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13517 discussions

RE: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers
by George, Andrew 11 Nov '06

11 Nov '06

I wound up doing something similar for one of mine...doing a base level 0 ndmp and then runinning regular robocopies with the /mir flag set to keep both filesystems in synch while I was battling the change-monkeys for a window to actually move the puppy. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Sent: Saturday, 11 November 2006 1:34 PM To: Darren Dunham; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers Never underestimate the power of rsync. Here is what I did to move about 70mil files (lots of tiny files). With lots of tiny files, NDMCOPY spends a lot of time before it really transmits anything. In some cases of 10+ mil files on a busy filer I was waiting 4+ hours for files to begin copying (actual data, not just writing out sparse files for inodes). I found that if I ran a level 0 ndmpcopy on the weekend or during your off hours you can let it beat up the filer a little bit (and it will beat up both CPU and Disk util). Then, during the week run rsync's with --delete to keep things nicely in sync. This is something ndmpcopy can't do (I think).... if you do a level 0 + level 1 you won't get deletes. Doing the "catchup rsync's" gives you a good judge of timing on how long it will take you when you schedule your real outage. I recommend using rsync 2.6.6 or higher as it has significant memory efficiency compared to older versions. I used a 4 CPU Sun V440 to move a lot of data with rsync. Running a single process with a 16 million file list consumes as much as 8GB ram. I almost never found myself CPU bound and I found that CPU on the filer was much lighter than if I was doing an ndmpcopy. All of this depends on your rate of change for files, but overall I think rsync was faster for me after that initial copy. Since rsync wasn't using all my CPU, I broke it into an rsync for each top level directory, as many as 70 rsync processes in some of my migrations at the same time. This allowed me to sync up 16 million files in < 20 minutes in some cases. I suspect the level 1 ndmpcopy would be slower than that, but I'm not 100% sure. At the time of cutover, change the export to be read-only to block people from making change. This doesn't work if you have a subdirectory that is hitting a different export line. In this case I would do a second rsync and see what files were still changing and hunt down apps writing to that volume still. I'd be curious to know which method you end up going with and how it wo Original Message ---- From: Darren Dunham <ddunham(a)taos.com> To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:37:19 PM Subject: Re: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers > > I am getting ready to do a big data migration. I am planning on > > doing an initial level 0, and then multiple level 1's leading up to the big day. > > > > It doesn't make sense to me why you would do multiple level 1 copies > because a level 1 does not copy files that have changed since the > previous level 1. To do this you must use a level 2 copy. I agree with the spirt, but I would rephrase it. :-) A level 1 *does* copy all the files that have changed since the previous level 1. It's just that they are a subset of files modified since the level 0 which are copied as well. So running a level 1 on the last day should take about the same amount of time whether any other level 1 copies had been run previously or not. Agreed on the rest about 0/1/2 ndmpcopy, but for flexibility I do like rsync as an alternative. It's just how much power you can toss at it and how long you can wait for the file list when you've got millions of files. Remember you don't have to move everything in one rsync command. Espcially if you have multiple clients, it may may sense to split it up into a few separate subtrees. -- Darren Dunham ddunham(a)taos.com Senior Technical Consultant TAOS http://www.taos.com/ Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, CA bay area < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index "This e-mail and any attachments to it (the "Communication") is, unless otherwise stated, confidential, may contain copyright material and is for the use only of the intended recipient. If you receive the Communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete the Communication and the return e-mail, and do not read, copy, retransmit or otherwise deal with it. Any views expressed in the Communication are those of the individual sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited ABN 11 005 357 522, or any of its related entities including ANZ National Bank Limited (together "ANZ"). ANZ does not accept liability in connection with the integrity of or errors in the Communication, computer virus, data corruption, interference or delay arising from or in respect of the Communication."

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RE: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers
by Sphar, Mike 10 Nov '06

10 Nov '06

Is the source data in qtrees at least? If you haven't already, you might see if Netapp would give you a temporary SnapMirror license. We're doing some migrations also and they gave us some 30day licenses to do the migrations with. -- Michael W. Sphar - IS&T - Lead Systems Administrator SMBU Engineering Support Services, BMC Software -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Paul Letta Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:22 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: ndmpcopy, jndmpcopy and multiple level 1 transfers I am getting ready to do a big data migration. I am planning on doing an initial level 0, and then multiple level 1's leading up to the big day. I know the that native ndmpcopy in OnTap 7.1 can only do one level 1, and one level 2 for each level 0. But I have read that if you get ndmpcopy or jnmdpcopy from ndmp.org that it supports multiple level 1 dumps based on the same level 0. But I am getting the same errors I got with the native ndmpcopy when I use ndmpcopy and jndmpcopy from a unix host. I just grabbed the latest copies for ndmp.org yesterday. > java jndmpcopy.JNdmpcopy -version java version "1.4.2" gcj (GCC) 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-3) So I did a level 0, and then one level 1 that both worked just fine. Then I re-ran the level 1 with the same command, and get the errors below. This is the same error I get if I try this with the native ndmpcopy command on the filer itself. I am moving about 1TB of data (about 16M files) off of 1 traditional volume onto multiple new flex vols on the same filer. If what I'm doing is flat out wrong, what would others suggest ? tar wouldn't give me the incrementals and rsync would take a long time with this number of files. Suggestions ? Thanks, Paul > java jndmpcopy.JNdmpcopy filer:/vol/vol0/source filer:/vol/destination -sa xxxxxxx -da xxxxxxx -level 1 Nov 09 03:53:25 [ndmpd:0]: Now waiting for source and destination to finish. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:25 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: creating "/vol/vol0/../snapshot_for_backup.153" snapshot. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:26 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Using subtree dump SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Date of this level 1 dump: Thu Nov 9 15:53:25 2006. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Date of last level 0 dump: Thu Nov 9 15:48:10 2006. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Dumping /vol/vol0/source to NDMP connection SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:42 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: mapping (Pass I)[regular files] SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:53:43 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: mapping (Pass II)[directories] SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:09 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: estimated 18 KB. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:09 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: dumping (Pass III) [directories] DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: Thu Nov 9 15:54:13 2006: Begin incremental restore DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: This incremental dump does not follow the previous dump that you have restored. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: This dump is based on Thu Nov 9 15:48:10 2006. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: It should be based on Thu Nov 9 15:50:28 2006. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: Could not use tape. DstFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: RESTORE: RESTORE IS ABORTED Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: DstFiler just halted. Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: Reason: ndmp_data_halted_internal_error : Dump aborted. SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:13 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: dumping (Pass IV) [regular files] SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:17 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Network communication error SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:17 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: DUMP IS ABORTED SrcFiler: Nov 09 03:54:18 [ndmpd:0]: DUMP: Deleting "/vol/vol0/../snapshot_for_backup.153" snapshot. Nov 09 03:54:19 [ndmpd:0]: SrcFiler just halted. Nov 09 03:54:19 [ndmpd:0]: Reason: ndmp_data_halted_internal_error : Dump aborted. Nov 09 03:54:19 [ndmpd:0]: jndmpcopy finished -- Paul Letta Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility Computer Center Unix System Administrator EMail: letta(a)jlab.org Phone: (757)269-5106

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RE: ssh config on DOT 7
by Creek, Toby 09 Nov '06

09 Nov '06

Vmware's client doesn't have 3des-cbc in its list of available ciphers, although it is compiled in. Add "3des-cbc" to the end of the Ciphers line in the /etc/ssh.conf and it'll work fine. That's the only cipher the NetApp implements. Toby > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dekhayser [mailto:gdekhayser@voyantinc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 3:20 PM > To: Darren Dunham; toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: RE: ssh config on DOT 7 > > Well, we had the problem when trying to get SSH scripting > working with VMWare ESX 3 and the Netapp, and we did in fact > need authorized_keys2 on both the VMWare and the Netapp box > in order to get RSA/SSHv2 working. > We tried for a long time to get that working, perhaps we were > missing something. When we mentioned this to Netapp they > confirmed that our assessment was correct and they edited the docs. > > > > Be CAREFUL here: the filename is "authorized_keys2" for the SSH > > version2 file, the docs didn't say that, I actually told > netapp about > > that Doc bug. Authorized_keys is for version 1, which you shouldn't > be > > using anymore. Netapp's SSH client is based on OpenSSH so you can > > follow any docs on that to see how it really works. > > Then that would be a difference from the standard OpenSSH releases. > OpenSSH does not require the use of "authorized_keys2" (or > hasn't for years). Both v1 and v2 keys happily live together > in the default location of ".ssh/authorized_keys". > > I haven't used this feature in OnTAP, so I don't know if it > is required for setup there. > > -- > Darren Dunham > ddunham(a)taos.com > Senior Technical Consultant TAOS > http://www.taos.com/ > Got some Dr Pepper? San Francisco, > CA bay area > < This line left intentionally blank to confuse you. > > >

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RE: ssh config on DOT 7
by Potakamuri, Sreenivasa 08 Nov '06

08 Nov '06

All public keys should simply be put into the "authorized_keys" file for both SSH protocols 1 and 2 for public key authentication. This is true for all versions of ONTAP. "authorized_keys2" file was an alternative location for SSH2 protocol, and its use has been deprecated in NetApp's SSH implementation. For backward compatibility, NetApp's SSH implementation still looks for keys in "authorized_keys2" file. Regards, Sreenivasa Potakamuri Network Appliance !-----Original Message----- !From: Glenn Dekhayser [mailto:gdekhayser@voyantinc.com] !Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:48 AM !To: toasters(a)mathworks.com !Subject: RE: ssh config on DOT 7 ! ! !Be CAREFUL here: the filename is "authorized_keys2" for the SSH !version2 file, the docs didn't say that, I actually told netapp about !that Doc bug. Authorized_keys is for version 1, which you shouldn't be !using anymore. Netapp's SSH client is based on OpenSSH so you can !follow any docs on that to see how it really works. ! !Glenn (the other one) ! !-----Original Message----- ! !> Hello all, !> !> So I finally got DOT 7 put into production so I can now use ssh !> without an addition license. My question is where do I put my !> authorized_keys file so I can use key based authentication on the !> netapp? (i.e. where is or where should I create the .ssh directory) !> !> Thanks for any help, !> ! !

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ssh config on DOT 7
by Sheldon Mustard 08 Nov '06

08 Nov '06

Hello all, So I finally got DOT 7 put into production so I can now use ssh without an addition license. My question is where do I put my authorized_keys file so I can use key based authentication on the netapp? (i.e. where is or where should I create the .ssh directory) Thanks for any help, SJM -- Sheldon Mustard smustard(a)gmail.com "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) --

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Re: 7.2 stability
by Grey Friday 08 Nov '06

08 Nov '06

We are running 7.2P2 as well for bug 213380 The components in Filer View applets are disabled when SSL is enabled on the filer But only on non important things. I was hoping that this was a decent rel. but apparently not. I would like to make use of CIFS being in it's own domain but maybe not till later eh... I don't have the link off the top of my head but I think 7.0.5 is the only GD rel currently. Some one correct me if I'm wrong. If anyone else knows anything CIFS related please share it. We have more CIFS than anything in this environment. Thanks, Grey- On 11/7/06, Willeke, Jochen <Jochen.Willeke(a)wincor-nixdorf.com> wrote: Hi Grey, > > we have already deployed 7.2P2 and it has a Bug in WAFL which makes the > filer reboot for some kind of reason. > Sadly we where hit by this error just 5 hours after installing > 7.2P2...Luckily never again :D > > Netapp provided a patch 7.2P2D2 espacially for this problem which will > be installed this weekend on our systems. > > I think you should wait until it is GD. BTW there was a link on NOW > where i could see all releases and which ones are GD but i do not find > it anymore. Do you know where it can be found on NOW? > > Regards > > Jochen > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] > On Behalf Of Grey Friday > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:43 PM > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: 7.2 stability > > So what's the word on 7.2 ready for install or still hold off? >

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Windows Explorer showing incorrect disk space totals
by Stephen C. Losen 25 Oct '06

25 Oct '06

We have a filer running DOT 7.0.1R1 with a qtree named /vol/h2/t54 with NTFS security style and this share: fccf /vol/h2/t54/fccf Here are the quota file entries that pertain to the qtree: * user@/vol/h2 - - (users unlimited in the volume) * group@/vol/h2 - - (groups unlimited in the volume) /vol/h2/t45 tree 500000M 500000K (tree quota approx 500G) * user@/vol/h2/t54 500000M 500000K (users can use all of qtree) Quotas are on and "quota report /vol/h2/t54" indicates that the qtree is using 184408104 KB out of 512000000 KB. Essentially all used space is beneath the /vol/h2/t54/fccf directory. When I map the fccf share with Windows Explorer and right click the drive letter and look at "properties" it reports the correct amount of available disk space: 327591896 KB, but it reports only 35892088 KB used (instead of 184408104) and reports the total capacity as 363483984 KB (instead of 512000000). I looked at bugs online and saw a couple bugs where Explorer or CIFS reports incorrect values, but these don't seem to apply to this situation and the bugs are fixed. Is there anything I can do besides telling folks to only pay attention to available space (which is correct) and ignore the other values ? Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 434-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support

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RE: Anyone know what this means?
by Fox, Adam 19 Oct '06

19 Oct '06

Best bet here is to open a case, but *in general* this occurs something happens in the initial SnapMirror handshake. It could be a network drop, it could be a really busy filer that didn't respond in time, it could be other things. Tech Support may be able to examine your logs and see if something else was going on at the time. It's not really possible to tell from just the message, however. Hope this helps. -- Adam Fox NGS Tools Developer adamfox(a)netapp.com _____ From: Bender, Marilee [mailto:Marilee.Bender@delta.com] Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:22 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Anyone know what this means? Async snapmirror relationship between FAS3050 and R200. Snapmirrors starting failing one day - They have been set up for a year or more and ran without issue. Now, sometimes they complete, sometimes they appear to "hang". Ontap 7.0.4P9 on both source and dest. What could this error indicate? "Error in snapmirror sync mode negotiation" Thanks

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Anyone know what this means?
by Bender, Marilee 19 Oct '06

19 Oct '06

Async snapmirror relationship between FAS3050 and R200. Snapmirrors starting failing one day - They have been set up for a year or more and ran without issue. Now, sometimes they complete, sometimes they appear to "hang". Ontap 7.0.4P9 on both source and dest. What could this error indicate? "Error in snapmirror sync mode negotiation" Thanks

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replacing a broken disk in 5.3.6R2
by Frank Smith 19 Oct '06

19 Oct '06

It's been a long time since I've dealt with NetApps, so there may be a simple solution to this that I've forgotten. Had a couple of disks fail on an old F720, the first one caused a rebuild onto the hot spare, the second one put it into degraded mode. An admin pulled the dead drives (w/o first doing a 'disk remove') and inserted a two of the same size drives from a retired system that used to be its twin (same H/W and firmware), but sysconfig -r still shows the 2 disks as broken. The references I have all seem to be for later releases, as priv set advanced disk unfail <DISK> comes back with disk: Did not recognize option "unfail". Also, I seemed to recall that the replaced drives would show up as foreign volumes since they weren't zeroed on the old system, so perhaps the system just doesn't realize the drives were replaced. I also remember that years ago when I hot-swapped a drive, the 720 seemed to 'freeze' for a minute or so, but the guy who replaced the drive said he didn't notice any pause in the activity lights on the other drives as he was replacing the failed drives. I did remember that it will only run for 24 hours in degraded mode, so I've set raid.timeout to a bigger number to buy me some time. Any suggestions on how to get it to recognize the 'new' disks? Thanks, Frank -- Frank Smith fsmith(a)hoovers.com Sr. Systems Administrator Voice: 512-374-4673 Hoover's Online Fax: 512-374-4501

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RE: NSO-151 - NetApp SAN Exam-Dumps
by Sphar, Mike 17 Oct '06

17 Oct '06

I've only taken the first basic exam, a while back at the urging of my manager, and amusingly one of the things I got dinged on was that I apparently did not know how to request replacement parts on the website, despite the fact that I've been actually *doing* that periodically for about 10 years now and have never had a problem. Personally, my opinion is that while reading/studying the manuals will probably get you close, you will have a tough time passing the tests without actual administration experience. And conversely even years of administration experience may not be enough to pass without some backup studying as well, unless your lucky enough to work someplace that utilizes almost all available Netapp products/functionality. -- Michael W. Sphar - IS&T - Lead Systems Administrator SMBU Engineering Support Services, BMC Software -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Grey Friday Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:55 AM To: etraitel(a)gmail.com Cc: sithesvaran thirumaran; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: NSO-151 - NetApp SAN Exam-Dumps On 10/14/06, Eyal Traitel <etraitel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi ! > > Except from being illegal, there is really no need for brain dumps - read the manuals left to right and you would do fine. The questions are on commands, command options, concepts etc that are described in details in the Block Admin guides. > > Eyal. > http://filers.blogspot.com > http://stupidstorage.blogspot.com> > > > > > On 10/14/06, sithesvaran thirumaran <sithu_t2000(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi, > > How r u all. I need one help. I am planning to write NSO-151-SAN Exam, I need dumps for it. Can you please help me, if anyone have it? > > Thanks, > Sithesvaran. Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. > > > -- > Yours, > Eyal.

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NetApp showing up as backup browser
by Geotina, Glenn 17 Oct '06

17 Oct '06

Hello all, I have a Windows user that has one our NetApps running 7.0.3 show up in his master browser list. He runs the following command: browstat status Is there a way to configure a NetApp to not participate in Windows browsing elections? Thanks, Glenn

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NSO-151 - NetApp SAN Exam-Dumps
by sithesvaran thirumaran 17 Oct '06

17 Oct '06

Hi, How r u all. I need one help. I am planning to write NSO-151-SAN Exam, I need dumps for it. Can you please help me, if anyone have it? Thanks, Sithesvaran. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

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Re: Statistics and Forecasting
by Reinoud Reynders 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

We do almost the same. We pull every week the data from dfm in a sql 2005 database and use the report module of ms sql 2005 to make reports. We need an overview longer than 1 year and we need also to track data movements. This last thing (I move a qtree/volume to another filer) is very difficult to do in dfm. This is a new resource for dfm. We have create in dfm a lot of custom tags that we use to build our reports. Best regards, Reinoud Reynders UZ Leuven -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com <owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com> To: Carl Howell <chowell(a)uwf.edu>; toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Thu Oct 12 02:12:48 2006 Subject: RE: Statistics and Forecasting We used to dump DFM info into spreadsheets and then conduct analysis on each filer to come up with a simple traffic light report for management with another complex spreadsheet to justify what we were asking for next years disk spend (also based on DFM info and known other factors like upcoming projects). Since then we've moved to DFM 3.3 so I've been pointing management at a couple of existing reports for day to day stuff (the new multilevel menu is really handy for presenting the right dataset) and made a couple of custom reports for disk usage (another fix over previous DFM's was they changed how growth forecasts were calculated so I 90% believe them now). I do dump some DFM figures into a spreadsheet every 6 months or so, because I've been hit with a couple of the ever popular "we want growth figures going back to 2002" from various parties in the past. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Carl Howell Sent: Thursday, 12 October 2006 4:28 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Statistics and Forecasting What are you guys doing to provide storage statistics to your administrators for growth and budget forecasting? We run DFM, but I'm struggling to translate the statistics we get from it into something the administration can understand and act upon. Thanks in advance for the the help, Carl Howell Systems Engineer University of West Florida "This e-mail and any attachments to it (the "Communication") is, unless otherwise stated, confidential, may contain copyright material and is for the use only of the intended recipient. If you receive the Communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete the Communication and the return e-mail, and do not read, copy, retransmit or otherwise deal with it. Any views expressed in the Communication are those of the individual sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited ABN 11 005 357 522, or any of its related entities including ANZ National Bank Limited (together "ANZ"). ANZ does not accept liability in connection with the integrity of or errors in the Communication, computer virus, data corruption, interference or delay arising from or in respect of the Communication."

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RE: Statistics and Forecasting
by George, Andrew 12 Oct '06

12 Oct '06

We used to dump DFM info into spreadsheets and then conduct analysis on each filer to come up with a simple traffic light report for management with another complex spreadsheet to justify what we were asking for next years disk spend (also based on DFM info and known other factors like upcoming projects). Since then we've moved to DFM 3.3 so I've been pointing management at a couple of existing reports for day to day stuff (the new multilevel menu is really handy for presenting the right dataset) and made a couple of custom reports for disk usage (another fix over previous DFM's was they changed how growth forecasts were calculated so I 90% believe them now). I do dump some DFM figures into a spreadsheet every 6 months or so, because I've been hit with a couple of the ever popular "we want growth figures going back to 2002" from various parties in the past. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Carl Howell Sent: Thursday, 12 October 2006 4:28 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Statistics and Forecasting What are you guys doing to provide storage statistics to your administrators for growth and budget forecasting? We run DFM, but I'm struggling to translate the statistics we get from it into something the administration can understand and act upon. Thanks in advance for the the help, Carl Howell Systems Engineer University of West Florida "This e-mail and any attachments to it (the "Communication") is, unless otherwise stated, confidential, may contain copyright material and is for the use only of the intended recipient. If you receive the Communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete the Communication and the return e-mail, and do not read, copy, retransmit or otherwise deal with it. Any views expressed in the Communication are those of the individual sender only, unless expressly stated to be those of Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited ABN 11 005 357 522, or any of its related entities including ANZ National Bank Limited (together "ANZ"). ANZ does not accept liability in connection with the integrity of or errors in the Communication, computer virus, data corruption, interference or delay arising from or in respect of the Communication."

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RE: Interesting FAS250 note on Tape connectivity
by Learmonth, Peter 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hi Guys Couple notes on ROHS v. non-ROHS FAS250/270. Yes, all the FC connections are now SFP sockets. ROHS FAS270 has two SFP ports: one for tape or FC SAN (with SFP installed) and one for disk expansion shelves (no SFP installed). ROHS FAS250 has one SFP port for tape (with SFP installed). You can tell in sysconfig -a or -v which one you have by the manufacturing part number (a.k.a. 3x5 number) FAS250 non-ROHS 110-00016 FAS250 ROHS 110-00052 FAS270 non-ROHS 110-00046 FAS270 ROHS 110-00051 Supposedly, all units shipped after a certain date (08 May 2006) are supposed to be ROHS versions. I haven't found that to be entirely reliable. As for what you get via RMA, "It depends (tm)". Basically, if you have ROHS, you should get ROHS. If it ships to a ROHS country and it's after the ROHS compliance date, you get ROHS even if you originally had non-ROHS. If it ships to a non-ROHS country and you have non-ROHS, you get a non-ROHS replacement, at least until they run out. In general, the only problems with getting a ROHS replacement for a non-ROHS is tape connection on FA250 and shelf connection on FAS270. For the non-ROHS FAS250 and tape, if you have an optical tape interface, you're probably using some kind of converter, like Tim Naple was talking about. Now you don't need it. If you have a copper connection to tape, you need a different cable with SFP instead of HSSDDC2. For FAS270 shelves, you'll need X6530 SFP-SFP shelf cables from each head (i.e. 2 in a cluster) to the first shelf. I don't know if the RMA procedure checks for that, but you can certainly tell from sysconfig (it lists both the head part numbers and the modules in the shelves). Personally, I think the change to SFP is a good thing since overall it greatly simplifies cabling. Share and enjoy! Peter --- "Oliver Bassett" <Oliver.Bassett(a)infinity.co.nz <mailto:Oliver.Bassett@infinity.co.nz> > wrote: > > Glenn, > > Yes I have seen a couple of these now. I have set one up with direct > connect to a tape library via optical FC using NDMP to control the > backups. It isn't acutally optical LC until you put the GBIC in, so yeah > it is a lot more flexible than before. > > As for the in the field replacement, I suspect you probably would end up > with one of the ROHS units but it isn't a definate thing. If you are > selecting the RMA part yourself select the one that has a part number > ending in R5 as this is the ROHS kit. > > Regards > Oliver > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com> [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] > On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser > Sent: Friday, 6 October 2006 8:07 a.m. > To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <mailto:toasters@mathworks.com> > Subject: Interesting FAS250 note on Tape connectivity > > >From the NOW Forums: > > "FAS250 units ordered after 8-May-2006 are now fitted with optical LC > (instead of copper HSSDC2) connector style. This change in connection > with ROHS compliance." > > This was a major pain in the keester before, as there were only a few > copper-FC tape devices available. Has anyone seen these newer units? > I didn't see any announcements made on this, and the online system > config guide still shows the copper HSSDC2 port, not fiber. > > Also, if there was a FAS250 in the field that needed a controller > replacement, would Netapp ship the new RoHS compliant controller, or the > older one? > > Glenn (the other one). > The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential and > intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you > are asked to respect that confidentiality and not disclose, copy or make use > of its contents. If received in error you are asked to destroy this email > and contact the sender immediately. Your assistance is appreciated.

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FAS960: backup speed vs simultaneous dumps...?
by Glascock, Donald 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hi, Toaster folks -- We're a small research group on our third Filer, which is a single FAS960 with five shelves on two cross-connected 2-Gb loops. We trigger flexVolume-level dumps of our one aggregate directly to 2-Gb-fibre-connected LTO-3 drives. When we dump two volumes simultaneously to two tape drives, the time taken to dump each volume increases by a third to a half again, compared to dumping each volume independently. For example, a stand-alone dump may take two hours, but if another dump of another volume to another drive is run simultaneously, then that two-hour dump becomes a three-hour dump. Adding a third simultaneous dump to a third drive causes an even greater increase in dump times. For diagnostic purposes, I've launched a conventional dump of one volume triggered via NDMP our backup software, waited for the dump to reach Phase-IV (the writing-data phase), and launched from the FAS960's console a dump of another volume to the FAS960's null device. Soon after this second dump starts, the write speed on the tape drive associated with the first dump falls off by quite a bit. This write speed picks up instantly when I kill the second dump. Since the second dump was only in Phase-I (inspecting files, but not writing them), and since this second dump was to the local null device anyway, I'm led to think that the performance issues lie somewhere within the Filer's head and Disk I/O subsystem. With one-at-a-time backups of our volumes, our full backup window is about eight hours (for about two terabytes). We were planning to buy two more shelves in early 2007. Should I expect a FAS960 to handle two or three simultaneous full dumps without a significant loss in dump speed? Are you getting nearly-linear performance out of your simultaneous dumps? Thanks for your time & have a great day! Don Glascock -- Donald S. Glascock Mailstop RO-SN-2-SPPDG Special Purpose Processor Development Group Mayo Foundation 4001 41st Street NW Rochester, MN 55901 Glascock.Donald(a)Mayo.EDU +1.507.538.5467 +1.507.284.9171 (fax) http://www.mayo.edu/sppdg/ "No matter where you go, there you are."

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Statistics and Forecasting
by Carl Howell 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

What are you guys doing to provide storage statistics to your administrators for growth and budget forecasting? We run DFM, but I'm struggling to translate the statistics we get from it into something the administration can understand and act upon. Thanks in advance for the the help, Carl Howell Systems Engineer University of West Florida

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Statistics and Forecasting
by Carl Howell 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

What are you guys doing to provide storage statistics to your administrators for growth and budget forecasting? We run DFM, but I'm struggling to translate the statistics we get from it into something the administration can understand and act upon. Thanks in advance for the help, Carl Howell Systems Engineer University of West Florida

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Re: Problem renewing maintenance
by Chris Thompson 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

You may recall that back in June I wrote: > We're having a problem renewing maintenance cover on our F810. > I wonder whether anyone else has had a similar experience. > > It's being done through a secondary supplier who had better remain > nameless for the moment (just in case it's their fault rather than > NetApp's...). We originally brought 3 years of cover: > > "Next Business Day Parts Delivery" for failed disks (which has > worked fine, incidentally); > > "4 hours onsite service" for the base unit and disk shelf. > > Now we are being told that we can't have such a combination: it has > to be all NBD Parts or all 4hrs Onsite. This doesn't make any sense > to us. Disk failures are non-critical, and only the ... (ahem) very > differently abled ... need someone to come and swap a disk for them! > OTOH, base unit & shelf failures would be critical for us. > > Please tell me that NetApp haven't _really_ made it this difficult > to buy the obviously appropriate combination of cover! which got a number of helpful responses, and I then wrote: > Stephen C Woods <scw(a)seas.ucla.edu> wrote > > > Yes they have. We got nailed whwn we renewed our support last > > November. OUCH! > > Michael A Schipp <mschipp(a)asi.com.au> wrote: > > > Stephen is correct, Netapp did change it! However if you get > > you supplier to talk to Netapp they should be able to request a PRV from > > Netapp to renew the maintenance (Should is up to Netapp to approve - so > > may or may not happen). > > Thanks for this information, and I'll certainly try and get that last > suggestion acted on by our supplier. Well, our secondary suppliers (Majenta Solutions, for the record, and they are totally blameless in all this as far as I can see) did finally manage to get us the following deal 4 hour onsite cover for the base filer Next Busness Day parts delivery for the shelf and disks (it proved impossible to distinguish the shelf from the disks) for about the mean of the all-4hr and all-NBD quotes. So we went for that. Or so we thought... We have had two disk failures since then [*] and on each occasion NetApp shipped a replacement disc to the 4-hour schedule. So they must think that is what we paid for. I suppose it ought to be flattering that NetApp think we require a replacement disk that fast, but actually it's a pain in the posterior, as we aren't set up to accept deliveries 7x24. I suppose next year we'll say To Hell With It, and go for NBD for everything. [*] an unusually high rate in a 14-disc system, on past experience: one of them was just after a reboot upgrading ONTAP, the other a few hours after a scheduled outage of our Uninterruptible Power Supply ... no, don't ask, you don't want to know :-( -- Chris Thompson Email: cet1(a)cam.ac.uk

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Quotes?
by Grey Friday 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Has it been anyone else's experience that IBM is beating the pants off of other resellers? I'm talking by 50%? I'd like to hear from you if you find this the case as well.

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RE: Removing a disk from an aggregate
by Fox, Adam 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

This is generally not possible. The only disks that can be removed from an aggregate is the dparity disk by changing the RAID type from RAID-DP to RAID-4. And you can only do this if your current RG is not over the max size for RAID-4. Sorry. -- Adam Fox NGS Tools Developer adamfox(a)netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Alan Biren [mailto:ABiren@asisystem.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 12:37 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Removing a disk from an aggregate Does anyone know of a way to permanently remove a disk from one a RAID Group in an Aggregate. One of my Administrators create an aggregate with raidsize of 14 disks and used all available disks to fill the raid group. There are now no spares in the system. The current aggregate already has a production volume on it so destroying the aggregate is really not an option. Thanks ************************************************************************ ***************************** Note: ASI System Integration Inc, is located at 48 West 37th Street, New York, NY 10018. The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential. It is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager or the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies. ** eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals or malicious content ** ************************************************************************ *****************************

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RE: Estimating Aggregate IOPS
by Glenn Walker 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Actually, That's a function of the ESH (6 shelves * 14 drives = 84 disks per loop). What I'm referring to is a bit different: as you ramp up the number of drives, the performance curve begins to increase - however, after you reach a certain number of drives, the sheer work behind laying the data out on them all (and retrieving it) begins to take it's toll and flatten the performance curve. (I would assume that contention on the loop would have something to do with this as well, not that it's saturated necessarily, but that there is a bit more latency as the disks take turns passing data). Glenn -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Rajagopalan [mailto:SRajagopalan@williamoneil.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:32 PM To: Glenn Walker Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Estimating Aggregate IOPS I see max drives per FC loop to be 84 on all filer models. Is this the limit you are alluding to? Thanks Suresh -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Walker [mailto:ggwalker@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:57 PM To: Suresh Rajagopalan Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Estimating Aggregate IOPS There is a ceiling in performance gain after a certain number of disks - it's well below 112, but I'm pretty sure it's above 56 (though not much above it). At that point, the 'curve' starts to go back down again. However, RAID-DP and RAID-4 (it's poor, homely cousin) are very fast and the filer has always handled the XORs very well for the parity calculations. A better question\way to position this might be what type of workload\performance you expect\require. While the disks are capable of about 120 IOPS for 10k and 180 IOPS for 15K disks, the latencies begin to jump at the end of the scale - if you're workload requires lower latencies, it doesn't much matter what the disk is capable of (Exchange is a very good example of this - 80 IOPS for 10k drives is about the max you'd want to go). Glenn -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Suresh Rajagopalan Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:56 PM Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Estimating Aggregate IOPS Let's assume 4k IOPS. Disks are currently 10k rpm. Are you saying that NTAP's implementation of RAID4 (or RAID-DP) gives a linear performance increase with spindles, (almost like RAID-0) and no penalty for the RAID4 or RAID-DP? That is, aggregate IOPS is pretty much (N * disk-iops) and no penalty for RAID4 or RAID-DP? Thanks Suresh -----Original Message----- From: Blake Golliher [mailto:thelastman@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:41 PM To: Suresh Rajagopalan Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Estimating Aggregate IOPS How fast are the spindles, and what size is your iop? Generally, you can assume 110 per 10k RPM disk, and 180 for 15k RPM disk. This is also assuming a 10ms latency for each iop. And subtract 2 disks per raid group for raid dp (if doing writes, don't if you are doing pure reads). So with around 50 disks (after you subtract the raid dp overhead) you can expect around 5500 iops from that set of disks (assuming 10k rpm disks). For the 112 aggregate, you an expect 98 spindles and 10780 iops. I'm assuming 4k iops, and 10ms latency. Hope that helps, -Blake On 10/4/06, Suresh Rajagopalan <SRajagopalan(a)williamoneil.com> wrote: > Given a disk IOPS of 100, I'd like to estimate total aggregate IOPS for > the following cases: > > 1) 56 disks, 1 aggregate, RAID-DP size 16 > 2) 112 disks, 1 aggregate, RAID-DP size 16 > > I'm only interested in the total raw disk IOPS available in each case, > not including considering the filer head. For example, we know that > RAID-0 with 56 disks @100 would yield 5600 IOPS. > > I don't know how to do this calculation with Data ONTAP's implementation > of RAID4 or RAID-DP. > > Any assistance would help. > > Thanks > Suresh > > > > >

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RE: Interesting FAS250 note on Tape connectivity
by Oliver Bassett 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

Glenn, Yes I have seen a couple of these now. I have set one up with direct connect to a tape library via optical FC using NDMP to control the backups. It isn't acutally optical LC until you put the GBIC in, so yeah it is a lot more flexible than before. As for the in the field replacement, I suspect you probably would end up with one of the ROHS units but it isn't a definate thing. If you are selecting the RMA part yourself select the one that has a part number ending in R5 as this is the ROHS kit. Regards Oliver -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Friday, 6 October 2006 8:07 a.m. To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Interesting FAS250 note on Tape connectivity From the NOW Forums: "FAS250 units ordered after 8-May-2006 are now fitted with optical LC (instead of copper HSSDC2) connector style. This change in connection with ROHS compliance." This was a major pain in the keester before, as there were only a few copper-FC tape devices available. Has anyone seen these newer units? I didn't see any announcements made on this, and the online system config guide still shows the copper HSSDC2 port, not fiber. Also, if there was a FAS250 in the field that needed a controller replacement, would Netapp ship the new RoHS compliant controller, or the older one? Glenn (the other one). The information contained in this email is privileged and confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are asked to respect that confidentiality and not disclose, copy or make use of its contents. If received in error you are asked to destroy this email and contact the sender immediately. Your assistance is appreciated.

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Interesting FAS250 note on Tape connectivity
by Glenn Dekhayser 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

From the NOW Forums: "FAS250 units ordered after 8-May-2006 are now fitted with optical LC (instead of copper HSSDC2) connector style. This change in connection with ROHS compliance." This was a major pain in the keester before, as there were only a few copper-FC tape devices available. Has anyone seen these newer units? I didn't see any announcements made on this, and the online system config guide still shows the copper HSSDC2 port, not fiber. Also, if there was a FAS250 in the field that needed a controller replacement, would Netapp ship the new RoHS compliant controller, or the older one? Glenn (the other one).

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