Hi, Hunter:

Regarding:

1)  NetApp / EMC licensing:  As with pricing, transferable licenses can be and have been negotiated.  We have bought and sold dozens of used NetApp filers with transferable licensing.  Prospective buyers should never assume that licensing terms can't be negotiated!

2)  NetApp maintenance / recertification:  In most cases, I don't think it makes sense to keep NetApp gear under maintenance solely because of concerns over recertification charges.  NetApp's 4-hour minimum charge to recertify used hardware in the field is reasonable, and I have never seen them take unfair advantage by going beyond the 4-hour minimum.  Also, I have often seen them waive the charge in order to persuade their customers to place used gear under NetApp contract.  Next, why even place older NetApp hardware (and software, for that matter) on contract with NetApp?  Because of the availability of cheap and plentiful systems and parts, there are significantly cheaper -- and oftentimes better -- 3rd party and/or self-maintenance options.  Finally, a decision to forgo NetApp hardware/software support will not affect a filer's license status.
--
Scott Fischmann
Union Computer Exchange, Inc.
6233 Idylwood Lane
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55436
phone: (952) 935-7282 | fax: (952) 935-5056
email: scott@unioncomputer.com

"Helping our customers make each dollar go further - since 1991!"





Hunter Wylie wrote on 1/25/2004, 9:57 PM:

> Subject: RE: Migrating from NetApp to EMC Celera
> Date: 1/25/2004, 9:57 PM
> From: Hunter Wylie <hwylie@stpaultel.com>
> To: 'John Enger' <john@johnenger.com>, "'Maren S. Leizaola'"
> <leizaola@hk.com>
> cc: toasters@mathworks.com
> Maren,
> I beg to differ with Mr. Enger's analysis that EMC's solution as
> economically safe.  EMC's software is also non-transferable just like
> NetApp.  EMC charges a tremendous amount of money for software too. Both
> companies value their products on their propriety software and not the
> commodity hardware in sits on.  This results in the same after market
> value for the hardware - scrap value or spare parts value.
>
> If you do sell your NetApp gear, keep your gear on maintenance until the
> buyer accepts the gear on their site.  This process should(?) avoid a
> costly NetApp recertification.  I would also include NetApp professional
> services for de-installing the gear and re-installing as part of the
> sales price to the buyer.  Combined with the maintenance contract this
> should avoid any recertification charges.  Consider your systems as a
> big spare parts kits if you have to dispose of it.
>
> NetApp gear has significant trade-in value on other NetApp gear from
> NetApp.  EMC gear also has trade-in value on NetApp solutions.
>
> My first hand experience with these two solutions was at a very large
> EMC customer in the telecommunications industry.  NetApp was evaluated
> against installed EMC Celerra's and EMC Symetrix's.
>
> Both solutions were evaluated in the following categories: -  NetApp vs
> EMC
> * Time to install and get the tests running  - 2 days vs 45
> * Ease of installation  - 5 hours vs 14 days
> * Ongoing support time required to keep the systems in operation - .05
> FTE vs  .33 FTE
> * Performance running Oracle,   - .5 hrs versus 1 hour
> * Equipment costs, - roughly equivalent after heavy discounts
> * Direct labor costs, - ~6X given FTE load
> * Uptime over a 8 month test period, 100% vs about .5 crashes per week
> * Availability - 99.99+  vs 97%
>
> All of this resulted in EMC loosing all future business in two major new
> projects.
>
> Hunter
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-toasters@mathworks.com [mailto:owner-toasters@mathworks.com]
> On Behalf Of John Enger
> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 3:16 AM
> To: Maren S. Leizaola
> Cc: toasters@mathworks.com
> Subject: Re: Migrating from NetApp to EMC Celera
>
> At 17:54 25.01.2004 +0800, you wrote:
>
>
> >So that you understand where I am coming from, I am 2nd hand
> >equipment dealer who has paid and tried to get things work out with
> >distributors and had no help. I've tried to work with NetApps
> >distritibutors to stop an account not to migrate to EMC....
>
>
> I absolutely agree with your opinion on many of these issues.
> The lisencing policies that Network Appliances use are totally
> horrid. My former employee chose EMC over netapp just for this
> cause. Once installed the value of the equipment is none, because
> it has no aftermarket whatsoever.
>
> It's a crying shame, because NetApp is so simple and functional,
> and hosts so much power.
>
> There was a discussion on this a while back, but I think that the
> Network Appliances administration are horrified that changing their
> lisencing policies will result in massive pritating of their software.
>
> So they choose to serve the few who are willing to pay the horrid
> prices of new licenced equipment, and forget about the masses who
> chose EMC and other solutions for economical safety, and the aftermaket.
>
> I think this is a pretty narrowminded way of thinking. Think of all the
> 2.hand
> equipment, and the ability for this to create a second revenue. I've
> seen
> netapps sell off ebay for just a couple of hundred bucks. I think they
> will
> be running pirated Data ontap versions. Just what Network Appliances
> seem to fear the most. The software are pirated in a big way, both by
> netadmins for private use and by small companies, because the
> alternative
> of getting a legal version is finacially synonymous with buying a new
> storagesystem.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your time
>
>
> J.
>
>