toasters March 1999

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

138 participants
192 discussions

RE: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system?
by Mike Ball 02 Mar '99

02 Mar '99

Jeff, Do you know where you received this information? I would like to follow up on it and see if I might be able to obtain some additional details. Thank you, Mike Ball -----Original Message----- From: Mohler, Jeff [SMTP:jeff.mohler@wilcom.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:39 PM To: 'Mike Ball'; 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' Subject: RE: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system? From what I understand (sorry if this is already answered) IBM had NA hardware in the Lab, and we should expect a Java engine for it soon. Williams is crying for it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ball [SMTP:mball@rtp.opensystems.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:30 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system? > > Does anyone know if the F760 will work with the IBM ADSM backup system? > The ADSM system is used to backup over 200 NT servers over the network, > and we would like to use it > to backup the F760 filer running CIFS. Has anyone had any experience with > the IBM ADSM > backup system and any Netapp filer?

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Dell Deal
by Simmons, Charlie 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

In response to Philip Thomas's question below: Dell plans to resell some of NetApp's filers. The products will be offered under the Dell brand and therefore will have new bezels. They plan to use their own disk subsystem with the filers instead of NetApp's, but this doesn't change the function of the product at all. It's still "Network Attached." Dell will continue to offer their own server attached products as well. All of NetApp's functionality, including Snapshot, should be available on the filers from Dell. Dell's focus for the filer product line is the Windows market and thus the CIFS protocol. We'll have to wait until they formally announce their products to see if they also offer the NFS protocol as an option. Charlie Simmons VP Marketing Network Appliance -----Original Message----- From: Philip Thomas [mailto:thomas@act.sps.mot.com] Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 8:38 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: DELL<->NetApp deal? Can NetApp provide some more details on this DELL <->NetApp announcement? http://www.dell.com/corporate/media/newsreleases/98/9811/04.htm http://www.netapp.com/news/level3b/news_rel_981104.html (a) Are they going to take say, a 740 stick Dell label on it and sell? (b) Is this going to replace Dell's disk subsystem? In which case the NetApp/disks are no longer a "network attached" system. Am I right? (c) Will this NetApp disk system from Dell loose any of NetApp's features, namely '.snapshot'.? (d) I would assume Dell system; no speak NFS?? Philip Thomas Motorola - PEL, M/S M350 2200 W. Broadway M350 Mesa, AZ 85202 rxjs80(a)email.sps.mot.com (602) 655-3678 (602) 655-2285 (fax)

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RE: Net App and NetBackup
by Kelly Wyatt 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

We are using Netbackup on 5 filers with a StorageTek 9710 and a StorageTek 9730. After a few initial problems, we essentially have a "lights out" operation. ------- Kelly Wyatt, saskww(a)wnt.sas.com <mailto:saskww@wnt.sas.com> Integrated Solutions Consulting SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Drive / Cary, NC 27513 (919) 677-8000 X4279 (Voice) / (919) 677-4444 (FAX) http://www.sas.com <http://www.sas.com>

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RE: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system?
by Mohler, Jeff 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

From what I understand (sorry if this is already answered) IBM had NA hardware in the Lab, and we should expect a Java engine for it soon. Williams is crying for it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ball [SMTP:mball@rtp.opensystems.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:30 AM > To: 'toasters(a)mathworks.com' > Subject: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system? > > Does anyone know if the F760 will work with the IBM ADSM backup system? > The ADSM system is used to backup over 200 NT servers over the network, > and we would like to use it > to backup the F760 filer running CIFS. Has anyone had any experience with > the IBM ADSM > backup system and any Netapp filer?

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Re: nightly.1 busy: snapshot rollovers not happening
by Mark Muhlestein 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

The best way to do this is to create a special snapshot specifically for the backup, then delete it when the backup completes. This avoids the problem of the snapshot being changed out from under you. And this can all be automated with scripts. See Paul Benn's message for a pointer to a description of how to do this. Mark Muhlestein -- mmm(a)netapp.com -----Original Message----- From: Patrick.Day.B(a)bayer.com <Patrick.Day.B(a)bayer.com> To: - (052)toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com>; - (052)tmerrill(a)mathworks.com <tmerrill(a)mathworks.com> Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:48 AM Subject: Re: nightly.1 busy: snapshot rollovers not happening >I ran across this same problem when i shared the Nightly.0 for backup >purposes. When the nightly.0 rolls over to the Nightly.1, the CIFS share keeps >track and actually keeps the share mapped to nightly.1. (same thing next night >when it rolls over to nightly.3). I posted the problem a few weeks ago and the >only "solution" anyone could come up with was running an rsh command to stop >and recreate the share every time the backup runs. I opted to forget the >snapshot directory backup and go with a live backup of the C$\ share.

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Re: nightly.1 busy: snapshot rollovers not happening
by Mark Muhlestein 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

>I suspect it's a CIFS locking issue. So, is there a way to *force* the >automatic nightly snapshot to rollover? If not, I guess I'll just hand-job >this to do "manual automatic" snapshots at midnight and `snap rename` the >busy ones. <sigh> What's the use of having the automated capability if >it doesn't work when files are locked, he sarcastically muttered >under his breath... ;) No, it's probably because you have a CIFS share defined on the snapshot. >It's ain't being dumped, and never has been, so it's a CIFS share issue. Exactly. Doing 'cifs shares' should show you the share defined on the snapshot. (For NFS folks, a CIFS 'share' corresponds to an NFS 'export'.) You can do a 'cifs shares -delete sharename' to remove the share. >(`cifs sessions *` works. Wo-hoo! But, which one is holding that >particular snapshot busy?) Snapshots can't be held from expiring by open files. It's the fact that a share is defined on the snapshot that is the problem here. (Another good question for the FAQ I guess.) Mark Muhlestein -- mmm(a)netapp.com

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Re: nightly.1 busy: snapshot rollovers not happening
by Patrick.Day.B＠bayer.com 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

I ran across this same problem when i shared the Nightly.0 for backup purposes. When the nightly.0 rolls over to the Nightly.1, the CIFS share keeps track and actually keeps the share mapped to nightly.1. (same thing next night when it rolls over to nightly.3). I posted the problem a few weeks ago and the only "solution" anyone could come up with was running an rsh command to stop and recreate the share every time the backup runs. I opted to forget the snapshot directory backup and go with a live backup of the C$\ share. --Patrick Day owner-toasters(a)mathworks.com on 03/01/99 01:34:39 PM Please respond to "DDA.RFC-822=tmerrill(a)mathworks.com/P=Internet/A= /C=us" @ X400 To: "DDA.RFC-822=toasters(a)mathworks.com/P=Internet/A= /C=us"@X400 cc: "DDA.RFC-822=tmerrill(a)mathworks.com/P=Internet/A= /C=us"@X400 Subject: nightly.1 busy: snapshot rollovers not happening Folks, What does this "busy" mean? bat> snap list Volume vol0 working.................................................... %/used %/total date name ---------- ---------- ------------ -------- 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Mar 01 11:01 hourly.0 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Mar 01 10:01 hourly.1 2% ( 2%) 1% ( 1%) Mar 01 09:01 hourly.2 14% (13%) 11% ( 9%) Feb 27 00:01 nightly.0 22% (15%) 19% (12%) Feb 26 00:00 nightly.1 (busy) The nightly snapshot apparently didn't roll over, and hence a lot of testing suites that we run that depend on an image at mignight are giving us out of date results. The word "busy" is not mentioned anywhere in the ontap html docs (NetApp Release 5.2.1: Thu Dec 31 12:56:45 PST 1998). I've searched the archives for this list, and hit upon a similar thread just a few weeks ago (RE: Shared Snapshot directory), but the discussion went off on backups, not why the rollover wasn't happening. I suspect it's a CIFS locking issue. So, is there a way to *force* the automatic nightly snapshot to rollover? If not, I guess I'll just hand-job this to do "manual automatic" snapshots at midnight and `snap rename` the busy ones. <sigh> What's the use of having the automated capability if it doesn't work when files are locked, he sarcastically muttered under his breath... ;) And, if nightly.1 is busy, how come nightly.0 wasn't just replaced with one dated "Mar 01 00:01" instead? I realize the implications to possible Windows clients: programs dying, BSODs, etc., but that's okay in this environment. And, since these areas are read-only, there should be no data loss, yes? And, how TF do I get rid of this without rebooting the filer? bat> snap delete nightly.1 Snapshot in use by dump or a CIFS share. It's ain't being dumped, and never has been, so it's a CIFS share issue. (`cifs sessions *` works. Wo-hoo! But, which one is holding that particular snapshot busy?) (1-month newbie to NetApp filers, still learning the intricacies... Thanks for listening.) Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system?
by Benn, Paul 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

Here's a link: http://www.netapp.com/technology/level3/3052.html Please keep in mind, though, that a more current version of this white paper will be posted within the next few days. Once it's posted (official), there will be a link to it on the "technology/applications" page: http://www.netapp.com/technology/apps.html Regards, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Mark Muhlestein [mailto:mmm@netapp.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 9:12 AM To: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system? 8><----snip----snip----snip---- The filer's NT backup also includes the ability to fully back up UNIX metadata. Paul Benn at Netapp has a white paper that describes how to use NT backup utilities with the filer. Paul, can you post a pointer to the toasters list? I can't seem to locate it. 8><----snip----snip----snip----

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Re: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system?
by Mark Muhlestein 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

If ADSM can back up an NT member server via CIFS it should work. According to the ADSM FAQ I found: "4. Can ADSM backup remote machines? "ADSM does not have a specific remote backup function. Any remote NTFS file system access needs to appear to the ADSM client as a local NTFS. "Remote drives can be backed up." So it would probably work by mapping a drive from the filer. However, we haven't tested ADSM to my knowledge. The filer's NT backup also includes the ability to fully back up UNIX metadata. Paul Benn at Netapp has a white paper that describes how to use NT backup utilities with the filer. Paul, can you post a pointer to the toasters list? I can't seem to locate it. David's point about sparse files is correct: sparse files will be expanded when restored. For CIFS-created files that is not a problem since the clients can't create them (until Win2k). Mark -----Original Message----- From: David Drum <david(a)more.net> To: toasters(a)mathworks.com <toasters(a)mathworks.com> Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Will F760 work with IBM ADSM backup system? >Quoth Mike Ball: > >> Does anyone know if the F760 will work with the IBM ADSM backup system? > >There is no ADSM client for NetApps, so it would have to backup through >an NFS mount. > >> Has anyone had any experience with the IBM ADSM backup system >> and any Netapp filer? > >Please be aware that ADSM does not back up UNIX sparse files properly. >(Last time I checked anyway.)

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nightly.1 busy: snapshot rollovers not happening
by Todd C. Merrill 01 Mar '99

01 Mar '99

Folks, What does this "busy" mean? bat> snap list Volume vol0 working.................................................... %/used %/total date name ---------- ---------- ------------ -------- 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Mar 01 11:01 hourly.0 0% ( 0%) 0% ( 0%) Mar 01 10:01 hourly.1 2% ( 2%) 1% ( 1%) Mar 01 09:01 hourly.2 14% (13%) 11% ( 9%) Feb 27 00:01 nightly.0 22% (15%) 19% (12%) Feb 26 00:00 nightly.1 (busy) The nightly snapshot apparently didn't roll over, and hence a lot of testing suites that we run that depend on an image at mignight are giving us out of date results. The word "busy" is not mentioned anywhere in the ontap html docs (NetApp Release 5.2.1: Thu Dec 31 12:56:45 PST 1998). I've searched the archives for this list, and hit upon a similar thread just a few weeks ago (RE: Shared Snapshot directory), but the discussion went off on backups, not why the rollover wasn't happening. I suspect it's a CIFS locking issue. So, is there a way to *force* the automatic nightly snapshot to rollover? If not, I guess I'll just hand-job this to do "manual automatic" snapshots at midnight and `snap rename` the busy ones. <sigh> What's the use of having the automated capability if it doesn't work when files are locked, he sarcastically muttered under his breath... ;) And, if nightly.1 is busy, how come nightly.0 wasn't just replaced with one dated "Mar 01 00:01" instead? I realize the implications to possible Windows clients: programs dying, BSODs, etc., but that's okay in this environment. And, since these areas are read-only, there should be no data loss, yes? And, how TF do I get rid of this without rebooting the filer? bat> snap delete nightly.1 Snapshot in use by dump or a CIFS share. It's ain't being dumped, and never has been, so it's a CIFS share issue. (`cifs sessions *` works. Wo-hoo! But, which one is holding that particular snapshot busy?) (1-month newbie to NetApp filers, still learning the intricacies... Thanks for listening.) Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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toasters March 1999