toasters March 2003

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

92 participants
102 discussions

mixing BCS and ZCS in the same volume
by steve＠hq.newdream.net 14 Mar '03

14 Mar '03

Is it bad to mix BCS and ZCS drives in the same volume? A person from a reputable Network Appliance supply company told me that this will probably most definitely lead to data corruption. Please read below, I know its a lot of information but it should be useful for someone to give me a straight answer. before we just had one FC9 shelf of seven 36GB ZCS disks on our F740 filer slot 8: Fibre Channel Host Adapter 8 (Qlogic 2100 rev. 3, 32-bit, L-port, <UP>) 0: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 1: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 2: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 3: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 4: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 5: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 6: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect now we have another FC9 shelf of 36GB BCS disks but the sizes don't match slot 8: Fibre Channel Host Adapter 8 (Qlogic 2100 rev. 3, 32-bit, L-port, <UP>) 0: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 1: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 2: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 3: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 4: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 5: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 6: SEAGATE ST136403FC NA11 34.5GB 512B/sect 8: NETAPP X231_ST336704FC NA32 34.0GB 520B/sect 9: NETAPP X231_ST336704FC NA32 34.0GB 520B/sect 10: NETAPP X231_ST336704FC NA32 34.0GB 520B/sect 11: NETAPP X231_ST336704FC NA32 34.0GB 520B/sect 12: NETAPP X231_ST336704FC NA32 34.0GB 520B/sect 13: NETAPP X231_ST336704FC NA32 34.0GB 520B/sect Before we added the second shelf I had it setup very nicely with a boot volume of 2 disks, data volume of 4 disks (w/one spare) and raid group size=7. Volume boot (online, normal) (zoned checksums) Plex /boot/plex0 (online, normal, active) RAID group /boot/plex0/rg0 (normal) RAID Disk Device HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ------------ --------------- ---- -------------- -------------- parity 8.0 8 0 0 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.1 8 0 1 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 Volume saggy (online, normal) (zoned checksums) Plex /saggy/plex0 (online, normal, active) RAID group /saggy/plex0/rg0 (normal) RAID Disk Device HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ------------ --------------- ---- -------------- -------------- parity 8.2 8 0 2 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.3 8 0 3 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.4 8 0 4 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.5 8 0 5 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 Then a person with very little experience (my boss) added another shelf to the data volume but without first checking the types of disks he was adding, etc. He added NETAPP X231 (BCS) disks to this ZCS voume. These are block checksum disks of a different physical specs. Now it looks like this. Volume saggy (online, normal) (zoned checksums) Plex /saggy/plex0 (online, normal, active) RAID group /saggy/plex0/rg0 (normal) RAID Disk Device HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ------------ --------------- ---- -------------- -------------- parity 8.2 8 0 2 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.3 8 0 3 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.4 8 0 4 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.5 8 0 5 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.6 8 0 6 FC:A 34500/70656000 34732/71132960 data 8.8 8 1 0 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 data 8.9 8 1 1 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 RAID group /saggy/plex0/rg1 (normal) RAID Disk Device HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ------------ --------------- ---- -------------- -------------- parity 8.10 8 1 2 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 data 8.11 8 1 3 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 data 8.12 8 1 4 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 data 8.13 8 1 5 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 Spare disks RAID Disk Device HA SHELF BAY CHAN Used (MB/blks) Phys (MB/blks) --------- ------------ --------------- ---- -------------- -------------- Spare disks for block or zoned checksum volumes spare 8.14 8 1 6 FC:A 34000/69632000 34190/70022840 The spare is not even good enough if one of the ZCS drives fail! Please let me how bad this is. Thanks! Steve

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RE: Moving files but not .snapshots?
by Jeffrey.Burton＠abbott.com 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

I don't know if the network card is in the path of an internal copy, but I'm fairly certain it does not. I copied 400M internally on my F880C in just under 2 minutes. I'm sure it depends heavily on the amount of fragmentation on the source's file system (my wafl scan measure_layout was 1.13, which is almost perfect). For some reason I can't find the ndmp throttle (to limit the CPU usage of ndmpcopy), I'm guessing that option does not exist, too bad. Below copied from NOW at: http://now.netapp.com/Knowledgebase/solutionarea.asp?id=ntapcs2471&resource= Thanks, Jeff ======================================== Beginning with Data ONTAP 6.2, ndmpcopy is built into the filer and does not require a seperate host to migrate data. See your respective Data ONTAP Data Protection Guide for more details: http://now.netapp.com/NOW/knowledge/docs/ontap/ontap_index.shtml Complete the following steps: 1. Obtain a current version of ndmpcopy from http://www.ndmp.org. 2. Install ndmpcopy on a host that has network access to the source and destination filers. 3. On both filers, enable NDMPD: a. Enter ndmpd on b. To confirm NDMP is running, enter ndmpd status. 4. Establish a "trust" relationship between the client and filer. a. Enter the hostname or interface name , i.e. , of the client and the destination filer in the source filer's /etc/hosts.equiv file. See the hosts.equiv manual page for additional options. 5. Execute the ndmpcopy on the client. The general syntax is ndmpcopy source destination Refer to ndmpcopy documentation for additional options. For other ways to migrate data, see the following: http://www.netapp.com/tech_library/3018.html ======================================== Art Hebert <art(a)arzoon.com> 03/13/2003 04:55 PM To: "'Jeffrey.Burton(a)abbott.com'" <Jeffrey.Burton(a)abbott.com>, Jim Davis <jdavis(a)cs.arizona.edu> cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: Moving files but not .snapshots? I take it when copying files using ndmpcopy on a single source and destination filer the data never uses the network. This seems like it should be a lot faster, anybody have an idea how much faster? Also, which release was the first with ndmpcopy on board? Is there any other ways to copy just on the filer itself beside ndmpcopy? thanks art -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey.Burton(a)abbott.com [mailto:Jeffrey.Burton@abbott.com] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:19 PM To: Jim Davis Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Moving files but not .snapshots? You can use ndmpcopy from the filerhead CLI, granted you have a new enough DOT version. This creates a snapshot then copy's all the data and ACL's from source to target. First make sure that the ndmp option is turned on: ndmpd.enable on Then below will work: ndmpcopy /vol/sourcevol /vol/destvol You can copy at any level, not just the vol level. If the source and dest's vols are on a seperate filer just preceed the dir with "filename:" so "ndmpcopy sourcefiler:/vol/sourcevol destfiler:/vol/destvol". After the copy you can remove the temp file created at the destination end which is used for incremental updates (I forgot the name but it will be a huge file with an obviously generated name). Man page and NOW has good ndmp info. Thanks, Jeff Jim Davis <jdavis(a)cs.arizona.edu> Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com 03/13/2003 01:47 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com cc: Subject: Moving files but not .snapshots? I want to move two big directories from an old volume to a new volume, but just the files -- not the snapshot subdirectories. So far I've tried find . -type d -name '.snapshot' -prune -o -print | cpio -pdm /newvol from the adminhost, which works but isn't blazingly fast. Are there any other ways people can suggest?

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RE: Moving files but not .snapshots?
by Art Hebert 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

I take it when copying files using ndmpcopy on a single source and destination filer the data never uses the network. This seems like it should be a lot faster, anybody have an idea how much faster? Also, which release was the first with ndmpcopy on board? Is there any other ways to copy just on the filer itself beside ndmpcopy? thanks art -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey.Burton(a)abbott.com [mailto:Jeffrey.Burton@abbott.com] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:19 PM To: Jim Davis Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Moving files but not .snapshots? You can use ndmpcopy from the filerhead CLI, granted you have a new enough DOT version. This creates a snapshot then copy's all the data and ACL's from source to target. First make sure that the ndmp option is turned on: ndmpd.enable on Then below will work: ndmpcopy /vol/sourcevol /vol/destvol You can copy at any level, not just the vol level. If the source and dest's vols are on a seperate filer just preceed the dir with "filename:" so "ndmpcopy sourcefiler:/vol/sourcevol destfiler:/vol/destvol". After the copy you can remove the temp file created at the destination end which is used for incremental updates (I forgot the name but it will be a huge file with an obviously generated name). Man page and NOW has good ndmp info. Thanks, Jeff Jim Davis <jdavis(a)cs.arizona.edu> Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com 03/13/2003 01:47 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com cc: Subject: Moving files but not .snapshots? I want to move two big directories from an old volume to a new volume, but just the files -- not the snapshot subdirectories. So far I've tried find . -type d -name '.snapshot' -prune -o -print | cpio -pdm /newvol from the adminhost, which works but isn't blazingly fast. Are there any other ways people can suggest?

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RE: Moving files but not .snapshots?
by Toal, Dave 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

my mistake, the /oldvol mounts should be different dirs under root. cd /oldvol1/dir1; find . ... | cpio -dmp /newvol1/dir1 & cd /oldvol2/dir2; find . ... | cpio -dmp /newvol2/dir2 & The /old/1, /old/2 would also work; you'd be reading from the same source mount though, unless the individual dirs were mounted separately. mount filer:/vol/old/1 /old/1 mount filer:/vol/old/2 /old/2 -----Original Message----- From: Toal, Dave To: 'Jim Davis '; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com ' Sent: 3/13/03 3:45 PM Subject: RE: Moving files but not .snapshots? Jim, If there are subdirectories in what you're copying, one way to speed things up is mounting the same pair of vols (old, new) multiple times, and running the find | cpio in each subdir. Use more than one cp host if you saturate i/o or cpu on the first one. cd /oldvol/dir1; find . ... | cpio -dmp /newvol1/dir1 & cd /oldvol/dir2; find . ... | cpio -dmp /newvol2/dir2 & > What I am seeking is a bit like folklore. How about a spam filter that bounces any posts that don't contain keywords? "filer, vol, ndmp, spam" ? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Davis To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: 3/13/03 2:47 PM Subject: Moving files but not .snapshots? I want to move two big directories from an old volume to a new volume, but just the files -- not the snapshot subdirectories. So far I've tried find . -type d -name '.snapshot' -prune -o -print | cpio -pdm /newvol from the adminhost, which works but isn't blazingly fast. Are there any other ways people can suggest?

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RE: Moving files but not .snapshots?
by Toal, Dave 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

Jim, If there are subdirectories in what you're copying, one way to speed things up is mounting the same pair of vols (old, new) multiple times, and running the find | cpio in each subdir. Use more than one cp host if you saturate i/o or cpu on the first one. cd /oldvol/dir1; find . ... | cpio -dmp /newvol1/dir1 & cd /oldvol/dir2; find . ... | cpio -dmp /newvol2/dir2 & > What I am seeking is a bit like folklore. How about a spam filter that bounces any posts that don't contain keywords? "filer, vol, ndmp, spam" ? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Davis To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Sent: 3/13/03 2:47 PM Subject: Moving files but not .snapshots? I want to move two big directories from an old volume to a new volume, but just the files -- not the snapshot subdirectories. So far I've tried find . -type d -name '.snapshot' -prune -o -print | cpio -pdm /newvol from the adminhost, which works but isn't blazingly fast. Are there any other ways people can suggest?

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Re: Moving files but not .snapshots?
by Jeffrey.Burton＠abbott.com 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

You can use ndmpcopy from the filerhead CLI, granted you have a new enough DOT version. This creates a snapshot then copy's all the data and ACL's from source to target. First make sure that the ndmp option is turned on: ndmpd.enable on Then below will work: ndmpcopy /vol/sourcevol /vol/destvol You can copy at any level, not just the vol level. If the source and dest's vols are on a seperate filer just preceed the dir with "filename:" so "ndmpcopy sourcefiler:/vol/sourcevol destfiler:/vol/destvol". After the copy you can remove the temp file created at the destination end which is used for incremental updates (I forgot the name but it will be a huge file with an obviously generated name). Man page and NOW has good ndmp info. Thanks, Jeff Jim Davis <jdavis(a)cs.arizona.edu> Sent by: owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com 03/13/2003 01:47 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com cc: Subject: Moving files but not .snapshots? I want to move two big directories from an old volume to a new volume, but just the files -- not the snapshot subdirectories. So far I've tried find . -type d -name '.snapshot' -prune -o -print | cpio -pdm /newvol from the adminhost, which works but isn't blazingly fast. Are there any other ways people can suggest?

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RE: antivirus software
by Wurster, Richard M DSTI 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

We have had very good results using Symantec's CarrierScan product, which is designed specifically for the filer. Rick Wurster SBCCOM / DSTI 410-436-3824 DSN 584-3824 <mailto:rick.wurster@sbccom.apgea.army.mil> -----Original Message----- From: David Papas [mailto:david.papas@newisys.com] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:24 PM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: antivirus software Just curious which antivirus software, if any, folks are using on their filers out there. We're considering either Symantec or Trend's for an F820 and was wondering what people's experience with scanning filers has been like. Thanks all, David Papas

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Writer/Researcher Requests your Help
by Steve Lawler 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

Dear Colleague, Please excuse the impersonal quality of this e-mail. I am writing to ask your help for an article I am writing about Life Practices. I am looking for examples of those simple things that we all do that are essential to expressing and maintaining our values as we face life's ups and downs - our Life Practices. I am especially interested in practices developed by those who have been in, lived through or dealt with the aftermath of war. What I am seeking is a bit like folklore. Something with a story and an easy to remember slogan or catchphrase. I am asking you to contribute out of your own personal experience not as an official representative of an organization. I am especially interested in those practices, which help you deal with others - in your family, at work, in your immediate community, in the larger global community, etc. This is the only e-mail you will receive from me unless you choose to participate in this project. So far I have gathered over 150 practices from people all over the world: These are examples of contributions I have received so far that may help clarify what I am looking for: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- " 'Water what you want to grow' is my motto. Whenever I see something being done well I acknowledge it as soon as possible and in some tangible way. The least that I do is to complement the person doing the thing well. What I try to do more often is write a note to the person or give them a small gift." "My life changed when I went from seeing mistakes as awful to seeing them as the first chapter of a textbook on a new subject. I even had this made into a sign that hangs on the wall in my office. 'Mistakes are just chapter one in a textbook on a new subject' Now I get bothered if I don't have some sort of royal screw-up every few days. It's like I am not trying." "I learned from my grandfather to 'use the best materials you can afford.' This has provided a model for my life's work. Even in my late 70's I am still actively building things and more to the point of your book, I am still building my life out of "the best materials I can afford." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- These practices come from people from many places and with a wide variety of backgrounds. I am grateful for that. I want to show the broadest possible view of Life Practices from around the globe. The article will feature some of the material I gather with some commentary. I will be grateful if you would send me a practice that you use as a foundation in your life. Please include some brief biographical information as well. Also, if you would like to share in what I am learning, please let me know as well. And please let me know if you have any additional questions. Thank you for your consideration. Steve Lawler swl(a)lawler.org About me: Steve Lawler an ethics consultant and writer based in St Louis, Missouri USA. He regularly gives workshops on issues of ethics, values and culture. He has been quoted in a number of related pieces in publications including the Wall Street Journal, The Christian Science Monitor and Cape Talk Radio - Cape Town. Lawler has worked with companies in the US and Europe - including Monsanto, Pulitzer Publishing, and the Danforth Foundation. He has been a lecturer at Washington University and at Webster University. He has written for numerous publications. Steve Lawler 47 Aberdeen Place, St. Louis, MO 63105 USA Voice: +1 (314) 753 7911 Fax: +1 (314) 727 9792 E-mail: swl(a)lawler.org Web Site: www.lawler.org

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RE: antivirus software
by Nail, Larry 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

David, I did an analysis about 18 months ago & Trend came out on top for performance and managebility. Symantec CS was 2nd followed by McAfee. All 3 work fine & each have their pluses & minues. In the long run, it depends on what pricing you can pull out of the 3 of them and what you want for manageiblity. Carrier Scan wasn't really manageable, and McAfee requires EPO to centralize the stuff. Trend comes with their management utility in the form of an Information Server. I also noticed on busy systems (this was a F760 cluster running 99.9% CIFS) that CS & McAfee performance wasn't as good a Trend... Larry -----Original Message----- From: David Papas [mailto:david.papas@newisys.com] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:24 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: antivirus software Just curious which antivirus software, if any, folks are using on their filers out there. We're considering either Symantec or Trend's for an F820 and was wondering what people's experience with scanning filers has been like. Thanks all, David Papas

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Re: antivirus software
by John Duino 13 Mar '03

13 Mar '03

David Papas <david.papas(a)newisys.com> said: > Just curious which antivirus software, if any, folks are using on their > filers out there. We're considering either Symantec or Trend's for an > F820 and was wondering what people's experience with scanning filers has > been like. > > > Thanks all, > David Papas > I've been using and installing RAV antivirus (ravantivirus.com or from raeinternet.com) in various installations with great success. -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | John Duino | | AeroHead Designs | | UNIX, Network & WWW Consulting | | (310) 993-9188 | | jduino(a)AeroHead.com | | http://www.AeroHead.com | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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toasters March 2003