toasters

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13531 discussions

Re: upgrade from 6.1.1 to 6.1.2?
by Chris Thompson 08 Feb '02

08 Feb '02

I wrote: > Melvin Grant has already answered that, ^^^^^^^^^^^^ That should of course have been "Grant Melvin". Apologies, but why is it that everyone at NetApp uses an MUA that generates headers like From: "Melvin, Grant" <Grant.Melvin(a)netapp.com> ? It can only lead to confusion ... Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QH, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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Qtree based Snapshots
by Uros Lampret 08 Feb '02

08 Feb '02

Is there sometning new with qtree based snapshots? What about ONTAP 6.2? _____________________________ Uros Lampret _____________________________

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FW: Cannot delete folder in volume.
by Maglinger, Paul 08 Feb '02

08 Feb '02

My thanks to all "toasters" out there that responded. Of all, Rahul was closest. Before we set up an actual volume and "home directory", we had created some standard shared folders for testing. Apparently it's not a good idea when you have a folder shared out as \\bass\username and are using cifs.home_dir at the same time (which effectively creates a share by the same name). I removed the share (created in Server Manager) and was able to delete either folder. What was funny is that it seemed that the NT share(in Server Manager) took precedence over the cifs.home_dir share. In other words, going through Network Neighborhood would bring up the folders in the old share rather than those in the home directory share. Thanks again... -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Rahul [mailto:Rahul.Kumar@sdrc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:17 To: Maglinger, Paul Subject: RE: Cannot delete folder in volume. Hi Paul, If this is a explicit CIFS share then you have to unshare this shared folder from the Server manager and then delete it. Let me know if this helps. Rahul ----------- Rahul Kumar EDS PLM Solutions - EIT (Pune-India) Rahul.Kumar(a)sdrc.com Work: 91-20-2930812 -----Original Message----- From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:PMAGLINGER@scvl.com] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:28 PM To: 'NetApps list server' Subject: Cannot delete folder in volume. I can't delete a folder in one of my volumes. I'm trying to delete it from Windows Explorer and I get an error that, "Cannot remove folder blahblah. There has been a sharing violation. The source or destination file may be in use." I have checked the CIFS sessions and check Server Manager, and neither one of these shows that it is in use. Any thoughts (short of stopping and re-starting CIFS) on how I can free this up to delete it? Thanks! Remember, you are unique... just like everyone else! Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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upgrade from 6.1.1 to 6.1.2?
by Edward Lee 08 Feb '02

08 Feb '02

I am currently running ONTap version 6.1R1P1 Is there any practical reason for me to upgrade to version 6.1.2? Does 6.1.2 provide any enchnacements that would increase performance or provide added functionality? Thanks _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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RE: upgrade from 6.1.1 to 6.1.2?
by Melvin, Grant 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

Hi Edward, You would probably want 6.1.2R1 versus 6.1.2. Customer support have an availability notice (field alert) at: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/products/field/alert115.shtml The features description can be found on the 6.1.2R2 software download page at: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/download/software/ontap/6.1.2R1 For instance we added support for three new tape devices: StorageTek T9940 with an HVD SCSI interface or Fibre Channel interface Quantum SuperDLT1 with an HVD or an LVD SCSI interface Seagate Ultrium LTO with an LVD SCSI interface Cheers, Grant For information on NetApp's Data Protection Solutions view http://www.netapp.com/solutions/data_protection.html. -----Original Message----- From: Edward Lee [mailto:edwardlee60@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 12:53 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: upgrade from 6.1.1 to 6.1.2? I am currently running ONTap version 6.1R1P1 Is there any practical reason for me to upgrade to version 6.1.2? Does 6.1.2 provide any enchnacements that would increase performance or provide added functionality? Thanks _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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cifs.homedir and home folder setting for users
by Colin Eric Johnson 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

I'm working on moving our users to a netapp filer and I am trying to use the cifs.homedir option. My understanding is that this should allow the user to mount \\filer\username as a cifs share even though their home directory is really on something like \\filer\somedirectory\username I can make this work just fine if I do this with my own account, as a domain admin. If I try to do this with any other users account (say a test user) or as Administrator (and attempt to change my own account) I get an error from Active Directory that reads "The home folder could not be created because: The network name cannot be found." Any clues based on what I have said to point at what I am doing wrong? What else I might want to look at? -- Colin E. Johnson | colinj(a)ccs.neu.edu Harming only the humorless since 1967

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Error 823 from SQL reading from filer
by Maglinger, Paul 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

I have another situation which I thought I corrected, but apparent it reared it's ugly head again. We're storing a SQL database on one of the volumes of our 740 filer. Every now and again, we'll get a Run-time error (Microsoft)(ODBC SQL Server Driver) Communication link failure. Going into the event viewer we find "Error 823, Severity 24, State:1 I/O error 240 (The session was cancelled.) detected during the read of BUF pointer blah blah blah, file= (the file located on the shared drive mapped to the filer). Any DB people out there run into this? Remember, you are unique... just like everyone else! Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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Re: /etc/quota questions
by Joan Alter 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

1. You can only specify one domain name on the QUOTA_TARGET_DOMAIN directive. That domain name is prepended the the user names in the following entries in the /etc/quotas file. until another QUOTA_TARGET_DOMAIN directive is encountered. So: QUOTA_TARGET_DOMAIN domain1 joe user 10M - sue user 20M - QUOTA_TARGET_DOMAIN domain2 bob user 20M - ann user 30M - is equivalent to: domain1\joe user 10M - domain1\sue user 20M - domain2\bob user 20M - domain2\ann user 30M - 2. We do not support quotas on arbitrary directories, only on qtrees. Joan Alter At 10:50 AM 2/7/02 , you wrote: > > 1. In the /etc/quotas file can you have more than one domain for > QUOTA_TARGET_DOMAIN > > > > 2. how do you specific a directory with a space in it? /vol/vol1/my folder/ > > > > > > Jennifer > >

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root access and multi-homed hosts
by neil lehrer 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

if you have hosts with multiple interfaces and access can come thru any of them, do you have to have an entry for each interface in the exports file? /vol/vol0/home -root=host1-e0:host2-e0 /vol/vol0/home -root=host1-e1:host2-e1 etc... host1 and host2 in dns has multiple entries. the root restriction matches the ip num of the host trying to mount to the ip num of the host shown in the exports file? otherwise do you show up as nobody, nogroup? thanks. --

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/etc/quota questions
by Jennifer Armenta 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

1. In the /etc/quotas file can you have more than one domain for QUOTA_TARGET_DOMAIN 2. how do you specific a directory with a space in it? /vol/vol1/my folder/ Jennifer

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[solution]: Sendmail .forward & filer home directories - "unsafe/ world-writea ble"!?
by Surlow, Jim 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

Thanks everyone for your comments. We discovered that the parent directory of the home directories were unsafe. So, it was a bit of sendmail's error message not being descriptive enough (implying that it was the user's home directory as opposed to any directory in the tree). We had mounted some space from another unix box and saw that sendmail behaved, so that why we thought it was filer related. When we migrated the users over to the filer, we must have started with bad perms on the parent directory. -----Original Message----- From: Surlow, Jim [mailto:surlow@lucent.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:19 PM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Sendmail .forward & filer home directories - "unsafe/world-writea ble"!? Filer Admins, We have unix home directories on our filer. We just noticed today that sendmail reports that the .forward files are in a "World writable directory" and that the user directory is "unsafe directory path, marked unsafe". (These are sendmail errors - I'm at LogLevel=99 for sendmail). Then the mail is delivered locally to the box as opposed to forwarded. Now, my directories are not world writeable! So, I'm wondering what permissions aren't being read correctly. I can fix sendmail by changing the sendmail.cf to include "DontBlameSendmail=forwardfileinunsafedirpath", but am interested in the underlying issues here. We are running different versions of sendmail. The host that I've been testing on is running 8.11.6 Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Jim Surlow Billing & Customer Care Lucent Technologies

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Sendmail .forward & filer home directories - "unsafe/world-writea ble"!?
by Surlow, Jim 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

Filer Admins, We have unix home directories on our filer. We just noticed today that sendmail reports that the .forward files are in a "World writable directory" and that the user directory is "unsafe directory path, marked unsafe". (These are sendmail errors - I'm at LogLevel=99 for sendmail). Then the mail is delivered locally to the box as opposed to forwarded. Now, my directories are not world writeable! So, I'm wondering what permissions aren't being read correctly. I can fix sendmail by changing the sendmail.cf to include "DontBlameSendmail=forwardfileinunsafedirpath", but am interested in the underlying issues here. We are running different versions of sendmail. The host that I've been testing on is running 8.11.6 Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Jim Surlow Billing & Customer Care Lucent Technologies

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FW: Cannot delete folder in volume.
by Maglinger, Paul 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

My apologies, I should have provided more detail. This is not a set up as a share, however it was a home directory for a user. -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Rahul [mailto:Rahul.Kumar@sdrc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:17 To: Maglinger, Paul Subject: RE: Cannot delete folder in volume. Hi Paul, If this is a explicit CIFS share then you have to unshare this shared folder from the Server manager and then delete it. Let me know if this helps. Rahul ----------- Rahul Kumar EDS PLM Solutions - EIT (Pune-India) Rahul.Kumar(a)sdrc.com Work: 91-20-2930812 -----Original Message----- From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:PMAGLINGER@scvl.com] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:28 PM To: 'NetApps list server' Subject: Cannot delete folder in volume. I can't delete a folder in one of my volumes. I'm trying to delete it from Windows Explorer and I get an error that, "Cannot remove folder blahblah. There has been a sharing violation. The source or destination file may be in use." I have checked the CIFS sessions and check Server Manager, and neither one of these shows that it is in use. Any thoughts (short of stopping and re-starting CIFS) on how I can free this up to delete it? Thanks! Remember, you are unique... just like everyone else! Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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Cannot delete folder in volume.
by Maglinger, Paul 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

I can't delete a folder in one of my volumes. I'm trying to delete it from Windows Explorer and I get an error that, "Cannot remove folder blahblah. There has been a sharing violation. The source or destination file may be in use." I have checked the CIFS sessions and check Server Manager, and neither one of these shows that it is in use. Any thoughts (short of stopping and re-starting CIFS) on how I can free this up to delete it? Thanks! Remember, you are unique... just like everyone else! Paul Maglinger, A+, CA, CET, MCSE Systems Administrator Shoe Carnival Inc. (812)867-4674 pmaglinger(a)scvl.com

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RE: Oracle and snapshots - how are you using it?
by Mitko Blazeski 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

You could always do a hot backup of the database if you dont want to take it offline. Check the whitepapers http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3130.html#4.2. Regards Mitko Blazeski -----Original Message----- From: Art Hebert [mailto:art@arzoon.com] Sent: den 7 februari 2002 03:17 To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: Oracle and snapshots - how are you using it? We haven't implemented snapshots because we have a single volume and it hasn't been manageable. We now have budget to buy some more disk shelves and want to move our database files to another volume and snap this. In looking at white papers on the Netapp site it leads me to beleive that I need to stop the db and snap and then restart. I would like to just run a snap every 15 minutes without stopping the db, so I can always fall back to a previous snapshot, can or are any of you doing this? thanks Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 995-6125 Mobile: 650 444-8667

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Cant access PST File
by Jennifer Armenta 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

Having strange errors with accessing PST files on a CIFS volume. Some users can't access their PST while other can. If we move the problematic users PST to their local PC then all works ok so it's make the Netapp Filer (F840) part of the issue. Anyone experience this? I have checked into issues with NT & Win2k which the NOW indicates hw to fix these issues but we are not seeing those problems. Jennifer

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Oracle and snapshots - how are you using it?
by Art Hebert 07 Feb '02

07 Feb '02

We haven't implemented snapshots because we have a single volume and it hasn't been manageable. We now have budget to buy some more disk shelves and want to move our database files to another volume and snap this. In looking at white papers on the Netapp site it leads me to beleive that I need to stop the db and snap and then restart. I would like to just run a snap every 15 minutes without stopping the db, so I can always fall back to a previous snapshot, can or are any of you doing this? thanks Art Hebert Email: art(a)arzoon.com <mailto:art@arzoon.com> Arzoon IT Dept. Phone: 650 995-6125 Mobile: 650 444-8667

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RE: Slow write performance
by Edward Hibbert 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

Thanks to all of you who replied. Various people pointed me at statit as the particularly useful tool for spotting what's going on. I have two volume groupings, one with 3 disks, and one with 4. My data is only on one of those volume groups, and statit clearly shows the usage on the relevant disks being very high, up to the point where I'm thrashing the cache on the filer. So I'll split my data across both volume groups, which should give me better throughput. Thanks again, Edward. > Disk statistics (over 31 seconds) > ut% is the utilization % of the disk; > chain is avg number of 4K blocks/op; > usecs is round trip time to disk in microseconds per 4K block. > > disk ut% xfers/s urds/s chain usecs cwrs/s chain usecs crds/s chain > usecs > 8.0 93 171.12 118.70 1.06 5711 26.90 3.45 2213 25.51 1.70 > 2592 > 8.1 90 168.80 114.54 1.04 5843 28.09 3.16 2433 26.16 1.71 > 3163 > 8.2 0 0.38 0.00 0.00 0 0.38 3.16 1605 0.00 0.00 > 0 > 8.3 28 79.06 0.25 1.00 9500 38.35 4.08 1340 40.45 1.73 > 1112 > 8.4 90 170.70 118.45 1.05 5771 27.80 3.11 2359 24.45 1.69 > 3009 > 8.5 0 0.67 0.19 1.00 3833 0.19 3.83 1565 0.29 1.22 > 1545 > 8.6 0 0.61 0.12 1.00 7750 0.35 2.81 1580 0.12 1.75 > 1428

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RE: Slow write performance
by Knight, Jason 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

It might also be helpful to know how many disks are in the raid group. 2? 10? Apologies if it was mentioned earlier. How much NVRAM? Jason -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Rahul [mailto:Rahul.Kumar@sdrc.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 12:48 PM To: Chris Thompson; Mike Ball; Edward Hibbert Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Slow write performance Hi All, I think in this case if he could use sysstat -x 1 he would get a output kinda like this which might help diaganosing further... filer1> sysstat -x 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Total Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache Cache CP CP Disk in out read write read write age hit time ty util 2% 55 12 0 67 19 21 24 0 0 0 >60 99% 0% - 2% 8% 150 9 0 159 31 33 112 1309 0 0 >60 100% 15% T 15% 1% 21 4 0 25 28 30 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 3% 132 0 0 132 1 1 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 4% 97 71 0 168 26 30 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 2% 91 0 0 91 36 21 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 2% 57 20 0 77 14 17 32 0 0 0 >60 96% 0% - 4% 4% 172 10 0 182 31 33 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 1% 18 4 0 22 31 33 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% filer1> ----------- Rahul Kumar EDS PLM Solutions - EIT (Pune-India) Rahul.Kumar(a)sdrc.com Work: 91-20-2930812 -----Original Message----- From: Chris Thompson [mailto:cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:26 PM To: Mike Ball; Edward Hibbert Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Slow write performance MBall(a)datalink.com (Mike Ball) writes > > I not sure I would be concerned about the 0's on disk writes you are > seeing. As long as Net KB keeps coming in/out. The Netapp may be > recalculating parity and holding the writes in NVRAM before it flushes to > disk, etc.. He should be worried about there being too *few* 0's! As anyone who has done a "sysstat 1" (or just watched the pretty lights on the discs :-]) knows, ONTAP does disk writes in bursts (CPs). It will do a CP about once every 11 seconds unless NVRAM gets half-full (or some other exceptional condition happens) first. Edward's CP's seem to be taking about 5-6 seconds each: that's definitely not normal. If he could do "sysstat -u" (presumably the reason he can't is that he is still on ONTAP 5.x), then he would see something like 50% in the "CP time" column. The cache age being stuck down at 1 minute all the time doesn't look healthy either. It may be that the disc read traffic is what is making the CPs take so long. That's an effect I have observed during dumps when obviously there is a lot of read traffic, but the CP-expansion is not usually as extreme as in this case. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QH, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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RE: vol0 question
by Mike Sphar 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

I just want to say for the record that we've had vol0 on our filers be 100% full several times and our filers have never crashed because of it, at least not any time I can recall. Not that vol0 being full is a good thing, of course, but it's always been recoverable in my experience without a crash. -- Mike Sphar - Sr Systems Administrator - Engineering Support Peregrine Systems, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Harm [mailto:jharm@llnl.gov] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:23 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: vol0 question An argument for isolating root volume is that we are still warned in the netapp admin classes that if the root volume gets full, the filer will crash. We can build qtress to limit client to just under 100% or we can reserve 1% snap and turn off snaps. But will either of those really work? Will the filer potentially crash on a full volume even if it is not root volume? At 6:12 AM -0800 2/5/02, Jeff Kennedy wrote: >I don't disagree but this seems to be a paradigm of the past. With the >R100 out, and OT 6.2 comming soon, the limitations are quickly >disappearing. Currently I plan to just snapmirror volumes to the R100, >but with 6.2 I plan to create volumes in the 1TB+ range and snapmirror >the qtrees (everything we do is in qtrees). I used to be a volume nazi >for probably the same reasons you mention (no volume was to *ever* get >above 400GB's non-snapshot), now I don't see that as a problem anymore. >I have no issues with volumes going past 1TB if this works as >advertised, and I have no reason to think it won't. > >So, do you still think vol0 should be seperate? And don't give me the >"That's the way we've always done it..." routine :-] Keep in mind the >R100 does mostly archival, backup/restore, and misc funtions like db >exports and IT tool storage, not traditional production stuff. > >~JK > >Chris Blackmor wrote: >> >> Jeff, >> I personally don't like active data on vol0. In the past I have >> put archive data on vol0 because it is low impact. I happen to >> be a little more paranoid than some but that is just me and we >> have been bitten before by putting highly volatile on the root volume. >> Chris >> >> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:02:14PM -0800, Jeff Kennedy wrote: >> > Now that the R100 has come out I was wondering what people think of the >> > seperate vol0 concept? In the old days it wasn't quite so bad; ok, so >> > you wasted a 4gb drive or maybe even an 18gb drive. But now we're >> > looking at tossing a 136gb drive for what? Squat really. >> > >> > So what's the new thought on this? Do you not waste the disk on a >> > seperate vol0 and just keep tight reigns on qtrees? Or is there still >> > an argument for vol0 on it's own? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > -- >> > ===================== >> > Jeff Kennedy >> > Unix Administrator >> > AMCC >> > jlkennedy(a)amcc.com >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >> * | When you're throwin' your * >> * Chris Blackmor _______ | weight around, * >> * Advanced Micro Devices \____ | | be ready to have it * >> * Phone: (512) 602-1608 /| | | | thrown around by * >> * Fax: (512) 602-5155 | |___| | | somebody else. * >> * Email: chris.blackmor(a)amd.com |____/ \| | Author Unknown* >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >> * My comments are mine, and mine alone. * >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >-- >===================== >Jeff Kennedy >Unix Administrator >AMCC >jlkennedy(a)amcc.com -- }}}===============>> LLNL James E. Harm (Jim); jharm(a)llnl.gov System Administrator Compaq Clusters (925) 422-4018 Page: 423-7705x57152

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exports questions
by neil lehrer 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

ontap 6.1.1r2 nfs, cifs, nis, nt4 domain 1. i run both nfs and cifs and i find it easier to edit the exports file from the cifs side. but sometimes things get odd afterwards. what does the parser not like that gets in when using windows editors? i have looked with a hex editor and haven't seen anything unusual. couldn't find anything in NOW knowledgebase. 2. i set up an exports entry using the fully qualified domain name for a host with root access. after i exportfs -a and then do an exportfs the listing comes back with just the hostname, no domain tagged on. is this normal behavior? thanks. -- regards +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Neil Lehrer + + United States International Broadcasting Bureau + System Development Division + + voice 202 619-2524 + fax 202 619-3576 + nlehrer(a)ibb.gov + + " is this crisis an opportunity or just + another grab the fire extinguisher moment?" + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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RE: Slow write performance
by Kumar, Rahul 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

Hi All, I think in this case if he could use sysstat -x 1 he would get a output kinda like this which might help diaganosing further... filer1> sysstat -x 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Total Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache Cache CP CP Disk in out read write read write age hit time ty util 2% 55 12 0 67 19 21 24 0 0 0 >60 99% 0% - 2% 8% 150 9 0 159 31 33 112 1309 0 0 >60 100% 15% T 15% 1% 21 4 0 25 28 30 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 3% 132 0 0 132 1 1 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 4% 97 71 0 168 26 30 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 2% 91 0 0 91 36 21 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 2% 57 20 0 77 14 17 32 0 0 0 >60 96% 0% - 4% 4% 172 10 0 182 31 33 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% 1% 18 4 0 22 31 33 0 0 0 0 >60 100% 0% - 0% filer1> ----------- Rahul Kumar EDS PLM Solutions - EIT (Pune-India) Rahul.Kumar(a)sdrc.com Work: 91-20-2930812 -----Original Message----- From: Chris Thompson [mailto:cet1@cus.cam.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:26 PM To: Mike Ball; Edward Hibbert Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Slow write performance MBall(a)datalink.com (Mike Ball) writes > > I not sure I would be concerned about the 0's on disk writes you are > seeing. As long as Net KB keeps coming in/out. The Netapp may be > recalculating parity and holding the writes in NVRAM before it flushes to > disk, etc.. He should be worried about there being too *few* 0's! As anyone who has done a "sysstat 1" (or just watched the pretty lights on the discs :-]) knows, ONTAP does disk writes in bursts (CPs). It will do a CP about once every 11 seconds unless NVRAM gets half-full (or some other exceptional condition happens) first. Edward's CP's seem to be taking about 5-6 seconds each: that's definitely not normal. If he could do "sysstat -u" (presumably the reason he can't is that he is still on ONTAP 5.x), then he would see something like 50% in the "CP time" column. The cache age being stuck down at 1 minute all the time doesn't look healthy either. It may be that the disc read traffic is what is making the CPs take so long. That's an effect I have observed during dumps when obviously there is a lot of read traffic, but the CP-expansion is not usually as extreme as in this case. Chris Thompson University of Cambridge Computing Service, Email: cet1(a)ucs.cam.ac.uk New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QH, Phone: +44 1223 334715 United Kingdom.

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RE: Slow write performance
by Mike Ball 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

Edward, I not sure I would be concerned about the 0's on disk writes you are seeing. As long as Net KB keeps coming in/out. The Netapp may be recalculating parity and holding the writes in NVRAM before it flushes to disk, etc.. As for the volume being full, I see a lot of customers only add 1 disk at a time when the volumes get full. This causes a problem because you basically do not stripe across disks. You only are writing to one disk. At this point you become disk bound which could very well be what is happening here. Make sure you add disks a few at a time when you grow your volume to stripe the data among drives. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Edward Hibbert [mailto:EH@dataconnection.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 8:29 AM To: 'Mike Ball' Subject: RE: Slow write performance Mike, I can send you a couple of the outputs straight away. sysstat doesn't recognise the -u option; what's the difference between that and sysstat 1? I take your point about network settings - we've had problems in this area before - but I don't understand why I would get 0 disk writes for a long time while still getting network traffic in and out. I know that my network traffic during such a period includes write requests (from pktt trace), so what I'm wondering is what causes the writes to hang up and then recover. The disk on /vol/vol0 has previously got very full. Although we've now freed up some space, do you think there might be persistant fragmentation? Edward. nacolt1*> df Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on /vol/vol0/ 95328924 54170444 41158480 57% /vol/vol0/ /vol/vol0/.snapshot 0 0 0 ---% /vol/vol0/.snapshot /vol/vol1/ 63552616 60599768 2952848 95% /vol/vol1/ /vol/vol1/.snapshot 0 0 0 ---% /vol/vol1/.snapshot Volume vol0 (root) RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- parity 8.3 8 0 3 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 data 8.4 8 0 4 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 data 8.1 8 0 1 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 data 8.0 8 0 0 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 Volume vol1 RAID group 0 RAID Disk HA.ID HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ----- ------------ ---- -------------- -------------- parity 8.2 8 0 2 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 data 8.6 8 0 6 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 data 8.5 8 0 5 FC:A 34500/70656000 35003/71687368 nacolt1*> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ball [mailto:MBall@DATALINK.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:07 PM To: Edward Hibbert Subject: RE: Slow write performance Edward, Trying forcing the switch you plug into to 100Mb Full duplex. In addition, instead of making e0 auto negotiate, force it to 100Mb full duplex. Your network KB/s is pretty low. Also, how full is your file system? Can you send me the output of the following commands: df sysstat -u 1 (run for 20 seconds) sysconfig -r Thank you, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Edward Hibbert [mailto:EH@dataconnection.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 5:27 PM To: 'Mike Ball' Subject: RE: Slow write performance Here's the sysstat. Interesting that this shows periodic 0 writes. Tue Feb 5 22:22:30 GMT [tn_login_0]: root logged in from host: 192.168.21.16 sysstat 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache in out read write read write age 54% 1012 0 1 393 1494 2430 2446 0 0 1 43% 1012 0 0 431 1549 2302 3947 0 0 1 46% 1278 0 0 471 1787 2708 1116 0 0 1 57% 1080 0 0 611 2019 2078 5177 0 0 1 31% 726 0 0 439 1056 840 1028 0 0 1 37% 962 0 0 388 1872 1561 0 0 0 1 32% 919 0 0 404 1786 1688 0 0 0 1 33% 1050 0 0 407 1815 1529 0 0 0 1 43% 1102 0 0 623 2148 1264 0 0 0 1 43% 857 0 1 347 1585 2154 0 0 0 1 38% 746 0 0 430 1878 1704 0 0 0 1 58% 463 0 1 255 800 2610 3675 0 0 1 52% 997 0 0 517 1544 2840 2084 0 0 1 48% 792 0 0 401 1350 2222 5365 0 0 1 50% 1028 0 0 429 2055 2264 2108 0 0 1 37% 864 0 0 304 1864 1893 2210 0 0 1 39% 1053 0 0 566 2154 988 8 0 0 1 45% 1143 0 0 604 2309 1733 0 0 0 1 35% 1034 0 0 420 2123 1860 0 0 0 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache in out read write read write age 42% 1000 0 0 550 2016 1264 0 0 0 1 52% 1118 0 1 575 2541 1589 0 0 0 1 30% 791 0 0 327 1648 1880 0 0 0 1 48% 880 0 0 382 1896 2022 1905 0 0 1 47% 745 0 1 354 1354 2196 2828 0 0 1 57% 1287 0 0 581 1772 2366 3583 0 0 1 51% 1136 0 0 595 1929 2488 1168 0 0 1 48% 987 0 0 419 1273 2348 3504 0 0 1 35% 768 0 0 421 1623 1597 720 0 0 1 45% 1237 0 0 624 2465 1869 0 0 0 1 38% 1112 0 0 390 1995 1688 0 0 0 1 44% 1044 0 0 585 1817 1697 0 0 0 1 ifconfig output: e0: flags=240043<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,UP_1ARY,LINK_UP> mtu 1500 inet 192.168.21.81 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.21.255 ether 00:a0:98:00:97:67 (auto-100tx-fd-up) lo: flags=240049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,UP_1ARY,LINK_UP> mtu 1536 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 broadcast 127.0.0.1 Regards, Edward. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ball [mailto:MBall@DATALINK.com] Sent: 05 February 2002 19:58 To: Edward Hibbert; toasters Subject: RE: Slow write performance Edward, Telnet to the netapp and type "sysstat 1". Let it run for about 20 seconds and send us the output. Also, type "ifconfig -a" and send us the output. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Edward Hibbert [mailto:EH@dataconnection.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:24 PM To: toasters Subject: Slow write performance We're seeing some performance problems on an F720 which you guys might be able to help with (even though it's not exactly top of the range nowadays). What we see is: - We're driving it over NFS v3. - We get about 1500 ops/sec out of it, of which one third are writes and two thirds are reads. There aren't many file open/close operations. - The operations are to random locations in large (10GB) files. - The CPU is running about 75%, and the network input and output below the throughput of the link we have to it. We've seen both CPU and network go higher if we do simple copy tests. - Looking it it via pktt trace, something approaching 15% of WRITE operations take long enough for the clients to time out and retransmit (so at least 1 second). None of the READ operations do. - The retransmissions appear to come in bunches. For example we'll see a few seconds where the filer doesn't respond, during which time the retransmissions will come in, then it will wake up and send some responses back. - The rest of the time, the WRITES are very fast (sub-ms). This appears to have worsened recently. We tried a couple of things: - We thought that this might be because the disk had got full and fragmented, so we zapped a bunch of data. - We rebooted. Neither of these seemed to help much. sysstat consistently shows a cache age of 1. This, and the bursty nature of the delays, suggest to me that I'm just hitting it too hard, and there's some kind of periodic cache-flushing operation going on, but do any of you folk have any other suggestions? Edward Hibbert Internet Applications Group Data Connection Ltd Tel: +44 131 662 1212 Fax: +44 131 662 1345 Email: eh(a)dataconnection.com Web: http://www.dataconnection.com

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RE: what disks can i use in an F330?
by Knight, Jason 06 Feb '02

06 Feb '02

Brian, To address your last concern I believe the OS for the F330 goes up to DOT version 5.3.7R3. That is the version we run on our F330. If anyone knows of a later version please let me know. Jason Jason Knight Citadel Investment Group L.L.C. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hechinger [mailto:wonko@arkham.ws] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 3:59 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: what disks can i use in an F330? i've got an F330 that i'd like to get online one of these days, and i'd like to get the most storage onto it that i possibly can. it's got 5 narrow SCSI channels on it, and i have a whole slew of DEC BA350 StorageWorks shelves to hook up to it. what is the largest size drives i can put on this thing? is there a particular model of drive that i am limited to? also, what are my options for a wide scsi controller or two in this thing? several of the BA350 shelves have 16-bit personality cards in them, and i'd love to be able to take advantage of that rather than downgrade them to 8-bit personality cards. i think that's all the questions i have for now. next step after getting disks on it, find a copy of the OS for it. -brian

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RE: Slow write performance
by Edward Hibbert 05 Feb '02

05 Feb '02

Here's the sysstat. Interesting that this shows periodic 0 writes. Tue Feb 5 22:22:30 GMT [tn_login_0]: root logged in from host: 192.168.21.16 sysstat 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache in out read write read write age 54% 1012 0 1 393 1494 2430 2446 0 0 1 43% 1012 0 0 431 1549 2302 3947 0 0 1 46% 1278 0 0 471 1787 2708 1116 0 0 1 57% 1080 0 0 611 2019 2078 5177 0 0 1 31% 726 0 0 439 1056 840 1028 0 0 1 37% 962 0 0 388 1872 1561 0 0 0 1 32% 919 0 0 404 1786 1688 0 0 0 1 33% 1050 0 0 407 1815 1529 0 0 0 1 43% 1102 0 0 623 2148 1264 0 0 0 1 43% 857 0 1 347 1585 2154 0 0 0 1 38% 746 0 0 430 1878 1704 0 0 0 1 58% 463 0 1 255 800 2610 3675 0 0 1 52% 997 0 0 517 1544 2840 2084 0 0 1 48% 792 0 0 401 1350 2222 5365 0 0 1 50% 1028 0 0 429 2055 2264 2108 0 0 1 37% 864 0 0 304 1864 1893 2210 0 0 1 39% 1053 0 0 566 2154 988 8 0 0 1 45% 1143 0 0 604 2309 1733 0 0 0 1 35% 1034 0 0 420 2123 1860 0 0 0 1 CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache in out read write read write age 42% 1000 0 0 550 2016 1264 0 0 0 1 52% 1118 0 1 575 2541 1589 0 0 0 1 30% 791 0 0 327 1648 1880 0 0 0 1 48% 880 0 0 382 1896 2022 1905 0 0 1 47% 745 0 1 354 1354 2196 2828 0 0 1 57% 1287 0 0 581 1772 2366 3583 0 0 1 51% 1136 0 0 595 1929 2488 1168 0 0 1 48% 987 0 0 419 1273 2348 3504 0 0 1 35% 768 0 0 421 1623 1597 720 0 0 1 45% 1237 0 0 624 2465 1869 0 0 0 1 38% 1112 0 0 390 1995 1688 0 0 0 1 44% 1044 0 0 585 1817 1697 0 0 0 1 ifconfig output: e0: flags=240043<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,UP_1ARY,LINK_UP> mtu 1500 inet 192.168.21.81 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.21.255 ether 00:a0:98:00:97:67 (auto-100tx-fd-up) lo: flags=240049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,UP_1ARY,LINK_UP> mtu 1536 inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000 broadcast 127.0.0.1 Regards, Edward. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ball [mailto:MBall@DATALINK.com] Sent: 05 February 2002 19:58 To: Edward Hibbert; toasters Subject: RE: Slow write performance Edward, Telnet to the netapp and type "sysstat 1". Let it run for about 20 seconds and send us the output. Also, type "ifconfig -a" and send us the output. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Edward Hibbert [mailto:EH@dataconnection.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:24 PM To: toasters Subject: Slow write performance We're seeing some performance problems on an F720 which you guys might be able to help with (even though it's not exactly top of the range nowadays). What we see is: - We're driving it over NFS v3. - We get about 1500 ops/sec out of it, of which one third are writes and two thirds are reads. There aren't many file open/close operations. - The operations are to random locations in large (10GB) files. - The CPU is running about 75%, and the network input and output below the throughput of the link we have to it. We've seen both CPU and network go higher if we do simple copy tests. - Looking it it via pktt trace, something approaching 15% of WRITE operations take long enough for the clients to time out and retransmit (so at least 1 second). None of the READ operations do. - The retransmissions appear to come in bunches. For example we'll see a few seconds where the filer doesn't respond, during which time the retransmissions will come in, then it will wake up and send some responses back. - The rest of the time, the WRITES are very fast (sub-ms). This appears to have worsened recently. We tried a couple of things: - We thought that this might be because the disk had got full and fragmented, so we zapped a bunch of data. - We rebooted. Neither of these seemed to help much. sysstat consistently shows a cache age of 1. This, and the bursty nature of the delays, suggest to me that I'm just hitting it too hard, and there's some kind of periodic cache-flushing operation going on, but do any of you folk have any other suggestions? Edward Hibbert Internet Applications Group Data Connection Ltd Tel: +44 131 662 1212 Fax: +44 131 662 1345 Email: eh(a)dataconnection.com Web: http://www.dataconnection.com

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