Hi Scott:
- Licensing -
Correct me if I’m wrong but no end user software license
is transferable under NA T&C’s. Transferable licenses you discussed
are/were associated with operating lease returns under which NA granted
the lessor the right to retain and transfer the
license once after the equipment was returned or bought by the
lessee. The lease
companies negotiated this to protect the residual values otherwise it had
a scrap or spare parts value. I
would agree that everything can be negotiated, but no enduser
should ever assume their software licenses are transferable. You can negotiate a price,
but NA will never give away the crown jewels. Remember the “Hobbyist
License discussion” that quietly went away….
- Keeping equipment under maintenance – It only make sense to
keep equipment (that you intend to sell) under maintenance if NA is going
to hit the buyers with fees far in excess of the equipments value and it
would in turn void your sales opportunity. It is very hard for any vendor to
declare a piece of equipment not eligible for maintenance, with or without
certification, when it is currently under one of
their contracts. There “was”
a NA web page that generally spelled out the certification process. Email NA and ask them is the easiest
way. NA
has very good records of when equipment goes on and off of maintenance. They can use this to ascertain the
overall vintage, service records, financial costs, etc..
associated with serial numbers. It only makes good business sense
for NA to avoid things like cooked or known flakey
gear. Yes, I agree that buying
spares off the used market makes great sense for anyone who wants plug and
play on-site sparing (new or old gear) and is willing to keep and reasonable
supply of throw away spares. Sending
these spares in for repair under another systems contract will generate a
lot of problems and bills from NetApp.
- Keeping equipment (old or new) under maintenance, software and
hardware, is no more than an insurance policy against problems that can’t
be quickly fixed by swapping or going back to previous rev’s of the software. I.e. You have discovered a new bug and
need a fix because your business is being interrupted and your last SW or
HW upgrade was one way. Given
NA overall reliability, dependability and MTTR these cases are very rare,
but they can and do happen. Keeping
software under contract makes very good business sense. You get all the maintenance updates,
upgrades, knowledge base, intellectual resources, etc… If you have a problem and are out
of “last supported Rev” you have no support other than static maintenance
releases on the old versions of software that you may have not installed. ( On-line
support will be helpful, but their focus is on current supported releases
of the products.) Hardware firmware fixes also come
with these services.
These can be used to keep your spare parts in sync.
I don’t think we are really in disagreement.
Hunter
Hunter M. Wylie
21193 French Prairie Rd
Suite 100
St. Paul, Oregon
97137-9722
Bus: 866-367-8900
FAX: 503-633-8901
Cell: 503-880-1947
http://www.itmls.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
[mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com] On
Behalf Of Scott Fischmann
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:19
AM
To: Hunter Wylie
Cc: scott@unioncomputer.com; 'John
Enger'; 'Maren S. Leizaola'; toasters@mathworks.com
Subject: RE: Migrating from NetApp
to EMC Celera
Hi, Hunter:
Regarding:
1) NetApp / EMC licensing:
As with pricing, transferable licenses can be and have been negotiated.
We have bought and sold dozens of used NetApp filers with transferable
licensing. Prospective buyers should never assume that licensing terms
can't be negotiated!
2) NetApp maintenance /
recertification: In most cases, I don't think it makes sense
to keep NetApp gear under maintenance solely because of concerns over
recertification charges. NetApp's 4-hour minimum charge to recertify used
hardware in the field is reasonable, and I have never seen them take unfair
advantage by going beyond the 4-hour minimum. Also, I have often seen
them waive the charge in order to persuade their customers to place used gear
under NetApp contract. Next, why even place older NetApp hardware (and
software, for that matter) on contract with NetApp? Because of the
availability of cheap and plentiful systems and parts, there are significantly
cheaper -- and oftentimes better -- 3rd party and/or self-maintenance
options. Finally, a decision to forgo NetApp hardware/software support
will not affect a filer's license status.
--
Scott Fischmann
Union Computer Exchange,
Inc.
6233 Idylwood Lane
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55436
phone: (952) 935-7282 | fax: (952) 935-5056
email: scott@unioncomputer.com
"Helping our
customers make each dollar go further - since 1991!"
Hunter Wylie wrote on 1/25/2004, 9:57 PM:
> Subject: RE: Migrating from NetApp to EMC Celera
> Date: 1/25/2004, 9:57 PM
> From: Hunter Wylie <hwylie@stpaultel.com>
> To: 'John Enger' <john@johnenger.com>,
"'Maren S. Leizaola'"
> <leizaola@hk.com>
> cc: toasters@mathworks.com
> Maren,
> I beg to differ with Mr. Enger's analysis that EMC's solution as
> economically safe. EMC's software is also non-transferable just like
> NetApp. EMC charges a tremendous amount of money for software too.
Both
> companies value their products on their propriety software and not the
> commodity hardware in sits on. This results in the same after market
> value for the hardware - scrap value or spare parts value.
>
> If you do sell your NetApp gear, keep your gear on maintenance until the
> buyer accepts the gear on their site. This process should(?) avoid a
> costly NetApp recertification. I would also include NetApp
professional
> services for de-installing the gear and re-installing as part of the
> sales price to the buyer. Combined with the maintenance contract
this
> should avoid any recertification charges. Consider your systems as a
> big spare parts kits if you have to dispose of it.
>
> NetApp gear has significant trade-in value on other NetApp gear from
> NetApp. EMC gear also has trade-in value on NetApp solutions.
>
> My first hand experience with these two solutions was at a very large
> EMC customer in the telecommunications industry. NetApp was
evaluated
> against installed EMC Celerra's and EMC Symetrix's.
>
> Both solutions were evaluated in the following categories: - NetApp
vs
> EMC
> * Time to install and get the tests running - 2 days vs 45
> * Ease of installation - 5 hours vs 14 days
> * Ongoing support time required to keep the systems in operation - .05
> FTE vs .33 FTE
> * Performance running Oracle, - .5 hrs versus 1 hour
> * Equipment costs, - roughly equivalent after heavy discounts
> * Direct labor costs, - ~6X given FTE load
> * Uptime over a 8 month test period, 100% vs about .5 crashes per week
> * Availability - 99.99+ vs 97%
>
> All of this resulted in EMC loosing all future business in two major new
> projects.
>
> Hunter
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com
[mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]
> On Behalf Of John Enger
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 3:16 AM
> To: Maren S. Leizaola
> Cc: toasters@mathworks.com
> Subject: Re: Migrating from NetApp to EMC Celera
>
> At 17:54 25.01.2004 +0800, you wrote:
>
>
> >So that you understand where I am coming from, I am 2nd hand
> >equipment dealer who has paid and tried to get things work out with
> >distributors and had no help. I've tried to work with NetApps
> >distritibutors to stop an account not to migrate to EMC....
>
>
> I absolutely agree with your opinion on many of these issues.
> The lisencing policies that Network Appliances use are totally
> horrid. My former employee chose EMC over netapp just for this
> cause. Once installed the value of the equipment is none, because
> it has no aftermarket whatsoever.
>
> It's a crying shame, because NetApp is so simple and functional,
> and hosts so much power.
>
> There was a discussion on this a while back, but I think that the
> Network Appliances administration are horrified that changing their
> lisencing policies will result in massive pritating of their software.
>
> So they choose to serve the few who are willing to pay the horrid
> prices of new licenced equipment, and forget about the masses who
> chose EMC and other solutions for economical safety, and the aftermaket.
>
> I think this is a pretty narrowminded way of thinking. Think of all the
> 2.hand
> equipment, and the ability for this to create a second revenue. I've
> seen
> netapps sell off ebay for just a couple of hundred bucks. I think they
> will
> be running pirated Data ontap versions. Just what Network Appliances
> seem to fear the most. The software are pirated in a big way, both by
> netadmins for private use and by small companies, because the
> alternative
> of getting a legal version is finacially synonymous with buying a new
> storagesystem.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your time
>
>
> J.
>
>