toasters

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13517 discussions

RE: Exchange growth after migration.
by Derek Lai 15 Nov '04

15 Nov '04

Paul, Thanks for the detailed explanation. Just out of curiosity, I was wondering about option 3 (using VSS on Win2003) and why it would work. Is this another instance of Microsoft using some undocumented API call? Derek -----Original Message----- From: Benn, Paul [mailto:paul.benn@netapp.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:12 PM To: Sto RageC ; Paul Galjan Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Exchange growth after migration. Hi Sto Rage (sorry, don't know your real name), You are correct in that SME is "Exchange aware." This option is not available in Exchange 5.5, which might explain why you do not see it on your server. If this is what I think it is, it is likely to be what Paul Galjan writes of below. If so, this is a known issue and is documented in NetApp online bug 53144 and also on page 92 of the SnapManager for Exchange version 3.1 Installation and Administration Guide. Here is a direct link to the article for those of you who want to read about it and have access to NOW. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=53144 Basically, Exchange 2000 and Exchange Server 2003 have an option of "Do not permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has been backed up." The option itself should be self explanatory. The issue is that in order for this feature to function, the entire database needs to be read during the backup process. This happens when you spool to tape or to a .BKF file, for example. SnapManager uses snapshot technology to perform the backup process so it does not read the entire database as part of the backup. This is simply a limitation of Exchange 2000 that is exposed when using snapshot technology to perform backups and is *not* limited to Network Appliance filers or to SnapManager for Exchange itself. This Exchange option is *disabled* by default, which could also explain why you did not run into the unexplained growth. There are three ways to get around this issue: 1) Disable the Exchange 2000 option of "Do not permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has been backed up." 2) Run a copy-type backup in addition to the SnapManager backups using an Exchange aware backup application, such as NTBackup. This is what Paul Galjan suggested below. This can be done, say, once per week and could be spooled to a .BKF file versus a tape device. Some SnapManager customers create backup archives by creating a copy type backup anyway. Doing so would not only provide a backup archive but would also provide a work around to the above mentioned issue. 3) Move to Exchange Server 2003 on Windows Server 2003 to get the VSS technology. When running this combination of Exchange and Windows, VSS is used to create the snapshots. The issue does *not* apply to SME backups performed via VSS. I realize that this may not be an option for everyone but I am just calling it out as another way to solve the problem. I hope this sheds some light on the issue. Please let us know if further clarification is needed. Regards, Paul Benn SnapManager Engineering Network Appliance > -----Original Message----- > From: Sto Rage(c) [mailto:netbacker@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:06 PM > To: Paul Galjan > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Exchange growth after migration. > > Are you sure of this? I thought when you schedule SnapManager for > Exchange (SME) backups to create the snapshots, Exchange is aware of > the full backup being done and it will truncate the transaction logs > and also delete the items deleted as specified in the Limits tab. When > you look at the database tab, it should show the time of the last full > backup which would correspond to the last snapshot taken via SME. > Am I wrong? We too recently migrated our exchange env to a netapp > platform and haven't noticed any major database bloat (yet?). We do > have the option "Donot delete .... until the store has been backed up" > checked. Well, maybe our users don't delete any mails ;) > > Darren, the question you should ask your Exch admin is ... are they > using SME for scheduling the backups or someother means. Ask them to > look at the database tab and see if it has a time recored for full > backups. The time for incrementals would be none, since SME doesn't do > an incremental backup. > Hope this helps. > > -G > > > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:40:46 -0500, Paul Galjan > <galjan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > > > Tech support is correct if you have some the checkbox > "Uncheck "Do not > > permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has > been backed > > up" > > > > The problems lies in the difference between the way > NTbackup and other > > Exchange-aware backup programs and snapshot backup programs like SME > > work. When other backup programs do a backup, all blocks are read > > from the DB, and Exchange knows that items can be deleted "for real" > > after the blocks have been read. When SME (or any other > > snapshot-based program, for that matter), does a backup, the blocks > > are read by eseutil, but only after the backup is done, and > it's done > > on the snapshot (not the active DB), so Exchange doesn't > know to clean > > up deleted items. > > > > This is an issue with any snapshot-based Exchange backup program. > > Right now, Microsoft doesn't have any special hooks into its backup > > API to allow this cleanup to be invoked after a snapshot. (I don't > > know if/when that's coming). The workaround right now is to either > > turn that option off in Exchange, or run occasional copy-only backup > > jobs with ntbackup or somesuch. > > > > More information on how to turn this option off is here: > > http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/MF022.html > > > > --paul > > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:55:28 -0800 (PST), Darren Dunham > > > > > > <ddunham(a)taos.com> wrote: > > > Danger, I'm not a windows person, so I'm a little over my > head on part > > > of this. > > > > > > I've got a client that has just completed a migration of their > > > Exchange 2000 servers onto a netapp iscsi lun with > snapmanager. So > > > far everything seems to be working great on the netapp side. > > > > > > However, after running on the server for two weeks, their > private store > > > has jumped from about 120G to about 220G. Some of their > support is > > > suggesting that the standard Exchange backup process has > some cleanup > > > functions that run during the backup. Now that it doesn't run any > > > longer with snapmanager in place, the cleanup is no > longer performed and > > > the DB grows out of control (unless you shut down and do > a defrag). > > > > > > Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm looking for confirmation, > > > refutation, or hey, even solutions on this. I'm hoping there are > > > similar environments out there. Specifically, a larger > database (such > > > that the nightly cleanup process can't tackle the entire store > > > overnight). > > > > > > Please don't ask me for anything that requires debugging. > I'm not the > > > windows guy. I'm just trying to find out if this growth > has occurred at > > > other sites. It's been escalated with both Netapp and > Microsoft, but no > > > word yet on if this is expected behavior. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > -- > > > Darren Dunham > ddunham(a)taos.com > > > Senior Technical Consultant TAOS > http://www.taos.com/ > > > Got some Dr Pepper? San > Francisco, CA bay area > > > < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. > > > > > > >

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Problems with old 740 cluster...
by Kelsey Cummings 15 Nov '04

15 Nov '04

I consult for this company that has an old 740 cluster that is built out with FC8 shelves and primarily ST118202FC and ST318203FC disks with the ocassional X221 18GB gisks. One of the filers has 2 shelves, the other 8. The one with 8 shelves is having repeated problems with 'missing disks' - ie where a perfectly good disk just disapears from the loop. I think the missing disk problem may be localized to specific bays on specific shelves but in any event doesn't seem to follow the disk if it's moved. It also seems to affect spare disks more than active disks (I've kept as many spares hot as possible in the boxes due to the age of the disks) but this could just be an artifact of the behavior. It's a little before my time with NetApps but I seem to recal hearing that these kinds of problems were not uncommon on the FC8/FC9 shelves. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can rectify the problems besides replacing the disks and shelves? -Kelsey

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RE: Lost a disk in our out of service filer, Looking for options.
by Greg Libert 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

You can try www.zerowait.com too........................ "refurbished" (Used) -----Original Message----- From: Alan Sparks [mailto:asparks@quris.com] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 12:21 PM To: John Kiniston Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Lost a disk in our out of service filer, Looking for options. May not be the real answer you want, but Berkeley Communications has these drives (Seagate Barracuda 9.1GB?) for $175. Done much biz with them, a good company. http://store.yahoo.com/berkcomm/st39173wc.html -Alan On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 10:40, John Kiniston wrote: > Howdy folks. > > Today we had a disk go broken in our old filer , It's running 5.3.4R2 > with two shelves. > > I've run out of functional ST39173WC disks from Netapp and I'd like to > continue to use my filer. > > Is it possible to shrink the volume on my filer by a disk and have the > free'd up disk be my spare? > > Right now I've got a 74.65 GB vol0 with only 44.57GB in use so thats > about 30GB of free space on the volume, Vol0 is also my only volume > right now. > > > Does anyone on the list have a ST39173WC they would be willing to sell > to me with our without the enclosure? (I have two broken ST39173WC's > so I could re-use my enclosure.) > > The only other thing I can think of is maybe there is a chance I've > got one ST39173WC with a bad board and the other with a bad disk but > swapping controllers without knowing what's bad wouldnt be my first > choice. > > Thank's for the help.

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Lost a disk in our out of service filer, Looking for options.
by John Kiniston 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

Howdy folks. Today we had a disk go broken in our old filer , It's running 5.3.4R2 with two shelves. I've run out of functional ST39173WC disks from Netapp and I'd like to continue to use my filer. Is it possible to shrink the volume on my filer by a disk and have the free'd up disk be my spare? Right now I've got a 74.65 GB vol0 with only 44.57GB in use so thats about 30GB of free space on the volume, Vol0 is also my only volume right now. Does anyone on the list have a ST39173WC they would be willing to sell to me with our without the enclosure? (I have two broken ST39173WC's so I could re-use my enclosure.) The only other thing I can think of is maybe there is a chance I've got one ST39173WC with a bad board and the other with a bad disk but swapping controllers without knowing what's bad wouldnt be my first choice. Thank's for the help.

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RE: vfiler dr configure trouble
by Hill, Aaron 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

Forgive me if I am asking the obvious; Can you see anything odd in the /etc/log/snapmirror logs? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron Sent: Friday, 12 November 2004 9:27 AM To: 'Conzen, Christoph (C.)'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: vfiler dr configure trouble Cristoph, What does your current snapmirror status, snapmirror destinations and snap list output give? Just looking for evidence of the previous snapmirror relationships. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Conzen, Christoph (C.) [mailto:cconzen1@getrag-ford.com] Sent: Friday, 12 November 2004 1:58 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: vfiler dr configure trouble Hi Toasters, we have setup a vfiler on an FAS270 which holds 13 qtrees plus its etc-qtree. On a Nearstore we use vfiler dr for the original vfiler as fallback solution. We have tested the disaster case (cut off network connection to the filer and submitted vfiler dr activate on the nearstore) which worked fine, and also tested the reverse operation which worked fine. Next action was to clean up the nearstore - destroy the dr-vfiler remainders, snapmirror relationships and snapshots from both systems. After this I was going to create the vfiler dr on the nearstore again, which did not work. Submitting the vfiler dr configure VFILERX@Physicalfiler command produced the following: nearstore> vfiler dr configure VFILERx@physicalfilerY physicalfiler's Administartive login: root physicalfiler's Administartive password: Configuring SnapMirror to mirror vfiler VFILERx's storage from remote filer physicalfilerY. Mon Nov 8 08:46:04 CET [snapmirror.dst.err:error]: SnapMirror destination transfer from physicalfilerY:/vol/vol1/qtree6 to /vol/vol1/qtree6 : too many active transfers at once on source. Unable to initialize SnapMirror for migrating VFILERx. Has anyone out there made similar expieriences or has got a clue what causes this behaviour? Christoph Conzen GETRAG FORD Transmissions ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ***************************************************************

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AW: vfiler dr configure trouble
by Conzen, Christoph (C.) 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

This does explain why the 9th snapmirror which is started exceeds the limit. I double/triple checked that nothing else was going on at the time of the vfiler dr configure. The command did succeed once, but it seems no longer to put the limit-exceeding transfers to pending and crashes instead. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Federwisch, Mike [mailto:Mike.Federwisch@netapp.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 12. November 2004 15:26 An: Thorsten.Lemke(a)computacenter.com; Conzen, Christoph (C.) Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: RE: vfiler dr configure trouble The documentation is wrong for that model. Only 8 transfers are supported for a FAS270. -----Original Message----- From: Thorsten.Lemke(a)computacenter.com [mailto:Thorsten.Lemke@computacenter.com] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:01 AM To: cconzen1(a)getrag-ford.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: vfiler dr configure trouble Perhaps that was only a temporary issue. The FAS270 only supports up to 16 simultaneous snapmirror transfers. If there are already 16 active transfers (which means that status is 'transferring' instead of 'idle') at the moment when you try to initialize the vfiler dr, then you will get the message 'too many active transfers at once on source'. Just check snapmirror status that your amount of simultaneous transfers is not filled up at the moment and try again. Regards Thorsten Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> cc: Subject: vfiler dr configure trouble |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| Hi Toasters, we have setup a vfiler on an FAS270 which holds 13 qtrees plus its etc-qtree. On a Nearstore we use vfiler dr for the original vfiler as fallback solution. We have tested the disaster case (cut off network connection to the filer and submitted vfiler dr activate on the nearstore) which worked fine, and also tested the reverse operation which worked fine. Next action was to clean up the nearstore - destroy the dr-vfiler remainders, snapmirror relationships and snapshots from both systems. After this I was going to create the vfiler dr on the nearstore again, which did not work. Submitting the vfiler dr configure VFILERX@Physicalfiler command produced the following: nearstore> vfiler dr configure VFILERx@physicalfilerY physicalfiler's Administartive login: root physicalfiler's Administartive password: Configuring SnapMirror to mirror vfiler VFILERx's storage from remote filer physicalfilerY. Mon Nov 8 08:46:04 CET [snapmirror.dst.err:error]: SnapMirror destination transfer from physicalfilerY:/vol/vol1/qtree6 to /vol/vol1/qtree6 : too many active transfers at once on source. Unable to initialize SnapMirror for migrating VFILERx. Has anyone out there made similar expieriences or has got a clue what causes this behaviour? Christoph Conzen GETRAG FORD Transmissions COMPUTACENTER (UK) LTD The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information which may be confidential and which may also be privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. Computacenter information is available from http://www.computacenter.com This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ***************************************************************************************************************************

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Re: Using unsipported FC switches
by Parisse, Dave 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

Andrew, I am proud to say - we are listening!! While you did have the link to the brocade page in your email - you did not have the link to the high level page for our tapesan solutions. That can be found here: http://www.netapp.com/osn/info/config.html I'm not sure which library you wanted to connect - but if you click on the Adic lib under brocade (as an example) - you will get here: http://www.netapp.com/osn/info/fc/adic-main-brocade.html And this page shows all of the ADIC libs that are supported in a tapesan. Assuming further you were interested in the Scalar 10k from ADIC - you can scroll down - and see not only supported fw config info - but a docs link - which will get you to the jointly created (ADIC and Netapp) solution doc http://www.netapp.com/osn/info/fc/docs/adic/ADIC_TapeSAN_A.pdf and also links at ADIC to help describe/help with configuring. For the oem'd san switch - our stance is if you are dealing with an oem switch which is not changed by that oem vendor (firmware or hardware) then you are really using the switch vendors switch - and we support as documented. We only ask that if you make this determination you also check any service contracts with the oem to ensure they would not be violated - to our surprise some oems have somewhat restrictive clauses. Of course - If the oem changes the switch in any functional way (firmware or hardware) then we need them to certify their changes are valid. I do hope this helps and would ask that if you (or Graeme) are still having concerns - please let me know. Dave parisse(a)netapp.com Manager, Certification and Operations Technical Marketing Network Appliance, Inc.

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RE: vfiler dr configure trouble
by Federwisch, Mike 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

The documentation is wrong for that model. Only 8 transfers are supported for a FAS270. -----Original Message----- From: Thorsten.Lemke(a)computacenter.com [mailto:Thorsten.Lemke@computacenter.com] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:01 AM To: cconzen1(a)getrag-ford.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: vfiler dr configure trouble Perhaps that was only a temporary issue. The FAS270 only supports up to 16 simultaneous snapmirror transfers. If there are already 16 active transfers (which means that status is 'transferring' instead of 'idle') at the moment when you try to initialize the vfiler dr, then you will get the message 'too many active transfers at once on source'. Just check snapmirror status that your amount of simultaneous transfers is not filled up at the moment and try again. Regards Thorsten Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> cc: Subject: vfiler dr configure trouble |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| Hi Toasters, we have setup a vfiler on an FAS270 which holds 13 qtrees plus its etc-qtree. On a Nearstore we use vfiler dr for the original vfiler as fallback solution. We have tested the disaster case (cut off network connection to the filer and submitted vfiler dr activate on the nearstore) which worked fine, and also tested the reverse operation which worked fine. Next action was to clean up the nearstore - destroy the dr-vfiler remainders, snapmirror relationships and snapshots from both systems. After this I was going to create the vfiler dr on the nearstore again, which did not work. Submitting the vfiler dr configure VFILERX@Physicalfiler command produced the following: nearstore> vfiler dr configure VFILERx@physicalfilerY physicalfiler's Administartive login: root physicalfiler's Administartive password: Configuring SnapMirror to mirror vfiler VFILERx's storage from remote filer physicalfilerY. Mon Nov 8 08:46:04 CET [snapmirror.dst.err:error]: SnapMirror destination transfer from physicalfilerY:/vol/vol1/qtree6 to /vol/vol1/qtree6 : too many active transfers at once on source. Unable to initialize SnapMirror for migrating VFILERx. Has anyone out there made similar expieriences or has got a clue what causes this behaviour? Christoph Conzen GETRAG FORD Transmissions COMPUTACENTER (UK) LTD The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information which may be confidential and which may also be privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. Computacenter information is available from http://www.computacenter.com This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ***************************************************************************************************************************

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vfiler dr configure trouble
by Conzen, Christoph (C.) 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

Hi Toasters, we have setup a vfiler on an FAS270 which holds 13 qtrees plus its etc-qtree. On a Nearstore we use vfiler dr for the original vfiler as fallback solution. We have tested the disaster case (cut off network connection to the filer and submitted vfiler dr activate on the nearstore) which worked fine, and also tested the reverse operation which worked fine. Next action was to clean up the nearstore - destroy the dr-vfiler remainders, snapmirror relationships and snapshots from both systems. After this I was going to create the vfiler dr on the nearstore again, which did not work. Submitting the vfiler dr configure VFILERX@Physicalfiler command produced the following: nearstore> vfiler dr configure VFILERx@physicalfilerY physicalfiler's Administartive login: root physicalfiler's Administartive password: Configuring SnapMirror to mirror vfiler VFILERx's storage from remote filer physicalfilerY. Mon Nov 8 08:46:04 CET [snapmirror.dst.err:error]: SnapMirror destination transfer from physicalfilerY:/vol/vol1/qtree6 to /vol/vol1/qtree6 : too many active transfers at once on source. Unable to initialize SnapMirror for migrating VFILERx. Has anyone out there made similar expieriences or has got a clue what causes this behaviour? Christoph Conzen GETRAG FORD Transmissions

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AW: vfiler dr configure trouble
by Conzen, Christoph (C.) 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

There are no oddities as far as I can see. All is matching - Starts and Ends etc. I have set up the mirrors, the vfiler dr config would trigger, by hand and the same error message (too many active transfers...)comes up then when all mirors are initialized/updated the same time. But different to the vfiler dr configure situation, the ones beyond any concurrent-transfer-limits are just set to pending and will succeed as soon as the number of concurrent transfers goes below the threshold. For the FAS270 the documentation says that 16 concurrent transfers are the max. The error messages comes when the 9th transfer is started! It looks as if any transfer is counted twice , and if the vfiler dr configure process cannot push the transfers to pending but terminates the whole process when the first error occurs. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Hill, Aaron [mailto:aaron.hill@cba.com.au] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. November 2004 23:54 An: Conzen, Christoph (C.); toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: RE: vfiler dr configure trouble Forgive me if I am asking the obvious; Can you see anything odd in the /etc/log/snapmirror logs? -----Original Message----- From: Hill, Aaron Sent: Friday, 12 November 2004 9:27 AM To: 'Conzen, Christoph (C.)'; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: vfiler dr configure trouble Cristoph, What does your current snapmirror status, snapmirror destinations and snap list output give? Just looking for evidence of the previous snapmirror relationships. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Conzen, Christoph (C.) [mailto:cconzen1@getrag-ford.com] Sent: Friday, 12 November 2004 1:58 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: vfiler dr configure trouble Hi Toasters, we have setup a vfiler on an FAS270 which holds 13 qtrees plus its etc-qtree. On a Nearstore we use vfiler dr for the original vfiler as fallback solution. We have tested the disaster case (cut off network connection to the filer and submitted vfiler dr activate on the nearstore) which worked fine, and also tested the reverse operation which worked fine. Next action was to clean up the nearstore - destroy the dr-vfiler remainders, snapmirror relationships and snapshots from both systems. After this I was going to create the vfiler dr on the nearstore again, which did not work. Submitting the vfiler dr configure VFILERX@Physicalfiler command produced the following: nearstore> vfiler dr configure VFILERx@physicalfilerY physicalfiler's Administartive login: root physicalfiler's Administartive password: Configuring SnapMirror to mirror vfiler VFILERx's storage from remote filer physicalfilerY. Mon Nov 8 08:46:04 CET [snapmirror.dst.err:error]: SnapMirror destination transfer from physicalfilerY:/vol/vol1/qtree6 to /vol/vol1/qtree6 : too many active transfers at once on source. Unable to initialize SnapMirror for migrating VFILERx. Has anyone out there made similar expieriences or has got a clue what causes this behaviour? Christoph Conzen GETRAG FORD Transmissions ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ***************************************************************

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RE: vfiler dr configure trouble
by Hill, Aaron 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Cristoph, What does your current snapmirror status, snapmirror destinations and snap list output give? Just looking for evidence of the previous snapmirror relationships. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Conzen, Christoph (C.) [mailto:cconzen1@getrag-ford.com] Sent: Friday, 12 November 2004 1:58 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: vfiler dr configure trouble Hi Toasters, we have setup a vfiler on an FAS270 which holds 13 qtrees plus its etc-qtree. On a Nearstore we use vfiler dr for the original vfiler as fallback solution. We have tested the disaster case (cut off network connection to the filer and submitted vfiler dr activate on the nearstore) which worked fine, and also tested the reverse operation which worked fine. Next action was to clean up the nearstore - destroy the dr-vfiler remainders, snapmirror relationships and snapshots from both systems. After this I was going to create the vfiler dr on the nearstore again, which did not work. Submitting the vfiler dr configure VFILERX@Physicalfiler command produced the following: nearstore> vfiler dr configure VFILERx@physicalfilerY physicalfiler's Administartive login: root physicalfiler's Administartive password: Configuring SnapMirror to mirror vfiler VFILERx's storage from remote filer physicalfilerY. Mon Nov 8 08:46:04 CET [snapmirror.dst.err:error]: SnapMirror destination transfer from physicalfilerY:/vol/vol1/qtree6 to /vol/vol1/qtree6 : too many active transfers at once on source. Unable to initialize SnapMirror for migrating VFILERx. Has anyone out there made similar expieriences or has got a clue what causes this behaviour? Christoph Conzen GETRAG FORD Transmissions ************** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ************** This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (ABN 48 123 123 124) or its subsidiaries. We can be contacted through our web site: commbank.com.au. If you no longer wish to receive commercial electronic messages from us, please reply to this e-mail by typing Unsubscribe in the subject line. ***************************************************************

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AW: LTO-2 drives issues
by Rene Koehnen-Wiesemes 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

I think that your emulation does't work well, Netapp use this data as tape configuration file for IBM Ultrium-2 (IBM_LTO2_ULTRIUM.TCF): # Configuration file for tape drive IBM LTO Gen2 AKA ULTRIUM-TD2 # Rev. 1.0 vendor_id="IBM" product_id="ULTRIUM-TD2" id_match_size=11 vendor_pretty="IBM" product_pretty="ULTRIUM-TD2" l_description="LTO-I tape only 100GB" l_density=0x40 l_algorithm=0x00 m_description="LTO-I tape 200GB cmp" m_density=0x40 m_algorithm=0x01 h_description="LTO-II tape only 200GB" h_density=0x42 h_algorithm=0x00 a_description="LTO-II tape 400GB cmp" a_density=0x42 a_algorithm=0x01 autoload="yes" CDB 0x15 is SCSI-Mode Select Command, h_density=0x42 and h_algorithm are correct values for the original IBM tape, apparently not for your drive - you got an Illegal Request Error. Try to find out what your drive expect there - it should be described in the "scsci programmers guide" for your drive. Good luck, Rene -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Carlos A. Alvarez [mailto:carlosa@ddmsa.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. November 2004 20:57 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: LTO-2 drives issues Hi All, I installed a Library StorageTek L80 with one drive LTO2 Certance Ultrium 2 connected via SCSI LVD to Filer F840 with Ontap 6.4.3. This release does not support LTO 2 so I dynamically qualified a IBM Ultrium-TD2. Then I emulated Certance Ultrium 2 as IBM Ultrium-TD2 with success. But a error appears when I try to use LTO2 format (rst4a/h), wich is displayed but not recognized. Does someone suffer a similar issue? Thanks bafiler01> mt -f rst4a status Tue Nov 9 20:15:13 ART [scsi.cmd.checkCondition:error]: Device 2a.1: Check Cond ition: CDB 0x15: Sense Data SCSI:illegal request - (0x5 - 0x26 0x0 0x0)(2). Tape drive: CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 Status: ready, write enabled Format: LTO-I tape only 100GB fileno = 0 blockno = 0 resid = 0 bafiler01> sysconfig -t Tape drive (2a.1) CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 emulates ULTRIUM-TD2 rst4l - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB nrst4l - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB urst4l - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB rst4m - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp nrst4m - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp urst4m - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp rst4h - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB nrst4h - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB urst4h - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB rst4a - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp nrst4a - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp urst4a - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp

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Exchange growth after migration.
by Darren Dunham 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Danger, I'm not a windows person, so I'm a little over my head on part of this. I've got a client that has just completed a migration of their Exchange 2000 servers onto a netapp iscsi lun with snapmanager. So far everything seems to be working great on the netapp side. However, after running on the server for two weeks, their private store has jumped from about 120G to about 220G. Some of their support is suggesting that the standard Exchange backup process has some cleanup functions that run during the backup. Now that it doesn't run any longer with snapmanager in place, the cleanup is no longer performed and the DB grows out of control (unless you shut down and do a defrag). Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm looking for confirmation, refutation, or hey, even solutions on this. I'm hoping there are similar environments out there. Specifically, a larger database (such that the nightly cleanup process can't tackle the entire store overnight). Please don't ask me for anything that requires debugging. I'm not the windows guy. I'm just trying to find out if this growth has occurred at other sites. It's been escalated with both Netapp and Microsoft, but no word yet on if this is expected behavior. Thanks! -- Darren Dunham ddunham(a)taos.com Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/ Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. >

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RE: Exchange growth after migration.
by Benn, Paul 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Hi Sto Rage (sorry, don't know your real name), You are correct in that SME is "Exchange aware." This option is not available in Exchange 5.5, which might explain why you do not see it on your server. If this is what I think it is, it is likely to be what Paul Galjan writes of below. If so, this is a known issue and is documented in NetApp online bug 53144 and also on page 92 of the SnapManager for Exchange version 3.1 Installation and Administration Guide. Here is a direct link to the article for those of you who want to read about it and have access to NOW. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/cgi-bin/bol?Type=Detail&Display=53144 Basically, Exchange 2000 and Exchange Server 2003 have an option of "Do not permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has been backed up." The option itself should be self explanatory. The issue is that in order for this feature to function, the entire database needs to be read during the backup process. This happens when you spool to tape or to a .BKF file, for example. SnapManager uses snapshot technology to perform the backup process so it does not read the entire database as part of the backup. This is simply a limitation of Exchange 2000 that is exposed when using snapshot technology to perform backups and is *not* limited to Network Appliance filers or to SnapManager for Exchange itself. This Exchange option is *disabled* by default, which could also explain why you did not run into the unexplained growth. There are three ways to get around this issue: 1) Disable the Exchange 2000 option of "Do not permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has been backed up." 2) Run a copy-type backup in addition to the SnapManager backups using an Exchange aware backup application, such as NTBackup. This is what Paul Galjan suggested below. This can be done, say, once per week and could be spooled to a .BKF file versus a tape device. Some SnapManager customers create backup archives by creating a copy type backup anyway. Doing so would not only provide a backup archive but would also provide a work around to the above mentioned issue. 3) Move to Exchange Server 2003 on Windows Server 2003 to get the VSS technology. When running this combination of Exchange and Windows, VSS is used to create the snapshots. The issue does *not* apply to SME backups performed via VSS. I realize that this may not be an option for everyone but I am just calling it out as another way to solve the problem. I hope this sheds some light on the issue. Please let us know if further clarification is needed. Regards, Paul Benn SnapManager Engineering Network Appliance > -----Original Message----- > From: Sto Rage(c) [mailto:netbacker@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:06 PM > To: Paul Galjan > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Exchange growth after migration. > > Are you sure of this? I thought when you schedule SnapManager for > Exchange (SME) backups to create the snapshots, Exchange is aware of > the full backup being done and it will truncate the transaction logs > and also delete the items deleted as specified in the Limits tab. When > you look at the database tab, it should show the time of the last full > backup which would correspond to the last snapshot taken via SME. > Am I wrong? We too recently migrated our exchange env to a netapp > platform and haven't noticed any major database bloat (yet?). We do > have the option "Donot delete .... until the store has been backed up" > checked. Well, maybe our users don't delete any mails ;) > > Darren, the question you should ask your Exch admin is ... are they > using SME for scheduling the backups or someother means. Ask them to > look at the database tab and see if it has a time recored for full > backups. The time for incrementals would be none, since SME doesn't do > an incremental backup. > Hope this helps. > > -G > > > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:40:46 -0500, Paul Galjan > <galjan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Darren, > > > > Tech support is correct if you have some the checkbox > "Uncheck "Do not > > permanently delete mailboxes and items until the store has > been backed > > up" > > > > The problems lies in the difference between the way > NTbackup and other > > Exchange-aware backup programs and snapshot backup programs like SME > > work. When other backup programs do a backup, all blocks are read > > from the DB, and Exchange knows that items can be deleted "for real" > > after the blocks have been read. When SME (or any other > > snapshot-based program, for that matter), does a backup, the blocks > > are read by eseutil, but only after the backup is done, and > it's done > > on the snapshot (not the active DB), so Exchange doesn't > know to clean > > up deleted items. > > > > This is an issue with any snapshot-based Exchange backup program. > > Right now, Microsoft doesn't have any special hooks into its backup > > API to allow this cleanup to be invoked after a snapshot. (I don't > > know if/when that's coming). The workaround right now is to either > > turn that option off in Exchange, or run occasional copy-only backup > > jobs with ntbackup or somesuch. > > > > More information on how to turn this option off is here: > > http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/MF022.html > > > > --paul > > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:55:28 -0800 (PST), Darren Dunham > > > > > > <ddunham(a)taos.com> wrote: > > > Danger, I'm not a windows person, so I'm a little over my > head on part > > > of this. > > > > > > I've got a client that has just completed a migration of their > > > Exchange 2000 servers onto a netapp iscsi lun with > snapmanager. So > > > far everything seems to be working great on the netapp side. > > > > > > However, after running on the server for two weeks, their > private store > > > has jumped from about 120G to about 220G. Some of their > support is > > > suggesting that the standard Exchange backup process has > some cleanup > > > functions that run during the backup. Now that it doesn't run any > > > longer with snapmanager in place, the cleanup is no > longer performed and > > > the DB grows out of control (unless you shut down and do > a defrag). > > > > > > Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm looking for confirmation, > > > refutation, or hey, even solutions on this. I'm hoping there are > > > similar environments out there. Specifically, a larger > database (such > > > that the nightly cleanup process can't tackle the entire store > > > overnight). > > > > > > Please don't ask me for anything that requires debugging. > I'm not the > > > windows guy. I'm just trying to find out if this growth > has occurred at > > > other sites. It's been escalated with both Netapp and > Microsoft, but no > > > word yet on if this is expected behavior. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > -- > > > Darren Dunham > ddunham(a)taos.com > > > Senior Technical Consultant TAOS > http://www.taos.com/ > > > Got some Dr Pepper? San > Francisco, CA bay area > > > < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. > > > > > > >

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wafl scan measure_layout
by SKIP HOFMANN 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Hello all I have an exchange 5.5 database on a FAS 250 filer. When I run the waffle scan on the vol that holds the exchange DB it comes back pretty good. The database is around 50 gigs. My question is can I use the wafl scan measure layout command to effectively determine when my DB needs to be defragged? Skip Skip Hofmann Senior Network Administrator TetraTech Skip.Hofmann(a)ttisg.com <mailto:Skip.Hofmann@ttisg.com> 949 500 5286 cell 949 608 5801 office

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Re: spares disks no more equivalent from one filer to another one
by Davin Milun 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

At 14:33, on Oct 26, 2004, Stephane wrote: > Derek Lai wrote: > > >I will not work either with just a simple spares_zero command (which > >only zeros a spare). The problems is DataOntap will refuse to put the drives > >into the system. You have to completely rewrite the label on the drive. To > >do so requires that you reboot and drop into the maintenance menu and then > >pick the option to re-label the drive. > > > yes, type ^C at boot, but instead of choosing "maintenance mode" choice > 5, choose "zeroing all disk" choice 4 > this my workaround : this erase all label on all disk (and all data so > beware) > zeroing doesn't have to terminate, run it only for 5 or 15 minutes Does anyone know if the "label" command from "priv set diag" can be used (running from a pre-6.5 filer)? Is anyone willing to share the syntax for that command, as I don't have a non-production filer to play on. Basically, I have 3 disks that were inadvertently inserting into a box running 6.5 - and I'd like to reclaim them for use under 6.4, but without having to have a head down in maint mode to do so. Thanks. Davin. -- Davin Milun Email: milun-at-cse.Buffalo.EDU milun-at-acm.org

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LTO-2 drives issues
by Carlos A. Alvarez 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Hi All, I installed a Library StorageTek L80 with one drive LTO2 Certance Ultrium 2 connected via SCSI LVD to Filer F840 with Ontap 6.4.3. This release does not support LTO 2 so I dynamically qualified a IBM Ultrium-TD2. Then I emulated Certance Ultrium 2 as IBM Ultrium-TD2 with success. But a error appears when I try to use LTO2 format (rst4a/h), wich is displayed but not recognized. Does someone suffer a similar issue? Thanks bafiler01> mt -f rst4a status Tue Nov 9 20:15:13 ART [scsi.cmd.checkCondition:error]: Device 2a.1: Check Cond ition: CDB 0x15: Sense Data SCSI:illegal request - (0x5 - 0x26 0x0 0x0)(2). Tape drive: CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 Status: ready, write enabled Format: LTO-I tape only 100GB fileno = 0 blockno = 0 resid = 0 bafiler01> sysconfig -t Tape drive (2a.1) CERTANCEULTRIUM 2 emulates ULTRIUM-TD2 rst4l - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB nrst4l - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB urst4l - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape only 100GB rst4m - rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp nrst4m - no rewind device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp urst4m - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-I tape 200GB cmp rst4h - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB nrst4h - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB urst4h - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape only 200GB rst4a - rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp nrst4a - no rewind device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp urst4a - unload/reload device, format is: LTO-II tape 400GB cmp

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RE: Simulator error
by aaron hirsch 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Gentoo Linux with the 2.6.9 kernel on one box,i386, and 2.6.7 kernel on a Opeteron box. -----Original Message----- From: Kleinbrahm, Bob [mailto:rkleinbrahm@firstrepublic.com] Sent: Wed 11/10/2004 1:16 PM To: aaron hirsch; toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: Subject: RE: Simulator error What versin of Linux are you running? I had a similar error when I was running RH 7.2 and upgraded to Fedora to get rid of the error. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of aaron hirsch Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Simulator error All, I'm attempting to get the DOT simulator running for demo purposes and am getting the following error when I run runsim.sh: maytag.L[5706]: segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000008aa1d47 rsp 0000000055a3e398 error 6 Anyone have any ideas of where to start to troubleshoot this problem? TIA! Aaron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

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RE: Simulator error
by Kleinbrahm, Bob 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

What versin of Linux are you running? I had a similar error when I was running RH 7.2 and upgraded to Fedora to get rid of the error. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of aaron hirsch Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:02 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Simulator error All, I'm attempting to get the DOT simulator running for demo purposes and am getting the following error when I run runsim.sh: maytag.L[5706]: segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000008aa1d47 rsp 0000000055a3e398 error 6 Anyone have any ideas of where to start to troubleshoot this problem? TIA! Aaron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

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Simulator error
by aaron hirsch 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

All, I'm attempting to get the DOT simulator running for demo purposes and am getting the following error when I run runsim.sh: maytag.L[5706]: segfault at 0000000000000000 rip 0000000008aa1d47 rsp 0000000055a3e398 error 6 Anyone have any ideas of where to start to troubleshoot this problem? TIA! Aaron

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Using unsipported FC switches
by graeme_taylor＠agilent.com 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Hi, We're currently looking at replacing our F820 with a FAS270. We'd like to take advantage of the library(ADIC Scalar 10K) we already have attached to our backup SAN. Unfortunately the SAN is based around EMC Connectrix switches(ED-64M). Not something NetApp seem to support. No surprise there really :) Just wondering if anyone is successfully using a FC backup solution that makes use of non-supported FC switches, and if so what the vendor is. Graeme.

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RE: Using unsipported FC switches
by Garavito, Donald, CTR, OSD-ATL 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

FYI, Per Veritas HCL for Veritas Storage Solution (another EMC subsidary): McData ED6064 Switch = EMC ED64M = HP StorageWorks SAN Directory 2/64 = HP SureStore FC 64 So, the NetApp-McData compatibility listing will apply. Hope this helps out. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:03 AM Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Using unsipported FC switches try to talk about this issue to your sale represent. Netapp is continuouslly integrating compatibility w/ different SAN product. Your case may reflect a general and/or help netapp in his work. graeme_taylor(a)agilent.com wrote: >Hi, > >We're currently looking at replacing our F820 with a FAS270. We'd like >to take advantage of the library(ADIC Scalar 10K) we already have >attached to our backup SAN. Unfortunately the SAN is based around EMC >Connectrix switches(ED-64M). Not something NetApp seem to support. No >surprise there really :) > >Just wondering if anyone is successfully using a FC backup solution >that makes use of non-supported FC switches, and if so what the vendor >is. > >Graeme. > > >

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DR ANTONIO SYLVESTER
by dr_as4＠handbag.com 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

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RE: F740 at home -- please help me!
by Ben Rockwood 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

I will remind you Edward that many of the users who wish to use Filers at home are trying to improve their skills. Obviously buying a couple 200G IDE/SATA disks is a better solution, but give us fellas who like to hack at home because it's all we've got a little credit. :) This only strikes a nerve with me because it's at the heart of the old legal issues of off-support heads. benr. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Edward Valencia Sent: Sun 11/7/2004 12:24 PM To: mikka makka Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: F740 at home -- please help me! You must like to waste electricity this is a wrothless product to have at home. Get 7 200gb drives a pci raid controller and a decent pc and you have a better nfs/samba server than both those two machines combined. Also the rate that the disk failures occur on such old systems you will need alot of spares, the cost isnt worth it. Sell it on ebay or something and use the money to build the system described. To be able to download the software for your netapps, you will need to register the heads and then see if they have the software entitlement enabled. As I said these systems are worthless for home usage. Since netapp makes thier money on supporting the harwdware, than the hardware itself. The cost to enable parts replacements on 13 F760s for us was 135k a year. Ten thousand a year for next day support and a nfs license. Tells you alot. Edwardv- mikka makka wrote: > Hi all, > > Last year I inherited an F740 filer with two FC9 shelves (7x36 GB > disks). I used it happily at home for a few months and then a disk > began to fail -- one had already failed, so that put the unit out of > commission although luckily I was able to get all my data off it before > total lossage. I bought a couple of Seagate ST136403FC drives -- the > same model number as in the drive carriers -- off ebay and tried > swapping them in, but no luck; the system wouldn't recognize them. On a > hunch that it might have to do with firmware I tried swapping the > drive's controller boards (old drives' controllers with new drives), but > that didn't work either; the system wouldn't come up, dumping core for > some reason. I figured the drives themselves probably needed to be > zeroed/initialized/labeled in some way that made them acceptable to the > Netapp, but I couldn't figure out any way to get the Netapp up and into > a mode that would let me do that. Finally, lacking documentation for > the system, I gave up. > > Fast-forward a little, I just inherited a second filer, an F720, also > with two FC9 (7x36) shelves. As far as I know all disks good. > Unfortunately it won't boot up (it finds and loads the image, gives the > "Initializing PCI devices" and then suddenly reboots itself, without > even dumping core). I'm not sure what the problem could be. > > I tried plugging in some of the disks from the new shelves in place of > the bad disks in the old one, and now the 740 starts up and gives me a > "File system may be scrambled" message -- well, of course it is, since > the replaced disks contain who-knows-what, but I don't see how I can > proceed from there. I'm not worried about getting back the original > file system as I backed it up -- I just want to clear everything out and > make a new one. > > The situation seems to me to be this: I've got an F740 (and a spare > F720), and four shelves with a grand total of 26 good, identical, disks > (and maybe even 28, if I could get the drive controller swap to work). > That's 900GB of storage. > > I'm sure I should be able somehow to hook the four shelves up to the > 740, reinitialize the whole system and all the drives somehow, and start > afresh with a working 900GB filesystem. But I don't have the docs and > floppy or whatever that came with the filers and I have no idea how to > proceed given that the filer won't even start up to give me a command > prompt that I might be able to work with. I'm not sure if I would need > to boot from a floppy (I don't have one) or what... > > Is there anyone out there who could help, in any way? I'd be forever > grateful... For the few months I had the 740 running, it was heaven -- > amazing having a file server like this at home, even though I was using > only the smallest fraction of its capabilities. Now that I have four > disk shelves, I'm really motivated to get it working again, but I'm > truly stuck without documentation > > Thanks so much for any help you could offer, > Adam Jacobs > mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com > > . > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.com/ >

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Re: F740 at home -- please help me!
by mikka makka 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Hello all, First, my utmost thanks to those of you -- you know who you are! -- who have been helping me out -- I will endeavor to "pay it forward" by doing my best for people looking for help in areas I have a little expertise in! With respect to the utility of running a filer at home, I do agree that it's overkill, if not totally senseless. I suppose one attraction *is*, as Chris Lamb suggested, that it is "cool as hell" -- well, "cool" perhaps is not the right word (I suspect I could heat my place with these things, if I could stand the noise -- as it is they are banished to the attic), but I'm sure you all understand :-) It's also, as benr pointed out, a way to learn -- while I'm not sure I'm ever going to need to administer netapps in real life (I'm a biologist), it never hurts to learn something new. Mainly, though, I really would like to have some reliable storage that's designed to be up 24x7. I'm so sick of cheap IDE drives dying on me :-( Now, I suppose I could do as Edwardv suggests and build a 900 gig RAID box for a thousand or so (although that's more than I have lying around, whereas the NetApp equipment was given to me for free). But what would be the fun in that? I hope that the drive failure rate, once I get it up and running, will not be too brutal. I will be taking Alan McLachlan's advice and leaving as many disks as possible as spares... Adam mikkamakka(a)hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/

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