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Re: Network Appliance's used equipment policies
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

Hello, Dan: NetApp's "Used-Equipment Support" policy described at http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html does not support the following claims that are being made by some NetApp reps: 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's maintenance service agreement" 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under your existing NetApp service contract" 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp dealers" 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your filer's software license agreement" 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's software license agreement" We acknowledge that NetApp's standard policy is very clear with regard to "used software." However, NetApp makes exceptions, and as you know, Union Computer has resold many NetApp filers with transferable NFS, CIFS and CLUSTER licenses where Network Appliance actually processes the license transfers, free of charge. Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" www.unioncomputer.com > Subj:RE: Network Appliance's used equipment policies > Date:3/9/2003 8:33:57 PM Central Standard Time > From:<A HREF="mailto:Dan.Warmenhoven@netapp.com">Dan.Warmenhoven(a)netapp.com</A> > To:<A HREF="mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com">ScottUCE(a)aol.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:toasters@mathworks.com">toasters(a)mathworks.com</A> > CC:<A HREF="mailto:scott@unioncomputer.com">scott(a)unioncomputer.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:Andy.Kryder@netapp.com">Andy.Kryder(a)netapp.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:Steven.Gomo@netapp.com">Steven.Gomo(a)netapp.com</A>, > <A HREF="mailto:mark.santora@netapp.com">mark.santora(a)netapp.com</A>, <A HREF="mailto:Valentin.Bercovici@netapp.com">Valentin.Bercovici(a)netapp.com</A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > Scott, > > I must disagree with your claims. Our used equipment policy is clearly > documented, and is not as you stated. I suggest you read it at: > <A HREF="http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html">http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html</A> > > Dan Warmenhoven > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Warmenhoven dan(a)netapp.com > Chief Executive Officer phone: 408-822-6600 > Network Appliance, Inc. fax: 408-822-6603 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 2:47 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Cc: scott(a)unioncomputer.com > Subject: Network Appliance's used equipment policies > > > An active secondary market is developing for NetApp systems, parts, add-ons > and maintenance. This market is enabling NetApp users to save money on > current products as well as to secure out-of-production features, parts and > add-ons that are no longer available from Network Appliance. > > Unfortunately -- and with increasing frequency -- we are hearing of NetApp > sales reps making false statements about NetApp's used equipment policies. > Examples are: > > > 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's > maintenance service agreement" > > 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's > recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under > your existing NetApp service contract" > > 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp > dealers" > > 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your > filer's software license agreement" > > 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's > software license agreement" > > 6) "NetApp has never negotiated transferable protocol licenses on new filer > purchases." > > > Should you ever be confronted with claims such as these, you might want to > ask your NetApp rep to put them > in writing ;-) > > > Scott Fischmann > Union Computer Exchange, Inc. > 6233 Idylwood Lane > Minneapolis, MN 55436 > email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com > phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 > > "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" > www.unioncomputer.com >

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Snmp traps
by Asbjørn Bjørkelund 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

Hello Toasters We are looking for some help for defining snmp traps, or to be more correct is there anybody who has already created lists with traps. i'm looking for 6-7 traps for example for Clusters: this filer is dead, Clusters: CFO this filer cannot takeover, CFO partner may be down, disk failed, power supply failed. Best Regards Asbjorn

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Network Appliance's used equipment policies
by ferdberfl＠netzero.com 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

I'm getting so confused. This statement posted on Network Appliance's web site looks clear to me, especially regarding the transferability of software licenses. I keep reading these postings from Scott at Union Computer exchange and they don't look anything like what Network appliance specifically says in writing here: http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html this looks kind of specific to me: All Network Appliance software license terms and conditions specify a "license to use," therefore software cannot legally transfer from one owner to another. Anyone purchasing used hardware equipment must also purchase new software licenses directly either from Network Appliance or from an authorized Network Appliance reseller. Software includes all protocols as well as streaming licenses, Snap products, and other software. Anyone trying to sell you "used software" would be violating the terms of the license. Support contracts such as warranty and maintenance agreements are also non-transferable ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 2:47 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: scott(a)unioncomputer.com Subject: Network Appliance's used equipment policies An active secondary market is developing for NetApp systems, parts, add-ons and maintenance. This market is enabling NetApp users to save money on current products as well as to secure out-of-production features, parts and add-ons that are no longer available from Network Appliance. Unfortunately -- and with increasing frequency -- we are hearing of NetApp sales reps making false statements about NetApp's used equipment policies. Examples are: 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's maintenance service agreement" 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under your existing NetApp service contract" 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp dealers" 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your filer's software license agreement" 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's software license agreement" 6) "NetApp has never negotiated transferable protocol licenses on new filer purchases." Should you ever be confronted with claims such as these, you might want to ask your NetApp rep to put them in writing ;-) Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" www.unioncomputer.com

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Signatures in emails to the list
by kyle 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

Please remove them when sending email to the list. They don't hold up in court and it's a eyesore.

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RE: why should app care?
by Alan McLachlan 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

Farid, This is not a simple issue. Here are a couple of possibilities: 1) The application needs to do direct disk I/O (block level). In this case, you're out of luck using a network drive and should look at SnapDrive VLD or FCP. Examples: Microsoft Exchange 2000, some products like some FileNet modules that do block I/O. 2) The application does a check and won't install. However, you may be able to install on local disk then move the location to a network drive later. Example: SAP R/3 on SQL Server. Hope this helps. -----Original Message----- From: Farid Hamjavar [mailto:hamjavar@unm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, 11 March 2003 11:24 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: why should app care? NetApp Release 6.3.1 greetings, We have encountered situations where when an application is installed on windows (2000 for example) , the application complains whether or not drive onto which it is installed is a real physical disk or a mounted CIFS share coming from the Netapp filer. If the drive happens to be a mounted CIFS share coming from the Netapp filer application either does not get installed and/or operates erroneously. Anyone encountered this? If so what's the solution or workaround? Thanks, Farid UNM **** ASI Solutions Disclaimer **** The material transmitted may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this in error, please notify the sender and destroy any copies of the material immediately. ASI will protect your Privacy according to the 10 Privacy Principles outlined under the new Privacy Act, Dec 2001. This email is also subject to copyright. Any use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. E-mails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. **** END OF MESSAGE ****

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RE: Weired Linux error
by Hill, Aaron 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

I have seen exactly the same nfs: not responding errors on some of my Solaris Servers. I also examined NFS at a very low level and showed no problems. Then I stumbled upon an article in NOW that explained the error to be harmless, more a nuisance than anything else. The performance of servers showing this error vs those not is virtually identical. However,I did not observe this error; Mar 9 06:38:36 linuxclient kernel: nfs: task 41929 can't get a request slot Mar 9 06:38:41 linuxclient kernel: nfs: task 43328 can't get a request slot Are you seeing any performance drops? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Premanshu Jain [mailto:Premanshu.Jain@synopsys.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:26 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Weired Linux error A few RedHat 7.2 nfs clients mounting a F840 volume via automount error out with the following. I have looked into everyting including NIS timeouts, filer sysstat, network performance and everything looks to be fine. Intrestingly all the other non linux Clients accessing the same auto-mount are working perfectly. Mar 9 06:35:12 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer OK Mar 9 06:35:13 linuxclient last message repeated 52 times Mar 9 06:35:31 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer not responding, still trying Mar 9 06:35:41 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer OK Mar 9 06:35:54 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer not responding, still trying Mar 9 06:36:34 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer OK Mar 9 06:36:46 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer not responding, still trying Mar 9 06:38:36 linuxclient kernel: nfs: task 41929 can't get a request slot Mar 9 06:38:41 linuxclient kernel: nfs: task 43328 can't get a request slot

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Re: Weired Linux error
by April Jenner 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

If you are using nfs version 3 on the Linux box, try these settings: filername:/vol/volpath /mntpoint nfs rw,bg,intr,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,tcp,noac,vers=3 If you are using a full-duplex network, you should not see any errors. If you are not, look at the output of ifstat and take, # of collisions + # of errors ------------------------------ divided by the total packets and multiple by 100%. The resulting percentage should be less than 5% or you definately have network problems. Hope this helps, --April ****************************************************** Sounds like RPC is working fine for you, otherwise NIS would have problems. Two thoughts, from when I've seen this in the past, for you: 1) Make sure you are using NFSv2. Linux NFSv3 is still fairly buggy. 2) Explicity define your read and write sizes. You might want to spec the retransmit as well, for now try adding the following client side mount options and see if things get better, if not tune the size alittle. Also don't use the intr option. use the options like this: mount -o rsize=8192,wsize=8192 server:/mount/point /localmount If these don't work for you, then sorry to say, it's a networking issue. Double check your NIC settings on the Linux client to make sure you are full duplex 100, if that's what your Filer is using. Use the linux tool "mii-tool" to check. Using "mii-tool -v" you can see what the current state is, and then use the tool again to force. If you exhast these, let me know. But one of the above should fix the problem. benr. On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 02:25:51PM -0800, Premanshu Jain wrote: > A few RedHat 7.2 nfs clients mounting a F840 volume via automount error out with > the following. I have looked into everyting including NIS timeouts, filer > sysstat, network performance and everything looks to be fine. Intrestingly all > the other non linux Clients accessing the same auto-mount are working perfectly. > > > Mar 9 06:35:12 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer OK > Mar 9 06:35:13 linuxclient last message repeated 52 times > Mar 9 06:35:31 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer not responding, still > trying > Mar 9 06:35:41 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer OK > Mar 9 06:35:54 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer not responding, still > trying > Mar 9 06:36:34 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer OK > Mar 9 06:36:46 linuxclient kernel: nfs: server filer not responding, still > trying > Mar 9 06:38:36 linuxclient kernel: nfs: task 41929 can't get a request slot > Mar 9 06:38:41 linuxclient kernel: nfs: task 43328 can't get a request slot > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/

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why should app care?
by Farid Hamjavar 11 Mar '03

11 Mar '03

NetApp Release 6.3.1 greetings, We have encountered situations where when an application is installed on windows (2000 for example) , the application complains whether or not drive onto which it is installed is a real physical disk or a mounted CIFS share coming from the Netapp filer. If the drive happens to be a mounted CIFS share coming from the Netapp filer application either does not get installed and/or operates erroneously. Anyone encountered this? If so what's the solution or workaround? Thanks, Farid UNM

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RE: CIFS Security
by Muhlestein, Mark 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

You can set up entries in your /etc/usermap.cfg to control access using the client's IP address. See http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/guides/53_troubleshooting/ umapdetail.shtml Don't worry that it says ONTAP 5.3. It's valid for any 5.3 or later release. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Robert Borowicz [mailto:rbaus@swbell.net] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:57 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: CIFS Security Newbie here.... I'm setting up a FAS940 with NFS/CIFS. Is there a way to limit the hosts to which CIFS can be shared. Ala NFS "access=hostname.com" ? Thanks -Bob B

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CIFS Security
by Robert Borowicz 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

Newbie here.... I'm setting up a FAS940 with NFS/CIFS. Is there a way to limit the hosts to which CIFS can be shared. Ala NFS "access=hostname.com" ? Thanks -Bob B

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RE: Network Appliance's used equipment policies
by Warmenhoven, Dan 10 Mar '03

10 Mar '03

Scott, I must disagree with your claims. Our used equipment policy is clearly documented, and is not as you stated. I suggest you read it at: http://www.netapp.com/support/ues.html Dan Warmenhoven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Warmenhoven dan(a)netapp.com Chief Executive Officer phone: 408-822-6600 Network Appliance, Inc. fax: 408-822-6603 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: ScottUCE(a)aol.com [mailto:ScottUCE@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 2:47 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: scott(a)unioncomputer.com Subject: Network Appliance's used equipment policies An active secondary market is developing for NetApp systems, parts, add-ons and maintenance. This market is enabling NetApp users to save money on current products as well as to secure out-of-production features, parts and add-ons that are no longer available from Network Appliance. Unfortunately -- and with increasing frequency -- we are hearing of NetApp sales reps making false statements about NetApp's used equipment policies. Examples are: 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's maintenance service agreement" 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under your existing NetApp service contract" 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp dealers" 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your filer's software license agreement" 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's software license agreement" 6) "NetApp has never negotiated transferable protocol licenses on new filer purchases." Should you ever be confronted with claims such as these, you might want to ask your NetApp rep to put them in writing ;-) Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" www.unioncomputer.com

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RE: SnapMirror delays.
by Ngoh, Clarence 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

Rich I'm aware of the snapmirror status -l option and by using it brought to my attention the size of the data that was being transferred. I've also used the SnapMirror log parser to get a better idea of the file transfer size, the duration, and the approximate transfer speed. Please find the output attached. Filer_A_SVR:filer_A => filer_dr_SVR:filer_A (Scheduled) transfer is completed. Start: Thu Mar 6 17:00:00 EST End: Fri Mar 7 05:38:01 EST Duration: 12:38:01 Transfer Size: (16472748 KB) Transfer rate: 21.222 MB/min Note that the snapmirror for this transfer was taken between the March 6 05:25 and March 06:11:09. This is how I concluded that it is betweent this two periods that 16GB of data was altered (at block level). Thanks for the clarification of the block level change, Rich. 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 11:09 filer_dr_SVR(0050385229)_filer_a.741 (busy,snapmirror) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 10:00 hourly.3 (busy) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 08:00 hourly.4 (busy) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 06:00 hourly.5 (busy) 1% ( 0%) 1% ( 0%) Mar 06 05:25 filer_dr_SVR(0050385229)_filer_a.740 (busy,snapmirror) To clarify the set up of our filers, we have three volumes, vol0, vol1, and vol2. Vol 1 and 2 contain qtrees. The different qtrees are for the different business groups. Now having said that the changes are most likely done at the block level, is there a utility that can tell us which qtree is making this whole lot of data change? Thanks. -- Clarence. > -----Original Message----- > From: Borders, Rich [mailto:Rich.Borders@netapp.com] > Sent: Friday, 7 March 2003 09:17 PM > To: Ngoh, Clarence; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: SnapMirror delays. > > > Have you tried the command line version < snapmirror status -l > for > extended output. It may be a little more helpful. It seems you are > checking status, and I am looking a little more for the 'actual' data > moving. Good SM Link: > http://now.netapp.com/AskNOW/highlight_html.jsp?url=http%3A%2F > %2Fnow.net > app.com%2FNOW%2Fknowledge%2Fdocs%2Fontap%2Frel631r1%2Fhtml%2Fo > ntap%2Fdpg > %2Fmirror19.htm&sentenceId=60257568&titleIds=60257567%2C602575 > 66%2C60257 > 562#1548676 > > The actual data moving is block level, so there really is not a true > concept of 'files' If you have a DB in the snap destination that is > moving only changed blocks IN the DB then you are not really moving a > file. Just block updates IN the file. > > You may be aware of this, so maybe you could be more specific in your > question. Also, just for more info, is this QSM, or volume level? > > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ngoh, Clarence [mailto:clarence.ngoh@cba.com.au] > > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:04 PM > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > > > Hi folks > > > > I am having some difficulties tracking down a particular user > > or qtree that is causing delays on our SnapMirror process. > > The most relevant information of our setup are this: > > > > Filer head : FAS940 > > OS: DOT 6.3.1 > > Filername : Let's call it "FilerA" > > OS to troubleshoot from : Windows, but open sourced solutions > > welcomed. > > > > Filer A contains several different qtrees with different > > business units. > > Every so often, the snapshots are SnapMirrored to our DR > > site. Of late, we noticed that FilerA is lagging behind the > > DR site by a fair amount of time > > -- 16 hours. The amount of data transferred for this period > > is around 15 GB. > > > > Please do not offer solutions regarding network latency, as > > the amount of data change is the cause of the lag. > > > > I would like to trace the particular user or qtree that is > > making this changes. We are using DFM 2.1 for W2K server. > > DFM did not register data deletions or additions for any > > business unit -- I suspect then that data changes are the > > culprits, but where is this coming from? > > > > > > Cheers > > Clarence. > > > > > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** > > This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and > > contains information which may be confidential. If you are > > not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return > > email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the > > message and any attachments from your system. Unless > > specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal > > advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank > > of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. > > ************************************************** > > > > >

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Network Appliance's used equipment policies
by ScottUCE＠aol.com 09 Mar '03

09 Mar '03

An active secondary market is developing for NetApp systems, parts, add-ons and maintenance. This market is enabling NetApp users to save money on current products as well as to secure out-of-production features, parts and add-ons that are no longer available from Network Appliance. Unfortunately -- and with increasing frequency -- we are hearing of NetApp sales reps making false statements about NetApp's used equipment policies. Examples are: 1) "The installation of used NetApp add-ons will void your filer's maintenance service agreement" 2) "If you buy used NetApp add-ons, you will be required to pay NetApp's recertification fee, even if you elect not to place these add-ons under your existing NetApp service contract" 3) "Used NetApp gear can only be purchased from "authorized" NetApp dealers" 4) "3rd party maintenance coverage is not allowed, as it will void your filer's software license agreement" 5) "Allowing hardware or software coverage to lapse will void your filer's software license agreement" 6) "NetApp has never negotiated transferable protocol licenses on new filer purchases." Should you ever be confronted with claims such as these, you might want to ask your NetApp rep to put them in writing ;-) Scott Fischmann Union Computer Exchange, Inc. 6233 Idylwood Lane Minneapolis, MN 55436 email: scott(a)unioncomputer.com phone: 952 935 7282 | fax: 952 935 5056 "Helping our customers make each dollar go further -- since 1991!" www.unioncomputer.com

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

At this stage I do not think this is a snapmirror issue. There are a lot of people out there successfully doing transfers over higher latency links than the 20Mbit I have. I was unintentionally misleading with the "ftp between filers" statement. The transfer was actually between 2 unix hosts that had directories mounted on the filers. So there are differences in the way the tcp traffic will be handled. It does establish that the network setup we currently have CAN be saturated. However, it does not establish that we have it setup optimally for the snapmirror we are trying to do. After talking with some very good NetApp engineers, we decided to do a more specific test limited to filer-filer communication by doing; 1) A snapmirror on the same network segment to an R100. This is underway now using exactly the same volumes as I have mentioned. 2) An NDMPcopy directly to the DR/target filer. This will need to wait unitl a "quiet" time on the WAN so I can hog it and not affect the already slow snapmirror. The results of these should be able to help us further define whether snapmirror is the issue or not. A tool suggested by another toasters member is pchar. I am very keen to put it on my network between sites and see what it spits out. Just don't feel like working all weekend!! Thanks, Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Todd C. Merrill [mailto:tmerrill@mathworks.com] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 7:18 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Hill, Aaron wrote: > 6) ftp transfers have been tested between filers and these saturate > the 20Mbit immediately How do you do this, ftp directly between filers? The fact that *this* filer-to-filer communication saturates the link seems to be quite damning to snapmirror... Until next time... The MathWorks, Inc. 508-647-7000 x7792 3 Apple Hill Drive, Natick, MA 01760-2098 508-647-7001 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

Hey, thanks for the info. Here is the network path; Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 Router 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE Target Filer The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the VLAN given to us. Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. See anything else in there causing an issue? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:40:11PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > Hi people, > What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing > across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror > data stream? I had a setup with three F840 clusters mirroring to a single F840 cluster using a 100Mbps tunnel. During the initial full copy this saturated the tunnel, the subsequent incremental updates were on a much lower level (4-8Mbps), because there weren't that many changes to the data. When I paused the mirror for a while and then resumed it, the then much bigger update again saturated the tunnel. The filers all had GigE and for the tunnel a dedicated GigE each, so that snapmirror traffic didn't compete with regular accesses. The filers were connected to Catalyst6509s that had a 100TX link to the tunnel routers. I am a bit confused what the "dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link" of yours is exactly. If that's some kind of allocated bandwidth or subject to traffic shaping, it could easily explain the bad utilization. Greetings, -- Michael van Elst Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Borders, Rich 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

Hi guys, I am replying in-line ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de] > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 8:48 PM > To: Hill, Aaron > Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > > On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 06:31:18PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > > Hey, thanks for the info. > > > > Here is the network path; > > > > Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- > > 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 > > Router 100/FastE > > ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE > Target Filer I see a pair of 3660's in the middle. Are they one of the first ones you had? They are fast and they are 'divisional' class routers. They can operate HSSI interfaces up to DS3 speeds effectively, but take a look at the processing of them. What is the cpu utilization. You are most likely using the FA0/0 and FA 0/1, but just asking. Are you doing any routing protocols, ect? I am digging so please bear with me. I am pointing out potential issues. Also make sure you have the full version IOS on these routers. When I got my first pair, I was doing DS3's to a web site, and I got a pre-release of the cisco IOS on there. Just something to check. We did upgrade, because of a bug. ( harware related ) Look at the couters on the int's for ANY errors. If you packets are seeing any issues, then you will see it there. Also, at 20 megabit, you will see about 1.6 megabytes MAX theoretical. Are you ever seeing that anywhere? FTP, makefiles ect.? Try to establish the baseline. I saw you say you got it from ftp, but that speed? Just curious. > > The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the > VLAN given > > to us. I have seen AT&T do this here in the US. You can get good speeds, but it is burst. > > Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. > > > > See anything else in there causing an issue? Not off hand. Anything else happening on the WAN when you are doing this? Are you getting dedicate CIR rates from the carrier. Do you have any TSU's or DSU like terminaing devices. Check framing. I think that it is possible that the filer can POUND that link into a submissive state. That is not to say we shouldn't get max speeds, but snapmirror CAN be unrelenting. You need to try and harden the link, and packet shaping can help. The original request to turn on flow control is good if you have the option. This will aid the source and destination in any fragmentation or retrans type issues. Are you seeing any errors in the ifstat information. CRC, checksum errors, anything? > I would start looking at flow-control settings for the GigE > on the 4006 and also verify the MTU sizes on each interface > to rule out packet fragmentation. Sounds good. > But I still suspect the 20Mbps bandwidth limit to have a > significant effect. To make this more visible you could > enable traffic shaping on your routers with a slightly smaller limit. This will keep you from crippling the link. Snapmirror was designed with campus speeds in mind. The throttle came when wan and DR was introduced. If you can throttle to 1.7 megabit, the you will see a possible performance increase. Sort of like stopping a potential 'downward spiral'. > -- > Michael van Elst > Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de > "A potential Snark may lurk > in every tree." Rich B

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RE: SnapMirror delays.
by Borders, Rich 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

Have you tried the command line version < snapmirror status -l > for extended output. It may be a little more helpful. It seems you are checking status, and I am looking a little more for the 'actual' data moving. Good SM Link: http://now.netapp.com/AskNOW/highlight_html.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnow.net app.com%2FNOW%2Fknowledge%2Fdocs%2Fontap%2Frel631r1%2Fhtml%2Fontap%2Fdpg %2Fmirror19.htm&sentenceId=60257568&titleIds=60257567%2C60257566%2C60257 562#1548676 The actual data moving is block level, so there really is not a true concept of 'files' If you have a DB in the snap destination that is moving only changed blocks IN the DB then you are not really moving a file. Just block updates IN the file. You may be aware of this, so maybe you could be more specific in your question. Also, just for more info, is this QSM, or volume level? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: Ngoh, Clarence [mailto:clarence.ngoh@cba.com.au] > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:04 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Hi folks > > I am having some difficulties tracking down a particular user > or qtree that is causing delays on our SnapMirror process. > The most relevant information of our setup are this: > > Filer head : FAS940 > OS: DOT 6.3.1 > Filername : Let's call it "FilerA" > OS to troubleshoot from : Windows, but open sourced solutions > welcomed. > > Filer A contains several different qtrees with different > business units. > Every so often, the snapshots are SnapMirrored to our DR > site. Of late, we noticed that FilerA is lagging behind the > DR site by a fair amount of time > -- 16 hours. The amount of data transferred for this period > is around 15 GB. > > Please do not offer solutions regarding network latency, as > the amount of data change is the cause of the lag. > > I would like to trace the particular user or qtree that is > making this changes. We are using DFM 2.1 for W2K server. > DFM did not register data deletions or additions for any > business unit -- I suspect then that data changes are the > culprits, but where is this coming from? > > > Cheers > Clarence. > > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** > This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and > contains information which may be confidential. If you are > not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return > email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the > message and any attachments from your system. Unless > specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal > advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank > of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. > ************************************************** > >

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

The VLAN is over a UECOMM Fibre Metropolitan Area Network. I really am not sure exactly what carrier equipment is on that loop. I am guessing fibre switches. As far as I can tell, all they do is give us a VLAN with bandwidth throttled to whatever we pay for. For example, for our initial transfers we have had them ramp it up to 100Mbit for 24 hours. Thanks, Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [mailto:jeff.mohler@netapp.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:28 PM To: Hill, Aaron; 'Michael van Elst' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Snapmirror throughput question This Vlan, is it delivered over ATM? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@navitaire.com] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:31 PM To: 'Michael van Elst' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Snapmirror throughput question Hey, thanks for the info. Here is the network path; Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 Router 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE Target Filer The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the VLAN given to us. Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. See anything else in there causing an issue? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:40:11PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > Hi people, > What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing > across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror > data stream? I had a setup with three F840 clusters mirroring to a single F840 cluster using a 100Mbps tunnel. During the initial full copy this saturated the tunnel, the subsequent incremental updates were on a much lower level (4-8Mbps), because there weren't that many changes to the data. When I paused the mirror for a while and then resumed it, the then much bigger update again saturated the tunnel. The filers all had GigE and for the tunnel a dedicated GigE each, so that snapmirror traffic didn't compete with regular accesses. The filers were connected to Catalyst6509s that had a 100TX link to the tunnel routers. I am a bit confused what the "dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link" of yours is exactly. If that's some kind of allocated bandwidth or subject to traffic shaping, it could easily explain the bad utilization. Greetings, -- Michael van Elst Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

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RE: Snapmirror throughput question
by Mohler, Jeff 07 Mar '03

07 Mar '03

This Vlan, is it delivered over ATM? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@navitaire.com <mailto:aaron.hill@navitaire.com> ] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 4:31 PM To: 'Michael van Elst' Cc: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Snapmirror throughput question Hey, thanks for the info. Here is the network path; Source Filer GigE ----- GigE on 4006 Cisco switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 3660 Router 100/FastE ==== 20M VLAN ==== 100/FastE 3600 Router 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE 2924 Cisco Switch 100/FastE ---- 100/FastE Target Filer The VLAN carrier, UECOMM tells us no traffic shaping on the VLAN given to us. Our network team has no traffic shaping on the 3660 nor the 3600. See anything else in there causing an issue? Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Michael van Elst [mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de <mailto:mlelstv@serpens.de> ] Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:44 AM To: Hill, Aaron Subject: Re: Snapmirror throughput question On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 04:40:11PM -0600, Hill, Aaron wrote: > Hi people, > What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing > across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror > data stream? I had a setup with three F840 clusters mirroring to a single F840 cluster using a 100Mbps tunnel. During the initial full copy this saturated the tunnel, the subsequent incremental updates were on a much lower level (4-8Mbps), because there weren't that many changes to the data. When I paused the mirror for a while and then resumed it, the then much bigger update again saturated the tunnel. The filers all had GigE and for the tunnel a dedicated GigE each, so that snapmirror traffic didn't compete with regular accesses. The filers were connected to Catalyst6509s that had a 100TX link to the tunnel routers. I am a bit confused what the "dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link" of yours is exactly. If that's some kind of allocated bandwidth or subject to traffic shaping, it could easily explain the bad utilization. Greetings, -- Michael van Elst Internet: mlelstv(a)serpens.de "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."

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RE: A humble plea from a novice.
by Ngoh, Clarence 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

John Do you have an account with now.netapp.com? It provides a wealth of resources online and this includes manuals that come with the toasters :) You may find the following manuals useful: 1. The system administrator's guide 2. Data Protection Guide 3. Command Reference. This should get you started with the basic commands and setups. Regards, Clarence Ngoh Institutional Banking Services, Technology Office Level 5, 48 Martin Place Sydney, 2000 (o): +612 9378 5967 | (f): 02 9378 5202 | (e):clarence.ngoh@cba.com.au > -----Original Message----- > From: John Enger [mailto:john@johnenger.com] > Sent: Friday, 7 March 2003 09:38 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: A humble plea from a novice. > > > I have just gotten hold of an old 2nd hand NetApp F330. > I got it because I'm curious and l love to learn new things > hands on. Most of my skills have been picked up by troubling > and searching for info and so forth, but when it comes to the > NetApp, things are very different. > > What I need is a good source of info on how it works, a prom > monitor command map or similar. Where/how the OS is stored, > very common info. I have been searching the net for this, but > found nothing so far. > > I found you guys, but your discussions are way too advanced > for me to participate in or to understand much of. At least > until I get my own up and running... :o) > > So does anyone of you have a tip on where such info might be > available? If it's at all available? > > > Thanks! > > John > > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. **************************************************

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Snapmirror throughput question
by Hill, Aaron 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

Hi people, What are the maximum data throughputs that Snapmirroring people are seeing across a WAN? Is anyone seeing 15-20+ Mbit bandwidth usage from a snapmirror data stream? The reason I ask is because I have a dedicated 20Mbit Ethernet link between 2 filers and am only seeing a maximum of 6-8Mbit of that available 20Mbit being used by snapmirror. Details; 1) No CPU or disk bottlenecking on source or target 2) Source is F880 target F820 3) 3 snapmirror streams at volume level 4) Approximately 30-60 Gb of data per volume is snapmirrored per day. 5) 20Mbit WAN is about 95% dedicated to Snapmirror. The rest is small ftp, http traffic etc. 6) ftp transfers have been tested between filers and these saturate the 20Mbit immediately 7) snapmirror.conf is set to transfer at 6am each day. Current kbs=10000. i.e. 1 transfer per volume per day. This is for Disaster recovery synchronization requirements. 8) No packets are being dropped on the switch interface. 9) Single 1000Mbit Interface on source filer, 100Mbit interface on target. 10) Neither interface shows saturation. 11) Unix clients only at both source and target filers. 98%+ would be NFS traffic. Now, NetApp support informs me that even if I had a dedicated VLAN between filer interfaces across the 20Mbit, I cannot expect to see full utilization. I do not believe this. Someone out there must be transferring large amounts of data across a WAN and have seen higher throughput. If you are seeing higher throughput rates, what type of setup do you have? Things I am currently considering; - multiple qtrees snapmirrored. i.e. more snapmirror streams results in more throughput - multiple snapmirror transfers per day - dedicated VLAN between source and target Any expert advice here would be appreciated. Thanks, Aaron www.navitaire.com

1 0

A humble plea from a novice.
by John Enger 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

I have just gotten hold of an old 2nd hand NetApp F330. I got it because I'm curious and l love to learn new things hands on. Most of my skills have been picked up by troubling and searching for info and so forth, but when it comes to the NetApp, things are very different. What I need is a good source of info on how it works, a prom monitor command map or similar. Where/how the OS is stored, very common info. I have been searching the net for this, but found nothing so far. I found you guys, but your discussions are way too advanced for me to participate in or to understand much of. At least until I get my own up and running... :o) So does anyone of you have a tip on where such info might be available? If it's at all available? Thanks! John

1 0

SnapMirror delays.
by Ngoh, Clarence 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

Hi folks I am having some difficulties tracking down a particular user or qtree that is causing delays on our SnapMirror process. The most relevant information of our setup are this: Filer head : FAS940 OS: DOT 6.3.1 Filername : Let's call it "FilerA" OS to troubleshoot from : Windows, but open sourced solutions welcomed. Filer A contains several different qtrees with different business units. Every so often, the snapshots are SnapMirrored to our DR site. Of late, we noticed that FilerA is lagging behind the DR site by a fair amount of time -- 16 hours. The amount of data transferred for this period is around 15 GB. Please do not offer solutions regarding network latency, as the amount of data change is the cause of the lag. I would like to trace the particular user or qtree that is making this changes. We are using DFM 2.1 for W2K server. DFM did not register data deletions or additions for any business unit -- I suspect then that data changes are the culprits, but where is this coming from? Cheers Clarence. ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. **************************************************

1 0

wafl scan
by Ambrose_Earle＠shamrockfoods.com 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

Does anyone have any (good) experience with the wafl scan commands? I am testing Snapmirror and used it to mirror 7x34's to 10x34's. Of course, the data was only written to the first seven drives, so I used 'wafl scan reallocate <volume>' and it seemed to improve the layout quite dramatically. Is this a good use of the command? Other than affecting performance, I'm assuming everything is accessible during the run of this command? Thanks in advance,

2 1

RE: Disk writes occuring when no network activity?
by Art Hebert 06 Mar '03

06 Mar '03

What I did was completely wipe out the netapp and reinstall 6.1.2R3. We are reracking our qa lab so I figured it would be a good time to let our Microsoft admin get to learn how to install a netapp, etc. So its a fresh install and before we put our databases back on it I did a sysstat and noticed the activity. I've let it run overnight so maybe the memory scrubs are finished and that was the activity. I am hoping at some point we can upgrade the netapps we have to the 960's and I can maybe get to attend Netapp training to get some inside knowledge of the boxes. We are running on a nonexistant budget and its tough supporting all this gear without maintenance contracts. art -----Original Message----- From: Borders, Rich [mailto:Rich.Borders@netapp.com] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:52 AM To: Art Hebert; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Disk writes occuring when no network activity? Disk Scrubs? Did you just upgrade? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Art Hebert [mailto:art@arzoon.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:02 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > > Would anybody know why I have disk writes occurring on my > netapp when it is completely disconnected from the network. > It is doing memory scrubs, but would this cause writes to the disk? > > Here is what sysstat looks like. As you can see there isn't > any nfs, cifs or http activity. On my other filers that are > hooked up to a network the Disk writes go to zero when there > isn't any activity. > > smf760-01*> sysstat 1 > CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape > kB/s Cache > in out read write read > write age > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 762 0 > 0 59 > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 740 0 > 0 59 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 752 0 > 0 59 > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 764 0 > 0 59 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 788 0 > 0 59 > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 788 0 > 0 59 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 784 0 > 0 59 > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 808 0 > 0 59 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 804 0 > 0 59 > 3% 0 0 0 0 0 156 1108 0 > 0 59 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 824 0 > 0 60 > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 868 0 > 0 60 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 888 0 > 0 60 > 4% 0 0 0 0 0 0 880 0 > 0 60 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 844 0 > 0 60 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 892 0 > 0 60 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 872 0 > 0 60 > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 880 0 > 0 60 > 2% 0 0 0 0 0 0 884 0 > 0 60 > CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape > kB/s Cache > in out read write read > write age > 1% 0 0 0 0 0 0 852 0 > 0 60 > 4% 0 0 0 0 0 164 1148 0 > 0 60 > > Thanks > > art >

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