toasters

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

13531 discussions

Oracle OS-Error (OS 64)
by Holland, William L 14 Jan '05

14 Jan '05

We have an Oracle database running on a Win2K Adv server in an NT4 domain, with the database files on a FAS940. The database is in a dedicated QTree on a dedicated volume. The server and filer are directly connected via a crossover GbE connection. Occasionally, the database will go down with a series of Oracle events listed below. Nothing abnormal shows up in the Windows Event logs or the filer's messages. na_gb (gigabit connection to the NetApp) is entered in the local HOST file and LHMOSTS file. The LMHOSTS file uses the #PRE statement to preload this and keep it in the NetBIOS cache. Any ideas what can be causing this? ------------------------------------------------ ORA-00206: error in writing (block 3, # blocks 1) of controlfile ORA-00202: controlfile: '\\NA_GB\RFMT$\CONTROL2\RFMTCONTROL02.CTL' ORA-27072: skgfdisp: I/O error OSD-04008: WriteFile() failure, unable to write to file O/S-Error: (OS 64) The specified network name is no longer available.

1 0

"desktop search" product for NetApp Filer?
by Chris Shenton 13 Jan '05

13 Jan '05

Google, Yahoo and others are offering tools to allow users to search the contents of their desktop. Apple will offer this with OSX Tiger and Microsoft when Longhorn ever comes out. Seems something users really want and need. It would be nice to offer similar facilities to users whose desktop contents reside on a NetApp Filer. While I expect the existing tools could be crawl users files from their desktop even if they're on NFS or CIFS shares, I expect they would be *very* inefficient. There are already products for the Filer which can scan user files for virii. I'm guessing these don't run continuously, but rather when a file is added or it changes on the NetApp. It seems a search engine could do likewise, indexing or re-indexing the file when it was put on the Filer or changed, respectively. Then they could find their stuff quickly and easily. A sophisticated search product could add value by clustering results into semantically related groups (e.g., a search on "space" might provide results grouped by concepts like "room", "geometry", "astronomy", "freedom"). Other advanced user interfaces could be imagined, including "fly-throughs" of related concepts and documents. Do such products exist? I didn't find anything that looked relevant with a quick google. Many thanks.

1 0

Replacing NVRAM online
by cisco joe 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

Has anyone did replacement of NVRAM 4 card on clustered environment using cf takeover/giveback? Is it possible to replace NVRAM in cf takeover mode? DOT version is 6.4 on both Filers (FAS960c) Please suggest..Thanks in advance Regards, Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

2 1

Ship Confirmation, Tracking Number : ZCR740328048485YTMX
by James 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn. Alvin Toffler Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example. The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. -Groucho Marx (1890-1977) Do you practice driving in London? Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910) lets goto mcdonalds soon. we can get a hamburger or too. Haven't you disliked reading? i need to get a pedicure. my feet smell and itch Did those bus drivers regret singing? When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other. -Eric Hoffer (1902-1983) Don't go around saying the world owes you a living; the world owes you nothing; it was here first. Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining? George Wallace About the necessity of compromise

1 0

Surpesfat dielrvey
by Abdul Joyner 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

Canuck Prhamayc *****on premediation requisite***** * Lowest Prices * Valor, Xray, Vitality, Supa, Amor, Philosophy, moo!! * Fearful Desire *****on premeditation requisite*****

1 0

netgroup problem ?
by Frank Bonnet 10 Jan '05

10 Jan '05

I have s strange problem with the netgroup file ( I think ... ) I'm running 6.5.2R1 on a F87 box and I have a problem adding a machine in the /etc/netgroup file of the filer. The file is local to the filer. When I add a machine called "alfa" into the netgroup file the partition is not exported for this machine. I've tried to move the alfa machine to several places in the netgroup file but it does not help at all, nothing written in syslog nor to the console ... anyone could help ? -- Cordialement/Regards Frank Bonnet

3 2

Data Ontap 7
by Joel.Cooper＠lvvwd.com 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

Is anyone using version 7 of DOT? Thoughts? Opinions?

1 0

RE: vol copy
by Michael Christian 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Not if you have 2.3M files... -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Linux Admin Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:13 AM To: devnull(a)adc.idt.com Cc: McCarthy, Tim; NetApp Toasters List Subject: Re: vol copy qtree snapmirro is very usefull for that On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 10:31:49 -0500 (EST), devnull(a)adc.idt.com <devnull(a)adc.idt.com> wrote: > What would be really cool is if you would let us copy/move qtrees between > volumes. I find myself having to do that more often that i copy entire > volumes. > > Right now, i end up doing it over the network which kinda seems > unnecessary. > > Thanks > On Thu, 6 Jan 2005, Jerry wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:14:10 -0800 (PST) > > From: Jerry <juanino(a)yahoo.com> > > To: "McCarthy, Tim" <timothy.mccarthy(a)netapp.com>, > > Paul Galjan <galjan(a)gmail.com>, Ben Rockwood <brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> > > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > > Subject: vol copy > > > > Whoa. That's really cool. > > > > --- "McCarthy, Tim" <timothy.mccarthy(a)netapp.com> > > wrote: > > > >> How "wide" are your directories? They play a very > >> important role in the > >> backup process. The more files in any given > >> directory, the longer it > >> takes to parse. > >> > >> How about this: VOLCOPY > >> > >> This only works at a volume level, it is all or none > >> and no incrementals > >> available...without a snapmirror license. > >> > >> You could do this: > >> > >> Source=vol1 Dest=dvol > >> > >>> From the Dest: > >> vol restrict dvol > >> > >> from the source: > >> vol copy -S start vol1 dest:dvol (-->that is a cap > >> -S) > >> > >> this will copy the source volume, including all > >> snapshots to the > >> destination volume. (if you do not want the > >> snapshots, drop the -S) > >> > >> The catch: You must copy the whole volume and you > >> must use a whole > >> volume on the destination to copy to. Any > >> information on the destination > >> volume will be eradicated. > >> > >> This will work in 6.x and 7.x although in 7.x you > >> can only copy between > >> like volumes. Flex to Flex and Traditional to > >> Traditional. > >> > >> --tmac > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:32 PM > >> To: Ben Rockwood > >> Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > >> Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning > >> > >> Hey, you've always got cygwin ;-). > >> > >> Seriously, though. 2.3M files is a serious number > >> of files. I used > >> to have a 180G home directory partition for about > >> 300 users with only > >> about half that number of inodes. Even with rsync, > >> it took about 4 > >> hours to move that guy over to the destination, even > >> when less tha n > >> 500 MB had changed. > >> > >> It underscores the point that block level > >> replication will have better > >> performance than file level replication, whether you > >> end up using QSM > >> or ndmpcopy. It really is worth it to bang on your > >> rep to get > >> snapmirror for an amount that you can afford. I > >> almost guarantee it > >> would save you orders of magnitude in replication > >> time. > >> > >> --paul > >> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:19:48 -0800, Ben Rockwood > >> <brockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > >>> Paul Galjan wrote: > >>> > >>>> Cool then. > >>>> > >>>> In that case I would look at rsync and/or > >> robocopy (in a windows only > >>>> env). Not that rsync is a block level protocol > >> (it evaluates on the > >>>> file level), but perhaps it would provide better > >> performance with > >>>> smaller backup windows? > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Rsync is certainly a possiblity. I'm afraid I'd > >> have some problems > >>> being as in this enviroment the filers are being > >> used CIFS only, which > >>> makes file level interaction for an old UNIX > >> zealot like me less than > >>> entertaining. > >>> > >>>> To put a better point on it: NDMP is just a > >> wrapper around the UNIX > >>>> dump command. It's no better, nor worse than it, > >> and that's the > >>>> reason I asked. The dump command (and NDMP by > >> extension) is for > >>>> backup, not DR. It is a clunky protocol in terms > >> of straight > >>>> replication, and that's why Netapp and others > >> offer alternatives for > >>>> replication... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> In the end though, we should get to your problem: > >> how many inodes are > >>>> we looking at? And what happens in Pass 4, Stage > >> 1? The inode number > >>>> would be my first suspect. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Right. I haven't looked at the code itself to see > >> exactly what it's > >>> doing (I probly should at some point) but Stage 1 > >> of Pass IV seems to > >> be > >>> all about inode creation prior to copying in all > >> the data. The source > >>> volume has 2.3million inodes in use. That does't > >> seem like an > >>> outragious number, and this is a pretty small > >> filer all things > >>> considered. How creation of 2.3 million inodes > >> can consume 3 hours is > >>> beyond my understanding. During that time the > >> destination filers CPU > >> is > >>> nearly idle. The only explanation I can dream up > >> is that the proccess > >>> of creating inodes is happening so quickly that > >> the bulk of system > >> time > >>> is spent in context switches not in execution, and > >> hense a false sense > >>> of idle-ness... but thats a pretty BS explanation > >> since even if that > >>> were the case it still wouldn't take 3 hours. > >>> > >>> All the evidence I've seen thus far with NDMP > >> suggests that I just > >> need > >>> to turn up the flow. Is there an idle loop in the > >> dump code? Thats > >>> exactly what it feels like. Anyone know is there > >> is an OnTap > >> equivelent > >>> to truss? > >>> > >>> benr. > >>> > >>>> --paul > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:12:25 -0800, Ben Rockwood > >>>> <BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hey Paul. > >>>>> > >>>>> Because I never said I was building a "quick > >> disaster recovery" > >> solution. :) > >>>>> The recovery system I'm building is more of a > >> "at least we've got > >> another copy" solution. We don't have cash for a > >> nearline which leaves > >> us in a hole. I'm looking to temporarily fill that > >> hole by leveraging > >> old 840's to at least keep a copy of the data on > >> untill we can one day > >> cough up the cash for a proper nearline. I'm > >> wanting to use NDMP > >> perhaps predominantly because this is what it was > >> intended to do. > >> SnapMirror and SnapVault are undoubtably the better > >> solutions, but I'd > >> like to try and utilize NDMP rather than just give > >> up on it as a slow > >> useless system of backup/recovery. If NDMP would > >> just run at the speeds > >> that the filers are capable of I'd be doing ok. I'm > >> leaving > >> Snapmirror/Snapvault off the table for now. > >>>>> > >>>>> benr. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] > >>>>> Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:52 PM > >>>>> To: Ben Rockwood > >>>>> Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > >>>>> Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning > >>>>> Hi Ben, > >>>>> > >>>>> I'll be the first to say that this doesn't > >> answer your question, but > >> > > === message truncated === > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > /dev/null > > devnull(a)adc.idt.com > >

1 0

RE: X272 Disk Details
by Derek Lai 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

The JURE is Hitachi and SCHT is Seagate Cheetah. Derek -----Original Message----- From: Ben Rockwood [mailto:BRockwood@homestead-inc.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:45 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: X272 Disk Details I'm trying to work up some performance figures on the 72G disks I use in my DS14/mk2 shelfs. Sadly however sysconfig -v doesn't report the disk maker or model. I'm assuming their Seagate Cheetah's but not sure. NOW's part finder isn't giving me details either. Anyone know what the following disks actually are?: X272_HJURE073F10 NA07 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA02 X272_HJURE073F10 NA09 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA04 Thanx. benr.

1 0

RE: NDMP Tuning
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Hey Paul. Because I never said I was building a "quick disaster recovery" solution. :) The recovery system I'm building is more of a "at least we've got another copy" solution. We don't have cash for a nearline which leaves us in a hole. I'm looking to temporarily fill that hole by leveraging old 840's to at least keep a copy of the data on untill we can one day cough up the cash for a proper nearline. I'm wanting to use NDMP perhaps predominantly because this is what it was intended to do. SnapMirror and SnapVault are undoubtably the better solutions, but I'd like to try and utilize NDMP rather than just give up on it as a slow useless system of backup/recovery. If NDMP would just run at the speeds that the filers are capable of I'd be doing ok. I'm leaving Snapmirror/Snapvault off the table for now. benr. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Galjan [mailto:galjan@gmail.com] Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:52 PM To: Ben Rockwood Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: NDMP Tuning Hi Ben, I'll be the first to say that this doesn't answer your question, but why are you using NDMP for quick disaster recovery? I would think that SnapMirror or SnapVault would be much more accomodating to DR requirements... My guess would be that a block level copy with VSM would be much more efficient... I would ask your Sales rep or SE for an eval snapmirror license. --paul On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:26:32 -0800, Ben Rockwood <BRockwood(a)homestead-inc.com> wrote: > Happy New Year Toasters. > > Does anyone have experience with tuning NDMP? I'm not sure how much tuning is possible, but I'm trying to work out some serious slowness in NDMP Level 0's. > > Plenty of people have had these issues before but I'm not finding solutions on NOW or in forums. Here is a time breakdown of a L0 I did: > 5 hr 32 min total > 35 minutes in Pass I & II > 14 minutes in Pass III > 3 hr 38 min Pass IV (Stage 1, Creation) > 1 hr 21 min Pass IV (Stage 2, Copy) > Unknown in Pass V > > These numbers are rough based on timestamps during the NDMPcopy itself. The total transfer is about 58G from one 760 to another. It's the first stage of PassIV that really bothers me. During this first part of the pass there is very low CPU utilization and little IO. I need to speed up the process. Since the destination is a recovery filer and not serving data I don't care if it's CPU gets slammed or IO is pushed through the roof, I just need it done quicker. > > Is it throttling or can I some how speed it up? I'm using gig as the interconnect but as I understand it Pass IV Stage 1 is all about inode creation whereas Stage2 is the actual data transfer. The data transfer rate is roughly averaging 11MB/s between the two filers which is less than I'd like to see as well, the filer should be capable of handling a tranfer rate of 30MB/s pretty easily. > > Any hints or tips from the experienced? This is effectively a test setup before implementing a recovery system on our production 940's in which we'll be moving nearly 7TB of data. Given my findings so far it's going to be pretty nasty. > > benr. >

3 3

REsolved: X272 Disk Details
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Thanx for all the responces. Skottie had a broken disk on his desk and was good enough to send me the model number. The rest of the responces were pertaining to the format of the NetApp model number which is: H = Hitachi, JUR = Jura, E = rev E. S = Seagate, CHT = Cheetah, 6 = rev 6. The numbers that follow the manufacturer/type are indicative of the RAW size, F = FCAL, and 10 = 10K RPM The model number that Skottie gave me didn't come up in the Seagate library so I'm using a comperable disk (ST373307FC) for specs. I namely need to establish the internal transfer rates and seek times. Thanx all. benr. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on behalf of Ben Rockwood Sent: Wed 1/5/2005 4:44 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Cc: Subject: X272 Disk Details I'm trying to work up some performance figures on the 72G disks I use in my DS14/mk2 shelfs. Sadly however sysconfig -v doesn't report the disk maker or model. I'm assuming their Seagate Cheetah's but not sure. NOW's part finder isn't giving me details either. Anyone know what the following disks actually are?: X272_HJURE073F10 NA07 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA02 X272_HJURE073F10 NA09 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA04 Thanx. benr.

1 0

NDMP Tuning
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Happy New Year Toasters. Does anyone have experience with tuning NDMP? I'm not sure how much tuning is possible, but I'm trying to work out some serious slowness in NDMP Level 0's. Plenty of people have had these issues before but I'm not finding solutions on NOW or in forums. Here is a time breakdown of a L0 I did: 5 hr 32 min total 35 minutes in Pass I & II 14 minutes in Pass III 3 hr 38 min Pass IV (Stage 1, Creation) 1 hr 21 min Pass IV (Stage 2, Copy) Unknown in Pass V These numbers are rough based on timestamps during the NDMPcopy itself. The total transfer is about 58G from one 760 to another. It's the first stage of PassIV that really bothers me. During this first part of the pass there is very low CPU utilization and little IO. I need to speed up the process. Since the destination is a recovery filer and not serving data I don't care if it's CPU gets slammed or IO is pushed through the roof, I just need it done quicker. Is it throttling or can I some how speed it up? I'm using gig as the interconnect but as I understand it Pass IV Stage 1 is all about inode creation whereas Stage2 is the actual data transfer. The data transfer rate is roughly averaging 11MB/s between the two filers which is less than I'd like to see as well, the filer should be capable of handling a tranfer rate of 30MB/s pretty easily. Any hints or tips from the experienced? This is effectively a test setup before implementing a recovery system on our production 940's in which we'll be moving nearly 7TB of data. Given my findings so far it's going to be pretty nasty. benr.

2 1

X272 Disk Details
by Ben Rockwood 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

I'm trying to work up some performance figures on the 72G disks I use in my DS14/mk2 shelfs. Sadly however sysconfig -v doesn't report the disk maker or model. I'm assuming their Seagate Cheetah's but not sure. NOW's part finder isn't giving me details either. Anyone know what the following disks actually are?: X272_HJURE073F10 NA07 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA02 X272_HJURE073F10 NA09 X272_SCHT6073F10 NA04 Thanx. benr.

1 0

netcache: any way to prevent client from doing a refresh on cached items
by Kerry Herschel 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Hi, I'm getting a lot of objects flushed from the cache with a tcp_miss_reload message. Apparently the client browser is doing a refresh. Does anyone know how to prevent a client browser from doing a refresh on the netcache box? Thanks, Kerry ================================================================ Margaret.K.Herschel(a)jpl.nasa.gov JPL Information Services Jet Propulsion Laboratory Phone 818.354.1111 DISCLAIMER: The personal and professional opinions presented herein are my own and do not, in any way, represent the opinion or policy of JPL.

1 0

Netcache 5.5R5 Active Directory Computer Groups
by Michael Schipp 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Hi all, Has anybody had any success in setting up the Netcache to use ACL's based on Active Directory Computer groups? We have a client that has requested this, but so far I have been only able to set ACL's on User groups from AD. We have setup domain membership (to a Windows 2000 domain) and are using NTLM and Kerberos authentication. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Michael.

1 0

RE: DFM 3.1 Management Station Requirements
by Holland, William L 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

Windows. NFS is not enabled on any NetApp Equipment, only CIFS, SnapMirror, SnapVault and currently no LUNs. -----Original Message----- From: Brubaker, Paul [mailto:Paul.Brubaker@cingular.com] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:41 PM To: Holland, William L; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: DFM 3.1 Management Station Requirements What O/S is your DFM management system running on? Windows or UNIX flavor? I am also interested in feedback on realistic requirements for DFM as well. Our current DFM2.3 is problematic... Especially in managing CIFS user quotas. Netapps resolution is to upgrade to DFM3.0.1. Paul M. Brubaker, Jr. RIDS - Intel System Support Cingular Wireless e-mail: paul.brubaker(a)cingular.com office #: 717-526-5011 cell #: 717-578-2254 -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Holland, William L Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: DFM 3.1 Management Station Requirements The documentation specifies the minimum hardware and software requirements. However, what is more realistic for hardware in terms of CPU speed, RAM, and disk space for managing an F825 (3TB Raw), FAS940 (12TB Raw), FAS960 (12 TB Raw), and R200 (48TB Raw). I want to monitor SnapMirror, user quotas, and Performance of all 4 units.

1 0

RE: DFM 3.1 Management Station Requirements
by Brubaker, Paul 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

What O/S is your DFM management system running on? Windows or UNIX flavor? I am also interested in feedback on realistic requirements for DFM as well. Our current DFM2.3 is problematic... Especially in managing CIFS user quotas. Netapps resolution is to upgrade to DFM3.0.1. Paul M. Brubaker, Jr. RIDS - Intel System Support Cingular Wireless e-mail: paul.brubaker(a)cingular.com office #: 717-526-5011 cell #: 717-578-2254 -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Holland, William L Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: DFM 3.1 Management Station Requirements The documentation specifies the minimum hardware and software requirements. However, what is more realistic for hardware in terms of CPU speed, RAM, and disk space for managing an F825 (3TB Raw), FAS940 (12TB Raw), FAS960 (12 TB Raw), and R200 (48TB Raw). I want to monitor SnapMirror, user quotas, and Performance of all 4 units.

1 0

DFM 3.1 Management Station Requirements
by Holland, William L 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

The documentation specifies the minimum hardware and software requirements. However, what is more realistic for hardware in terms of CPU speed, RAM, and disk space for managing an F825 (3TB Raw), FAS940 (12TB Raw), FAS960 (12 TB Raw), and R200 (48TB Raw). I want to monitor SnapMirror, user quotas, and Performance of all 4 units.

1 0

RE: EMC vs NetApp
by SKIP HOFMANN 31 Dec '04

31 Dec '04

Simply put NO! There is something nice about ease of use -----Original Message----- From: Kelsey Cummings [mailto:kgc@sonic.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:34 PM To: Dirk Schmiedt Cc: SKIP HOFMANN; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: EMC vs NetApp On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 12:07:24AM +0100, Dirk Schmiedt wrote: > SKIP HOFMANN wrote: > >the FASTEST NAS is BLUEARC > ??? I'm using NAS for stabilty, reliabilty, easy of use and, performance in that order. Does anyone beat NetApp on these issues? If I had different performance requirements I might have different opinions. -K

2 1

RE: EMC vs NetApp
by Bokkelkamp Ernst 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

Hallo Dirk, Good job, I didn't know that you dig into the NAS equipment that deep (even without the use of a screwdriver). However, I am missing one important point in the discussion: Performance is nice, but what about the services offered by the equipment. Even I, and you know my preferences, do advise to look at EMC as a potential platform for certain solutions if the most important factor happens to be the price and not the services offered by the operating system. If you need plain NFS without the need to do snapshots for ie databases, a-/synchronous replication, diskbased backup, iscsi, tape backup, SAN, CIFS, flexible volumes, highly reliable filesystem, security, support, etc. then you can just aswell look at any supplier based on performance figures. But if you need a particular service to be able to do the job effeciently and/or economically then you must weigh the performance against the needs, and then any of the named suppliers could just have the right solution (at least on paper) available. What our favorite company offers is a proven trackrecord that other companies would like to reach...... Btw. If you need low-cost plain NAS and don't worry to much about performance and security: http://www.serverelements.com/naslite.php ;-) Bye Ernie -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Schmiedt Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:07 AM To: SKIP HOFMANN Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: EMC vs NetApp SKIP HOFMANN wrote: > the FASTEST NAS is BLUEARC ??? Hello Skip Do you have real new comparative test results or are you just citing the press releases from Bluearc? ;-) http://www.bluearc.com/html/news/press_releases/pr_specsfs_110104.shtml Neither NetApp nor BlueArc are the fastest NAS providers ... They are both "slow" compared to ... Exanet, IBM, Panasas, Spinnaker, ... Let's have a look at the NFS-Benchmarks BlueArc cites ( http://www.spec.org/sfs97r1/results/sfs97r1.html ) I will focus on the TCP results: Company System Proto Result Overall Response Time BlueArc Inc. Titan 32 TCP 101571 1.78 Exanet Inc. ExaStore EX600FC TCP 178156 1.04 IBM Corporation IBM eServer p5 570 TCP 145362 1.17 Panasas, Inc. Panasas ActiveScale TCP 305805 1.76 (!!!) Spinnaker Networks SpinServer 4100 TCP 134385 1.90 But ... first let's stay at a small BlueArc <-> NetApp comparison as this is the toasters list. :-) BlueArc Titan 32 50858 1.76 Many io/s with bad response time. NetApp FAS980 36063 0.95 Less io/s with fast response time. The Fas980 has three quarters (72 %) of io/s with almost half response time (54%) in this benchmark. (Yes, I know about the saturation with high loads... More about this later.) Does the fastest mean 1) highest i/o rates? 2) lowest response times? 3) (1) and (2) at the same time? 4) With which kind of protocols? UDP / TCP, NFS / CIFS / ...? If you check the details, you can see many of them getting into saturation/overload problems.... http://www.spec.org/sfs97r1/results/res2003q4/sfs97r1-20031103-00166.htm l The graph really shows that Panasas wanted to hit the 300k mark and hit the saturation with 7.8 msec. :-) Same thing with BlueArc: http://www.spec.org/sfs97r1/results/res2004q3/sfs97r1-20040913-00203.htm l NetApp already stops at 2.5 msecs and not at 5.2msecs response time like BlueArc does ... One of the lousiest results comes from the EMC Celerra NS600 cluster: 38459 ios @ 10.3 msecs ... ( http://www.spec.org/sfs97r1/results/res2003q1/sfs97r1-20030203-00125.htm l ) Let me try to have a look at still comparable "Real" and not Overall Response Times at 35k-40k io/s: (That's where NetApp stops with the single head.) Vendor Model CPU RAM NVRAM IO/s "Real" RT @ 35k-40k GB GB (if value is available, if not, next higher value) BlueArc Titan 32 1(+7) 14+8 1 40488 2.6 (1 FS) BlueArc Titan 32 2FS-Mod 2(+14) 28+8 2 40513 1.3 (2 FS) Exanet EX600FC 12 72 84 36390 0.8 IBM eServer p5 570 4(8) 128 16 44175 0.7 NetApp FAS980 2 8 0.5 36063 2.5 (1 FS) NetApp FAS980c 4 16 1 41157 1.0 (2 FS) Panasas Active Scale 60 240 240 60864 0.8 Spinnaker SpinServer 4100 12 24 10 35536 1.1 Smaller (not even the half) RAM size than Titan 32: ==================================================== The FAS980 (8 GB RAM) is still almost as fast as the Titan 32 (22 GB): 36063 @ 2.5 msec. <-> 40488 @ 2.6 msec. Same RAM size comparison: ==================================== The FAS980 cluster (16 GB RAM) is 2.5 (!) times faster than the Titan 32 (14+8 GB): 41157 @ 1.0 msec. <-> 40488 @ 2.6 msec. Dual "Head" comparison: ===================================== The FAS980 cluster (16 GB RAM) is still faster than the Titan 32 with two FileSystemModules (24+8 GB) which is not even is a cluster. 41157 @ 1.0 msec. <-> 40513 @ 1.3 msec. b.t.w. :The FAS980c is a real cluster and afaik BlueArc doesn't have clustered high availability solutions: http://www.bluearc.com/html/library/downloads/titan_spec.pdf => If I compare the RAM and cache sizes of NetApp to the competitors ... I finaly see one thing: NetApp offers a very thin, io-optimized operating system with an excellent filesystem that is able to create a still "good" performance with even small "cheap" hardware. Please, don't start discussing the prices for the software licenses... ;-) but afaik they are still acceptable. :-) So, if you change your expression about the fastest BlueArc NAS-solution to something like "fastest NAS with one single CPU (with many (7) FPGAs support), with ...". In this very small area, BlueArc "appears" to have the fastest solutions, currently. Imho: If NetApp would start the same lousy saturation trick with the FAS980, they would reach the same results. But beside this small area where BlueArc "tops", I only can see big marketing efforts of them in trying to cheat/fool/mislead (don't know which one of these expressions is the softest...) the customers in yelling out loud "we are the fastest". And this is something I really don't like ... and reminds me to other storage vendors I also prefer to not use ... ;-) So imho we should give the "Fastest-NAS-crown" to the IBM eServer p5 570 (SingleHead/Backplane) 145362 @ 1.17 or the Panasas AS Cluster (ClusteredMultiHead) 305805 @ 1.76. BlueArc gets my current "We did the lousy saturation trick and/but yell it out loud" crown. :-( ;-) So therefore my question once again: Why do you believe that "Bluearc" is the fastest NAS-solution provider? I tried to explain my current opinion and hope you or anyone else can enlighten me if I'm wrong. Best regards! Dirk Schmiedt By the way: I still haven't found out, wether the SFS97r1 response time is measured on the client (including network delays) or on the server side? Can anybody explain this to me? So therefore I'm still dreaming of a multiprotocol high available, fault tolerant clustered NAS head which can do takeovers without loosing the states/connections (even at CIFS), with OS upgrades without visible reboots, with ... and it should not cost more than 1000$ @ head ... Just dreaming ... ;-)

1 0

Support for big-endian DCs
by Luke Howard 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

Is there any update on when Data ONTAP will support big-endian domain controllers? (This is bug 15548.) -- Luke --

2 2

can we do this together?
by akwanga＠terra.com.mx 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

Dear Friend I am a Director with the Department of Power and Steel and I represent a group that is interested in engaging your service as Manager of a large volume of fund for investment purpose. If this proposal is acceptable to you, please get back to me, so that we can work out a remuneration for your participation in the transaction,and also let you know on how we hope to acheive this objective. Please reply and as well send your telephone and fax number respectively for further contacts. Yours faithfully, Akwanga Graham ___________________________________________________________________________ Con Terra MAIL obtienes 6MB de espacio además de bloqueo ANTISPAM http://terramail.terra.com.mx/TerraMail/ Acceso a Internet 3 x 1, desde ¡$179 pesos al mes! http://www.terra.com.mx/acceso/suscribete/ Encuentra los mejores productos y precios increibles!! Aprovecha nuestra promoción a 12 pagos sin intereses con Banamex y Bancomer http://www.decompras.com/

1 0

RE: EMC vs NetApp
by SKIP HOFMANN 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

These products are really different animals. EMC is the leader for SANs Netapp is the leader for NAS they both have their place in business the FASTEST SAN is Hitachi the FASTEST NAS is BLUEARC NAS is good for CIFS SAN is good for High performance DAS replacement -----Original Message----- From: aaron hirsch [mailto:aaronh@uptime.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:21 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC vs NetApp Me to!!! Me to!!! Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Grant, Derek [mailto:Derek.Grant@StrategIT.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:45 AM To: Kelsey Cummings; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC vs NetApp I just wanted to add my name to the list. Could everyone who responded to Kelsey please forward their responses. I'd like to see how others felt about the two products and their experiences. Thanks Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Kelsey Cummings Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:30 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: EMC vs NetApp I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that responded to me off-list! Thanks! -- Kelsey Cummings - kgc(a)sonic.net sonic.net, inc. System Administrator 2260 Apollo Way 707.522.1000 (Voice) Santa Rosa, CA 95407 707.547.2199 (Fax) http://www.sonic.net/ Fingerprint = D5F9 667F 5D32 7347 0B79 8DB7 2B42 86B6 4E2C 3896

3 3

RE: EMC vs NetApp
by Haber, David J. 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Ditto -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of aaron hirsch Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:21 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC vs NetApp Me to!!! Me to!!! Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Grant, Derek [mailto:Derek.Grant@StrategIT.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:45 AM To: Kelsey Cummings; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC vs NetApp I just wanted to add my name to the list. Could everyone who responded to Kelsey please forward their responses. I'd like to see how others felt about the two products and their experiences. Thanks Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Kelsey Cummings Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:30 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: EMC vs NetApp I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that responded to me off-list! Thanks! -- Kelsey Cummings - kgc(a)sonic.net sonic.net, inc. System Administrator 2260 Apollo Way 707.522.1000 (Voice) Santa Rosa, CA 95407 707.547.2199 (Fax) http://www.sonic.net/ Fingerprint = D5F9 667F 5D32 7347 0B79 8DB7 2B42 86B6 4E2C 3896

1 0

RE: EMC vs NetApp
by aaron hirsch 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Me to!!! Me to!!! Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Grant, Derek [mailto:Derek.Grant@StrategIT.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:45 AM To: Kelsey Cummings; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: EMC vs NetApp I just wanted to add my name to the list. Could everyone who responded to Kelsey please forward their responses. I'd like to see how others felt about the two products and their experiences. Thanks Derek -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Kelsey Cummings Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:30 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: EMC vs NetApp I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that responded to me off-list! Thanks! -- Kelsey Cummings - kgc(a)sonic.net sonic.net, inc. System Administrator 2260 Apollo Way 707.522.1000 (Voice) Santa Rosa, CA 95407 707.547.2199 (Fax) http://www.sonic.net/ Fingerprint = D5F9 667F 5D32 7347 0B79 8DB7 2B42 86B6 4E2C 3896

1 0

Jump to page:

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

toasters