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13531 discussions

AW: LTO-2 drives issues
by Rene Koehnen-Wiesemes 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

I think that your emulation does't work well, Netapp use this data as tape configuration file for IBM Ultrium-2 (IBM_LTO2_ULTRIUM.TCF): # Configuration file for tape drive IBM LTO Gen2 AKA ULTRIUM-TD2 # Rev. 1.0 vendor_id="IBM" product_id="ULTRIUM-TD2" id_match_size=11 vendor_pretty="IBM" product_pretty="ULTRIUM-TD2" l_description="LTO-I tape only 100GB" l_density=0x40 l_algorithm=0x00 m_description="LTO-I tape 200GB cmp" m_density=0x40 m_algorithm=0x01 h_description="LTO-II tape only 200GB" h_density=0x42 h_algorithm=0x00 a_description="LTO-II tape 400GB cmp" a_density=0x42 a_algorithm=0x01 autoload="yes" CDB 0x15 is SCSI-Mode Select Command, h_density=0x42 and h_algorithm are correct values for the original IBM tape, apparently not for your drive - you got an Illegal Request Error. Try to find out what your drive expect there - it should be described in the "scsci programmers guide" for your drive. Good luck, Rene -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Carlos A. Alvarez [mailto:carlosa@ddmsa.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. November 2004 20:57 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: LTO-2 drives issues Hi All, I installed a Library StorageTek L80 with one drive LTO2 Certance Ultrium 2 connected via SCSI LVD to Filer F840 with Ontap 6.4.3. This release does not support LTO 2 so I dynamically qualified a IBM Ultrium-TD2. Then I emulated Certance Ultrium 2 as IBM Ultrium-TD2 with success. But a error appears when I try to use LTO2 format (rst4a/h), wich is displayed but not recognized. Does someone suffer a similar issue? Thanks bafiler01> mt -f rst4a status Tue Nov 9 20:15:13 ART [scsi.cmd.checkCondition:error]: Device 2a.1: Check Cond ition: CDB 0x15: Sense Data SCSI:illegal request - (0x5 - 0x26 0x0 0x0)(2). Tape drive: CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 Status: ready, write enabled Format: LTO-I tape only 100GB fileno = 0 blockno = 0 resid = 0 bafiler01> sysconfig -t Tape drive (2a.1) CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 emulates ULTRIUM-TD2 rst4l - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB nrst4l - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB urst4l - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB rst4m - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp nrst4m - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp urst4m - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp rst4h - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB nrst4h - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB urst4h - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB rst4a - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp nrst4a - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp urst4a - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp

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Exchange growth after migration.
by Darren Dunham 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Danger, I'm not a windows person, so I'm a little over my head on part of this. I've got a client that has just completed a migration of their Exchange 2000 servers onto a netapp iscsi lun with snapmanager. So far everything seems to be working great on the netapp side. However, after running on the server for two weeks, their private store has jumped from about 120G to about 220G. Some of their support is suggesting that the standard Exchange backup process has some cleanup functions that run during the backup. Now that it doesn't run any longer with snapmanager in place, the cleanup is no longer performed and the DB grows out of control (unless you shut down and do a defrag). Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm looking for confirmation, refutation, or hey, even solutions on this. I'm hoping there are similar environments out there. Specifically, a larger database (such that the nightly cleanup process can't tackle the entire store overnight). Please don't ask me for anything that requires debugging. I'm not the windows guy. I'm just trying to find out if this growth has occurred at other sites. It's been escalated with both Netapp and Microsoft, but no word yet on if this is expected behavior. Thanks! -- Darren Dunham ddunham(a)taos.com Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/ Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. >

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RE: Exchange growth after migration.
by Benn, Paul 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Hi Sto Rage (sorry, don't know your real name), You are correct in that SME is "Exchange aware." This option is not available in Exchange 5.5, which might explain why you do not see it on your server. If this is what I think it is, it is likely to be what Paul Galjan writes of below. If so, this is a known issue and is documented in NetApp online bug 53144 and also on page 92 of the SnapManager for Exchange version 3.1 Installation and Administration Guide. Here is a direct link to the article for those of you who want to read about it and have access to NOW. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=53144 Basically, Exchange 2000 and Exchange Server 2003 have an option of "Do not permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has been backed up." The option itself should be self explanatory. The issue is that in order for this feature to function, the entire database needs to be read during the backup process. This happens when you spool to tape or to a .BKF file, for example. SnapManager uses snapshot technology to perform the backup process so it does not read the entire database as part of the backup. This is simply a limitation of Exchange 2000 that is exposed when using snapshot technology to perform backups and is *not* limited to Network Appliance filers or to SnapManager for Exchange itself. This Exchange option is *disabled* by default, which could also explain why you did not run into the unexplained growth. There are three ways to get around this issue: 1) Disable the Exchange 2000 option of "Do not permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has been backed up." 2) Run a copy-type backup in addition to the SnapManager backups using an Exchange aware backup application, such as NTBackup. This is what Paul Galjan suggested below. This can be done, say, once per week and could be spooled to a .BKF file versus a tape device. Some SnapManager customers create backup archives by creating a copy type backup anyway. Doing so would not only provide a backup archive but would also provide a work around to the above mentioned issue. 3) Move to Exchange Server 2003 on Windows Server 2003 to get the VSS technology. When running this combination of Exchange and Windows, VSS is used to create the snapshots. The issue does *not* apply to SME backups performed via VSS. I realize that this may not be an option for everyone but I am just calling it out as another way to solve the problem. I hope this sheds some light on the issue. Please let us know if further clarification is needed. Regards, Paul Benn SnapManager Engineering Network Appliance > -----Original Message----- > From: Sto Rage(c) [mailto:netbacker@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:06 PM > To: Paul Galjan > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Exchange growth after migration. > > Are you sure of this? I thought when you schedule SnapManager for > Exchange (SME) backups to create the snapshots, Exchange is aware of > the full backup being done and it will truncate the transaction logs > and also delete the items deleted as specified in the Limits tab. When > you look at the database tab, it should show the time of the last full > backup which would correspond to the last snapshot taken via SME. > Am I wrong? We too recently migrated our exchange env to a netapp > platform and haven't noticed any major database bloat (yet?). We do > have the option "Donot delete .... until the store has been backed up" > checked. Well, maybe our users don't delete any mails ;) > > Darren, the question you should ask your Exch admin is ... are they > using SME for scheduling the backups or someother means. Ask them to > look at the database tab and see if it has a time recored for full > backups. The time for incrementals would be none, since SME doesn't do > an incremental backup. > Hope this helps. > > -G > > > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:40:46 -0500, Paul Galjan > <galjan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > > > Tech support is correct if you have some the checkbox > "Uncheck "Do not > > permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has > been backed > > up" > > > > The problems lies in the difference between the way > NTbackup and other > > Exchange-aware backup programs and snapshot backup programs like SME > > work. When other backup programs do a backup, all blocks are read > > from the DB, and Exchange knows that items can be deleted "for real" > > after the blocks have been read. When SME (or any other > > snapshot-based program, for that matter), does a backup, the blocks > > are read by eseutil, but only after the backup is done, and > it's done > > on the snapshot (not the active DB), so Exchange doesn't > know to clean > > up deleted items. > > > > This is an issue with any snapshot-based Exchange backup program. > > Right now, Microsoft doesn't have any special hooks into its backup > > API to allow this cleanup to be invoked after a snapshot. (I don't > > know if/when that's coming). The workaround right now is to either > > turn that option off in Exchange, or run occasional copy-only backup > > jobs with ntbackup or somesuch. > > > > More information on how to turn this option off is here: > > http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/MF022.html > > > > --paul > > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:55:28 -0800 (PST), Darren Dunham > > > > > > <ddunham(a)taos.com> wrote: > > > Danger, I'm not a windows person, so I'm a little over my > head on part > > > of this. > > > > > > I've got a client that has just completed a migration of their > > > Exchange 2000 servers onto a netapp iscsi lun with > snapmanager. So > > > far everything seems to be working great on the netapp side. > > > > > > However, after running on the server for two weeks, their > private store > > > has jumped from about 120G to about 220G. Some of their > support is > > > suggesting that the standard Exchange backup process has > some cleanup > > > functions that run during the backup. Now that it doesn't run any > > > longer with snapmanager in place, the cleanup is no > longer performed and > > > the DB grows out of control (unless you shut down and do > a defrag). > > > > > > Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm looking for confirmation, > > > refutation, or hey, even solutions on this. I'm hoping there are > > > similar environments out there. Specifically, a larger > database (such > > > that the nightly cleanup process can't tackle the entire store > > > overnight). > > > > > > Please don't ask me for anything that requires debugging. > I'm not the > > > windows guy. I'm just trying to find out if this growth > has occurred at > > > other sites. It's been escalated with both Netapp and > Microsoft, but no > > > word yet on if this is expected behavior. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > -- > > > Darren Dunham > ddunham(a)taos.com > > > Senior Technical Consultant TAOS > http://www.taos.com/ > > > Got some Dr Pepper? San > Francisco, CA bay area > > > < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. > > > > > > >

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wafl scan measure_layout
by SKIP HOFMANN 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Hello all I have an exchange 5.5 database on a FAS 250 filer. When I run the waffle scan on the vol that holds the exchange DB it comes back pretty good. The database is around 50 gigs. My question is can I use the wafl scan measure layout command to effectively determine when my DB needs to be defragged? Skip Skip Hofmann Senior Network Administrator TetraTech Skip.Hofmann(a)ttisg.com <mailto:Skip.Hofmann@ttisg.com> 949 500 5286 cell 949 608 5801 office

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Re: spares disks no more equivalent from one filer to another one
by Davin Milun 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

At 14:33, on Oct 26, 2004, Stephane wrote: > Derek Lai wrote: > > >I will not work either with just a simple spares_zero command (which > >only zeros a spare). The problems is DataOntap will refuse to put the drives > >into the system. You have to completely rewrite the label on the drive. To > >do so requires that you reboot and drop into the maintenance menu and then > >pick the option to re-label the drive. > > > yes, type ^C at boot, but instead of choosing "maintenance mode" choice > 5, choose "zeroing all disk" choice 4 > this my workaround : this erase all label on all disk (and all data so > beware) > zeroing doesn't have to terminate, run it only for 5 or 15 minutes Does anyone know if the "label" command from "priv set diag" can be used (running from a pre-6.5 filer)? Is anyone willing to share the syntax for that command, as I don't have a non-production filer to play on. Basically, I have 3 disks that were inadvertently inserting into a box running 6.5 - and I'd like to reclaim them for use under 6.4, but without having to have a head down in maint mode to do so. Thanks. Davin. -- Davin Milun Email: milun-at-cse.Buffalo.EDU milun-at-acm.org

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LTO-2 drives issues
by Carlos A. Alvarez 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Hi All, I installed a Library StorageTek L80 with one drive LTO2 Certance Ultrium 2 connected via SCSI LVD to Filer F840 with Ontap 6.4.3. This release does not support LTO 2 so I dynamically qualified a IBM Ultrium-TD2. Then I emulated Certance Ultrium 2 as IBM Ultrium-TD2 with success. But a error appears when I try to use LTO2 format (rst4a/h), wich is displayed but not recognized. Does someone suffer a similar issue? Thanks bafiler01> mt -f rst4a status Tue Nov 9 20:15:13 ART [scsi.cmd.checkCondition:error]: Device 2a.1: Check Cond ition: CDB 0x15: Sense Data SCSI:illegal request - (0x5 - 0x26 0x0 0x0)(2). Tape drive: CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 Status: ready, write enabled Format: LTO-I tape only 100GB fileno = 0 blockno = 0 resid = 0 bafiler01> sysconfig -t Tape drive (2a.1) CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 emulates ULTRIUM-TD2 rst4l - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB nrst4l - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB urst4l - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB rst4m - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp nrst4m - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp urst4m - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp rst4h - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB nrst4h - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB urst4h - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB rst4a - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp nrst4a - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp urst4a - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp

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RE: Simulator error
by aaron hirsch 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Gentoo Linux with the 2.6.9 kernel on one box,i386, and 2.6.7 kernel on a Opeteron box. -----Original Message----- From: Kleinbrahm, Bob [mailto:rkleinbrahm@firstrepublic.com] Sent: Wed 11/10/2004 1:16 PM To: aaron hirsch; toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: Subject: RE: Simulator error What versin of Linux are you running? I had a similar error when I was running RH 7.2 and upgraded to Fedora to get rid of the error. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of aaron hirsch Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Simulator error All, I'm attempting to get the DOT simulator running for demo purposes and am getting the following error when I run runsim.sh: maytag.L[5706]: segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000008aa1d47 rsp 0000000055a3e398 error 6 Anyone have any ideas of where to start to troubleshoot this problem? TIA! Aaron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

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RE: Simulator error
by Kleinbrahm, Bob 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

What versin of Linux are you running? I had a similar error when I was running RH 7.2 and upgraded to Fedora to get rid of the error. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of aaron hirsch Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Simulator error All, I'm attempting to get the DOT simulator running for demo purposes and am getting the following error when I run runsim.sh: maytag.L[5706]: segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000008aa1d47 rsp 0000000055a3e398 error 6 Anyone have any ideas of where to start to troubleshoot this problem? TIA! Aaron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

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Simulator error
by aaron hirsch 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

All, I'm attempting to get the DOT simulator running for demo purposes and am getting the following error when I run runsim.sh: maytag.L[5706]: segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000008aa1d47 rsp 0000000055a3e398 error 6 Anyone have any ideas of where to start to troubleshoot this problem? TIA! Aaron

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Using unsipported FC switches
by graeme_taylor＠agilent.com 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Hi, We're currently looking at replacing our F820 with a FAS270. We'd like to take advantage of the library(ADIC Scalar 10K) we already have attached to our backup SAN. Unfortunately the SAN is based around EMC Connectrix switches(ED-64M). Not something NetApp seem to support. No surprise there really :) Just wondering if anyone is successfully using a FC backup solution that makes use of non-supported FC switches, and if so what the vendor is. Graeme.

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RE: Using unsipported FC switches
by Garavito, Donald, CTR, OSD-ATL 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

FYI, Per Veritas HCL for Veritas Storage Solution (another EMC subsidary): McData ED6064 Switch = EMC ED64M = HP StorageWorks SAN Directory 2/64 = HP SureStore FC 64 So, the NetApp-McData compatibility listing will apply. Hope this helps out. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:03 AM Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Using unsipported FC switches try to talk about this issue to your sale represent. Netapp is continuouslly integrating compatibility w/ different SAN product. Your case may reflect a general and/or help netapp in his work. graeme_taylor(a)agilent.com wrote: >Hi, > >We're currently looking at replacing our F820 with a FAS270. We'd like >to take advantage of the library(ADIC Scalar 10K) we already have >attached to our backup SAN. Unfortunately the SAN is based around EMC >Connectrix switches(ED-64M). Not something NetApp seem to support. No >surprise there really :) > >Just wondering if anyone is successfully using a FC backup solution >that makes use of non-supported FC switches, and if so what the vendor >is. > >Graeme. > > >

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DR ANTONIO SYLVESTER
by dr_as4＠handbag.com 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

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RE: F740 at home -- please help me!
by Ben Rockwood 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

I will remind you Edward that many of the users who wish to use Filers at home are trying to improve their skills. Obviously buying a couple 200G IDE/SATA disks is a better solution, but give us fellas who like to hack at home because it's all we've got a little credit. :) This only strikes a nerve with me because it's at the heart of the old legal issues of off-support heads. benr. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Edward Valencia Sent: Sun 11/7/2004 12:24 PM To: mikka makka Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! You must like to waste electricity this is a wrothless product to have at home. Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines combined. Also the rate that the disk failures occur on such old systems you will need alot of spares, the cost isnt worth it. Sell it on ebay or something and use the money to build the system described. To be able to download the software for your netapps, you will need to register the heads and then see if they have the software entitlement enabled. As I said these systems are worthless for home usage. Since netapp makes thier money on supporting the harwdware, than the hardware itself. The cost to enable parts replacements on 13 F760s for us was 135k a year. Ten thousand a year for next day support and a nfs license. Tells you alot. Edwardv- mikka makka wrote: > Hi all, > > Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB > disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk > began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of > commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before > total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the > same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried > swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a > hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the > drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but > that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for > some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be > zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the > Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into > a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for > the system, I gave up. > > Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also > with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. > Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the > "Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without > even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. > > I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of > the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a > "File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since > the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can > proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original > file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and > make a new one. > > The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare > F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks > (and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). > That's 900GB of storage. > > I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the > 740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start > afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and > floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to > proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command > prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need > to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... > > Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever > grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- > amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using > only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four > disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm > truly stuck without documentation > > Thanks so much for any help you could offer, > Adam Jacobs > mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com > > . > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.com/ >

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Re: F740 at home -- please help me!
by mikka makka 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Hello all, First, my utmost thanks to those of you -- you know who you are! -- who have been helping me out -- I will endeavor to "pay it forward" by doing my best for people looking for help in areas I have a little expertise in! With respect to the utility of running a filer at home, I do agree that it's overkill, if not totally senseless. I suppose one attraction *is*, as Chris Lamb suggested, that it is "cool as hell" -- well, "cool" perhaps is not the right word (I suspect I could heat my place with these things, if I could stand the noise -- as it is they are banished to the attic), but I'm sure you all understand :-) It's also, as benr pointed out, a way to learn -- while I'm not sure I'm ever going to need to administer netapps in real life (I'm a biologist), it never hurts to learn something new. Mainly, though, I really would like to have some reliable storage that's designed to be up 24x7. I'm so sick of cheap IDE drives dying on me :-( Now, I suppose I could do as Edwardv suggests and build a 900 gig RAID box for a thousand or so (although that's more than I have lying around, whereas the NetApp equipment was given to me for free). But what would be the fun in that? I hope that the drive failure rate, once I get it up and running, will not be too brutal. I will be taking Alan McLachlan's advice and leaving as many disks as possible as spares... Adam mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/

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Re: F740 at home -- please help me!
by Alan.McLachlan＠didata.com.au 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

"...you'd better have some deep pockets to play with thats all" Oh come ON Edward. NOBODY is going to actually pay NetApp's support and maintenance charges for a filer at home. It's very clear that home NetApp's are self-supported, for exactly the reason of NetApp's support charges. If you are in a round-about and unclear manner suggesting that NetApp should have a "second-tier" support model for non-commercial use, then your comments start to make more sense. But I doubt if NetApp would ever see that as viable or worthwhile. If you think NetApp's hardware maintenance and software support charges are expensive, have a look at HDS and EMC as well.... The fact is that vendors like EMC, HDS, NetApp etc. have very high internal costs associated with providing support, partly due to the (necessarily) proprietary nature of their solutions and the massive overhead involved in ongoing development in a fiercely competitive market. If you really understood the issues you would see that their support charges are anything but excessive - in fact NetApp are one of the better-behaved vendors in this regard. regards, Alan McLachlan ___________________________________ Solution Architect - Data Centre Solutions Dimension Data Australia Alan.McLachlan(a)didata.com.au Tel. +61 (0)2 61225123 Fax +61 (0)2 62486346 Mobile 0428 655644 ----- Forwarded by Alan McLachlan on 09/11/2004 09:24 AM ----- Edward Valencia <edjv(a)corp.earthlink.net> Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com 09/11/2004 05:20 AM To: Ben Rockwood <BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> cc: mikka makka <mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com>, toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! Oh dont get me wrong, playing with these machines is great, but to use them at home for more than just learning is a different story. I was just daying you'd better have some deep pockets to play with thats all. edwardv- Ben Rockwood wrote: > I will remind you Edward that many of the users who wish to use Filers > at home are trying to improve their skills. Obviously buying a couple > 200G IDE/SATA disks is a better solution, but give us fellas who like > to hack at home because it's all we've got a little credit. :) > > This only strikes a nerve with me because it's at the heart of the old > legal issues of off-support heads. > > benr. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Edward Valencia > Sent: Sun 11/7/2004 12:24 PM > To: mikka makka > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! > You must like to waste electricity this is a wrothless product to have > at home. Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and > you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines > combined. Also the rate that the disk failures occur on such old systems > you will need alot of spares, the cost isnt worth it. Sell it on ebay or > something and use the money to build the system described. > > To be able to download the software for your netapps, you will need to > register the heads and then see if they have the software entitlement > enabled. As I said these systems are worthless for home usage. Since > netapp makes thier money on supporting the harwdware, than the hardware > itself. The cost to enable parts replacements on 13 F760s for us was > 135k a year. Ten thousand a year for next day support and a nfs license. > Tells you alot. > > > Edwardv- > > mikka makka wrote: > > >>Hi all, >> >>Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB >>disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk >>began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of >>commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before >>total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the >>same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried >>swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a >>hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the >>drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but >>that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for >>some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be >>zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the >>Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into >>a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for >>the system, I gave up. >> >>Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also >>with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. >>Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the >>"Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without >>even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. >> >>I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of >>the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a >>"File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since >>the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can >>proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original >>file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and >>make a new one. >> >>The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare >>F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks >>(and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). >>That's 900GB of storage. >> >>I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the >>740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start >>afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and >>floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to >>proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command >>prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need >>to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... >> >>Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever >>grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- >>amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using >>only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four >>disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm >>truly stuck without documentation >> >>Thanks so much for any help you could offer, >>Adam Jacobs >>mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com >> >>. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! >>http://messenger.msn.com/ >> > > > > > ****************************************************************************** - NOTICE FROM DIMENSION DATA AUSTRALIA This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Internet communications are not secure. You should scan this message and any attachments for viruses. Under no circumstances do we accept liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of this message or any attachments. ******************************************************************************

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RE: F740 at home -- please help me!
by Hill, Aaron 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Have you considered the Data ONTAP simulator? It will do almost everything a filer can do (even clusters) and you get close to the latest version to play with (do that on your F720). Software licenses are free, it only takes up space on your hard drive and doesn't sound like a jumbo jet taking off. Of course it doesn't replace the fun of tinkering with hardware. I guess it all comes down to what your goals are. --Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Ben Rockwood [mailto:BRockwood@homestead-inc.com] Sent: Monday, 8 November 2004 8:28 PM To: Edward Valencia; mikka makka Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: F740 at home -- please help me! I will remind you Edward that many of the users who wish to use Filers at home are trying to improve their skills. Obviously buying a couple 200G IDE/SATA disks is a better solution, but give us fellas who like to hack at home because it's all we've got a little credit. :) This only strikes a nerve with me because it's at the heart of the old legal issues of off-support heads. benr. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Edward Valencia Sent: Sun 11/7/2004 12:24 PM To: mikka makka Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! You must like to waste electricity this is a wrothless product to have at home. Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines combined. Also the rate that the disk failures occur on such old systems you will need alot of spares, the cost isnt worth it. Sell it on ebay or something and use the money to build the system described. To be able to download the software for your netapps, you will need to register the heads and then see if they have the software entitlement enabled. As I said these systems are worthless for home usage. Since netapp makes thier money on supporting the harwdware, than the hardware itself. The cost to enable parts replacements on 13 F760s for us was 135k a year. Ten thousand a year for next day support and a nfs license. Tells you alot. Edwardv- mikka makka wrote: > Hi all, > > Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB > disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk > began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of > commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before > total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the > same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried > swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a > hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the > drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but > that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for > some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be > zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the > Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into > a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for > the system, I gave up. > > Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also > with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. > Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the > "Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without > even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. > > I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of > the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a > "File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since > the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can > proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original > file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and > make a new one. > > The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare > F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks > (and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). > That's 900GB of storage. > > I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the > 740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start > afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and > floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to > proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command > prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need > to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... > > Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever > grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- > amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using > only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four > disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm > truly stuck without documentation > > Thanks so much for any help you could offer, > Adam Jacobs > mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com > > . > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.com/ > ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ***************************************************************

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Re: F740 at home -- please help me!
by Alan.McLachlan＠didata.com.au 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Edward, You completely misunderstood my post. I was suggesting that your recommended solution (the PCI raid + new drives) was the "more appropriate low-cost alternative" My objection was to your statement that the PC +RAID was a "better" NFS+Samba server than a NetApp, which is clearly not the case. Read it again. regards, Alan McLachlan ___________________________________ Solution Architect - Data Centre Solutions Dimension Data Australia Alan.McLachlan(a)didata.com.au Tel. +61 (0)2 61225123 Fax +61 (0)2 62486346 Mobile 0428 655644 ----- Forwarded by Alan McLachlan on 09/11/2004 09:20 AM ----- Edward Valencia <edjv(a)corp.earthlink.net> 09/11/2004 05:31 AM To: Alan.McLachlan(a)didata.com.au cc: Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! Alan.McLachlan(a)didata.com.au wrote: > > Hi Edward, > > > "Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and > you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines > combined." > > You have to be kidding. Even an F720 will kill a current PC running > Windows or Linux as far as wide-sharing I/O is concerned, not to mention > data protection (NTFS, ext3 and Reiser are all traditional > update-in-place filesystems, nowhere near as robust as WAFL. It would be > better to say "...you have a more appropriate machine for low-cost home > use". > Wrong words used in part, but a netapp is not a low cost alternative to the average user as you stated. Im not trying to start a flame war here, just telling the guy that not to expect much from service and support if he is interested in keeping vital data on these machines when support is extremely expensive. Using these older machines to learn and to get more expirience is always a plus for anyone. > "... worthless for home usage" is also a little strong. Certainly a > NetApp is _overkill_ for most home use, but it's certainly not worthless. > > I do know one person who keeps an old F760 at home to support his six > machine Linux render farm (he's into video production at home). He's > tried what you suggested (new PC with hardware RAID) and it simply can't > keep up. This is the exception and its very rare that an average home user would use this type of equipment for anything more that keeping large amounts of video/audio. > > Technically most "home users" keeping old NetApp boxes are not actually > doing anything illegal, as the licences are bound to the machine's > serial number and are perpetual. Never said that there was anything illegal about having the equipment, other than the support/service is all tied to the serial number on the head. The only catch is that legally they are > restricted to the last version of OnTap that was available for download > before the software subscription for that machine expired. (No, I don't > want to spark that old debate again - just read your licence agreement > for your old filers. I believe this did change with the 9xx series). > > The only issue for them is having to do their own support - as you say, > you wouldn't pay NetApp's commercial support fees for home use...! > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > Adam, you will probably find that your 740 is completely unsupported by > NetApp, you might want to try to find a friendly reseller who has an old > version of OnTap appropriate for your machine with the boot floppies. To > be legal you would need to trace back to the previous owner, find out > when their software subscription expired and find the last version of > OnTap available before the expiry. Too hard really. My guess is that > NetApp would not bother to prosecute a home user for running a more > recent copy of OnTap. It's a little too grey legally and not worth their > effort. On the other hand, if you use it for any commercial purpose > that's a whole different scenario and you would want to make sure you > are licenced, even if you don't care about the support. > > Edward's comment about the drive failure rate is absolutely right - for > commercial use. For your home use you would expect the drives won't be > anywhere near as stressed and they will last much longer. You would be > wise however to take advantage of the on-the-fly expansion and leave as > many disks as possible as hot spares until you need them. That way you > will have a large pool of spares that will decrease only as you add them > to a volume or fail them out of the array. > > Good Luck! > > regards, > > Alan McLachla > ___________________________________ > Solution Architect - Data Centre Solutions > Dimension Data Australia > Alan.McLachlan(a)didata.com.au > Tel. +61 (0)2 61225123 > Fax +61 (0)2 62486346 > Mobile 0428 655644 > > ----- Forwarded by Alan McLachlan on 08/11/2004 10:17 AM ----- > *Edward Valencia <edjv(a)corp.earthlink.net>* > Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com > > 08/11/2004 07:24 AM > > > To: mikka makka <mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com> > cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! > > > > > You must like to waste electricity this is a wrothless product to have > at home. Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and > you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines > combined. Also the rate that the disk failures occur on such old systems > you will need alot of spares, the cost isnt worth it. Sell it on ebay or > something and use the money to build the system described. > > To be able to download the software for your netapps, you will need to > register the heads and then see if they have the software entitlement > enabled. As I said these systems are worthless for home usage. Since > netapp makes thier money on supporting the harwdware, than the hardware > itself. The cost to enable parts replacements on 13 F760s for us was > 135k a year. Ten thousand a year for next day support and a nfs license. > Tells you alot. > > > Edwardv- > > mikka makka wrote: > > > Hi all> > > Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB > > disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk > > began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of > > commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before > > total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the > > same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried > > swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a > > hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the > > drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but > > that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for > > some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be > > zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the > > Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into > > a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for > > the system, I gave up. > > > > Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also > > with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. > > Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the > > "Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without > > even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. > > > > I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of > > the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a > > "File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since > > the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can > > proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original > > file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and > > make a new one. > > > > The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare > > F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks > > (and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). > > That's 900GB of storage. > > > > I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the > > 740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start > > afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and > > floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to > > proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command > > prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need > > to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... > > > > Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever > > grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- > > amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using > > only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four > > disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm > > truly stuck without documentation > > > > Thanks so much for any help you could offer, > > Adam Jacobs > > mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com > > > > . > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > > http://messenger.msn.com/ > > > > > > > ****************************************************************************** > - NOTICE FROM DIMENSION DATA AUSTRALIA > This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally > privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please > notify the sender and delete it immediately. > > Internet communications are not secure. You should scan this message and > any attachments for viruses. Under no circumstances do we accept > liability for any loss or damage which may result from your receipt of > this message or any attachments. > ******************************************************************************

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RE: snaprestore reboots the filer?
by Debbie.Lane＠intermec.com 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

We have used snaprestore on non-root volumes, and the filer did not reboot. --Debbie -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borowicz Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:20 AM To: Netapp Subject: snaprestore reboots the filer? The following was lifted from the following doc url: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3130.html#5 <http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3130.html#5> . My "Data Protection Guide" says only if you snap restore the root volume will the filer will reboot which makes sense to me. The following is from Section 5.1 of the above referenced doc. I think this is an error in the doc. Can anybody confirm this for me? Thanks -Bob B. *************************excerpt from URL doc******************************** Next, from the filer's console or a telnet connection, issue the following command: vol snaprestore voldb -s new A reboot of the filer will occur. After the filer has rebooted, you can start the database back up again: "This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited."

2 1

Re: FW: VSCAN errors
by Florian Pfaff 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Hello Thorsten, is it possible that there is a local scanner running on the server? If there is a local virus scanner running on the server, it will scan and lock the files copied from the filer-scanner. So the file will be locked for the filer-scanengine. A possible solution may be to exclude the filer-scanengine and its temp directories from scanning. Greetings Florian Thorsten.Lemke(a)computacenter.com schrieb am 05.11.04 11:19:54: > > > > We have the same error messages but with Symantec software. Perhaps we are > able to solve that in a similar way. > > But we have also another more serious problem: > > Sun Oct 24 08:53:17 CEST [nvgm001@ngm001: vscan.virus.detected:error]: > CIFS: Virus Detected - File > ONTAP_ADMIN$\vol\vgm001\qgm00002\User_f\Q07xx\Heimarbeitsplatz\pers\Allgemein\Portfoliorunde > 2002\Muster für die Dateneingabe am PC.ppt in share Q07XX accessed by > client XXX (xxx.xxx.xxx.xx) running as user q07XX is infected. The filer > received status message Internal server error and error code [5] from vscan > (anti-virus) server xxx.xxx.xxx.xx. > > All the files that are logged in this way are corrupted and not accessible > any more. We dont know yet if they were corrupted before or if the scanner > software messes them up but the amount is growing and growing... > Has anyone ever encountered problems like this with Symantec Scan Engine or > other scanner software? > > > Regards > > Thorsten Lemke > > > > > > > SKIP HOFMANN <SKIP.HOFMANN(a)ttisg.com>@mathworks.com on 04.11.2004 20:12:10 > > Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com > > > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > cc: > Subject: FW: VSCAN errors > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Found the answer on Trends support site ID # 11930 and 10573. Looks like > its not a big deal > > > > > > > From:SKIP HOFMANN > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:37 AM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: VSCAN errors > > > > Hello all I keep getting these errors on my FAS250. Is this a Trend issue > or a filer problem? > > > > Thu Nov 4 10:28:00 PST [rpc_0:warning]: CIFS: Virus scanner 10.20.0.58 > completed scan on ONTAP_ADMIN$\vol\vol0\data\mfg\JOBS\110088\Impermeable > Barriers\CD\Reader\JavaScripts\aform.js but original request was not found. > > Thu Nov 4 10:28:06 PST [CIFSVScan:warning]: CIFS: Virus scan request to > 10.20.0.58 timed out. > > > > > > Skip Hofmann > > Senior Network Administrator > > TetraTech > > Skip.Hofmann(a)ttisg.com > > 949 500 5286 cell > > 949 608 5801 office > > > > > > > > > COMPUTACENTER (UK) LTD > > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. > It contains information which may be confidential and which may also be privileged. > Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive > for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone > else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then > destroy it. > > Computacenter information is available from http://www.computacenter.com > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. > > *************************************************************************************************************************** >

1 0

snaprestore reboots the filer?
by Robert Borowicz 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

The following was lifted from the following doc url: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3130.html#5. My "Data Protection Guide" says only if you snap restore the root volume will the filer will reboot which makes sense to me. The following is from Section 5.1 of the above referenced doc. I think this is an error in the doc. Can anybody confirm this for me? Thanks -Bob B. *************************excerpt from URL doc******************************** Next, from the filer's console or a telnet connection, issue the following command: vol snaprestore voldb -s new A reboot of the filer will occur. After the filer has rebooted, you can start the database back up again:

1 0

Backup device?
by Frank Bonnet 08 Nov '04

08 Nov '04

Hello I am searching to replace our HP dlt8000 ( 9 slots ) to a new backup device, the filer is a F87 with 250 Gb online. The goal is to perform nightly incremental backups of user's data. I need infos on the most appropriate device to do that job. Thanks a lot. -- Regards/Cordialement Frank Bonnet

3 2

Re: F740 at home -- please help me!
by Alan.McLachlan＠didata.com.au 07 Nov '04

07 Nov '04

Hi Edward, "Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines combined." You have to be kidding. Even an F720 will kill a current PC running Windows or Linux as far as wide-sharing I/O is concerned, not to mention data protection (NTFS, ext3 and Reiser are all traditional update-in-place filesystems, nowhere near as robust as WAFL. It would be better to say "...you have a more appropriate machine for low-cost home use". "... worthless for home usage" is also a little strong. Certainly a NetApp is _overkill_ for most home use, but it's certainly not worthless. I do know one person who keeps an old F760 at home to support his six machine Linux render farm (he's into video production at home). He's tried what you suggested (new PC with hardware RAID) and it simply can't keep up. Technically most "home users" keeping old NetApp boxes are not actually doing anything illegal, as the licences are bound to the machine's serial number and are perpetual. The only catch is that legally they are restricted to the last version of OnTap that was available for download before the software subscription for that machine expired. (No, I don't want to spark that old debate again - just read your licence agreement for your old filers. I believe this did change with the 9xx series). The only issue for them is having to do their own support - as you say, you wouldn't pay NetApp's commercial support fees for home use...! -------------------------------------------------- Adam, you will probably find that your 740 is completely unsupported by NetApp, you might want to try to find a friendly reseller who has an old version of OnTap appropriate for your machine with the boot floppies. To be legal you would need to trace back to the previous owner, find out when their software subscription expired and find the last version of OnTap available before the expiry. Too hard really. My guess is that NetApp would not bother to prosecute a home user for running a more recent copy of OnTap. It's a little too grey legally and not worth their effort. On the other hand, if you use it for any commercial purpose that's a whole different scenario and you would want to make sure you are licenced, even if you don't care about the support. Edward's comment about the drive failure rate is absolutely right - for commercial use. For your home use you would expect the drives won't be anywhere near as stressed and they will last much longer. You would be wise however to take advantage of the on-the-fly expansion and leave as many disks as possible as hot spares until you need them. That way you will have a large pool of spares that will decrease only as you add them to a volume or fail them out of the array. Good Luck! regards, Alan McLachla ___________________________________ Solution Architect - Data Centre Solutions Dimension Data Australia Alan.McLachlan(a)didata.com.au Tel. +61 (0)2 61225123 Fax +61 (0)2 62486346 Mobile 0428 655644 ----- Forwarded by Alan McLachlan on 08/11/2004 10:17 AM ----- Edward Valencia <edjv(a)corp.earthlink.net> Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com 08/11/2004 07:24 AM To: mikka makka <mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com> cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! You must like to waste electricity this is a wrothless product to have at home. Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines combined. Also the rate that the disk failures occur on such old systems you will need alot of spares, the cost isnt worth it. Sell it on ebay or something and use the money to build the system described. To be able to download the software for your netapps, you will need to register the heads and then see if they have the software entitlement enabled. As I said these systems are worthless for home usage. Since netapp makes thier money on supporting the harwdware, than the hardware itself. The cost to enable parts replacements on 13 F760s for us was 135k a year. Ten thousand a year for next day support and a nfs license. Tells you alot. Edwardv- mikka makka wrote: > Hi all> > Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB > disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk > began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of > commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before > total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the > same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried > swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a > hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the > drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but > that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for > some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be > zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the > Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into > a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for > the system, I gave up. > > Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also > with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. > Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the > "Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without > even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. > > I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of > the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a > "File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since > the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can > proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original > file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and > make a new one. > > The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare > F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks > (and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). > That's 900GB of storage. > > I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the > 740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start > afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and > floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to > proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command > prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need > to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... > > Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever > grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- > amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using > only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four > disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm > truly stuck without documentation > > Thanks so much for any help you could offer, > Adam Jacobs > mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com > > . > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.com/ > ****************************************************************************** - NOTICE FROM DIMENSION DATA AUSTRALIA This message is confidential, and may contain proprietary or legally privileged information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it immediately. Internet communications are not secure. You should scan this message and any attachments for viruses. 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F740 at home -- please help me!
by mikka makka 07 Nov '04

07 Nov '04

Hi all, Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for the system, I gave up. Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the "Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a "File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and make a new one. The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks (and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). That's 900GB of storage. I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the 740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm truly stuck without documentation Thanks so much for any help you could offer, Adam Jacobs mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com . _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/

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FW: VSCAN errors
by SKIP HOFMANN 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

Found the answer on Trends support site ID # 11930 and 10573. Looks like its not a big deal _____ From: SKIP HOFMANN Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:37 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: VSCAN errors Hello all I keep getting these errors on my FAS250. Is this a Trend issue or a filer problem? Thu Nov 4 10:28:00 PST [rpc_0:warning]: CIFS: Virus scanner 10.20.0.58 completed scan on ONTAP_ADMIN$\vol\vol0\data\mfg\JOBS\110088\Impermeable Barriers\CD\Reader\JavaScripts\aform.js but original request was not found. Thu Nov 4 10:28:06 PST [CIFSVScan:warning]: CIFS: Virus scan request to 10.20.0.58 timed out. Skip Hofmann Senior Network Administrator TetraTech Skip.Hofmann(a)ttisg.com <mailto:Skip.Hofmann@ttisg.com> 949 500 5286 cell 949 608 5801 office

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re: Routing question
by ferdberfl＠netzero.net 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

filers don't have any capability to route data between interfaces. There's nothing you need to do to make sure they filer isn't doing any routing. AFIK it is a common use of filers in mixed high security/non secure environments to share common data through filer interfaces connected to both networks. Note, you will need routing entries to provide paths to networks behind the 2nd interface to the private network. The filer can only point to one gateway for (a 0.0.0.0 entry in the routing table). All other paths off of connected networks have to be pathed via static route table entries. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Phelps [mailto:mphelps@cfa.harvard.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:30 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Routing question Hi all, I want to add a second nework interface (actually a vif, but it shouldn't make any difference) and attach it to a private network on a beowulf cluster; but I want to also keep the current interface to our public network up. How do I make sure the filer isn't doing any routing? Currently, the vif setup for our public network looks like this (IP addresses removed to protect the innocent): hostname foo vif create multi vif0 e9a e9b ifconfig vif0 `hostname`-vif0 netmask 255.255.248.0 route add default xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx routed on So do I just add a foo-cluster (and foo-cluster-vif1) entry to the hosts file with the appropriate private IP address (e.g. 10.1.200.1) and then do: vif create multi vif1 e11a e11b ifconfig vif1 foo-cluster-vif1 netmask 255.0.0.0 Do I need another "route add" for 10.1.1.1 (the gateway to the private network?). I don't understand this stuff. -- Matt Phelps System Administrator, Computation Facility Harvard - Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics mphelps(a)cfa.harvard.edu, http://cfa-www.harvard.edu

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