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13515 discussions

RE: where do you usual sell a netapp ?
by Todd Phillips 20 Dec '01

20 Dec '01

Hi Ulf. With the introduction of the F87, and the F85s going for 10k or less, you almost have to give the 720s away. Plus, licenses are not transferable so, that's an additional expense for anyone buying a used filer. Make sure your asking price is in check with current market value. Also, NetApp is being extremely price aggressive these days. Todd Phillips Sr. Systems Engineer Integrated Archive Systems, Inc. Ph: (650) 390-9995 Direct: (650) 528-4687 Cell: (415) 297-5762 Integrated Archive Systems (IAS) is the leading provider of Storage, Backup and Disaster Recovery Solutions. We have extensive experience and expertise in Server High Availability (HA), Clustering, RAID, NAS & SAN, Disaster Recovery & Backup Hardware and Software integration. -----Original Message----- From: Ulf Zimmermann [mailto:ulf@Alameda.net] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:36 PM To: Mike Horwath Cc: Ulf Zimmermann; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: where do you usual sell a netapp ? On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 04:48:52PM -0600, Mike Horwath wrote: > On Mon, Dec 17, 2001 at 01:41:36PM -0800, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > I was wonder where people usual post for sale for netapps. > > Probably going to sell this F720 in a few weeks after > > playing around with it to get more comfortable with > > its software and operation. > > Ebay usually has more than a few... All the NetApp F720 I have seen lately on Ebay have 0 bids on them. I put some of them on watch list, but all of those ended also with 0 bids. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204

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Any horror stories upgrading to Ontap 6.1.1R2
by Maglinger, Paul 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Considering upgrading our 740 to Ontap 6.1.1R2. Any horror stories or words of infinite praise or wisdom? In all honesty 6.0.1R3 has been running like a charm, our firmware is up to date, but our disk firmware is NA02 and the latest and greatest is NA06. Remember, you are unique... just like everyone else! Paul Maglinger A+, CA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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f87
by Sam Howard 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Ok, My fault for falling asleep, but I must have missed the f85 -> f87 transition. Looking at the f87 specs, I can't tell the difference from what I recall for the f85. Whassup with this new box? --Sam

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Re: ownership changing under nfs and unix style qtree
by Rune Bakken 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

neil lehrer <nlehrer(a)ibb.gov> writes: > hi, > > ontap 6.1.1r2 nfs and cifs, nt4 domain and nis. > > i have a user whose dirs and files keep getting their ownership > changed to root and then he can't manipulate the files. he accesses > his files from win nt 4 with an nfs client. What kind of security are you using, unix,ntfs or mixed? The latter one may cause more or less obscure problems. > is this happening because his id is in the nt domain admins group and > administrator is mapped to root in usermap.cfg? if so, what is a good way to > approach this? admins should always have two ids? Just the way NT works in a CIFS/NetApp environment. How does the netapp decide what Hat the admin is working under, as administrator or as self as a normal user? This is a problem I encounter often in a mixed environment. As long as the admin group users are not mixing environment ie just working from the NT world, things work usually OK. Ofcourse I have often a problem as I work in both worlds, and often have to change ownerships of my files to myself on my unix box. >>>>>>>>>>>>.rune -- Rune Bakken "I feel sorry for people who don't drink. System Administrator When they wake up in the morning, that's as Nextra, good as they're going to feel all day." - Telenor Company - Frank Sinatra

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What cache value is what?
by l l 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

What does the "system board memory" value refer to in sysconfig? What does the NVRAM cache refer to? If I were to compute the "cache size" for a filer, which would I chose? I'm looking for the total size of the read and write cache for the filer. Hxu -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http:/…

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SAN technical Mailing list ?
by d ced 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Hi, Is there any good SAN mailing list dealing with technical stuff ??? regards _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Is there a way to tell a drive to do a low level format ?
by Ulf Zimmermann 19 Dec '01

19 Dec '01

Is there a way to tell a FC drive attached to a F720 to perform a low level format of the drive ? -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html

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subcribe
by McDonald, June 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

June McDonald Manager Strategic Alliances Network Appliance 495 E. Java Drive Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Phone: 408-822-3238 Fax: 408-822-4611 email: junem(a)netapp.com <mailto:junem@netapp.com> Data Protection Solutions: http://www.netapp.com/solutions/data_protection.html <http://www.netapp.com/solutions/data_protection.html>

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ownership changing under nfs and unix style qtree
by neil lehrer 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

hi, ontap 6.1.1r2 nfs and cifs, nt4 domain and nis. i have a user whose dirs and files keep getting their ownership changed to root and then he can't manipulate the files. he accesses his files from win nt 4 with an nfs client. is this happening because his id is in the nt domain admins group and administrator is mapped to root in usermap.cfg? if so, what is a good way to approach this? admins should always have two ids? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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RE: Performance and vifs
by Drew O'Donnell 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

Yes I have, It only uses the additional ports when necessary, also you need to be careful how you set up your trunk groups, they are manufacturer defined. We use Foundry switches, and set them up as server based trunk groups. If the trunk is not defined properly on the switch you may also experience this problem. If you have the capability of switching to Gigabit II I recommend it, we had a lot of issues with our quad cards and the trunk groups on the switches. We implemented the Gigabit II cards on our 820 in a single vif with no issues. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Haber, David J. [mailto:David.Haber@vtmednet.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:49 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Performance and vifs I am still having some performance issues but they seem to be better after upgrading to v 6.1.1r2. My question is about vifs. I have a 4 port vif using a quad NIC in an 820 filer. I have ether channel set up on my Cisco 5500 switch. All seems to be ok except it looks like only the first port in the vif is doing any work. Has anyone seen something like this?

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symlink.translations file for cifs
by neil lehrer 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

i read the info in the SAG and don't get the implication. when i set up the symlink for the cifs.home_dir option and did a cd to the symlink i ended up in the correct place and the net use * \\filer\uid worked okay. should i be doing something with the symlink.translations file? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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RE: SME 2000 bug
by Mankovsky, Mike 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

Hi Joe, There was a formatting error in the online bug that caused part of the bug description information to be left out. This online bug has now been refreshed and is available for viewing. Thanks for pointing this issue out, Mike Mankovsky Network Appliance Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Luchtenberg [mailto:joe.luchtenberg@data-line.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:07 AM To: Toasters discussion list (E-mail) Subject: SME 2000 bug Can anybody clarify what Bug #53144 is about? (See http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=53144.) Pertains to MS Exchange 2000 and SnapManager for Exchange. NOW provides no further description but does suggest for a workaround to run eseutil /z. TIA. Joe

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Performance and vifs
by Haber, David J. 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

I am still having some performance issues but they seem to be better after upgrading to v 6.1.1r2. My question is about vifs. I have a 4 port vif using a quad NIC in an 820 filer. I have ether channel set up on my Cisco 5500 switch. All seems to be ok except it looks like only the first port in the vif is doing any work. Has anyone seen something like this?

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Filer backup and BrightStore
by Alek M. Woronow 18 Dec '01

18 Dec '01

Hi everybody, We have problem as following: For NAS backups we used BrightStore software (v. 10.0, build 1170, SP1, by Computer Associates). There is streamer DLT8000 connected to filer (NetApp F-85, DOT 6.1.1R2). NDMP is enabled - switch ON. Bright Store agent is logging into NAS properly, but we get the 'Lost Connection' message after mark volume (vol/vol0). Can it be caused by lack of the streamer? Is it possible use BrightStore to manage backup on NAS? How is it possible to call NDMP commands from BrightStore? Anybody know how use BrightStore to backup filers? Thanks in advance, Aleksander M. Woronow amw(a)polbox.pl aworonow(a)softex.com.pl Softex Data, Poland, Warsaw

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where do you usual sell a netapp ?
by Ulf Zimmermann 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

I was wonder where people usual post for sale for netapps. Probably going to sell this F720 in a few weeks after playing around with it to get more comfortable with its software and operation. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204

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accessing ntfs qtree from nt nfs client
by neil lehrer 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

hi, volume is unix style, qtrees are what ever i set them to, no mixed. i set up an ntfs qtree vol/vol0/smalltest2 full path to userdir is vol/vol0/smalltest2/k/kusr1 there is an export for vol/vol0/smalltest2. kusr1 is the owner of vol/vol0/smalltest2/k/kusr1 and has an acl with full control. for both /smalltest2/k and /smalltest2 everyone has an acl with full control, which should be overkill. RX should be enough. if kusr1 uses an nfs[we haven't moved over to cifs yet, migrating] connection from an nt 4.0 wkstation and tries to save a file into vol/vol0/smalltest2/k/kusr1 the application[word, notepad, etc.] says folder is read only. file name is entered into dir, but no data in file. from a mount on a sun box it looks like this: # ls -al drwxrwxrwx 4 root other 4096 Dec 17 12:47 smalltest2 # cd smalltest2 # ls -al drwxrwxrwx 3 root other 4096 Dec 13 15:43 k # cd k # ls -al drwxrwxrwx 2 kusr1 root 4096 Dec 17 12:08 kusr1 ~~~~~~~~~ "Account Domain not found" is a local grp on the filer that cacls does not understand. F:\>cacls smalltest2 F:\smalltest2 <Account Domain not found>(OI)(IO)F <Account Domain not found>(CI)F Everyone:(OI)(IO)F Everyone:(CI)F F:\>cacls smalltest2\k F:\smalltest2\k domain_name\nlehrer:(OI)(IO)F domain_name\nlehrer:(CI)F Everyone:(OI)(IO)F Everyone:(CI)F <Account Domain not found>(OI)(IO)F <Account Domain not found>(CI)F F:\>cacls smalltest2\k\kusr1 F:\smalltest2\k\kusr1 domain_name\kusr1:(CI)F domain_name\nlehrer:(CI)(special access:) READ_CONTROL SYNCHRONIZE FILE_GENERIC_READ FILE_GENERIC_WRITE FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE FILE_READ_DATA FILE_WRITE_DATA FILE_APPEND_DATA FILE_READ_EA FILE_WRITE_EA FILE_EXECUTE FILE_DELETE_CHILD FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES <Account Domain not found>F domain_name\kusr1:(OI)(IO)F domain_name\nlehrer:(OI)(IO)(special access:) GENERIC_READ GENERIC_WRITE GENERIC_EXECUTE FILE_DELETE_CHILD <Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)(IO)F ontap is 6.1.1r2 access by nt nfs client to our sun servers has always worked fine. anybody have any ideas? netapp has pktt traces, no response yet. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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moving qtrees to new volume
by Leigh David Heyman 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

Does anyone have any advice/experiences/warnings on moving data from one volume to another. We're about to create a new volume on a new shelf, and we want to move about 10 qtrees on to the new volume, and I'm looking to see if anyone has any recommendations on how best to accomplish this quickly, and without altering the data, or metadata? Thanks -Leigh

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RE: questions regarding setting up cifs.home_dir
by Maglinger, Paul 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

So what we already have set up in User Manager for Domains as mapping drive X to \\filer\home won't be affected, but we can change it to \\filer\%username% to go directly to the folder. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Losen [mailto:scl@sasha.acc.virginia.edu] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 15:20 To: toasters Subject: Re: questions regarding setting up cifs.home_dir > With all the discussion about setting up the home directories on the filer, > I have a few questions... > > On NOW, it says that if you set up home directories the only folders that a > user will be able to see will be their own. Does this apply to > administrator as well. Will the administrator be able to see and access all > home directories? Currently we have set aside an area of the filer for home > directories, but the whole company is not using them. So basically we are > just mapping the home directory to a drive in User Manager for Domains. So > my question is, if I start using cifs.home_dir, does anyone foresee any > problems. I don't want to have a situation where my users can't access > their data, right? I don't see any problem here. We have it set up both ways on our filers. We have a "HOME" share at the top of our home directory tree and if you attach to \\filer\HOME then you have to "drill down" to whatever directory you want. And we also provide the cifs.home_dir directory so that you can attach to \\filer\username and go straight to your own directory. Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 434-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support

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RE: questions regarding setting up cifs.home_dir
by Ballard.Derek 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

Greetings, Typically, the "Administrator" account(s) can connect to the administrative share (e.g. C$) of a volume. Simply connect to the administrative share and traverse into the %cifs.home_dir% and into whatever subdirectory you want to. The question becomes more interesting if you want non-admins to be able to access user home directories not their own. --- ************************* Derek Ballard ballard1(a)niehs.nih.gov NIEHS ITSS Contract ************************* > -----Original Message----- > From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:PMAGLINGER@scvl.com] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:22 PM > To: toasters > Subject: questions regarding setting up cifs.home_dir > > > With all the discussion about setting up the home directories > on the filer, > I have a few questions... > > On NOW, it says that if you set up home directories the only > folders that a > user will be able to see will be their own. Does this apply to > administrator as well. Will the administrator be able to see > and access all > home directories? Currently we have set aside an area of the > filer for home > directories, but the whole company is not using them. So > basically we are > just mapping the home directory to a drive in User Manager > for Domains. So > my question is, if I start using cifs.home_dir, does anyone > foresee any > problems. I don't want to have a situation where my users > can't access > their data, right? >

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questions regarding setting up cifs.home_dir
by Maglinger, Paul 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

With all the discussion about setting up the home directories on the filer, I have a few questions... On NOW, it says that if you set up home directories the only folders that a user will be able to see will be their own. Does this apply to administrator as well. Will the administrator be able to see and access all home directories? Currently we have set aside an area of the filer for home directories, but the whole company is not using them. So basically we are just mapping the home directory to a drive in User Manager for Domains. So my question is, if I start using cifs.home_dir, does anyone foresee any problems. I don't want to have a situation where my users can't access their data, right?

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RE: trying to make SDLTs work on F840 filer
by Melvin, Grant 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

Hi Jeff, SDLT, Seagate LTO and STK 9940 support was added in 6.1.2 which was made available on NOW last Monday (12/10). This has already been reflected in our supported tape device web page at: http://www.netapp.com/solutions/data_protection_devices.html Cheers, Grant For information on NetApp's Data Protection Solutions view http://www.netapp.com/solutions/data_protection.html. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Kennedy [mailto:jlkennedy@amcc.com] > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:48 AM > To: Carruthers Paul A > Cc: 'A. M. McCool'; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: trying to make SDLTs work on F840 filer > > > How is that possible? I thought SDLT wasn't supported until OT 6.2? > > ~JK > > "Carruthers, Paul A" wrote: > > > > Not the same config but we're using SDLT's in an ATL P3000 via fiber > > channel. Initial testing has been good - dumps and restores > OK. Filer saw > > the drives as SDLT's without issue. > > > > We have them on a 760c, though with 6.1.2. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: A. M. McCool [mailto:ammccoo@super.org] > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:49 PM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; ammccoo(a)super.org > > Subject: trying to make SDLTs work on F840 filer > > > > We just upgraded our F840 to Ontap-6.1.2 specifically to > get Super DLT > > suppport. We're also running the latest firmware 3.1_i1. > We rebooted > > after connecting scsi diff cable to drive. sysconfig -t > shows no tape > > drives present on system. > > > > Connected filer back to DLT 7000 and the filer see the lower density > > drives. > > Anyone using SDLTs tape drives yet? Doesn't seem to be much to the > > configuration, so not much room for error. > > > > Anna Mc. > > -- > Jeff Kennedy > UNIX Systems Administrator > AMCC > jkennedy(a)amcc.com >

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RE: trying to make SDLTs work on F840 filer
by Carruthers, Paul A 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

Not the same config but we're using SDLT's in an ATL P3000 via fiber channel. Initial testing has been good - dumps and restores OK. Filer saw the drives as SDLT's without issue. We have them on a 760c, though with 6.1.2. -----Original Message----- From: A. M. McCool [mailto:ammccoo@super.org] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:49 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com; ammccoo(a)super.org Subject: trying to make SDLTs work on F840 filer We just upgraded our F840 to Ontap-6.1.2 specifically to get Super DLT suppport. We're also running the latest firmware 3.1_i1. We rebooted after connecting scsi diff cable to drive. sysconfig -t shows no tape drives present on system. Connected filer back to DLT 7000 and the filer see the lower density drives. Anyone using SDLTs tape drives yet? Doesn't seem to be much to the configuration, so not much room for error. Anna Mc.

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cifs.home_dir and symbolic links?
by neil lehrer 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

has anybody had experience doing cifs.home_dir this way? i am having a problem. i'm sure i am missing something. the original post was from me and steve losen answered. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ neil said: > hi, > > our homedir structure is /vol/vol0/users/a/adam > > we want to use the subst cmd instead of 'net use' because we go below the > share. and since we have the first letter of the userid in there we can't use > the ontap homedir option. > > however, we can't get subst to work as a user. > > C:\WINNTSRV>subst q: \\filer\u7\k\kusr1 > Path not found - \\filer\u7\k\kusr1 > > subst works fine as admin. We get around this problem by creating a directory with a bunch of symbolic links in it, and making that directory our cifs.home_dir. You'll need to make the symbolic links on a NFS client. For example, we have this: options cifs.home_dir /home/shares And we have a symbolic link for each user like these: /home/shares/abc9d -> /h1/a/ab/abc9d /home/shares/fgh8i -> /h1/f/fg/fgh8i etc. On our system both /home/shares and /h1 are in our root volume, or else we would have to use paths like /vol/vol1/home/shares and /vol/vol1/h1/a/ab/abc9d. It's very easy to create all these symbolic links with the unix shell. For example, on our system you could do this: cd /h1 for x in ?/??; do ( cd $x for loginid in *; do test -d $loginid && ln -s /h1/$x/$loginid /home/shares done ) done Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 434-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- thanks. regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Re: shopping for refurb filers
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

There are many exceptions to NetApp's formal policy -- used NetApp filers with "freely transferable software" do, in fact, exist. NetApp has been very cooperative in the transfer of "used" software licenses to many of our customers. Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com ****************************************************************************** ******************** In a message dated 12/17/2001 9:42:02 AM Central Standard Time, SRoche(a)datalink.com writes: > This is Netapps formal policy regarding "freely transferable" software > licenses. > > <A HREF="http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html">http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html</A> > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] >> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:49 AM >> To: walt(a)dwkcb.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com >> Subject: Re: shopping for refurb filers >> >> >> In a message dated 12/14/2001 2:47:05 PM Central Standard Time, >> walt(a)dwkcb.com writes: >> >> >> >>> Are there any good places to get used/off-lease >>> refurbished filers at good prices? They have to have some >>> sort of warranty even if its only 90 days. >> >> >> We have all models of used NetApp F700 series filers and add-ons -- >> available at deep discounts, configured to suit, and fully warranted. >> Some have freely transferable NFS, CIFS and/or Cluster licenses; others >> are great for back-up systems and/or spares kits. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Fischmann >> Union Computer Exchange, Inc. >> 6233 Idylwood Lane >> Minneapolis, MN 55436 >> Phone: 952 935 7282 >> FAX: 952 935 5056 >> scott(a)unioncomputer.com >

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RE: shopping for refurb filers
by Steve Roche 17 Dec '01

17 Dec '01

This is Netapps formal policy regarding "freely transferable" software licenses. http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html <http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html> -----Original Message----- From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:49 AM To: walt(a)dwkcb.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: shopping for refurb filers In a message dated 12/14/2001 2:47:05 PM Central Standard Time, walt(a)dwkcb.com writes: Are there any good places to get used/off-lease refurbished filers at good prices? They have to have some sort of warranty even if its only 90 days. We have all models of used NetApp F700 series filers and add-ons -- available at deep discounts, configured to suit, and fully warranted. Some have freely transferable NFS, CIFS and/or Cluster licenses; others are great for back-up systems and/or spares kits. Regards, Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 Phone: 952 935 7282 FAX: 952 935 5056 scott(a)unioncomputer.com

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