toasters December 2002

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

80 participants
87 discussions

Re: file folding impact --Correction!!!
by Timothy Cook 13 Dec '02

13 Dec '02

I misspoke. small files are files < 64 bytes, (NOT kb!) Oops! As I understand it, with windoze systems, when you modify a file, you completely rewrite it as a new file. Those blocks that belonged to the "old" file are maintained in the snapshot inode listing. This is not an issue with Unix (As I understand it). So with file folding, the contents of the active file system are compared against the most recent snapshot (only) to determine if blocks are duplicates and can be freed. Also, small files (less than 64K, which really are written to the inode) NT streams and directories are not folded. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This electronic mail transmission contains information from Joy Mining Machinery which is confidential, and is intended only for the use of the proper addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately at the return address on this transmission, or by telephone at (724) 779-4500, and delete this message and any attachments from your system. Unauthorized use, copying, disclosing, distributing, or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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RE: file folding impact
by Chuck Tomasi 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

My question about file folding (after reading about it here and on NOW)... Why would a block end up in a snapshot if it is the same as the previous snapshot? Isn't the point of snapshots only to save the 'old version' of blocks that have been changed? OK, second question, does it only check the most recent snapshot or does it drill through all existing snaps? Now that I think more on the subject, third question... what happens to the snapshot "n" that references blocks in snap "n+1" when "n+1" rolls off the end and expires? --Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Mitko Blazeski [mailto:Mitko.Blazeski@proact.se] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:10 AM To: 'Kumar, Rahul'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: file folding impact File folding describes the process of checking the data in the most recent snapshot, and, if it is identical to the snapshot currently being created, just referencing the previous snapshot instead of taking up disk space writing the same data in the new snapshot. Disk space is saved by sharing unchanged file blocks between the active version of the file and the version of the file in the latest snapshot, if any. /Mitko -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Rahul [mailto:rahul.kumar@eds.com] Sent: den 12 december 2002 05:19 To: stefan.holzwarth(a)adac.de; mats.oberg(a)tietoenator.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: file folding impact BTW what does this option do Rahul -----Original Message----- From: stefan.holzwarth(a)adac.de [mailto:stefan.holzwarth@adac.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:08 PM To: mats.oberg(a)tietoenator.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: AW: file folding impact Since 2 months we use filefolding on all volumes. (F760,2TB,3000 User, only cifs) No remarkable impact in cpu usage. No trouble. Snapshotsize decreasing a little. Regards Stefan Holzwarth -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Öberg Mats [mailto:mats.oberg@tietoenator.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Dezember 2002 14:20 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: file folding impact Hi, I'm thinking about enabling file folding on one of our filers. Have anybody tried this? If so, what kind of performance decrease/size gain can be expected from enabling it? ---- Mats

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RE: NFS Lock Performance
by Edward Hibbert 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

No, I have multiple client systems, so I do need the locks to go to the NetApp. Edward. -----Original Message----- From: Duncan Greenwood [mailto:duncan.greenwood@btinternet.com] Sent: 12 December 2002 22:56 To: Edward Hibbert; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: NFS Lock Performance You don't say whether you have multiple client systems mounting the share, or just a single client with multiple processes contending for locks. In the latter situation and depending on your client o/s, you may be able to dispense with the lock manager altogether and use local kernel locks instead, using the "llock" option to the NFS mount command. rgds, D # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Hibbert" <EH(a)dataconnection.com> To: <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: NFS Lock Performance > I'm hitting a filer very hard with NFS lock/unlock calls. Although the > ops/second is still comfortably below what I've seen it do before (with more > read/write ops), I'm seeing it occasionally take many seconds to return from > a non-blocking lock attempt, or from an unlock call. > > I theorise based purely on ignorance that I might be soaking the lock > manager. Is there any tuning I can do (e.g. add more threads)? > > Regards, > > Edward Hibbert. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 13/11/2002

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NFS Lock Performance
by Edward Hibbert 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

I'm hitting a filer very hard with NFS lock/unlock calls. Although the ops/second is still comfortably below what I've seen it do before (with more read/write ops), I'm seeing it occasionally take many seconds to return from a non-blocking lock attempt, or from an unlock call. I theorise based purely on ignorance that I might be soaking the lock manager. Is there any tuning I can do (e.g. add more threads)? Regards, Edward Hibbert.

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UPS
by Frank Bonnet 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

Hi I've checked the ups command but unfortunately our UPS devices support only monitoring thru a RS232 serial line. Is there a way to configure "ups" to watch the second serial port of the F87 to detect a power failure ? Thanks a lot. -- Frank Bonnet

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RE: file folding impact
by Mitko Blazeski 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

File folding describes the process of checking the data in the most recent snapshot, and, if it is identical to the snapshot currently being created, just referencing the previous snapshot instead of taking up disk space writing the same data in the new snapshot. Disk space is saved by sharing unchanged file blocks between the active version of the file and the version of the file in the latest snapshot, if any. /Mitko -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Rahul [mailto:rahul.kumar@eds.com] Sent: den 12 december 2002 05:19 To: stefan.holzwarth(a)adac.de; mats.oberg(a)tietoenator.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: RE: file folding impact BTW what does this option do Rahul -----Original Message----- From: stefan.holzwarth(a)adac.de [mailto:stefan.holzwarth@adac.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:08 PM To: mats.oberg(a)tietoenator.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: AW: file folding impact Since 2 months we use filefolding on all volumes. (F760,2TB,3000 User, only cifs) No remarkable impact in cpu usage. No trouble. Snapshotsize decreasing a little. Regards Stefan Holzwarth -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Öberg Mats [mailto:mats.oberg@tietoenator.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Dezember 2002 14:20 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: file folding impact Hi, I'm thinking about enabling file folding on one of our filers. Have anybody tried this? If so, what kind of performance decrease/size gain can be expected from enabling it? ---- Mats

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RE: file folding impact
by Kumar, Rahul 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

BTW what does this option do Rahul -----Original Message----- From: stefan.holzwarth(a)adac.de [mailto:stefan.holzwarth@adac.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 7:08 PM To: mats.oberg(a)tietoenator.com; toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: AW: file folding impact Since 2 months we use filefolding on all volumes. (F760,2TB,3000 User, only cifs) No remarkable impact in cpu usage. No trouble. Snapshotsize decreasing a little. Regards Stefan Holzwarth -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Öberg Mats [mailto:mats.oberg@tietoenator.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Dezember 2002 14:20 An: toasters(a)mathworks.com Betreff: file folding impact Hi, I'm thinking about enabling file folding on one of our filers. Have anybody tried this? If so, what kind of performance decrease/size gain can be expected from enabling it? ---- Mats

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Follow up to Netware to NetApp/CIFS migration question I posted
by Hight, Steve - Perot 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

I posted a question to find out any information on migrating Netware file permissions to CIFS. I did not get any in-depth feedback, so I want to share what I have learned, and see if anyone has done this. Basically I have a large Netware 4.x environment, as well as a NT4 domain. All clients (95/NT/2k) authenticate on both NDS and NT4 domain when logging on. Due to time and budget restraints, I need to migrate data with security intact, from Netware to NT/Filer. In a perfect world this would be a great time to review security and start from the ground up, but this is not possible on this project. Also, scripting the security migration (file permissions) is beyond what I would deem reasonable for a shell script. My first thought was to dump the Novell permissions to a text file and use cacls or the like to reset them. Novell permissions are just too different. It would take too long (for me) to write and test, and there is a proven solution out there. After doing some research it seems the best tool for the job is FastLane NDS Migrator (now owned by Quest software). The limitation is that it only goes from NDS to Active Directory. Perfect if you have AD, but we don't. The answer given to me by Quest that I will be testing and letting the group know about is migrating straight from NDS to the filer, but with a AD "proxy domain". So I build an AD server, install NDS Migrator and SQL server, and then import my users/groups from my existing domain. Once I have an AD Domain with my users and groups, I use FastLane NDS Migrator to move data and migrate security from NDS to AD, with the data being put on the filer. NDS OUs become AD Global Groups. Data transfer speed is limited due to the fact that all data will go from the Netware server, through the AD server, then to the filer. This is offset by the ability of NDS Migrator to migrate data while the users are accessing the data, the SQL server being used by NDS Migrator to track changes. Obviously there will be downtime when the actual cutover occurs. Now that the data is on the filer with permissions migrated from NDS to CIFS/AD, we are set except for the fact that although user and group names are correct, the domain name and SID is wrong. There is functionality within FastLane to re-ACL everything to the correct NT4 Domain SID that we actually need. If anyone has done this, or sees any flaws in this plan, I would appreciate feedback. Additional info can be found at: http://www.quest.com/fastlane/nds_migrator/index.asp <http://www.quest.com/fastlane/nds_migrator/index.asp> Thank you, Steve Hight perotsystems ...Servicing Catholic Healthcare West

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Filer qtree configuration...
by Robert Watson 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

Hello All, What a great list - I found the archives very helpful! I am setting up a Filer, an F760 with ONTAP 6.3 and both NFS and CIFS licences. Based on what I have read I have configured our only shelf as a single large volume (with one disk left unused or spare). I then plan to use qtrees to implement the directory hierarchy seen by users. What I would like to present to users is something like this: filer: /home/ srb/ bwk/ ... /ics/ sales/ products/ support/ ... Where "ics" is our company name. I'm sure you see what I mean. So, for example, NFS users could mount either or both of "filer1:/home" and "filer1:/ics". Windows users would probably setup network connections to both "home" and "ics". I have created a qtree "/vol/vol0/home" and copied some users home directories into it, this seems to work well. But I am a bit puzzled how to implement the company hierarchy. I think that ideally "sales", "support", etc. would be separate qtrees - but it seems that qtrees can only exist at the top level, so this is not possible? Or, I could create "sales", "support", etc. as qtees directly at the top level but then users would have to mount each tree individually? Or, I could create a single "company" qtree with the various functional directories under it... but then I would not be able to take advantage of qtree features such as having separate quotas and dumps for these different "functions". Maybe I'm missing some key point here. Comments? -- Yours, Robert Watson.

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please add me to the toasters@mathworks.com list
by Erhard Raible 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

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toasters December 2002