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13531 discussions

Deleting data on NetApp.
by Israel, Meital 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

Hi All, Does anyone know a utility to format the NetApp disks without being able to unformat it? Thanks, ************************************** Meital

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RE: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different?
by Clawson, Simon 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

Yes, I took account of this. The file size is normally on the - rather than the + side tho. Also, I am running du -s below the top level, doing like for like comparisons of all sub directories. Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Leonard, Roger [mailto:Roger.Leonard@marconi.com] > Sent: Monday July 2001 13:22 > To: 'Clawson, Simon' > Subject: RE: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different? > > > it will put a restoresymboltable file in the target dir which > can be quite > large. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clawson, Simon [mailto:simon_clawson@mentorg.com] > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 8:11 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different? > > > I ran an NDMP copy on my filer to take some qtrees from one volume to > another. When I ran du -s on each directory the results were > different in > most cases. > > The question I have is - > Is NDMP copy the tool for the job, and how do I verify the > results once I > have run it? > > Any ideas? > > Simon > > Simon Clawson > HDS Team Systems Administrator > Mentor Graphics Uk > Rivergate > London Road > Newbury > Berkshire > RG14 2QB > <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>> >

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du -s after ndmpcopy - why are the filesizes different?
by Clawson, Simon 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

I ran an NDMP copy on my filer to take some qtrees from one volume to another. When I ran du -s on each directory the results were different in most cases. The question I have is - Is NDMP copy the tool for the job, and how do I verify the results once I have run it? Any ideas? Simon Simon Clawson HDS Team Systems Administrator Mentor Graphics Uk Rivergate London Road Newbury Berkshire RG14 2QB <<Clawson, Simon.vcf>>

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Honeycutt, Michael 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

Try this link. http://www.highground.com/ <http://www.highground.com/> FYI, this company is a subsidary of Sun Microsystems. They can arrange a free demo if you are interested. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax

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how to manage entries in the auditlog
by Hannes Herret 09 Jul '01

09 Jul '01

hi folks, anyone knows the behaviour, that the opened java performance tool from na_admin logs in the auditlog every few seconds. the auditlog grows and grows ..... important information 'vanishes' in the df-loggings. now the question: is it possible to disable the logging for the performance-tool? if not, maybe this useless logging will be disabled in the next ontap-release. cu hannes

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RE: ndmpcopy levels
by McCarthy, Tim 06 Jul '01

06 Jul '01

If you use jndmpcopy, or ndmpcopy which has the "level i" option compiled into it, then you simply specify "level i" instead of your level 0 or 1 or whatever. This "level i" is maintained separately from the the regular dumps and ndmpcopy. --tmac -----Original Message----- From: Lance R Bailey [mailto:baileyla@pmc-sierra.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:14 PM To: Roger.Leonard(a)marconi.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: ndmpcopy levels standard berk-dump: level 1 will catch all since level 0. you can do this repeatedly. level 2 will catch all since levels 1 or 0. you can do this repeatedly. level 3 will catch all since levels 2, 1 or 0. you can do this repeatedly. you can run a level 1 *AFTER* and catch all since the last level 0. (i'm not sure why you'd do that, but you can :-) you can run a level 2 without running a level 1 between it and the level 0. in fact, you can running a level n dump requires only a level 0 to have been run previously, not level n-1, not level n-2 and so on ndmpcopy level 1 will catch all since level 0. you can do ONE level 1. level 2 will catch all since level 1. you can do ONE level 2. level 3 will catch all since level 2. you can do ONE level 3. you cannot run level 3 after level 1, you must run a level 2 first and then the level 3. if you try to run multiple level 1's you get an error saying that the next level should be level 2. ndmpcopy will abort the ndmp sessions and if you are running 5.3.6 (or 5.3.6R1P2) you might have trouble running further ndmp activities without a reboot. if you try to skip level n, then you get an error saying that the next level should be level n. ndmpcopy will abort the ndmp sessions ... you need to run a level 0, then a 1, then a 2, then a 3 and so on. you get 10 dumps in total. sorry. now, snapmirror will happily do hundreds of incrementals, but not ndmpcopy. the "enhanced" ndmpcopy that you see talked about on the list will do more. -- email: lance_bailey(a)pmc-sierra.com box: Lance R. Bailey, unix Administrator vox: +1 604 415 6646 PMC-Sierra, Inc fax: +1 604 415 6151 105-8555 Baxter Place http://www.lydia.org/~zaphod Burnaby BC, V5A 4V7 Are there any men ladybugs? -- Libby, Grace Under Fire Leonard, Roger wrote: > >i am attempting to use ndmpcopy to migrate data between filers which are >being backed up with Netbackup NDMP and it appears as though they are >confusing each other because it looks like both reference the etc/dumpdates >file on the source filers. can anyone sanity-check me on the various >levels? i assume that a level 9 picks up all changes since the last level >0. so i could do a level 0 and then multiple level 9's until i was ready to >cut over. so in my case i could do a level 0, turn off netback backups and >nfs and cifs and then do a level 9 to cut over all changes. any help is >appreciated > >Roger D. Leonard >

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Re: soft shutdown; power management
by Andrew Siegel 06 Jul '01

06 Jul '01

Chris Lamb wrote: > > Well, short of offering a 'poweroff' PROM command, or a 'halt -poweroff' > option to ONTAP, you might look into managed power strips, so you could > halt the filers from the serial console, then telnet to the power strip > and have it switch off the AC. I've never used 'em, but the prospect is > intriguing... I'm sure a web search would point out some vendors to look > at, unless others on the list have implemented something like this and > have some feedback. Some remote-switchable power strip vendors: http://www.baytechdcd.com http://www.servertech.com http://www.pulizzi.com

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ndmpcopy levels
by Leonard, Roger 06 Jul '01

06 Jul '01

i am attempting to use ndmpcopy to migrate data between filers which are being backed up with Netbackup NDMP and it appears as though they are confusing each other because it looks like both reference the etc/dumpdates file on the source filers. can anyone sanity-check me on the various levels? i assume that a level 9 picks up all changes since the last level 0. so i could do a level 0 and then multiple level 9's until i was ready to cut over. so in my case i could do a level 0, turn off netback backups and nfs and cifs and then do a level 9 to cut over all changes. any help is appreciated Roger D. Leonard

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/etc/oldmaps and NetApp dumps
by Chris Thompson 06 Jul '01

06 Jul '01

Regulars will recall the thread back in March-April about the /etc/oldmaps files and the way that ONTAP 6.x uses them (or is supposed to) to make sure files moved into a tree being dumped get included in incremental dumps even if their ctime/mtime's haven't been updated. And they may even remember that my last contribution (2 April) was > So either I didn't understand after all, or this splendid new facility > has bugs in it ... :-( I pursued this with NetApp, and Stephen Manley did some great work on it, and the problem I was having is now understood. It's burt 45289 if you want to add it to your BugWatch list. It arises if you use "dump" on a path which is a whole volume or qtree, but also use the "l" option so that only part of it is actually being dumped. If it wasn't for the "l" option, nothing could be moved into the area being dumped without it being given a new ctime, and so in that case ignoring the /etc/oldmaps files would be a correct optimisation (and that's what it does), but it becomes a false one with "l" present in the options. Many thanks again to NetApp support for their help in tracking this down. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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soft shutdown; power management
by Todd C. Merrill 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

Anyway to do a "soft shutdown" on a filer? By this I mean, pushing a button on the box that will gracefully shut it down. Many SGI systems, some HP systems, some pc BIOSes will initiate a graceful shutdown of the system if the power button is pressed and released rapidly. If not, may I ask this be considered in a future design? With appropriate safeguards, like an option "safeshutdown" to enable or disable this feature. Or, perhaps a way to turn off power to a filer remotely, like the Sun Netras have with their LOM capabilities. We had some power problems this weekend, and being able to tell someone over the phone "just push <this> button" [0] would have been preferable to driving in to shutdown a bunch of filers. I could have halted them remotely via a serial console server, but when the power started bouncing up and down, I didn't want the filers to start back up and then come down hard again. [0] Telling this person, who was not computer savvy in the least, to telnet in, execute 'halt' and then power off the two power supplies on the back of the filer and disk shelves was not within the realm of possibility. Until next time... The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Jay Newton 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

What was the pricing like for SRM and the Prospector add-on? What is your infrastructure? -----Original Message----- From: Loux, Linda [mailto:LLoux@rii.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:58 PM To: 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports We have been using SRM for some time. While it provides good information for overall growth and predictions, I was unable to get the level of detail and customization in the reports that met our needs. I have recently received Prospector, and am preparing for use of that product. I'll be happy to provide additional feedback when I've had more time to see how it works! Linda Loux Systems Administrator Rosetta Inpharmatics -----Original Message----- From: Joe Luchtenberg [mailto:joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:21 AM To: 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports On paper HighGround's SRM Infrastructure Suite looks interesting ( http://www.highground.com/PRODUCTS/infra_suite.htm <http://www.highground.com/PRODUCTS/infra_suite.htm> ). Anybody using it? Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. 757-858-0600 757-285-1223 (mobile) 757-858-0606 (fax) joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com www.data-line.com -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax **************************************************************************** This e-mail message is the property of Rosetta Inpharmatics and may contain information that is confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying, or communication of the contents of this message is prohibited. If this message was received in error, please forward a copy to mail_admin(a)rii.com and delete the message and any attachments from your computer. Thank you. ****************************************************************************

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Loux, Linda 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

We have been using SRM for some time. While it provides good information for overall growth and predictions, I was unable to get the level of detail and customization in the reports that met our needs. I have recently received Prospector, and am preparing for use of that product. I'll be happy to provide additional feedback when I've had more time to see how it works! Linda Loux Systems Administrator Rosetta Inpharmatics -----Original Message----- From: Joe Luchtenberg [mailto:joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:21 AM To: 'Jay Newton'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports On paper HighGround's SRM Infrastructure Suite looks interesting ( http://www.highground.com/PRODUCTS/infra_suite.htm <http://www.highground.com/PRODUCTS/infra_suite.htm> ). Anybody using it? Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. 757-858-0600 757-285-1223 (mobile) 757-858-0606 (fax) joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com www.data-line.com -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax **************************************************************************** This e-mail message is the property of Rosetta Inpharmatics and may contain information that is confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure, copying, or communication of the contents of this message is prohibited. If this message was received in error, please forward a copy to mail_admin(a)rii.com and delete the message and any attachments from your computer. Thank you. ****************************************************************************

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Joe Luchtenberg 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

On paper HighGround's SRM Infrastructure Suite looks interesting ( http://www.highground.com/PRODUCTS/infra_suite.htm <http://www.highground.com/PRODUCTS/infra_suite.htm> ). Anybody using it? Joe Joe Luchtenberg Dataline, Inc. 757-858-0600 757-285-1223 (mobile) 757-858-0606 (fax) joe.luchtenberg(a)data-line.com www.data-line.com -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax

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Re: 36F disk
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

Ferd: Your personal attacks in a public forum are unfair; I earn my living honorably, as I would imagine you do. Please give us a break: we are brokers and re-sellers of used computer equipment and don't pretend to be anything else. We have many NetApp customers that have benefited from doing business with us. Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com In a message dated 7/4/01 9:48:43 PM Central Daylight Time, ferd_berfl(a)yahoo.com writes: > Mr. Fischmann, without citing your numerous, repetitive, emails, could we > qualify all your emails to have the same fundamental message: > > Subject: ask Network Appliance for software transferability (and consider > doing business with union computer exchange) > > Given the fact that your emails are incredibly repetitive, do you have > anything at all to add to this mailing list other than the repetitive > exhortation about transferable software licenses? BTW, I take it that your > repeated exhortations are not generated simply out of the goodness of your > heart and your warm feeling for all Network Appliance customers, but perhaps > are motivated by some financial agenda that benefits you and Union Computer > Exchange, Inc.? > > How about anytime you want to repeat your same email again, just writing > "yada yada software license yada yada transferable yada yada leasing company > yada yada union computer exchange yada yada" and we'll know what you mean to > say. > > Thanks for your humanistic warm concern for us all.

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RE: Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Phillips, Steve 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

Have you taken a look at DataFabric Manager? http://www.netapp.com/products/filer/datafabric.html -----Original Message----- From: Jay Newton [mailto:jnewton@chkenergy.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:28 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Looking for drive space utilization reports Importance: Low I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax

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best configuration Netapp,NetBackup
by Fayek, Ahmed 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

Hello all, does anybody have experience with using NetBackup with Netapp filers (using NDMP) ? This time it's a question about best configuration. let's say we have 4 volumes in one filer and 1 volume in the second filer. so we need to backup the 5 volumes. i think about creating 2 classes, one per filer. and only one volume pool to serve both filers. but in this way each set of tapes (group) will take the backup from all the 5 volumes sequentially. so in this case if i need to restore a file from the 5th volume it will need to go through all the tapes till it reaches it. also what if one tape of this set is damaged, will this make all the set (group) unuseful ? this configuration reduces the number of tapes per group, and it looks simple. but another way appears, to create 2 classes, one per filer (no change) and create one volume pool per netapp volume , so create 5 volume pools, with initially one tape in each and create a scratch pool to serve all the pools in need for tapes. but in this case the number of tapes used will increase. i don't know if it is that serious to choose between the 2 configurations, but i know it may impact all the system in the future. So does anyone have a better idea, or better experience with this stuff ? Appreciate your response Ahmed

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Looking for drive space utilization reports
by Jay Newton 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

I am trying to find a good tool, preferrably Windows-based, that can help me gather statistics on space utilization. I need this for our F840 Filer we currently use, but I would like to be able to use it to look at space usage elsewhere. I'm needing statistics on how much drive space is used, the type of data using it, and which users are putting it there. Anyone out there have any ideas? Jay Newton Systems Engineer Chesapeake Operating 6112-114 (405)810-2683 (405)879-9578 fax

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AW: DS14 disk shelves
by Poellmann, Christoph ISY 1 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

I'd like to refresh a question which has been raised end of may. See below. Is there anyone out there who uses the new DS14 shelves? Any bad experiences (or good ones of course)? I have to decide now wether to increase capacity with 7x72GB in FC9 or with 14x36Gb in DS14. The 36 GB disk approach with DS14 would fit much better in our administration model, but there are the fears: to be one of the first to use them, no field experience etc. Christoph -- INA * Herzogenaurach * Germany fon: 09132 824691 * mobile fon: 0173 5768452 > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Scott Mikusko [mailto:guerilla@concentric.net] > Gesendet am: Dienstag, 29. Mai 2001 21:42 > An: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Betreff: DS14 disk shelves > > > > Anyone out there in toasterland have any of the new DS14 disk shelves? > Trying to get some idea of performance and impressions on the > new units > with people. > > These are the new fibre channel disk shelves that house 14 drives from > Netapp. Seen some basic spcs on them, but wondered if anyone has > installed and run these on any F700/800 series units. > > -Scott > >

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RE: 36F disk
by Andrew Siegel 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

> How about anytime you want to repeat your same email again, just writing > "yada yada software license yada yada transferable yada yada leasing company > yada yada union computer exchange yada yada" and we'll know what you mean to > say. That's really rude. The guy is doing us *all* a favor by reminding us that NetApp double dips on the software licensing fee when a machine is is sold on the secondary market. This bears periodic repetition.

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Re: 36F disk
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 05 Jul '01

05 Jul '01

Debbie: Your concern regarding the usability of your NetApp disk drives on other systems notwithstanding, your best investment protection on your NetApp system would be to ask your NetApp salesperson for software license transferability before you buy your next machine (NFS, CIFS, Snap products, etc.) Further, in the event you decide to lease a filer, you might want to select a leasing company that has NetApp's permission to freely transfer software licenses on the resale of used NetApp systems -- they should be able to provide you significantly better rates. Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com In a message dated 7/3/01 12:49:37 PM Central Daylight Time, Debbie.Lane(a)intermec.com writes: > Can a 36F Fibre Channel disk be used in a system that is not NetApp? I am > asking because the decision to buy or lease was based on the belief that if > at some point we wanted to discontinue using NetApp the disks could be used > elsewhere. > > Thanks for your help. > > --Debbie

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FTP
by Peter Gauthier 04 Jul '01

04 Jul '01

Running 536r2 and 61r1 on my filers and I'm unable to get FTP working, the error is exactly like bug 33218. I have set up my qtree secuiry on vol0 to unix and it made no difference. The other message I get back is: 530 /netservice/ftp: no such file or directory. Then these two directories do exsis and permissions are 777 rwx,rwx,rwx. My passwd file is setup as showen in the man pages and the ftpd.enable is on. Anybody have any tricks

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RE: An idea on migrating NTFS data
by Tom "Mad Dog" Yergeau 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

<< Here's an even simpler idea: use global groups to assign permissions. >> You can't do that in a large multi-domain enterprise. Take for example a growing company that uses a new domain for each country. (Back in NT4 days this would be typical and even today with Win2K sites, for security boundary reasons a company might still use a different domain for different countries/depts./areas/whatever.) Files are shared among the different sites. FolderRoot | |-----Folder1 | | | |-------Folder1.1 | |-----Folder2 | | | |-------Folder2.1 | | | | |---Folder2.1.1 | |-----Folder3 ( | | | |-------Folder3.1 Let's say you grant a local group, FilerUsers, access to Folder1. The groups "US-Users, UK-Users, DE-Users" belong to FilerUsers so groups from all three countries can access it Folder 1.1 has some sensitive information in it and only US-Users should be able to access it, FilerUsers access is removed and US-Users access is granted. Now, let's say the same scenario applies to Folder2 and Folder2.1, but instead, Folder2 has access granted to the global groups US-Users, UK-Users and DE-Users. Folder2.1 only has US-Users access. Now, along comes, oh, Canada office. To add access appropriate to folder 1 and all subfolders, you just add CA-Users to the FilerUsers local group. Done. Poof. That's it. Nothing else to do. Folder2, you have to reset ALL the ACLs on Folder2 and all subfolders. Uh-oh. Problem. How do you know which files and folders have more restrictive ACLs? In this example there is only one sub folder with customized ACLs, but in real life, there could be a very large number of files and folders. You just totally ruined the ACLs on all of them in order to give CA-Users access. With Win2K-style ACLs and the inheritance model they use, the problem might be a little less of a problem, but only slightly less. I can go into scenarios where the new inheritance wouldn't help but using local groups would (That's why I've got the extra folders up there, but I'm too lazy to keep going at this point!) So, Local Groups are an evil necessity. I've found a product called "SuperCACLS" from Trusted Systems to be very helpful in dealing with problems like this and it's a lot cheaper than the comparable Alita product. But, it does take forever to walk large directory structures and is not ideal. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Conner, Neil [mailto:neil@mbari.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:05 PM To: 'Jeffrey Krueger'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: An idea on migrating NTFS data Here's an even simpler idea: use global groups to assign permissions. Cheers, Neil -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:37 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: An idea on migrating NTFS data We are about to migrate a bunch of data between different filers, among which is some NTFS security style data. The only non-slam-dunk about it is NTFS local groups. Background: We use the Microsoft recommended method of assigning rights to filesystems, that is UGLR (phonetic == Uglier). Users belong to ... Global groups, which belong to ... Local groups, which are assigned access to ... Resources. The problem is that Local groups have a non-global SIDs between machines. That is, each filer assigns its own local SID's to local groups in its /etc/lclgroups.cfg on the root volume. That SID gets moved with the ACL data to the destination, but the destination machine can't resolve its membership with its local groups. The traditional approach to fixing this is using a tool from Aelita or subinacl to traverse the entire destination filesystem (post-migration) and replacing any occurrence of the old SID with that of a new SID for a local group on the destination filer. This is all fine and good, but could take forever. -------- THE IDEA -------- Here's my idea on a better way to do this. Simply shutdown CIFS on the destination machine pre-move and create analogous local group entries with SIDs that match the source. NetApp tech support might not like the idea too much, but it would mean that the same global groups would belong to that SID and thus no filesystem traversing or ACL modification! Ta Da! Unfortunately, we are copying data from more source machines than there are destination machines and we are not copying data per filer - that is some data from filer1 will go to filerA, some to filerB, etc. This means that for my scheme to work, we'd need globally unique local group SID's. Since it appears that ONTAP starts assigning local group SID's at 65536 sequentially, we have lots of conflicting local groups with those lower numbered SID's. To still use the original concept, I had the idea of copying the membership of all the groups on the source filers into new local groups with globally unique SID's. Then run one of the ACL tools to create analogous ACE's for the new group wherever it finds the old one. (This is all done pre-migration) After the migration we simply create local groups on the destination machine with SID's of the new, analogous rights granted group. Has anyone tried something like this before?? Can anyone see any problems with this approach?? How about an alternative approach?? Again, the idea is to prevent the requirement of a filesystem traversal during migration. Thanks in advance!! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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RE: An idea on migrating NTFS data
by Mike Sphar 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

There's a reason MS recommends using local groups. For one thing, under NT, you can't add a group to a global group. I believe they changed this with Win2k, but if the original poster has not yet updated their infrastructure to win2k they may still need to use local groups. This was one of the things MS hammered into you during MCSE training years ago. I don't know if they've changed their tune now. -----Original Message----- From: Conner, Neil [mailto:neil@mbari.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 3:05 PM To: 'Jeffrey Krueger'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: An idea on migrating NTFS data Here's an even simpler idea: use global groups to assign permissions. Cheers, Neil -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:37 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: An idea on migrating NTFS data We are about to migrate a bunch of data between different filers, among which is some NTFS security style data. The only non-slam-dunk about it is NTFS local groups. Background: We use the Microsoft recommended method of assigning rights to filesystems, that is UGLR (phonetic == Uglier). Users belong to ... Global groups, which belong to ... Local groups, which are assigned access to ... Resources. The problem is that Local groups have a non-global SIDs between machines. That is, each filer assigns its own local SID's to local groups in its /etc/lclgroups.cfg on the root volume. That SID gets moved with the ACL data to the destination, but the destination machine can't resolve its membership with its local groups. The traditional approach to fixing this is using a tool from Aelita or subinacl to traverse the entire destination filesystem (post-migration) and replacing any occurrence of the old SID with that of a new SID for a local group on the destination filer. This is all fine and good, but could take forever. -------- THE IDEA -------- Here's my idea on a better way to do this. Simply shutdown CIFS on the destination machine pre-move and create analogous local group entries with SIDs that match the source. NetApp tech support might not like the idea too much, but it would mean that the same global groups would belong to that SID and thus no filesystem traversing or ACL modification! Ta Da! Unfortunately, we are copying data from more source machines than there are destination machines and we are not copying data per filer - that is some data from filer1 will go to filerA, some to filerB, etc. This means that for my scheme to work, we'd need globally unique local group SID's. Since it appears that ONTAP starts assigning local group SID's at 65536 sequentially, we have lots of conflicting local groups with those lower numbered SID's. To still use the original concept, I had the idea of copying the membership of all the groups on the source filers into new local groups with globally unique SID's. Then run one of the ACL tools to create analogous ACE's for the new group wherever it finds the old one. (This is all done pre-migration) After the migration we simply create local groups on the destination machine with SID's of the new, analogous rights granted group. Has anyone tried something like this before?? Can anyone see any problems with this approach?? How about an alternative approach?? Again, the idea is to prevent the requirement of a filesystem traversal during migration. Thanks in advance!! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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RE: An idea on migrating NTFS data
by Conner, Neil 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

Here's an even simpler idea: use global groups to assign permissions. Cheers, Neil -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Krueger [mailto:jkrueger@qualcomm.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:37 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: An idea on migrating NTFS data We are about to migrate a bunch of data between different filers, among which is some NTFS security style data. The only non-slam-dunk about it is NTFS local groups. Background: We use the Microsoft recommended method of assigning rights to filesystems, that is UGLR (phonetic == Uglier). Users belong to ... Global groups, which belong to ... Local groups, which are assigned access to ... Resources. The problem is that Local groups have a non-global SIDs between machines. That is, each filer assigns its own local SID's to local groups in its /etc/lclgroups.cfg on the root volume. That SID gets moved with the ACL data to the destination, but the destination machine can't resolve its membership with its local groups. The traditional approach to fixing this is using a tool from Aelita or subinacl to traverse the entire destination filesystem (post-migration) and replacing any occurrence of the old SID with that of a new SID for a local group on the destination filer. This is all fine and good, but could take forever. -------- THE IDEA -------- Here's my idea on a better way to do this. Simply shutdown CIFS on the destination machine pre-move and create analogous local group entries with SIDs that match the source. NetApp tech support might not like the idea too much, but it would mean that the same global groups would belong to that SID and thus no filesystem traversing or ACL modification! Ta Da! Unfortunately, we are copying data from more source machines than there are destination machines and we are not copying data per filer - that is some data from filer1 will go to filerA, some to filerB, etc. This means that for my scheme to work, we'd need globally unique local group SID's. Since it appears that ONTAP starts assigning local group SID's at 65536 sequentially, we have lots of conflicting local groups with those lower numbered SID's. To still use the original concept, I had the idea of copying the membership of all the groups on the source filers into new local groups with globally unique SID's. Then run one of the ACL tools to create analogous ACE's for the new group wherever it finds the old one. (This is all done pre-migration) After the migration we simply create local groups on the destination machine with SID's of the new, analogous rights granted group. Has anyone tried something like this before?? Can anyone see any problems with this approach?? How about an alternative approach?? Again, the idea is to prevent the requirement of a filesystem traversal during migration. Thanks in advance!! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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An idea on migrating NTFS data
by Jeffrey Krueger 03 Jul '01

03 Jul '01

We are about to migrate a bunch of data between different filers, among which is some NTFS security style data. The only non-slam-dunk about it is NTFS local groups. Background: We use the Microsoft recommended method of assigning rights to filesystems, that is UGLR (phonetic == Uglier). Users belong to ... Global groups, which belong to ... Local groups, which are assigned access to ... Resources. The problem is that Local groups have a non-global SIDs between machines. That is, each filer assigns its own local SID's to local groups in its /etc/lclgroups.cfg on the root volume. That SID gets moved with the ACL data to the destination, but the destination machine can't resolve its membership with its local groups. The traditional approach to fixing this is using a tool from Aelita or subinacl to traverse the entire destination filesystem (post-migration) and replacing any occurrence of the old SID with that of a new SID for a local group on the destination filer. This is all fine and good, but could take forever. -------- THE IDEA -------- Here's my idea on a better way to do this. Simply shutdown CIFS on the destination machine pre-move and create analogous local group entries with SIDs that match the source. NetApp tech support might not like the idea too much, but it would mean that the same global groups would belong to that SID and thus no filesystem traversing or ACL modification! Ta Da! Unfortunately, we are copying data from more source machines than there are destination machines and we are not copying data per filer - that is some data from filer1 will go to filerA, some to filerB, etc. This means that for my scheme to work, we'd need globally unique local group SID's. Since it appears that ONTAP starts assigning local group SID's at 65536 sequentially, we have lots of conflicting local groups with those lower numbered SID's. To still use the original concept, I had the idea of copying the membership of all the groups on the source filers into new local groups with globally unique SID's. Then run one of the ACL tools to create analogous ACE's for the new group wherever it finds the old one. (This is all done pre-migration) After the migration we simply create local groups on the destination machine with SID's of the new, analogous rights granted group. Has anyone tried something like this before?? Can anyone see any problems with this approach?? How about an alternative approach?? Again, the idea is to prevent the requirement of a filesystem traversal during migration. Thanks in advance!! -- Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff Krueger, NetApp CA E-Mail: jeff(a)qualcomm.com Senior Engineer Phone: 858-651-6709 Storage Lead (NAS/SAN) Fax: 858-651-6627 QUALCOMM, Inc. IT Engineering Web: www.qualcomm.com

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