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13531 discussions

RE: NT And SQL with Network Appliance
by Joe Luchtenberg 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

Wow! Can I give you as a reference account to interested NetApp prospects?! Reminds me of the post about 8 months ago (?) from a longtime toaster admin who was griping about something then qualified it with a comment to the effect of, "Don't get me wrong, you can take my filer when you rip it from my cold, dead fingers!" -----Original Message----- From: Gagnon, Steven (P.) [mailto:sgagnon3@visteon.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 3:45 PM To: 'lgartner(a)rpu.org'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: NT And SQL with Network Appliance Hi Lori, Doug Wellbaum asked me to answer some concerns you may have. You may contact me personally if you have any more questions. We have 2 databases running on the filer on the SQL (ver. 6.5) end. Both of them are 500MB. Relatively small but effective. We have encountered no problem with the filer. I haven't used the filer yet in a disaster recovery plan, but I'm sure I would have no issue. Best practice is to use SnapShots or Snap Mirror for added protection. I would consider running your SQL backups (log files) just a few minutes before a snap shot occurs, then in case of disaster, you have to most up to date information and can get your database back on line within minutes. Create a separate ID for the filer and give it Admin privileges. Have it log on as a service. Do not use your Administrator account as if you change your password you will get suspect databases. -- This is from the trenches, things where you go, Ooops! when you are learning for the first time... Make sure it is on a different volume than your data storage. I have never experienced any down time with the filer. We have had it for over a year so far. It's a F740. We have two of them. The other serves UNIX and Oracle. Oracle embraces NetApp. Still wondering why Microsoft is so far behind the ball on this one??? It is as reliable as the hard disk you are using, with snap shot it becomes more reliable and faster than SCSI. As for service from NetApp. It is A1. I have never seen any other company with such dedicated people. You've have already experienced this, I'm sure... They were here late in the evening, early in the morning. Their telephone support is top notch. They will not let you go until your problem is solved, and their expertise is number one. I have 100GB for file storage. This works great too. You can call me if you have any other questions. Thanks Steven Steven Gagnon Visteon Canada Inc. Tel: (905) 475 8510 Ext. 4207 NT / SQL System Administrator Pager: (416) 753 3132 Markham, Ontario, Canada FordNet: 854-4207 Fax: (905) 470 3296 "Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." -Oliver Wendell Holmes

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Using a Filer 740 with DFS (Distributed File System)
by Grey, Michael 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

I'm having a problem with the filer only supporting 256 characters as a combination of the path and file name. I have an NT Server currently running DFS with local attached storage. I would like to migrate the data from NT to the filer while still keeping the NT Server running DFS as the entry point into the filer. When trying to migrate files with a length greater then 256 characters I receive an error message that the file name or extension is too long. Would anyone happen to know of a workaround for this issue. The Filer is a F740 with 1TB disk space with release 6.1 Regards, Michael Grey Toronto Transit Commission Information Technology Services Client / Server Technical Support 416-393-6791 michael.grey(a)ttc.ca

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NT And SQL with Network Appliance
by Gagnon, Steven (P.) 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

Hi Lori, Doug Wellbaum asked me to answer some concerns you may have. You may contact me personally if you have any more questions. We have 2 databases running on the filer on the SQL (ver. 6.5) end. Both of them are 500MB. Relatively small but effective. We have encountered no problem with the filer. I haven't used the filer yet in a disaster recovery plan, but I'm sure I would have no issue. Best practice is to use SnapShots or Snap Mirror for added protection. I would consider running your SQL backups (log files) just a few minutes before a snap shot occurs, then in case of disaster, you have to most up to date information and can get your database back on line within minutes. Create a separate ID for the filer and give it Admin privileges. Have it log on as a service. Do not use your Administrator account as if you change your password you will get suspect databases. -- This is from the trenches, things where you go, Ooops! when you are learning for the first time... Make sure it is on a different volume than your data storage. I have never experienced any down time with the filer. We have had it for over a year so far. It's a F740. We have two of them. The other serves UNIX and Oracle. Oracle embraces NetApp. Still wondering why Microsoft is so far behind the ball on this one??? It is as reliable as the hard disk you are using, with snap shot it becomes more reliable and faster than SCSI. As for service from NetApp. It is A1. I have never seen any other company with such dedicated people. You've have already experienced this, I'm sure... They were here late in the evening, early in the morning. Their telephone support is top notch. They will not let you go until your problem is solved, and their expertise is number one. I have 100GB for file storage. This works great too. You can call me if you have any other questions. Thanks Steven Steven Gagnon Visteon Canada Inc. Tel: (905) 475 8510 Ext. 4207 NT / SQL System Administrator Pager: (416) 753 3132 Markham, Ontario, Canada FordNet: 854-4207 Fax: (905) 470 3296 "Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." -Oliver Wendell Holmes

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RE: 34F+ & 36F impact on snapmirror
by Debbie.Lane＠intermec.com 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

The 36 GB BCS drive (34F+) is .5GB smaller than the 36GB ZCS (36F) drive. Sorry I can't help with the other questions. -----Original Message----- From: NicholosC(a)maxis.net.my [mailto:NicholosC@maxis.net.my] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 9:19 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: 34F+ & 36F impact on snapmirror All, Had an original F740 with two full shelves of 36F disks. Added a new F740 (for snapmirror purpose) with the same configuration but it came with the new 34F+ disks. Configured the new filer with the identical volume configuration for snapmirror. Original filer was running 5.3.7r3 while the new filer is running 6.1r1 because of the requirement of 34F+ disks. My issues are: (1) Anybody has the information on the "right-size" of the 34F+ disk? My understanding is that 36F has 34,500 KB. The yellow flyer says that 34F+ has lesser capacity but that does not help very much, how much lesser? (2) Because of the lesser capacity (I guess), the target volume can not be snapmirrored. I have to rearrange the volume configuration making the target volumes by one disk more than the source volume, only after that the snapmirror went through. The intention of the snapmirror is for disaster recovery. In the event that the source filer is not available, the target filer will be changed from snapmirrored status to regular volume. When the original source filer is ready for operation again, what is the best practice to move the data back? (3) Snapmirror back on the reverse direction would not work because now the original source filer volume is smaller than the original target volume. (4) Would vol copy falls into the same restriction of target volume has to be equal or larger? In my case, they could not be equal because of one is using 36F and the other is using 34F+. Thanks in advanced for your comments/suggestions. Nic

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RE: Snapmirror, Snapshots and DF output
by Brookes, Matt 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

Hi FPS France, :) You're probably experiencing bug 18560 http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=18560. The destination volume displays the default snap reserve of 20%. This is fixed in DataONTAP 6.0 and above, whereby the snap reserve set on the source volume is propagated to the destination. See NOW for current GA release - 6.0.1R3 at the time of writing. Regards, Matt. ________________________________________________________________ Matthew Brookes mailto:mbrookes@netapp.com Systems Engineer http://www.netapp.com Network Appliance Tel: +353 1 4064600 Unit 36, Rathfarnham Gate Fax: +353 1 4064601 Dublin 14, IRELAND Mob: +353 87 8575127 > -----Original Message----- > From: FPS France [mailto:fpsfrance@fps.fr] > Sent: 03 July 2001 17:10 > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Snapmirror, Snapshots and DF output > > > FPS France > > Hi, > > We had installed a snapmirror configuration with the following > particular trick : snap reserve volX 5 as the costumer would limit the > snapshot space consuption. > Now the snapmirror service works fine, the costumer > outlined something > strange in the DF output from each Filers. > Each Filer has a root volume mirrored on the other Filer. > As u can see > below, sources volumes are vol0 and mirrors volumes are mir_vol0. > From my calculation (less or more), I can check that for > vol0's volumes, > we had a snapshots reserved space around 5%, but in mir_vol0's we have > roughtly four times the snap space consuption more than the > source volume > (31.8 vs 7.9 and 15.6 vs 3.9 : 5% vs 20%). Before making those volumes > snapmirror destinations we took care to modify the snap > reserve to 5%. So > why do we got those outputs ? Any idea ? Any experience with > the df command > snap reserve 5 and snapmirror ? > All of this run on 5.3.7R3, F740. > > Netapp 1 : > << > ===== DF ===== > Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity > Mounted on > /vol/vol0/ 150937460 137664288 13273172 91% > /vol/vol0/ > /vol/vol0/.snapshot 7944076 1473572 6470504 19% > /vol/vol0/.snapshot > /vol/mir_vol0/ 62593232 155988 62437244 0% > /vol/mir_vol0/ > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot 15648304 510236 15138068 3% > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot > >> > > Netapp2 : > << > ===== DF ===== > Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity > Mounted on > /vol/vol0/ 74329460 155988 74173472 0% > /vol/vol0/ > /vol/vol0/.snapshot 3912076 510236 3401840 13% > /vol/vol0/.snapshot > /vol/mir_vol0/ 127105232 137664288 0 108% > /vol/mir_vol0/ > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot 31776304 1473572 30302732 5% > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot > >> >

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36F disk
by Debbie.Lane＠intermec.com 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

Can a 36F Fibre Channel disk be used in a system that is not NetApp? I am asking because the decision to buy or lease was based on the belief that if at some point we wanted to discontinue using NetApp the disks could be used elsewhere. Thanks for your help. --Debbie

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RE: Snapmirror, Snapshots and DF output
by Fox, Adam 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

2 things stand out in your message. 1. Reducing snap reserve does not contain snapshot usage. Snapshots will take up as much space as they need regardless of snap reserve size. What snap reserve does is contain the active file system blocks to a certain amount of space. This is an important concept in SnapShot planning. 2. It would be good to see the output of a snap reserve command from each filer. Something looks a little off. Becuase it seems that you adjusted the snap reserve AFTER the snap mirror occured because as I read it below, your sources are larger than your destinations and that is not possible with SnapMirror. 3. A sysconfig -r would also be useful just to match eveything up. While some volumes of different sizes work with SnapMirror, the simplest way to implement SnapMirror is to simply set up each source and destination the same way (if possible) so that it's easy to compare sizes properly. I realize that this isn't always possible, but if you have the opportunity to do it, it makes life easier. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > why do we got those outputs ? Any idea ? Any experience with > the df command > snap reserve 5 and snapmirror ? > All of this run on 5.3.7R3, F740. > > Netapp 1 : > << > ===== DF ===== > Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity > Mounted on > /vol/vol0/ 150937460 137664288 13273172 91% > /vol/vol0/ > /vol/vol0/.snapshot 7944076 1473572 6470504 19% > /vol/vol0/.snapshot > /vol/mir_vol0/ 62593232 155988 62437244 0% > /vol/mir_vol0/ > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot 15648304 510236 15138068 3% > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot > >> > > Netapp2 : > << > ===== DF ===== > Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity > Mounted on > /vol/vol0/ 74329460 155988 74173472 0% > /vol/vol0/ > /vol/vol0/.snapshot 3912076 510236 3401840 13% > /vol/vol0/.snapshot > /vol/mir_vol0/ 127105232 137664288 0 108% > /vol/mir_vol0/ > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot 31776304 1473572 30302732 5% > /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot > >> >

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Snapmirror, Snapshots and DF output
by FPS France 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

FPS France Hi, We had installed a snapmirror configuration with the following particular trick : snap reserve volX 5 as the costumer would limit the snapshot space consuption. Now the snapmirror service works fine, the costumer outlined something strange in the DF output from each Filers. Each Filer has a root volume mirrored on the other Filer. As u can see below, sources volumes are vol0 and mirrors volumes are mir_vol0. From my calculation (less or more), I can check that for vol0's volumes, we had a snapshots reserved space around 5%, but in mir_vol0's we have roughtly four times the snap space consuption more than the source volume (31.8 vs 7.9 and 15.6 vs 3.9 : 5% vs 20%). Before making those volumes snapmirror destinations we took care to modify the snap reserve to 5%. So why do we got those outputs ? Any idea ? Any experience with the df command snap reserve 5 and snapmirror ? All of this run on 5.3.7R3, F740. Netapp 1 : << ===== DF ===== Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on /vol/vol0/ 150937460 137664288 13273172 91% /vol/vol0/ /vol/vol0/.snapshot 7944076 1473572 6470504 19% /vol/vol0/.snapshot /vol/mir_vol0/ 62593232 155988 62437244 0% /vol/mir_vol0/ /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot 15648304 510236 15138068 3% /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot >> Netapp2 : << ===== DF ===== Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on /vol/vol0/ 74329460 155988 74173472 0% /vol/vol0/ /vol/vol0/.snapshot 3912076 510236 3401840 13% /vol/vol0/.snapshot /vol/mir_vol0/ 127105232 137664288 0 108% /vol/mir_vol0/ /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot 31776304 1473572 30302732 5% /vol/mir_vol0/.snapshot >>

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deleting a qtree
by Leonard, Roger 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

is there any way to delete a qtree? i typo'ed one and now want to remove it. thanks Roger D. Leonard

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RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by Fox, Adam 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

> - so we used ndmp through tapes because we were not sure > enought of the > NdmpCopy reliability - may I find a tool to validate NdmpCopy > in our lab ? > :) > I've had this question asked before and my answer was simple. All the ndmpcopy does is call our native dump and restore programs on the filer (or filers if you are copying filer to filer). The host running ndmpcopy is not involved in the tranfer other than telling each host what to do, the data path is within the same filer or filer to filer. So if you trust our dump and restore commands, then you should trust ndmpcopy since underneath the covers they are the same thing. Don't misunderstand. The way you did it was fine. But if you were willing to trust dump and restore with tapes, you should be able to trust ndmpcopy since they are making the same calls. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com

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RE: F85 Vs 740
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Look at it this way. The F85 is a replacement for the F720. The F820 is a replacement for the F760. What's the replacement for the F740? I don't see one yet. So my guess is NetApp plans to keep the F740 around for a while. I'd go for it. It's a better box in a lot of ways than the F85 (NetApp-designed hardware compared to COTS hardware, clusterable, a tad more scalable, FC drives instead of SCSI drives, etc). Tom -----Original Message----- From: Steve Losen [mailto:scl@sasha.acc.virginia.edu] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:05 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: F85 Vs 740 The 740 is an older model and the F85 is brand new. Since the end of availability dates have already been announced for the 720 and 760, I would want to have some idea how much longer Netapp will support the 740 as compared to the F85. Bear in mind that the 700 series uses a DEC Alpha processor and the new 800 series and F85 are Intel. Soon the 740 will be the only Alpha based filer that Netapp still sells. On the other hand, if you need something fast, and it's not clear how soon you can get a F85, then a 740 might look more attractive, especially if you are getting a nice discount because of the F85 unavailability. > > I'm a NetApp newbie looking for feedback from experience users of these > boxes. > > I just ordered a F85, but because of non availability of F85's was offered a > 740 instead. > I'm not as concerned w/ scalability as I am w/ performance. > The data that it will host is under a 100GB now and should grow much beyond > 200GB. > The F85 that I ordered has 12 36GB drives which I figure will leave me w/ > ~280GB of usable space. > > There are 120 NT 4 workstations and a handful of UNIX boxes on this network. > The majority of the data will be CIFS, some NFS and HTTP. I plan on moving > all of the users home folders and shared data to the filer. > The connectivity of the servers and filer will be at 100Mb and the > workstations are at 10Mb. > > Any feedback would be appreciated. > > Mark > > Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 804-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support

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win2000 conections
by David C Baumgardner 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Hello fellow toasters, I just got my first win2000 box. I have ten network drives connected to my NetApp. The CIFS sessions on the NetApp (5.3.6r2)is showing ten separate sessions. My NT4.0 boxes show only one connection with ten shares. Anyone know what is going on with the win2000 box? is this normal? David Baumgardner CAD/CAM Administrator Container Engineering 419.247.8274

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Re: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by FPS France 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

FPS France Just to let everyone interested in know : - we firstly would make the migration with snapmirror but we figured out that migrating 14x18Gb disks to 7x36Gb disk was impossible (a 13x18G volume - with one 18G spare beside - is tiny larger than a 6x36G volume - just 9G greater :) - so we used ndmp through tapes because we were not sure enought of the NdmpCopy reliability - may I find a tool to validate NdmpCopy in our lab ? :) - when the migration was successful, we installed Snapmirror and obtain a throughput of 20Mb/s :) systems were 5.3.7R3 and models, two F740. Thank you for all your mail. CU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van Agt, Cyril" <cvanagt(a)netapp.com> To: "Fox, Adam" <Adam.Fox(a)netapp.com>; "'FPS France'" <fpsfrance(a)fps.fr> Cc: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler(a)netapp.com> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:40 AM Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? Correct. Good use of the WWW ; and a refresh for you old French... ;-) Cyril PS : FPS is a NetApp Partner in France. -----Original Message----- From: Fox, Adam Sent: jeudi 28 juin 2001 00:46 To: Van Agt, Cyril; 'FPS France' Cc: Mohler, Jeff Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? I think this is a close English translation (thanks to Altavista's babelfish service) In English: Me I saw SnapMirror making of the 55 MB/s between two F840 via Gigabit. But I do not have experience with of F630 I think that SnapMirror is the best solution in any event. I think that SnapMirror can " be rented " for a migration... Call me if you wish to discuss it. For Jeff and I who aren't up on our French. :) -- Adam > -----Original Message----- > From: Van Agt, Cyril > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:29 PM > To: 'FPS France' > Cc: Mohler, Jeff; Fox, Adam > Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > Moi j'ai vu SnapMirror faire du 55 MB/s entre deux F840 via Gigabit. > Mais je n'ai pas d'expérience avec du F630 :-) > > Je pense que SnapMirror est la meilleure solution de toute façon. > Je pense que SnapMirror peut se "louer" pour une migration... > Appelez-moi si vous désirez en discuter. > > Cyril Van Agt > ============================================================== > Cyril Van Agt mailto:cvanagt@netapp.com > Systems Engineer http://www.netapp.com/ > Network Appliance France Phone: +33 1.55.20.18.48 > 42, quai du Point du Jour Fax: +33 1.55.20.18.01 > F-92100 BOULOGNE Cell: +33 6.08.85.38.85 > ============================================================== > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] > Sent: mercredi 27 juin 2001 23:24 > To: Fox, Adam; 'FPS France'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > Myself..I havent seen col copy/ndmpcopy/snapmirror do much > over 18-22Mb/sec depending on platform. > > If I had a free hour Id love to go into my Lab and prove > myself wrong, but I wont be able to until at least tomorrow > if anyone is interested in some data between some 880s. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:46 PM > To: 'FPS France'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > I guess I'm not sure what a 'perfect' 10BT connection speed is > and so the comparisons confuse me. > > By my calculations: > > 10Mb 1MB 1GB 60s 60 min > ---- ------- ------ ------- --------- = 4.39 GB/hr. > 1s 8Mb 1024MB 1 min 1 hr > > This is 10BT at it's maximum throughput...not counting for > protocols, etc. > > So let's look at 36 GB/hour using the same method: > > 36GB 1024 MB 8Mb 1 hr 1 min > ----- ------------ ------ ------- ---------- = 81.92 Mb/s > 1 hr 1 GB 1MB 60 min 60 sec > > So you're a little under a "perfect" 100BT from my calcuations. > Not great, but not as bad as I read it to be..and 18X better > than 10BT. > > If the purpose is to reduce downtime (perfectly resonable) then > perhaps you need something that can do incremental changes > instead of doing it in one shot. > > ndmpcopy can help. It's free and has incremental support even if > it's a little slower, if you can reduce the size of your last > incremental, it won't hurt as much if the data you are trying to > move while you are down is smaller. > > SnapMirror is *great* for this. The only downside is it is not > free. You'll need to work out a deal with your rep if you feel > this is really the way you want to go. > > Just some thoughts. > > -- Adam Fox > NetApp Professional Services, NC > adamfox(a)netapp.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: FPS France [mailto:fpsfrance@fps.fr] > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:20 AM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > We are looking for a high rate migration operation which > > could let us move a > > volume from a disk shelf to another. > > In a first place, we think of using the vol copy command. We > > thaught we > > could easily manage a strong volume copy rate but it appeared > > the rate is > > buggy limited to 36Gb/hour (as if the Filer was copyinbg over > > a 'perfect' > > 10Bas-T interface) : > > http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.72 > 95526.2875209& > resource= > In looking around we found papers dealing with others > interface kinds : > http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.72 95507.2875209 The limit are 25GB/hr over 100Base-T interface, and 28GB/hr over FDDI so less than a 'perfect' 10Base-T interface. (on a F630 Filer :) Reasons given by the NetApp support is the CPU has a bunch of work in calculating optimizations of read and write operations. But I would be sure we are really not strunglled by any other limitations. So here are our two questions : - (just to be sure) did anyone succed in using the vol copy command once and go beyond these limits ? -what is your opinion about that alternative : plug the Filer on a private Giga-ethernet network and make a manual copy (copy -R mnt/nac/vol0 /other_place ) of the whole volume from a shelf to the other. Do you think we could obtain real high rate transfers while keeping the integrity of the volume ? (the volume is a root volume with the "/etc" directory), no special tricks needed (if I use Windows, may I expect ACL modifications) ? I thank you in advance.

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MSSQL on NetApp System
by Lori Gartner 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

We are considering the purchase of a NetApp filer for our SAP system. Our SAP system is running on NT with MSSQL 7.0 database. I am told by NetApp that this is no problem - a great solution! I am told by almost every other NAS (and SAN) solution provider that Microsoft will not support me and that I should put in a SAN system and definitely NOT a NAS system. I would really like to hear from someone who is running MSSQL on a NetApp filer! Thanks in advance! Lori Gartner PS - I can not search the archives on the web because our firewall is blocking port 1999. I apologize if this has been discussed before.

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RE: NDMPcopy without security
by Manley, David 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

> Doh. I realize you probably got this from the ONTAP NDMP source tree, Yup. Thinking about it though, I'm guessing that these env variables probably only apply to DAR and not ndmpcopy. Sorry, dave -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger To: Jeffrey Krueger Cc: Manley, David; 'ndmp-users(a)netapp.com '; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com ' Sent: 6/29/01 5:49 PM Subject: Re: NDMPcopy without security Doh. I realize you probably got this from the ONTAP NDMP source tree, not from JNDMPcopy. Thats what I get for trying to be a smart ass. =) -- Jeff On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 05:43:11PM -0700, Jeffrey Krueger wrote: > Hmmm... not bad. I guess JNDMPcopy has some hidden goodies. Thanks for > the tip Dave, we'll test it out in our lab and see if it does what we > need. > > Anybody want to volunteer some official documentation on the *full* list of > NDMP environment variables implemented in ONTAP and a description of their > use? > > -- Jeff > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 05:05:32PM -0700, Manley, David wrote: > > Hi - > > > > Not sure who is around to read your message at Netapp before the holiday, > > but if there is anyone that knows a better answer, please pass it along. > > > > grepping through what ndmp is passing by default to dump reveals: > > > > dump.java: default_env.put("NO_ACLS", "N"); > > dump.java: default_env.put("EXTRACT_ACL", "Y"); > > > > So I'd assume you could flip these, not that I've personally tried it. > > > > -dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeffrey Krueger > > To: ndmp-users(a)netapp.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Sent: 6/29/01 4:38 PM > > Subject: NDMPcopy without security > > > > Does anyone know of an NDMP environment variable or other method to > > prevent > > NDMPcopy from restoring UNIX permissions or NTFS ACL's? > > > > We would like to migrate some data by first doing a full copy *with* > > ACL's, > > then substitute local group SID's on the destination, and finally resume > > incremental updates *without* updating our already "fixed" destination > > ACL's. > > > > The benefit of this approach is that SID substitution across a large > > qtree/volume could take a long period of time (hours/days). We'd rather > > do > > that pre-cutover when users are not impacted the during the actual > > migration when we make the source data read-only or inaccessible. > > > > Any ideas? The NDMP v3 spec doesn't mention any environment variables > > for > > this and I can't find any NetApp documentation on what NDMP environment > > variables they use and their purpose. Note: Our solution must be > > NDMPcopy > > based. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- Jeff > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---- > > Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com > > Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 > > Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 > > QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com > > > > To remove yourself from the ndmp-users(a)ndmp.org mailing list, > > send mail to <majordomo(a)netapp.com> with the following > > command in the BODY of your email message: > > unsubscribe dl-ndmp-users [your email address] > > >

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RE: NDMPcopy without security
by Manley, David 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

Hi - Not sure who is around to read your message at Netapp before the holiday, but if there is anyone that knows a better answer, please pass it along. grepping through what ndmp is passing by default to dump reveals: dump.java: default_env.put("NO_ACLS", "N"); dump.java: default_env.put("EXTRACT_ACL", "Y"); So I'd assume you could flip these, not that I've personally tried it. -dave -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger To: ndmp-users(a)netapp.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: 6/29/01 4:38 PM Subject: NDMPcopy without security Does anyone know of an NDMP environment variable or other method to prevent NDMPcopy from restoring UNIX permissions or NTFS ACL's? We would like to migrate some data by first doing a full copy *with* ACL's, then substitute local group SID's on the destination, and finally resume incremental updates *without* updating our already "fixed" destination ACL's. The benefit of this approach is that SID substitution across a large qtree/volume could take a long period of time (hours/days). We'd rather do that pre-cutover when users are not impacted the during the actual migration when we make the source data read-only or inaccessible. Any ideas? The NDMP v3 spec doesn't mention any environment variables for this and I can't find any NetApp documentation on what NDMP environment variables they use and their purpose. Note: Our solution must be NDMPcopy based. Thanks! -- Jeff -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com To remove yourself from the ndmp-users(a)ndmp.org mailing list, send mail to <majordomo(a)netapp.com> with the following command in the BODY of your email message: unsubscribe dl-ndmp-users [your email address]

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NDMP restores
by Fayek, Ahmed 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

Hi all i wonder about restoring from NDMP. i tried to restore to a different destination then the NDMP host (netapp) from which i took the backup. the different destination was a folder in the master server machine. restore failed. what do you think the problem is ? Best regards Ahmed

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NDMPcopy without security
by Jeffrey Krueger 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Does anyone know of an NDMP environment variable or other method to prevent NDMPcopy from restoring UNIX permissions or NTFS ACL's? We would like to migrate some data by first doing a full copy *with* ACL's, then substitute local group SID's on the destination, and finally resume incremental updates *without* updating our already "fixed" destination ACL's. The benefit of this approach is that SID substitution across a large qtree/volume could take a long period of time (hours/days). We'd rather do that pre-cutover when users are not impacted the during the actual migration when we make the source data read-only or inaccessible. Any ideas? The NDMP v3 spec doesn't mention any environment variables for this and I can't find any NetApp documentation on what NDMP environment variables they use and their purpose. Note: Our solution must be NDMPcopy based. Thanks! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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replacement faceplate for F330?
by Bill Bradford 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Anybody know where I can get a replacement faceplate and/or drive-bay cover for a F330? Even a yellow one off a 220 would work; just wanting something other than the tan/putty one on this preproduction/internal unit. bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

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F85 Vs 740
by Dion, Mark D 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I'm a NetApp newbie looking for feedback from experience users of these boxes. I just ordered a F85, but because of non availability of F85's was offered a 740 instead. I'm not as concerned w/ scalability as I am w/ performance. The data that it will host is under a 100GB now and should grow much beyond 200GB. The F85 that I ordered has 12 36GB drives which I figure will leave me w/ ~280GB of usable space. There are 120 NT 4 workstations and a handful of UNIX boxes on this network. The majority of the data will be CIFS, some NFS and HTTP. I plan on moving all of the users home folders and shared data to the filer. The connectivity of the servers and filer will be at 100Mb and the workstations are at 10Mb. Any feedback would be appreciated. Mark

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rackmount kit parts
by Bill Bradford 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Anybody know where I can get: 1. Rackmount slide kit for F330. I'd like to be able to properly mount this stuff. 8-) and 2. Rackmount braces/brackets for a DEC BA350 storageworks shelf ? Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

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F760 Cluster question when using ATM
by David Lockwood 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I am trying to work out how to configure an F760 cluster and appear to be running out of slots. The main connection from the user community to the filer heads is via ATM, for a cluster I am told I need 2 ATM cards for each head in an active passive configuration, the passive connection taking on the identity of the 'failed' (heaven forbid) filer. Now, due to the number of disks required for data storage I need two FCAL loops per filer, 4 required in each head for failover. I need 1x 100Mbit ethernet connection to connect directly to a second cluster for mirroring and 2x 100Mbit direct connections to Unix servers for Oracle database access. The F760 has 9 slots. I can use slots as follows: Slot 1 Quad (or dual ethernet) Slots 2 and 3 for ATM Slots 4,6,7 for FCAL cards Slot 8 for Cluster Card Slot 9 for NVRAM It appears I cannot use Slot 5 for any type of card other than a connection to a tape device! Can I fail the ATM connection over to a 100Mbit ethernet slot, if I use a quad ethernet card then there would be a connection free. This would free up Slot 3 for the fourth FCAL card. Does anyone have any ideas on this and how we can get it all to fit. Before anyone suggests it the answer is no I cannot look at the 840's just yet! Thanks in advance David ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For further information on Benetton Formula 1 visit our web site at www.benettonf1.com. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please destroy and notify Benetton Formula on +44 1608678000." ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Oracle on NetApp - opinions/experiences requested
by Neil Stichbury 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

I'm one of a small team that supports a SUN6500 environment with Oracle 7 on a 760 Filer. The interface is dual Gigabit Ethernet fiber using round-robin. The cards are SBus and although performance is good we intend fitting PCI cards. Solaris 2.6 and 6.01 on the filer. Initially there were performance issues but the logfiles were moved to local disk (18GB mirror), Oracle tuned a bit and it goes like a rocket. Supporting approx 1400 users. Snapshots with hotbackup mean that availability is almost 24x7. Netapp whitepapers on 'Oracle on the filer' are a good starting point. Can't recall any 'negative' experiences actually !. Regards, Neil Stichbury gen-i Limited New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kennedy [mailto:jlkennedy@amcc.com] Sent: Saturday, 23 June 2001 07:38 To: NDMP List Subject: Oracle on NetApp - opinions/experiences requested Of those who run Oracle on Netapp, how do you feel about it? I recently received an e-mail in which a Sun rep stated they gave up running Oracle on NetApp over a year ago. "Gave up" implies there were issues that were not easily overcome. According to NetApp, Ontap is "really a database file system". The technical specs on Ontap seem to back this up, but many people shy away from the idea. Granted, most of the people knocking the idea are other storage vendors or VAR's but some concern in the admin community I've spoken with revolve around NetApp being NAS and not DAFS or SAN. I'm looking for experiences, both positive and negative, from anyone doing this. Thanks. -- ===================== Jeff Kennedy Unix Administrator AMCC jlkennedy(a)amcc.com This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal http://www.gen-i.co.nz This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal http://www.gen-i.co.nz

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Re: [Veritas-bu] NDMP Restores
by W. Curtis Preston 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Grant, Thanks for the information. I'd like to comment on a few things. First, let me say that I am a fan of NDMP, as it is giving us a valid solution for backing up all these NetApps I keep seeing everywhere. ;) Before valid NDMP server and client software was in place, all we had was NFS. I have a lot of respect for NetApp and the other backup and recovery options you have (Snapshots, SnapMirror, etc.), but I would like this one issue addressed. At 11:45 AM 6/27/2001 -0700, Melvin, Grant wrote: > NetApp's dump is no stranger to this, we have added support > for qtree metadata, NT ACLs, Unicode, NT Streams. However, a > standard BSD restore compatible application such as Solaris' > ufsrestore can still restore the data, but will only restore > NFS attributes. So should you have zero filers in 10 years > (heaven forbid) and a pile of NDMP/dump tapes to restore from > then as long as you have access to a dump compatible restore > program you should be able to manually retrieve your data. The key for the original poster to understand is the word _manually_. This means that you can load the tape into a Solaris box (or any box that can read BSD dump, such as HP, AIX, Linux), do some manual tape manipulation, and be able to restore the data (without the NT-specific info). This is a far cry from being able to point and click your restores into existence. > Legato's BudTool product proved that NetApp data could be > restored on non-NetApp storage either in a disaster recovery > scenario or because that is what the customer wants. We'd like > to think that some if not all of the current 7 NDMP-compliant > backup software applications that support NetApp could add the > same capability. Yes, they could, and I wish they would. I wonder if some of us should just write a tool that does that? Hmmm.. Gears churning.... I wonder if we could figure out a way to feed these tapes to AMANDA, and have AMANDA automate the restores. Or just write our own utility... Hmm.... Anyone interested in this project? > Marion asks for a standard backup tape format that can be > interchanged between NDMP-compliant vendors and we applaud > her for it. However, that is beyond the current scope of the > NDMP community or the SNIA Backup working group in general. > > We think its going to take an awful lot of persuading to get > all the current backup software vendors to define a single > format and then have all the possible system vendors support > it. Most companies have chosen their solution based on > trying to differentiate themselves from all the others and > we see that continuing for some time. Yes, it would take some doing to accomplish that. However, we've got to start somewhere. My biggest issue with NDMP is that it allows the OS vendor (in this case NetApp) to determine the backup format. I understand that it would be a lot of work to get this accomplished, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Trying to differentiate yourself in the backup world is a bad thing. (I submit for your perusal IRIX's XFSDUMP.) I'm glad to hear that NetApps tapes can at least be read by a dump-knowledgeable box. But you're not the only vendor out there. Yes, I know that it says right in the V5 spec that backup format is out of scope. Yes, I know that getting a bunch of vendors to get together is not an easy thing. But I'll keep saying that this should be in scope until somebody listens: OS-SPECIFIC BACKUP COMMANDS BAD I do wish that Veritas would make their multiplexed backup format a little more open, and make a command that can easily read a NetBackup multiplexed tape if NetBackup is dead, but at least their backup format is the same on every box. The idea of going back to the days when I had Solaris, HP, and Ultrix dump tapes, and 3B2 cpio tapes, and VAX backup tapes gives me chills. And, given the upcoming prominence of the NAS industry, we may have just that. (Assuming you're in a shop that has more than one NAS vendor.) That would stink. Anybody that agree with me, feel free to send a "me too" message. --- W. Curtis Preston Principal Consultant for Storage Designs, your storage experts Webmaster: http://www.backupcentral.com Phone: 760 653 1007

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RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ?
by Mohler, Jeff 27 Jun '01

27 Jun '01

Myself..I havent seen col copy/ndmpcopy/snapmirror do much over 18-22Mb/sec depending on platform. If I had a free hour Id love to go into my Lab and prove myself wrong, but I wont be able to until at least tomorrow if anyone is interested in some data between some 880s. -----Original Message----- From: Fox, Adam [mailto:Adam.Fox@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:46 PM To: 'FPS France'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? I guess I'm not sure what a 'perfect' 10BT connection speed is and so the comparisons confuse me. By my calculations: 10Mb 1MB 1GB 60s 60 min ---- ------- ------ ------- --------- = 4.39 GB/hr. 1s 8Mb 1024MB 1 min 1 hr This is 10BT at it's maximum throughput...not counting for protocols, etc. So let's look at 36 GB/hour using the same method: 36GB 1024 MB 8Mb 1 hr 1 min ----- ------------ ------ ------- ---------- = 81.92 Mb/s 1 hr 1 GB 1MB 60 min 60 sec So you're a little under a "perfect" 100BT from my calcuations. Not great, but not as bad as I read it to be..and 18X better than 10BT. If the purpose is to reduce downtime (perfectly resonable) then perhaps you need something that can do incremental changes instead of doing it in one shot. ndmpcopy can help. It's free and has incremental support even if it's a little slower, if you can reduce the size of your last incremental, it won't hurt as much if the data you are trying to move while you are down is smaller. SnapMirror is *great* for this. The only downside is it is not free. You'll need to work out a deal with your rep if you feel this is really the way you want to go. Just some thoughts. -- Adam Fox NetApp Professional Services, NC adamfox(a)netapp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: FPS France [mailto:fpsfrance@fps.fr] > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:20 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Vol copy max speed ? alternatives ? > > > Hi everyone, > > We are looking for a high rate migration operation which > could let us move a > volume from a disk shelf to another. > In a first place, we think of using the vol copy command. We > thaught we > could easily manage a strong volume copy rate but it appeared > the rate is > buggy limited to 36Gb/hour (as if the Filer was copyinbg over > a 'perfect' > 10Bas-T interface) : > http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.72 95526.2875209& resource= In looking around we found papers dealing with others interface kinds : http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=3.0.7295507.2875209 The limit are 25GB/hr over 100Base-T interface, and 28GB/hr over FDDI so less than a 'perfect' 10Base-T interface. (on a F630 Filer :) Reasons given by the NetApp support is the CPU has a bunch of work in calculating optimizations of read and write operations. But I would be sure we are really not strunglled by any other limitations. So here are our two questions : - (just to be sure) did anyone succed in using the vol copy command once and go beyond these limits ? -what is your opinion about that alternative : plug the Filer on a private Giga-ethernet network and make a manual copy (copy -R mnt/nac/vol0 /other_place ) of the whole volume from a shelf to the other. Do you think we could obtain real high rate transfers while keeping the integrity of the volume ? (the volume is a root volume with the "/etc" directory), no special tricks needed (if I use Windows, may I expect ACL modifications) ? I thank you in advance.

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