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13531 discussions

vol copy speed and copying over root aggregate
by Borzenkov, Andrey 02 Mar '07

02 Mar '07

Hi, This is relatively urgent. We are facing the following problem. We need to move data on FAS270C (appr. 2TB) onto another set of disks. There is a single aggregate that contains root volume and one or two (on two heads respectively) large volumes with single LUN on each. All volumes except root are 100% full. DOT 7.0.3. Disks are 146GB 10K, RAID_DP, 14 disks on each head (average). Target set is 300GB 10K, RAID_DP, 11 disks on each head. I tested (under normal conditions) vol copy from root volume onto root volume copy. It tool 3 and half minutes for 440MB! It is absolutely unacceptable, we cannot afford this downtime. No the questions are - How are chances that without client load vol copy will be faster? What can explain that miserable performance for relatively small data set? - Which speed can be expected under these conditions? Normal on-tape (non NDMP) backup from client systems - Windows only, SAN attach - runs approximately 20MB/s which are still acceptable. - will aggr copy be faster and how much? If yes - how can I then switch root aggregate? To clarify - first I restrict target aggregate and make aggr copy. Then I put target aggregate online and get duplicate volumes, do not I? I _hope_ that filer will rename them, anyone can confirm? - any chance updating to 7.0.5 *before* copy will help? Thank you and I appreciate your answers. The downtime is scheduled for this weekend; it would quite a big problem with 2MB/s performance :( Regards Andrey Borzenkov Senior system engineer IT Product Services Fujitsu Siemens Computers Russian Federation Telephone: +7 (495) 730-6220 ext. 247 Telefax: +7 (495) 229 91 30 Mobile: +7 (916) 678-7208 Email: mailto:Andrey.Borzenkov@fujitsu-siemens.com Internet: http://www.fujitsu-siemens.ru/

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SANOWN not enabled
by Steven Mandrake 01 Mar '07

01 Mar '07

Hello, I recently replaced a brocade switch in my fabric. trying to see if my NTAP is connected to the switch. If I type normal commands like storage show fabric and switch -- I do not get a returned value. But one thing confuses me --- when I type 'storage show initiators' --- I get 'SANOWN not enabled' What does this mean? Now site doesn't have any information. Does this need to be enabled for NTAP to work on FC-SAN?

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dfm backup
by Leeds, Daniel 01 Mar '07

01 Mar '07

any dfm users out there? got another odd problem this time with dfm backup. if we issue a dfm backup command it runs through the steps but generates no backup file. it does spit out an error about not finding the db which i do not get... dfm backup create DANIEL Adaptive Server Anywhere Backup Utility Version 9.0.2.2452 Database server not found Waiting for existing writes to stop, which could take a few minutes. Please be patient ... Creating the archive ... Deleting any temporary directories. Restoring performance advisor status. Deleting any database backup job from database. no file called DANIEL exists anywhere that i can find...NOW did not result in a match on dfm backup issues. -- Daniel Leeds Senior Systems Administrator Edmunds.com

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RE: usermap problem
by Glenn Walker 01 Mar '07

01 Mar '07

For like usernames, it will work. You stated that the usernames that were not alike did not function, but the like user names did. How exactly is the filer going to map two users with unlike names together without usermap.cfg? Are you sure that the users aren't mapping to 'pcuser'? wcc -s <username> would show for sure. Glenn ________________________________ From: Langborg Tom [mailto:Tom.Langborg@smhi.se] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 7:44 AM To: Glenn Walker; Parisi, Justin; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SV: usermap problem No I have two other netapp's with 7.0.4, which is working. No usermap.cfg is needed. /tom ________________________________ Från: Glenn Walker [mailto:ggwalker@mindspring.com] Skickat: den 1 mars 2007 13:13 Till: Langborg Tom; Parisi, Justin; toasters(a)mathworks.com Ämne: RE: usermap problem If the unix names and windows names are not the same, you must always use usermap.cfg file. This has not changed since around ONTAP 5.2 to my knowledge. Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Langborg Tom Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 3:55 AM To: Parisi, Justin; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SV: usermap problem Yes I use usermap.cfg now But the old version could I use the ldap.usermap config. I don't want to manage a usermap.cfg when I have all information in ldap. I didn't need that in the Ontap 7.0.4. Regards tom ________________________________ Från: Parisi, Justin [mailto:Justin.Parisi@netapp.com] Skickat: den 28 februari 2007 20:33 Till: Langborg Tom; toasters(a)mathworks.com Ämne: RE: usermap problem You need to do your user mapping through the /etc/usermap.cfg file on the filer. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/guides/ontap_troubleshooting/… ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Langborg Tom Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:07 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: usermap problem Watch out. I got usermap problem after uppgrade to 7.2.1.1. I use ldap.usermap for usermapping. The unix name are not the same as windows name. With unix name same as windows name it still works. If there are someone who now any fix for this problem, Please send me a letter. Regards tom

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RE: usermap problem
by Glenn Walker 01 Mar '07

01 Mar '07

If the unix names and windows names are not the same, you must always use usermap.cfg file. This has not changed since around ONTAP 5.2 to my knowledge. Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Langborg Tom Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 3:55 AM To: Parisi, Justin; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: SV: usermap problem Yes I use usermap.cfg now But the old version could I use the ldap.usermap config. I don't want to manage a usermap.cfg when I have all information in ldap. I didn't need that in the Ontap 7.0.4. Regards tom ________________________________ Från: Parisi, Justin [mailto:Justin.Parisi@netapp.com] Skickat: den 28 februari 2007 20:33 Till: Langborg Tom; toasters(a)mathworks.com Ämne: RE: usermap problem You need to do your user mapping through the /etc/usermap.cfg file on the filer. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/olio/guides/ontap_troubleshooting/… ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Langborg Tom Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:07 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: usermap problem Watch out. I got usermap problem after uppgrade to 7.2.1.1. I use ldap.usermap for usermapping. The unix name are not the same as windows name. With unix name same as windows name it still works. If there are someone who now any fix for this problem, Please send me a letter. Regards tom

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usermap problem
by Langborg Tom 01 Mar '07

01 Mar '07

Watch out. I got usermap problem after uppgrade to 7.2.1.1. I use ldap.usermap for usermapping. The unix name are not the same as windows name. With unix name same as windows name it still works. If there are someone who now any fix for this problem, Please send me a letter. Regards tom

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FW: autosupport stops functioning
by Bender, Marilee 28 Feb '07

28 Feb '07

We had this issue too. I agree with the post below that it could be message size. However, if it's just past asups that were too large because of the messages file (or one of the other attachments), you can set the autosupport.content size to minimal to delete all the queued asups, then "doit" to generate one without the attachments to see if you receive it, then put the content back to complete. It cleared the issue on one of our NearStores....the other one appears to have a "corrupt" character in the data chunk as viewed from the smtp server logs. -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Sphar, Mike Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 2:19 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: autosupport stops functioning I don't think this is the same problem as the one originally posted, but we once had a similar problem here where autosupport messages stopped being received by netapp because our mail gateway was rejecting all messages larger than a certain size. We didn't even know they were bouncing (we weren't getting the bounces) until one of the mail admins finally said something about it. -- Michael W. Sphar - IS&T - Lead Systems Administrator SMBU Engineering Support Services, BMC Software -----Original Message----- From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Stephen C. Losen Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 6:55 AM To: Leeds, Daniel Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: autosupport stops functioning > > anyone else have this happen? > > suddenly one of our filers stops generating autosupport messages. both autosupport.enable and autosupport.support.enable are on. if i generate a test email with the autosupport.doit option nothing happens. not even a failed message, the console just sits there as if i never generated one. > > needless to say neither netapp or our email server gets anything from this filer and nothing hits the console about generating any autosupport emails. > > One of our filers stopped sending weekly autosupports because the /etc/messages file was huge (170MB). It gets sent to netapp as part of the autosupport. I got an automatic email from Netapp support telling me that they hadn't received an autosupport for two weeks. Buried in my huge /etc/messages file was an error indicating that autosupport had failed, but no reason why. This particular filer holds our home directories and gets a lot of CIFS logins, which we want to log. We have enabled CIFS login tracing, which is very verbose. I used /etc/syslog.conf to divert the CIFS auth messages to another file: *.warning;auth.none /dev/console *.info;auth.none /etc/messages auth.info /etc/cifs_auth_log I rotate the cifs_auth_log with a cron job because I think ONTAP will only rotate /etc/messages. Now /etc/messages only grows to about 200K and autosupport is working again. Steve Losen scl(a)virginia.edu phone: 434-924-0640 University of Virginia ITC Unix Support

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RE: data management through compression for Netapp
by Glenn Walker 28 Feb '07

28 Feb '07

NetApp is definitely spoiling me with their feature set! The dedupe thoughts were specific to NetApp - ie, if NetApp were to perform dedupe on the source, what would life be like. I wasn't aware that Data Domain wouldn't use NetApp back-end storage... deduping without having some impressive fault tolerance is NOT a good idea! Glenn ________________________________ From: Glenn Dekhayser [mailto:gdekhayser@voyantinc.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:26 AM To: Glenn Walker; Darren Soothill; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp Ah, Glenn, you're so spoiled with Netapp! :-) Problem is, with things like Data Domain, unless you're going to use the Netapp as back-end FC storage (which isn't supported yet), we're not in WAFL-land, so in most cases you are writing to the same place. And without Raid-DP, a single bit error on a raid rebuild could have a much bigger impact than normal, if that particular bit belongs to a byte that's referenced mulitple times in the de-duping scheme. Basically, I'm making the argument that if you're going to use de-duping- Raid-DP and WAFL is a MUST! Regarding the caching- de-duping would eliminate the efficiencies of WAFL read-ahead, since the blocks wouldn't be temporally located. While the read ahead would pick up the stub, the de-duping software (not being netapp-aware) would need to go back and retrieve the actual data referenced by the stub, and there goes your cache hit %. But, sometimes performance is not important. Glenn (the other one) ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:41 AM To: Darren Soothill; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp I think that all of the solutions have their place - I'm not as interested in 'compression' as I am with 'deDupe' - they are separate, and not entirely equal. The only issue I can foresee with deDupe, besides adding overhead, is chance of failure: if the data is stored in a single block, and it is lost, so are you - but that's why you have parity, so it shouldn't be any more dangerous than normal data storage (provided the software works adequately). As for overhead, having multiple individuals 'hit' the same block would cause performance issues - but I'm not so convinced: There's really no such thing as 'overwrite' in ONTAP, it's always writing to a free block - as for reading the single block that has been deDuped, even though multiple machines hitting the same block should ordinarily cause higher latencies for everyone, I would think that the simple fact that there is one block with many accesses would indicate that it would already be cached - caching it in memory should remove the read latency penalty. Stubs carry their own penalties, btw: when the stub is seen, the filer must use the fpolicy service to communicate with the hosting system to redirect and\or obtain the actual data: this is multiple layers of network communication, memory lookup, and disk access before the client gets the requested data - this (in theory) should be slower than a self contained system in almost every case. VTL is definitely a good solution for backups and we're looking into them now. But HSM products, and archiving products of all types, still have one common flaw: they move the data around and it must then be managed. While this would be the most likely best way of dealing with the massive amounts of data in anyone's environment, it would still be nice to keep it all in one place. That's just a dream, anyways... I'm not sure that there would be enough savings through deDupe to actually accomplish anything like this. Now on the other hand, if the filer were able to move data to cheaper ATA storage within the same system, and simply use a redirector in the filesystem (pointer through vvbn), that could prove useful: you'd have the same lookup of vvbn-to-pvbn in order to find the data, but the actual blocks would be elsewhere within the system. No additional layers of stubs, or redirection through some other HSM system. Sorry for the long email this early in the morning, Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Darren Soothill Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:36 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp The issue with any compression technology is the latency it adds to any workload and what happens with a large number of people doing the same thing. Would you not be better at looking at an archiving product that can archive off the older files leaving stub files behind so any application can carry on working with no interruption. Assuming that the data is stored as lots of files. Perhaps you need to look at some traditional HSM type product that integrates with a tape library except instead of using a physical tape library you use a VTL which will do the deduplication and compression for you. You then have the added advantage that the VTL can spit out copies of the virtual tapes to be taken off site for DR. This type of solution should then be platform independent. ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: 27 February 2007 03:18 To: Glenn Dekhayser; Wilbur Castro; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp I've also heard good things about Data Domain. On the other hand, does anyone have any experience with the A-SIS deDupe technology from NetApp? Sounds great, except for the 'out of band' nature of it. Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:36 PM To: Wilbur Castro; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp Wilbur: What are your performance requirements? Adding compression/deDup into this has a serious impact on I/O performance, it will pretty much totally screw any read-ahead optimization. If you still want to go ahead, look at Data domain's Gateway series. It doesn't formally support Netapp, but i'm sure you could use it. This will do exactly what you want, as long as you want NFS! Glenn (the other one) ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Wilbur Castro Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:55 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: data management through compression for Netapp Hi toasters, We have a couple of 100 TBs of heterogenous storage (some from netapp), and see that our storage grows close to 60% over year. We were looking at alternatives for managing this data growth. Compression was one of the techniques we were considering for our nearline and (possibly) primary storage. Our applications cannot change to do their own compression, so it boils down to doing this in the storage layer or through an external device. Also, we'd like to not have any performance impact and compression to happen transparently. Deduplication technology from storage vendors would help, but it is not a hetrogenous solution. I am not aware of any compression technology from netapp. Are you folks aware of any solutions? Would love to hear your experience with those or other alternative ways you deal with the storage growth problem while managing costs. Thx, Wilbur

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RE: data management through compression for Netapp
by Glenn Walker 27 Feb '07

27 Feb '07

I think that all of the solutions have their place - I'm not as interested in 'compression' as I am with 'deDupe' - they are separate, and not entirely equal. The only issue I can foresee with deDupe, besides adding overhead, is chance of failure: if the data is stored in a single block, and it is lost, so are you - but that's why you have parity, so it shouldn't be any more dangerous than normal data storage (provided the software works adequately). As for overhead, having multiple individuals 'hit' the same block would cause performance issues - but I'm not so convinced: There's really no such thing as 'overwrite' in ONTAP, it's always writing to a free block - as for reading the single block that has been deDuped, even though multiple machines hitting the same block should ordinarily cause higher latencies for everyone, I would think that the simple fact that there is one block with many accesses would indicate that it would already be cached - caching it in memory should remove the read latency penalty. Stubs carry their own penalties, btw: when the stub is seen, the filer must use the fpolicy service to communicate with the hosting system to redirect and\or obtain the actual data: this is multiple layers of network communication, memory lookup, and disk access before the client gets the requested data - this (in theory) should be slower than a self contained system in almost every case. VTL is definitely a good solution for backups and we're looking into them now. But HSM products, and archiving products of all types, still have one common flaw: they move the data around and it must then be managed. While this would be the most likely best way of dealing with the massive amounts of data in anyone's environment, it would still be nice to keep it all in one place. That's just a dream, anyways... I'm not sure that there would be enough savings through deDupe to actually accomplish anything like this. Now on the other hand, if the filer were able to move data to cheaper ATA storage within the same system, and simply use a redirector in the filesystem (pointer through vvbn), that could prove useful: you'd have the same lookup of vvbn-to-pvbn in order to find the data, but the actual blocks would be elsewhere within the system. No additional layers of stubs, or redirection through some other HSM system. Sorry for the long email this early in the morning, Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Darren Soothill Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:36 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp The issue with any compression technology is the latency it adds to any workload and what happens with a large number of people doing the same thing. Would you not be better at looking at an archiving product that can archive off the older files leaving stub files behind so any application can carry on working with no interruption. Assuming that the data is stored as lots of files. Perhaps you need to look at some traditional HSM type product that integrates with a tape library except instead of using a physical tape library you use a VTL which will do the deduplication and compression for you. You then have the added advantage that the VTL can spit out copies of the virtual tapes to be taken off site for DR. This type of solution should then be platform independent. ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Walker Sent: 27 February 2007 03:18 To: Glenn Dekhayser; Wilbur Castro; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp I've also heard good things about Data Domain. On the other hand, does anyone have any experience with the A-SIS deDupe technology from NetApp? Sounds great, except for the 'out of band' nature of it. Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:36 PM To: Wilbur Castro; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp Wilbur: What are your performance requirements? Adding compression/deDup into this has a serious impact on I/O performance, it will pretty much totally screw any read-ahead optimization. If you still want to go ahead, look at Data domain's Gateway series. It doesn't formally support Netapp, but i'm sure you could use it. This will do exactly what you want, as long as you want NFS! Glenn (the other one) ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Wilbur Castro Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:55 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: data management through compression for Netapp Hi toasters, We have a couple of 100 TBs of heterogenous storage (some from netapp), and see that our storage grows close to 60% over year. We were looking at alternatives for managing this data growth. Compression was one of the techniques we were considering for our nearline and (possibly) primary storage. Our applications cannot change to do their own compression, so it boils down to doing this in the storage layer or through an external device. Also, we'd like to not have any performance impact and compression to happen transparently. Deduplication technology from storage vendors would help, but it is not a hetrogenous solution. I am not aware of any compression technology from netapp. Are you folks aware of any solutions? Would love to hear your experience with those or other alternative ways you deal with the storage growth problem while managing costs. Thx, Wilbur

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RE: data management through compression for Netapp
by Glenn Walker 27 Feb '07

27 Feb '07

I've also heard good things about Data Domain. On the other hand, does anyone have any experience with the A-SIS deDupe technology from NetApp? Sounds great, except for the 'out of band' nature of it. Glenn ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Dekhayser Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:36 PM To: Wilbur Castro; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: data management through compression for Netapp Wilbur: What are your performance requirements? Adding compression/deDup into this has a serious impact on I/O performance, it will pretty much totally screw any read-ahead optimization. If you still want to go ahead, look at Data domain's Gateway series. It doesn't formally support Netapp, but i'm sure you could use it. This will do exactly what you want, as long as you want NFS! Glenn (the other one) ________________________________ From: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On Behalf Of Wilbur Castro Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:55 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: data management through compression for Netapp Hi toasters, We have a couple of 100 TBs of heterogenous storage (some from netapp), and see that our storage grows close to 60% over year. We were looking at alternatives for managing this data growth. Compression was one of the techniques we were considering for our nearline and (possibly) primary storage. Our applications cannot change to do their own compression, so it boils down to doing this in the storage layer or through an external device. Also, we'd like to not have any performance impact and compression to happen transparently. Deduplication technology from storage vendors would help, but it is not a hetrogenous solution. I am not aware of any compression technology from netapp. Are you folks aware of any solutions? Would love to hear your experience with those or other alternative ways you deal with the storage growth problem while managing costs. Thx, Wilbur

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data management through compression for Netapp
by Wilbur Castro 27 Feb '07

27 Feb '07

Hi toasters, We have a couple of 100 TBs of heterogenous storage (some from netapp), and see that our storage grows close to 60% over year. We were looking at alternatives for managing this data growth. Compression was one of the techniques we were considering for our nearline and (possibly) primary storage. Our applications cannot change to do their own compression, so it boils down to doing this in the storage layer or through an external device. Also, we'd like to not have any performance impact and compression to happen transparently. Deduplication technology from storage vendors would help, but it is not a hetrogenous solution. I am not aware of any compression technology from netapp. Are you folks aware of any solutions? Would love to hear your experience with those or other alternative ways you deal with the storage growth problem while managing costs. Thx, Wilbur

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Re: data management through compression for Netapp
by Wilbur Castro 27 Feb '07

27 Feb '07

I took a look at storewiz. It sure looks promising. How transparent is it though? Do the nfs and windows clients know that the storewiz appliance exists (proxy) and do clients need to be reconfigured? or do they do some packet switching type of things? How does this work with your snapshots? Frequently changing files may take up more space since they are snapshotted. Does this work well for random access types of applications? I will need to test this thing like hell; it's either a promotion for cutting storage costs, or I lose my job if we corrupt data ;-) Thanks for the pointers guys. On 2/26/07, Skottie Miller <Scott.Miller(a)dreamworks.com> wrote: > > > > Wilbur Castro wrote: > > Hi toasters, > > > > We have a couple of 100 TBs of heterogenous storage (some from netapp), > > and see that our storage grows close to 60% over year. We were looking > > at alternatives for managing this data growth. Compression was one of > > the techniques we were considering for our nearline and (possibly) > > primary storage. Our applications cannot change to do their own > > compression, so it boils down to doing this in the storage layer or > > through an external device. Also, we'd like to not have any performance > > impact and compression to happen transparently. Deduplication technology > > from storage vendors would help, but it is not a hetrogenous solution. > > > > I am not aware of any compression technology from netapp. Are you folks > > aware of any solutions? Would love to hear your experience with those or > > other alternative ways you deal with the storage growth problem while > > managing costs. > > Look at StoreWiz. > http://www.storewiz.com > > in-line, transparent boxes that go between your > filers and their switch ports. > > I'm evaluating them now, and so far, so good. > > They have a software app that emulates their hardware, > so you can get a sense of the compression that will > result on your data set. > > also look at Acopia (http://www.acopia.com), they make > an "NFS switch" that lets you do transparent tiering > and data migration w/o impact to the applications. > consider a deployment where the "hot" few TB of data > are on the fastest/costliest filers, and the rest > is on lower-cost second-tier storage. put the acopia > logicially between the filers and the apps, and you > get alot of options, and the apps don't even know. > > we have one in-place for some long-term exposure testing, > and are considering more for some future roll-outs. > > -skottie > > > > > Thx, > > Wilbur > > -- > > Scott Miller > skottie(a)anim.DreamWorks.com >

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Software Ownership Query
by Philip Boyle 22 Feb '07

22 Feb '07

Hi guys, I've just received an FAS6030 cluster. The system shipped with ONTAP 7.2. I've upgraded the system to 7.2.1.1 bfiler09> version -b 1:/x86_64/kernel/primary.krn: OS 7.2.1.1 1:/backup/x86_64/kernel/primary.krn: OS 7.2 1:/x86_64/diag/diag.krn: 4.7 1:/x86_64/firmware/excelsio/firmware.img: Firmware 1.2.0 1:/x86_64/firmware/DrWho/firmware.img: Firmware 2.0.0 1:/boot/loader: Loader 1.2.1 Do you guys have much experience of disk ownership. On our FAS940 clusters, disk ownership was hardware based. FAS6030> disk show -v DISK OWNER POOL SERIAL NUMBER ------------ ------------- ----- ------------- 0e.40 FAS6030 (118041055) Pool0 ZAKTSGAH Tue Feb 20 11:13:43 GMT [localhost: diskown.isEnabled:info]: replayed event: software ownership has been enabled for this system Despite reading the below Netapp doc, I'm no closer to making a decision as to whether to retain the disk ownership option or remove it from my system. http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/ontap/rel7211/ <http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/ontap/rel7211/html/ontap/mgmtsag/3…> html/ontap/mgmtsag/3disk6.htm#1426071 <http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/ontap/rel7211/html/ontap/mgmtsag/3…> Any feedback on the topic would be much appreciated. Thanks alot, Philip

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Quota CPU hog with Ontap 7.0
by JONES P.S. 21 Feb '07

21 Feb '07

We've just upgraded our main filers to 7.0.5 after running 588 days with no interruption on 6.5.5. However we've run into serious problems when enabling quotas. The system runs at 100% for ages and we eventually have to disable quotas altogether. On the old system it took about 1 hour and 20% CPU to initialise quotas so there's an enormous difference. The system is unuseable if we enable quotas on 7.0.5. Netapps haven't been much help; the articles they refer me too mention this problem but in all cases the bug notes claim its been fixed in 7.0.5. Anyone been here before me? We have ~20,000 accounts but most are captured with default quotas although we have around 1000 explicit entries defined in the quotas file. Thanks ... Paul Paul Jones, B.Sc, M.Sc, Ph.D. - Head of Systems Services, Information Technology Service, Durham University, South Road, Durham DH1 3LE Email: p.s.jones(a)durham.ac.uk Phone/Fax: 0191 334 2749/2701

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Re: NFSv3 + krb5 home directory problem
by Jim Davis 20 Feb '07

20 Feb '07

Brian Parent wrote: > I haven't seen any responses yet. Have you opened a ticket with NetApp? No; since the mount itself seems to succeed I think the Netapp side is doing the right thing. Why the credentials aren't being passed and why rpc.gssd isn't seeing anything is still a mystery. Posting to the Kerberos list produced no responses; posting to the Linux NFS list got a reply from one of the developers, but no fixes yet. > Please post a summary back to the list if you ever do make any progress. Big "if"... but I'll be glad to do so.

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RE: Large Oracle database question
by Miller, Michael CTR USTRANSCOM J2 20 Feb '07

20 Feb '07

I agree with your thoughts on performance but not the use of large raid groups. It would eat into the data spindle count but I think 10 disk RGs would increase the warm fuzzy feeling. I have pushed single parity RGs well past the safe point without problems but the guy is antsy about failures. I have never lost any data in the years I have been taking care of the filers. The plan right now is to use what comes with Solaris for filesystem management. VxVM was thought of for a while. Mike -----Original Message----- From: slinkymax0r [mailto:slinkywizard@integra.net] Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 4:06 PM To: tmac Cc: Miller, Michael CTR USTRANSCOM J2; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Large Oracle database question hmmm... with an adequately sized head, his work load shouldn't be a problem at all. I would actually anticipate better performance/ recoverability with large aggregates of fast spindles, and RAID-DP means very large raid groups :) Would you be using NFS or block? If block, what file system would you be using over the RAID array? Regards, Max > Has anyone explained or showed this person a write-up on WAFL and > NetApp's implementation of RAID-4 and now RAID-DP? > ...how NetApp's version does not have a "hot" parity disk as all disks > are excersized about the same? > ...how RAID-DP is superior to RAID 1+0 and in an edge case is even > better (if you loose the same disk in both plexs of a RAID 1, you have > total data loss...you can loose any two disks with RAID-DP and loose > nothing) > ...how RAID-DP has very little overhead compared to NetApp's RAID-4? > ...how NetApp's RAID-4 is faster than most hardware RAID arrays? > > > I could go on, and on, an on....(ask others that know me...plus 10 > years at netapp helped) > > -- > --tmac > > RedHat Certified Engineer > > > > On 2/16/07, Miller, Michael CTR USTRANSCOM J2 > <michael.miller.ctr(a)ustranscom.mil> wrote: >> >> >> >> (This might show up twice) >> We are getting ready to stand up a 30+TB GIS app and I was wondering if >> anyone on the list has done something like this on a filer. >> >> The guy who will be running this doesn't think a filer would give him >> the >> performance required (not specified) and is also concerned that the >> parity >> drives will get beat to hard. >> >> He has been told by others that the only way to make this work as needed >> is >> to use RAID 1+0. This started out being required for all of the data but >> has >> been relaxed to just the indexes and current point of interest data. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> >> Mike Miller >> General Dynamics Information Technology >> Michael.Miller.ctr(a)ustranscom.mil >> Michael.Miller(a)gdit.com >> Phone: 618-229-1185 >> >

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F760 memory spec
by Ronan Mullally 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

For sheer geek purposes, I've got an old F760, long out of warranty, in my garage. One of the DIMMs has developed a fault and I'd like to replace it. Does anybody know what the memory spec is? The DIMM is branded Samsung KM48S16030BT-GL. From what I can gather it's 168 pin 256MB SDRAM, but I don't know what speed (PC-100? PC-133?), and given that it's got 9 chips on it, it's ECC. Is the filer fussy about the memory it will accept? Do I have to replace this with identical memory, or will a pair of similar DIMMS do? -Ronan

1 0

DST files
by admin＠berkcom.net 17 Feb '07

17 Feb '07

5 5

Large Oracle database question
by Miller, Michael CTR USTRANSCOM J2 16 Feb '07

16 Feb '07

(This might show up twice) We are getting ready to stand up a 30+TB GIS app and I was wondering if anyone on the list has done something like this on a filer. The guy who will be running this doesn't think a filer would give him the performance required (not specified) and is also concerned that the parity drives will get beat to hard. He has been told by others that the only way to make this work as needed is to use RAID 1+0. This started out being required for all of the data but has been relaxed to just the indexes and current point of interest data. Any thoughts? Mike Miller General Dynamics Information Technology Michael.Miller.ctr(a)ustranscom.mil Michael.Miller(a)gdit.com Phone: 618-229-1185

4 3

BayLISA meeting tonight - Feb 15 7-10pm NetApp HQ Sunnyvale
by Jennifer Davis 16 Feb '07

16 Feb '07

I know this is late notice, but I forgot that there might be people interested on this forum in this talk. If you are interested, make sure to RSVP: http://www.eventbrite.com/event/46941403 We will be recording the meeting, so if you can't make it in person you can always watch the video recording after the fact. The February General meeting will be held at NetApp HQ. Location: Network Appliance HQ Building 1, Founders' Theater 495 E Java Dr Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Time: 7:00-10:00pm Architecting a Resilient Storage System Steve Strange, NetApp Engineering The job of a storage engineer is to find ways to turn a collection of unreliable disks into a resilient system. In this presentation, NetApp engineer Steve Strange shares his perspective on some of the core technologies that help make NetApp systems reliable and easy to manage. In particular, Steve will discuss the NetApp RAID-DP implementation.which carries no significant performance penalty.versus traditional implementations of RAID-6, as well as other alternative approaches to storage problems. Steve Strange has been a member of the NetApp engineering team for nine years and has worked on numerous resiliency projects including the launch of NetApp's first clustered failover product, the rearchitecture of the RAID subsystem, and the development of SyncMirror. Case Study: Decreasing Data Center Power Utilization Devinder Singh, NetApp IT Architect In a recent upgrade of its corporate datacenter, NetApp IT reduced the physical footprint of its storage by 40% and cut power consumption by up to 75% while doubling performance. All told, the project touched 165 different applications (with as many as 8 environments each), 343 servers, and just under 5000 mounts. In this presentation, IT Architect Devinder Singh describes the reasons for the upgrade, the migration methodology, and the results.

2 1

High disk reads but low network out
by Paul Letta 15 Feb '07

15 Feb '07

I have been having some performance issues on my F880 the past couple of days. Specifically, an NDMP backup that normally takes 2 hours to complete was stuck in the mapping phase for 12 hours before I killed it. What I am seeing is a high disk read, but without a corresponding network out. Here is a sysstat: > CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache > in out read write read write age > 62% 1456 6 0 794 16954 46326 0 0 0 4s > 56% 1418 0 0 597 13689 36506 0 0 0 5s > 64% 1737 3 0 867 17637 43572 0 0 0 5s > 53% 1135 18 0 572 14823 42905 1155 0 0 4s > 73% 2067 20 0 1282 37835 69880 6347 0 0 4s > 69% 2031 24 0 1267 38868 67632 0 0 0 4s > 74% 1921 3 0 1027 26644 50881 7778 0 0 5s > 59% 1459 0 0 774 18843 41313 0 0 0 6s > 60% 1212 2 0 665 16391 38766 0 0 0 7s > 54% 1028 19 0 509 11873 33960 0 0 0 7s > 61% 844 302 0 571 13765 39032 0 0 0 7s > 72% 1164 598 0 1870 16750 39968 0 0 0 5s > 71% 948 640 0 8961 9788 29552 0 0 0 5s > 79% 1297 603 0 24157 5831 26034 0 0 0 4s > 87% 2130 465 0 23581 9794 31269 0 0 0 2s I don't know why the disks are reading so much without it going out the network. This is an F880 running OnTap 7.1. It is somewhat full -- about 92% (1.2TB out of 1.3TB). There isn't any stuck ndmp sessions: > ndmpd status ndmpd ON. No ndmpd sessions active. I haven't really looked at what clients may be doing what due to the low network out numbers- but I am going there next. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to look for ? Thanks, Paul

4 4

weird behaviour on the nfs share plus kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13
by Linux Admin 15 Feb '07

15 Feb '07

I have user complaining that application fails to write to NFS share The output in syslog Feb 14 17:23:33 host1 kernel: nsm_mon_unmon: rpc failed, status=-13 Feb 14 17:23:33 host1 kernel: lockd: cannot monitor netapp1 Feb 14 17:23:33 host1 kernel: lockd: failed to monitor netapp1 rpcinfo -p netapp1 shows The NSM daemon (statd), RPC program 100024,is not running on the server. 100024 1 tcp 4047 status 100024 1 udp 4047 status The directory has sticky bit set on it or even without they get one 0 size file and nothing else. any pointers on troubleshooting please

2 1

RE: High disk reads but low network out
by Glenn Marsh 14 Feb '07

14 Feb '07

The problem may not be due to a full nisk and/or the lack of contiguous space. It may be due to the type of data on the filer and that your filer may not have enough cache memory. We have cache age issues but we have been having increasing problems with large files (larger than 1GB and some well over 10GB) and the creation of directories with large number of entries (directories with thousands of sub-directories and files). Both of these can cause the cache age to get very low. The real problem occured for us when we added a lot of high end Linux boxes with Gigabit Ethernet connections that really pound on our filers. The only fix is to upgrade to a filer with more cache memory. See Bug ID 3986, there is no fix and if you contact NetApp they will suggest the upgrade. Glenn (yet another one) -----Original Message-----

1 0

ELNK WTF? - Fwd: POST NOT ALLOWED - NETAPP
by Blake Golliher 14 Feb '07

14 Feb '07

Sigh, Earthlink. Please make with the stopping. For the love of God, make it stop! -Blake ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Netapp List Owner <netapp-owner(a)lists.corp.earthlink.net> Date: Feb 14, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: POST NOT ALLOWED - NETAPP To: netapp-owner(a)lists.corp.earthlink.net, Blake Golliher <thelastman(a)gmail.com> The message attached could not be sent to "NETAPP" mailing list because of the following error message: -> Domain gmail.com is not allowed to post A copy of this message is being sent to the list owner(s). Thank you, Mordomo Did your number of files dramatically increase? Is there a reconstruction going on? A wafl scan, or an upgrade? Ok that last one might be silly, but you never know.. :) Can you capture a perfstat or at least a few 30 second samples of statit? Perfstat is usually too much, but here's a quick shell script I run to quickly grab what I need. #!/bin/sh # if [ -z $1 ]; then echo " " echo "I need a filer target" echo "An example syntax" echo " get-stats.sh filer01.msg.dcn" echo " " exit 0 fi FILER=$1 # while true do DATAFILE="$FILER`date | awk '{print "_data_" $2 $3 }'`" echo "" >> $DATAFILE date >> $DATAFILE echo "------------------------------" >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; statit -b' 2>/dev/null echo "Starting statit sample" >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; nfsstat -z' 2>/dev/null echo "Zeroing nfsstat" >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; nfs_hist -z' 2>/dev/null echo "Zeroing nfs_hist" >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; wafl_susp -z' 2>/dev/null echo "Zeroing wafl_susp" >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'sysstat -xs -c 30 1' >> $DATAFILE # And we wait... rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; statit -en' >> $DATAFILE 2>/dev/null rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; nfsstat -d' >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; nfs_hist' >> $DATAFILE rsh $FILER 'priv set -q diag; wafl_susp -w' >> $DATAFILE echo " ** " >> $DATAFILE done if you don't allow rsh, you can enable passphrase ssh and replace rsh with ssh (I think it's built into 7 for free now..) or just run the commands above in sequence and save them to a text. A few samples of each for about 30 seconds should do it, but only during the problem, not helpful if it's not happening at the moment. I usually run the script for about 5 to 10 minutes, then ctrl+c out of it. Right now I look at it a lot by hand. -Blake On 2/14/07, Paul Letta <letta(a)jlab.org> wrote: > I have been having some performance issues on my F880 the past couple of > days. Specifically, an NDMP backup that normally takes 2 hours to > complete was stuck in the mapping phase for 12 hours before I killed it. > > What I am seeing is a high disk read, but without a corresponding > network out. Here is a sysstat: > > > CPU NFS CIFS HTTP Net kB/s Disk kB/s Tape kB/s Cache > > in out read write read write age > > 62% 1456 6 0 794 16954 46326 0 0 0 4s > > 56% 1418 0 0 597 13689 36506 0 0 0 5s > > 64% 1737 3 0 867 17637 43572 0 0 0 5s > > 53% 1135 18 0 572 14823 42905 1155 0 0 4s > > 73% 2067 20 0 1282 37835 69880 6347 0 0 4s > > 69% 2031 24 0 1267 38868 67632 0 0 0 4s > > 74% 1921 3 0 1027 26644 50881 7778 0 0 5s > > 59% 1459 0 0 774 18843 41313 0 0 0 6s > > 60% 1212 2 0 665 16391 38766 0 0 0 7s > > 54% 1028 19 0 509 11873 33960 0 0 0 7s > > 61% 844 302 0 571 13765 39032 0 0 0 7s > > 72% 1164 598 0 1870 16750 39968 0 0 0 5s > > 71% 948 640 0 8961 9788 29552 0 0 0 5s > > 79% 1297 603 0 24157 5831 26034 0 0 0 4s > > 87% 2130 465 0 23581 9794 31269 0 0 0 2s > > I don't know why the disks are reading so much without it going out the > network. > > This is an F880 running OnTap 7.1. It is somewhat full -- about 92% > (1.2TB out of 1.3TB). > > There isn't any stuck ndmp sessions: > > ndmpd status > ndmpd ON. > No ndmpd sessions active. > > I haven't really looked at what clients may be doing what due to the low > network out numbers- but I am going there next. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on what to look for ? > > Thanks, > > Paul >

1 0

RE: High disk reads but low network out
by Glenn Dekhayser 14 Feb '07

14 Feb '07

Look at your cache age. It's very low, meaning that you are not serving data out of memory, only directly from disk. As the cache age does down, see that your network out numbers go down as well. When your filer gets full, it isn't able to find contiguous space to write data to (thus write 'anywhere'), so it starts breaking things up and you lose temporal locality, which eliminates the benefits of Netapp's read-ahead caching mechanism, thus low cache ages and poor performance. That's probably what's happening. You should think about a wafl_scan reallocate when the system utiliziation goes down, or getting a bunch of data off the box. Glenn (the other one) ************************************************************************ Glenn Marsh Lattice Semiconductor Corporation Senior Unix Systems Administrator 5555 NE Moore Court CAD Engineering Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 glenn.marsh(a)latticesemi.com 503-268-8000 503-268-8136 phone - 503-268-8459 fax ************************************************************************

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