toasters February 1999

toasters@lists.teaparty.net

106 participants
95 discussions

Re: Shared Snapshot directory
by Daniel Quinlan 24 Feb '99

24 Feb '99

Dave Hitz <hitz(a)netapp.com> writes: > It remains to be seen whether or not we're crazy, but perhaps > I can convince you that we're not *completely* crazy. > > I understand your skepticism, because running the entire backup data > flow through Java would probably not result in acceptable performance. > > Our idea is to use Java to execute the Legato daemons, and to direct > the data movement, but to provide new primitives in WAFL that allow > Java to say things like: "stream the data from this inode to this > network connection." I'm not sure what all WAFL primitives Jim ended up > adding to boost performance, but hopefully you get the idea. We're not > talking about the normal Java I/O library here. > > So Java orchestrates the backup, but the data flow itself goes directly > from WAFL to the network, using the same basic code path as NFS, CIFS > or HTTP. Dave, This seems like marketing-deal-driven engineering. A backup system that requires every client to run a specialized daemon (which must be ported every time you want to use a new type of client) seems really broken to me. We're quite happy here using dump, restore, and (nowadays) NDMP. I'm worried that these additions will not only cause us problems on our filers, but will encourage Legato to kill off BudTool. Most of all, I don't really understand the effort being applied to Java/Legato when other simple, useful, and important protocols like SNTP, SNMP, and rsh are unsupported or neglected. - Dan

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Too many open files...
by yrsuser 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

I have an F230 that is lightly used (relatively speaking) with NFS and CIFS enabled, and HTTPD - but no real web stuff on it yet. It's running 5.1R1 - and has been up for about 110 days. A few days ago, I started getting the following error, which shows up once a minute in the /etc/messages file: [httpd_log_main]: can't open /etc/log/httpd.log: too many open files I'm not seeing any other problems - my users are not having trouble getting to things in their home directories (primarly what we have on the F230). No disk errors, scrub errors, or other warnings in the logs. Is there a simple solution? I'd rather not have to reboot unless it becomes a real problem. I'm waiting for delivery of the current version of the OS, and will need to reboot to install that anyway. Cliff

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cifs shares -delete ... {-force ?}
by Todd C. Merrill 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

There doesn't appear to be a "force" option to the `cifs shares -delete` command, that is available via an rsh: # rsh bat-toaster cifs shares -delete R12 The share R12 cannot be deleted; users are currently using it. However, if I do this on the console, it prompts me: bat> cifs shares -delete R12 Users have open files on R12. Continuing the operation will force the files closed. Do you want to continue this operation? [no]: yes and the share can be forcibly deleted. I need to be able to do this programmatically via an rsh command; the man pages for cifs_shares show no such option (forcegroup doesn't seem appropriate). Help! toaster info: R12 /vol/vol0/devel/R12 everyone / Full Control Files are open with both Exec-denyW and Read-denyN. NetApp Release 5.2.1: Thu Dec 31 12:56:45 PST 1998 Until next time... Todd C. Merrill The Mathworks, Inc. 508-647-7792 24 Prime Park Way, Natick, MA 01760-1500 508-647-7012 FAX tmerrill(a)mathworks.com http://www.mathworks.com ---

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RE: Shared Snapshot directory
by Benn, Paul 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

I just wanted to clarify that if a UNIX backup server is used, it must use NDMP. If a multiprotocol Filer is backed up as an NFS volume, all of the NTFS permissions will be lost. If an NT backup package is used, the NTFS permissions and the UNIX permissions are retained. WAFL also keeps an archive bit for UNIX files so that an NT package can perform incremental backups. Keep an eye out for my new document titled "How to Integrate a Network Appliance Filer into the Windows NT Backup Model." It should be posted soon at: http://www.netapp.com/technology/apps.html Here's a snippet from one of the sections: 5.2 Using Windows NT to Automate Snapshot Backup The process described in Section 5.1 can be automated using features that are built into the Windows NT operating system. The Windows NT "at" scheduling service (briefly described in Section 2.4) can be used in combination with the "rsh" command to do this. Before it will work though, some minor preparation to the filer and to Windows NT will need to be performed. First, using a text editor, edit the "etc\hosts.equiv" file on the filer. Add a line as follows: #Use the host name or IP address. #If a host name is used, ensure #that it also appears in the /etc/hosts file. #Note the capital 'A' host_name Administrator Alternatively, this can be done using the FilerView GUI from a web browser. Next, from the Services option in the Windows NT Control Panel, configure the "Schedule" service to start automatically using the "Administrator" account. Configuring a Service to Start Using a Particular User Account Once the filer and Windows NT have been setup, schedule a batch process using the Windows NT "at" command. The following batch file, which uses NT Backup, is included as a reference: REM In this example, 'filer5' will be used as the name of the filer REM The qtree is called 'qtmixed,' which resides on a single REM volume filer. The default volume name is vol0. REM REM Delete the snapshot created by the previous run of this process rsh filer5 -l root snap delete vol0 openfiles REM REM Turn off oplocks, telling clients to release the file rsh filer5 -l root qtree oplocks qtmixed disable REM REM Create a snapshot directory called openfiles rsh filer5 -l root snap create vol0 openfiles REM REM Re-enable oplocks rsh filer5 -l root qtree oplocks qtmixed enable REM REM Map a drive letter to the filer's root share net use f: \\filer5\c$ REM REM Run the backup command - in this example NTBackup. REM Notice that '~snapshot' is used instead of '.snapshot' start /normal /b ntbackup backup f:\dir\~snapshot\ /hc:on /t normal REM End of file The above batch file (less the last few lines, launching a backup command) could also be used as a pre-job process with almost any Windows NT backup package. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Quinlan [mailto:quinlan@transmeta.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:39 PM To: Patrick.Day.B(a)bayer.com Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com Subject: Re: Shared Snapshot directory Patrick Day B <Patrick.Day.B(a)bayer.com> writes: > This is kinda long, so i appologize ahead of time... You're an NT shop, eh? I really strongly recommend using the Unix dump/restore facilities built into Data ONTAP -- it's *much* faster, it takes much of the complication out of the process, it preserves both NT and Unix attributes, and it works. Also use a Unix backup server (Solaris is probably best). For backup software, we have pretty good results with BudTool. Anyway, I think the way to do what you're trying to do is this: - create a share of / (actually, any directory, but the example here is /) - prior to backup, create a named snapshot ("mybackup.<num>") (this is what effectively happens when using dump) - backup from /.snapshot/mybackup.<num> or /.snapshot/mybackup.<num>/dir, - after backup, remove the named snapshot This way, you don't have to worry about the backups changing out from under you, and the CIFS locking of shares shouldn't affect you. However, I really want to warn you away from this... IMO, these are the basic mistakes made when backing up NetApps (in order of most bad to least bad): 1. backup up over a network filesystem (NFS or CIFS) instead of dump/restore 2. backup using NT backup host instead of Unix 3. backup across network instead of directly attached SCSI jukebox 4. backup from scheduled snapshots instead of manual ones (or ones created automatically by dump) 5. backup using rsh instead of NDMP 6. (for sites with more than a few hundred GB) backup using non-scalable home-grown scripts instead of "real" backup software 7. lesser mistakes: small blocksize, too large or small of a tree in one dump, backing up during the day, etc. I'm sure our backup guru would have a few items to add. :-) - Dan

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Re: Nitech XRP1000 filer
by sirbruce＠ix.netcom.com 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

On 02/22/99 18:41:25 you wrote: > > Has anyone used the XRP 1000? It's Nitech's "answer" to the >Netapp (the even mention Network Appliance specifically as the market >leader in network-attached storage, and that they compete with Netapp). > >http://www.nitech.com/online/Company/Storage/XRP_1000/body_xrp_1000.html I've never used one, but... I went to the URL. I laughed. I cried. I want to surf it again and again. The company provides virtually no background info on itself. No listing of who's at the helm. It looks like it's operating out of somebody's garage... of course, Netapp started the same way, but at least they had some sense to put together something professional. The white paper is told in a somewhat folksy style; clearly it was written by someone just rambling and without much experience. It contains several grammatical and spelling errors. The presentation still refers to Network Appliance, Inc. as Network Appliance Corporation, and even uses the old abbreviation NAC. The docs also from time to time mention a few filer details that this product doesn't suffer from, like single telnet sessions. All this leads me to believe that this is some guy who was once familiar with them and who decided he could compete, without really understanding the underlying software technologies. The product may be good, but I have little faith in the company. Sure, even Netapp was once a nobody, but they were a lot more professional and had a lot more going for them. Bruce

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 23 Feb '99

23 Feb '99

Cisco routers do intake/output monitoring on the RSP cards. *grin* > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham C. Knight [SMTP:grahamk@ast.lmco.com] > Sent: Monday, February 22, 1999 11:07 AM > To: Mohler, Jeff > Cc: toasters(a)mathworks.com > Subject: Re: Fiber Channel filer failures > > Mohler, Jeff wrote: > > > > For all concerned..I have all of my cabinets on temp SNMP > tracking, > > and the F760 (two heads 9 shelves) runs about 85deg at 6" below the top > of > > the cabinet. > > Would it be a real hassle to explain how this monitoring is done? > > Thx, > Graham

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

> but i turned NIS off in > a fit of frustration a few weeks ago... --- Ive seen issues where if my corporate DNS server goes funky, the NA will just refuse to work with DNS at all. Even after the corporate DNS servers are back up and running well, nothing but a reboot will get the NA to resolve hostnames. Ive just entered all hosts..into the hosts file to get around this. I can turn CIFS on and off, it would be nice to be able to kick BIND in the ass too without a reboot.

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

> Last week we had a fiber channel F760 completely crash and burn. Right > now > the system is in a state where it will serve data for 10 or 15 minutes > and then > it reports inconsistent parity errors and crashes. We will be sending it > to > Netapp for failure analysis. > Graham --- Im having a lot of the same errors. I have used two different heads and get the same errors. After enough nasty deaths, I had to boot from floppy and download the OS again because what was on the first drive was trash. We've swapped system boards, and cables. The system has been stable since doing two things. I swapped out the OEM RAM with the replacement RAM I was proactively sent that Im told could cause FC problems, and I upgraded OS to 5.1.2.R3P1 (I belive it was). I still got errors after upgrading the OS, but since replacing the RAM the system has been rocl solid (crosses toes). But since a majority of my errors were from the first shelf, I have a replacement shelf to install either the next time the system crashes, or late this week before my RMA window closes. I might add that Benjamin and Dave Z. were -extremely- helpful with this problem, Ben had to drop off for some other problems, and Dave was able to pick this up and run fast with it. Kudos!

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

For all concerned..I have all of my cabinets on temp SNMP tracking, and the F760 (two heads 9 shelves) runs about 85deg at 6" below the top of the cabinet. I should be getting my ventilated back-doors this week to help bring that down. NO alarms so far.

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RE: Fiber Channel filer failures
by Mohler, Jeff 22 Feb '99

22 Feb '99

Ok..now I feel stupid for three small posts in a row. NA Support had me make sure, that I had a minimum of 3A available on my power to the shelves, they have a cheat sheet on resolving FC errors, and low/brown power is on the list. Ask your helpdesk rep for more information.

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toasters February 1999