On 2022-11-28 17:22, Douglas Siggins wrote:

Can someone please clarify this for me? My understanding is that cloud
backup is just scheduling the snap diff v3 to object storage.  You could get
similar functionality by any vendor that netapp approves, of which I believe
there are 4 others?

First of all: nothing of what I write below has anything to do with "S3 
Bucket mirror" from a Primary ONTAP system which does S3 storage.

CBS (Cloud Backup Service) is something that originally runs in-Cloud only. 
That's where it was always meant to live. But now it can also run 
"off-Cloud" (= on-prem), in something called NetApp Cloud Manager Dark Site 
Edition. Which you'd then need to install in your own environment first, I 
think it's a VM (ESXi) image for example.
CBS an orchestrator which uses SnapDiff v3 and leverage SnapMirror Cloud to 
take "snapshots" (block diffs just like SnapMirror/-Vault does) and puts it 
in an S3 Bucket. For on-prem S3 systems, only StorageGRID and ONTAP are 
approved today. Not minIO or anything else.

There are other vendors yes, tech partners, which have paid NetApp to use 
SnapDiff v3 and SnapMirror Cloud in the same fashion CBS does. That product, 
e.g. Cleondris Appliance or Rubrik Foundation Suite, then does all the 
orchestration and configuration of your backups, the work that SnapVault 
does inside ONTAP traditionally.  That product will have to keep track of 
all the files and blocks, what belongs where: all the backup metadata. All 
that which a SnapVault target system's ONTAP (WAFL) will keep track of 
traditionally.

To use a 3rd party product in that list, you need to purchase something 
called HCB (Hybrid Cloud Bundle) from NetApp. To enable the SM Cloud + 
SnapDiff v3 from the ONTAP side so to speak. You have to pay for it per TiB 
(Tebibyte) "physical used data" which you have backed up to your S3 target 
system. The definition of this is as opposed to "logical used data" which 
CBS uses. I won't go into the distinction here because I do not want to 
cause even more confusion. All this *is* confusing, indeed. Talk to your 
account team and force them to penetrate this and explain it to you properly!

Douglas Siggins wrote:

I tried getting licenses to try this on premise to ontap s3 and was
immediately turned away. It's super unclear how netapp intends to position
this cloud. Has anyone been able to try the inbuilt backup to an ontap or
grid target?

Hm. Interesting. You were "turned away"...? By your account team at NetApp?
I agree that things are rather unclear around this.
If you wish to use CBS on-prem, then clearly as things have progressed these 
days NetApp compete directly with their tech partners products: Rubrik, 
Cleondris, ProLion, CommVault (those which have licensed SnapDiff v3).
The price models are in constant flux and have been for at least 12 months. 
It's confusing and can only get better for us who have huge on-prem 
environments and want to leverage at least some of the new in-Cloud 
cleverness NetApp has come up with over the past 24 months.

/M

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: SV: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 14:03:38 +0000
From: Heino Walther <hw@beardmann.dk>
To: Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com>, "toasters@teaparty.net"
<toasters@teaparty.net>

Hi Florian

The short answer is no.

What the cloud-backup as you call it, does, it to move older datablocks to 
an S3 target or it can move blocks in your snapshots.

So the information of where the blocks are stored is still in the original 
volume, and you need to back that information up either by SnapMirror/Vault 
or an NDMP dump.

Also, if you plan using anything else than another ONTAP or StorageGRID, you 
will need to buy license

If you do not have another NetApp system to SnapMirror to, I would look into 
NDMP backup as an option  it is supported by most backup products like 
BackupExec etc

/Heino

*Fra: *Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com>
*Dato: *mandag, 28. november 2022 kl. 14.45
*Til: *toasters@teaparty.net <toasters@teaparty.net>
*Emne: *NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

Hi there,

I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can 
backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage.

As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot 
diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid nodes.

But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO?

Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what ever 
vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup?

NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not 
for backup.

If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume 
snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block based and not file 
based backup.

Best regards
Florian

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