be stealthy and nasty but Microsoft has made a fairly easy to use messaging platform and that ain't easy to do! What usually makes Admins break out into a nice flop-sweat is the fact that your CEO probably couldn't name the last time the Oracle or SQL servers experienced a corruption, but they could probably name down to the and minute the last time they couldn't use e-mail. SnapManager keeps the phone from ringing, keeps the flop-sweats to a minimum. (Being an ex-Admin, it's one of things we ponder when standing in front of a server at 2:00 a.m. waiting for the consistency check to finish.) Actually, some of my better customers were the ones that took a pass the first time around but called back in the midst of another outage. SnapManager actually provides Exchange Admins a solid tool to deploy Exchange environments. It's the perfect safety n! et. Let's face it, no one is out there pitching slow, complicated and unpredictable. We are addressing the somewhat unpredictable nature of Exchange by allowing you to recover your stors in minutes vs. <fill in your personal experience from your last Exchange outage>. Your points are well-taken. NetApp will support and is probably your best source of support when it comes to Exchange on filers. Hopefully, this will keep your site in the "supportable" category. -----Original Message----- From: Waters, G Scott DSTI [mailto:scott.waters@SBCCOM.APGEA.ARMY.MIL] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:12 AM To: 'Rafi Mimon'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Exchange 5.5 on Filer You need to rephrase that statement ... Microsoft does not recommend or support Exchange 5.5 or 2K on any NAS. We are in the process of upgrading our entire Exchange site. We currently run very old multi-processor servers and serve about 400 - 500 users on each machine. I was tasked to recommend an upgrade path ... after hearing Microsoft's recommendations and taking into account that we are Microsoft Premier Support customer, I recommended a SAN solution. My recommendations were ignored and as the Exchange Admin, I am now being forced to implement a NAS solution. I have nothing against the Filer or NetApp. The product is wonderful. I do however, realize that the Exchange database sucks and when you talk to it through the Windows "redirector" you are asking for trouble. The decision should be based on how comfortable you are with Exchange and the Filer and also if you are willing to run Exchange in an unsupported mode (from Microsoft - NetApp has some arrangement with IBM Global for Exchange support if you need it after putting your system into an unsupported mode). I talked to several references and they all had nothing but good things to say. I'll have some personal stories to share in the next month or two. In all the meetings and arguing that lead up to the decision there was one statement that just floored me. It was at a meeting where I am defending my position to use SAN technology and not NAS. Someone in the meeting turns to me and says "I can't believe you are going to let Microsoft dictate your hardware requirements". I was floored and replied "a.) As the author of the software in question, I figured they would have the best knowledge on where to run it and more importantly b.) we (as an organization) let Microsoft dictate the software that we run (we only run Microsoft products, we can only develop in Microsoft languages, etc) so I figured if we follow like lambs in one case ... why not the other??" Remember, before you flame, I am in no way slamming the NetApp or the Filer in general ... I was just trying to keep the site "supportable". Scott Waters US Army HQ Soldier and Biological Chemical Command (USAHQSBCCOM) scott.waters(a)sbccom.apgea.army.mil -----Original Message----- From: Rafi Mimon [mailto:rmimon@vyyo.co.il] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 9:12 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Exchange 5.5 on Filer Hello all, I'm thinking of using the Filer with Exchange 5.5. I have one F740 with ONTAP 6.0.2R1. Microsoft does not recommend to use any NAS system for the exchange database files, so I would like to hear from you guys, did you encountered any problems? should I connect the Exchange server and the Filer Back to back or to the LANs backbone? Rafi Mimon VYYO.LTD. E-mail :rmimon@vyyo.co.il ********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error (whether inadvertently addressed to you, or if forwarded to you by a recipient), please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by Vyyo's Virus Scan Systems for the presence of computer viruses. **********************************************************************

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RE: Exchange 5.5 on Filer [long]
by Witham, John 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Hi Rafi: Sorry in advance for the long email... Everything's still fresh in my mind. We've now got 2 Exchange 5.5SP4 servers running at our company on NAS. One of them, serving our 100% remote sales staff of 1000, has been up and running for almost a year on the original SnapManager 1.0 software, with very acceptable results. Last weekend (Memorial Day weekend in the US), we were alerted that our primary Exchange server could no longer be backed up due to possible corruption in the database. This box is our "Bread And Butter" Exchange Server, serving 500 people at our Home Office. The IS was 80GB (don't ask.) and it was stored on a local RAID 0+1 array. Over the weekend, we built a new box running Win2K Advanced Server and installed 5.5SP4 on it, along with the latest and greatest SnapManager. We had some difficulties with the new SnapManager software (mostly due to unfamiliarities, it has an app that replaces the AUTOEXECNT workaround, but it's buggy). We moved all of the mailboxes off of the ailing box, and my Exchange Admins are very impressed with the Filer performance. There are some serious pros and cons about using Snapmanager: Pros: * You can snapshot whenever you want. We're doing 4 a day and backing up one. * NetApp provides software (SnapManager/SnapRestore) that is very easy to migrate an existing server to NAS * You can add storage to a volume on the fly, invisibly. This was _very_ helpful whilst we were moving so many large mailboxes... We had to grow the logs volume after it filled up when we were moving the mailboxes... 36GB was gone in no time. * If you want, SnapManager will do a database consistency verification... Provided you want to throw 110% of free space at the volume! (Again, back to my 80GB information store (don't ask.)) * SnapManager allows you NOT to do an ESEUTIL. It's _very_ system intensive and lengthy, so we only do 1 a day, for our backup to tape. You can also run the ESEUTIL from a different server without impacting performance. Cons: * The new SnapManager software provides a utility called NetAppDisk which is pretty buggy. It's supposed to monitor connectivity to the Filer and stop your Exchange services if you lose your connection. When the connection is re-established, it will restart the services you tell it to. In our installation, it started most of the services we wanted it to, and all of the services we DIDN'T want it to. (Even though the app was configured not to start our Lotus cc:Mail connector service (which we don't use), it would. The service, which wasn't configured, would crap out and die. NetAppDisk would try to start it again. It died again. NetAppDisk then pauses itself, so it won't try to start the services again. Since it's paused, it's not monitoring the connectivity to the filer.) It also, for some reason, doesn't start the MS Exchange MTA (This is a Bad Thing(tm)). It's a cool concept, but when the rubber meets the road, the product isn't there yet. I've asked about a new version, but haven't gotten anything back. * I had to update my Filer to 6.1R1... SnapManager requires Data ONTAP 6.0.2 or 6.1. I had no issues, as it was a "F760 I had laying around" and I could do a ground up build... Just something to think about. * I'm using quite a bit of disk... 9 36GB disks in all right now, 3 for transaction logs, and 6 for my IS. That's 324GB RAW space. Subtract 2 disks for parity and FS overhead, snapshot retention... yadda yadda yadda. In my 0+1 array, I had 8 mirrored 18g's and a pair of mirrored 9's for my logs. These snapshot's sure do take up space! I figure if I can avoid/recover from just one virus outbreak, it's paid for. As far as it goes with M$ support? My NetApp rep, Kevin Bushnick, summed it up pretty well once: "If you're down and have an 8 hour turnaround support contract with M$, would you rather go that route or recover in 2 hours (Worst case scenario; you have to rebuild the OS on your box)." The first box we brought up had some fierce hardware problems and would just shut down when it was under heavy loads... The next time it went down, we pulled the OS drives and slapped them into an identical box. The OS came up, hit the Filer, and has been running fine ever since. Regarding network connectivity, the "temp Exchange box" is using a single Gigabit Ethernet NIC plugged into our Cisco Catalyst 6500 series backbone switches. The filer in question is connected via a multi GigE vif using Cisco Gig-EtherChannel. We're not using Jumbo Frames, and aren't having any network bottlenecks. Just my .02 (Which is more like 2.00 now) Our decision is to rebuild the production server with only GigE and keep all databases on the filer. The performance is acceptable, and the pros really outweighed the cons in our case. I just can't wait until NetApp fixes the NetAppDisk app. HTH, -john John Witham Sr. Data Networking Engineer Takeda Pharmaceuticals North America, Inc. Voice ://847.383.3304 FAX ://847.383.3205 Mailto://jwitham@takedapharm.com Pager : http://www.arch.com/message PIN 4149491 -----Original Message----- From: Rafi Mimon [mailto:rmimon@vyyo.co.il] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:12 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Exchange 5.5 on Filer Hello all, I'm thinking of using the Filer with Exchange 5.5. I have one F740 with ONTAP 6.0.2R1. Microsoft does not recommend to use any NAS system for the exchange database files, so I would like to hear from you guys, did you encountered any problems? should I connect the Exchange server and the Filer Back to back or to the LANs backbone? Rafi Mimon VYYO.LTD. E-mail :rmimon@vyyo.co.il ********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error (whether inadvertently addressed to you, or if forwarded to you by a recipient), please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by Vyyo's Virus Scan Systems for the presence of computer viruses. **********************************************************************

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